99 replies to this topic

[Diesel]

The truth is the idea of moving Smoove to the 4 is for only one reason...  To justify us picking Marvin.

Sorry my Marvin Loving friends.. but we dropped the ball.

Instead of grabbing the best and needed player available.. we duplicated what we already had.  I fear we will do the same this draft unless somebody trades the pick.. which I would love to see happen and us get back JO.

Back to the truth.

There is nothing Sf about JSmoove right now.
and you guys believing that Just because you move JSmoove to PF he will automatically become a Sf is laughable.

It's as funny as saying that JT can become a pass first PG.


These positions were crafted not only with mentality and sizes but also with various skills.  JSmoove has shown NO PF SKILLS nor do I think he has the mindset of a PF.  He is about as much a PF as big dog.

Smoove hangs out on the perimeter.  He likes the midrange shot.  It's more than his coaching...  I've as many post moves in Hawks games as Smoove.  


When we first drafted Smoove.. do you remember what we called him??

"The guilty pleasure".

We called him that because he had absolutely no skills except dunking the ball.   Well, he has added the easiest skills he could to his game..

Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs.   You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...



Just swallow hard and except these truths.

BK duplicated a position.
BK didn't think that Smoove could raise his skill level.
BK missed out on probably the best PG in the last 20 years... in a time when we needed a PG.

Ruining Smoove's development by making him play a position that he cannot will not validate Marvin and it definitely does not make us a better franchise.



To me, the best plan of action is to get a legitimate PF and a PG in here... with some C help...

If we don't take advantage of the pieces we have in front of us and come out with a real PF... then we need to fire BK...

[exodus]

to be reposted daily ad infinitum.

[Weez]

you do know that Amare's hurt right?

just making sure you know who is the most 'physically imposing PF in the game'...

Howard is not in the top 3 in that particular short list of players...

[BusBoyIsBack]

Quote:

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The truth is the idea of moving Smoove to the 4 is for only one reason...  To justify us picking Marvin.

Sorry my Marvin Loving friends.. but we dropped the ball.

Instead of grabbing the best and needed player available.. we duplicated what we already had.  I fear we will do the same this draft unless somebody trades the pick.. which I would love to see happen and us get back JO.

Back to the truth.

There is nothing Sf about JSmoove right now.
and you guys believing that Just because you move JSmoove to PF he will automatically become a Sf is laughable.

It's as funny as saying that JT can become a pass first PG.


These positions were crafted not only with mentality and sizes but also with various skills.  JSmoove has shown NO PF SKILLS nor do I think he has the mindset of a PF.  He is about as much a PF as big dog.

Smoove hangs out on the perimeter.  He likes the midrange shot.  It's more than his coaching...  I've as many post moves in Hawks games as Smoove.  


When we first drafted Smoove.. do you remember what we called him??

"The guilty pleasure".

We called him that because he had absolutely no skills except dunking the ball.   Well, he has added the easiest skills he could to his game..

Hitting the open shot and shooting the three.

Those are easy.

The hard skills actually have to do with the footwork of a post player.

How to lean.

There are many guys that go to big man camps and are legitimate big men and they don't learn the skills for 3-4 yrs.   You guys think that Smoove will learn them in the offseason...



Just swallow hard and except these truths.

BK duplicated a position.
BK didn't think that Smoove could raise his skill level.
BK missed out on probably the best PG in the last 20 years... in a time when we needed a PG.

Ruining Smoove's development by making him play a position that he cannot will not validate Marvin and it definitely does not make us a better franchise.



To me, the best plan of action is to get a legitimate PF and a PG in here... with some C help...

If we don't take advantage of the pieces we have in front of us and come out with a real PF... then we need to fire BK...

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I agree we need to admit we made a mistake. Don't do the Detroit Lions w/ Joey Harrington and stay in denial for years.

We need to admit we screwed up and had a waste of a draft and move forward.  We are still only 2 players away from being a very talented team.  We need a big man and a PG.  

We will get that big man in the draft without a doubt in Tyrus Thomas, Bargnani, or Aldridge unless the lottery completely screws us and all are gone.

[Buzzard]

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Like I said yesterday, Smoove does nothing similar to most good PFs.  

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He hits the boards, throws a hard foul when needed, blocks shots, and dunks....what game do you watch?

Come on Diesel, if a PF does not hit the boards, throw a hard foul when needed, block shots, and slam the ball every now and then, exactly what do you think they do? Please explain this incredulous statement to me.

And please don't tell me that all PF's that shoot a three and like to shoot a three are automatically disqualified from being a "good" PF. Please don't go there......

[CBAreject]

You are so annoying.  Always yelling at people.  I still remember your saying "Mark my word.  We're gonna get Penny."

You said that over and over and over.  Even when someone corrected you and told you it was "Mark my words," you insisted on repeating yourself.


Look, Cletus.  I didn't say that Smoove was a good PF now.  I said I think there's a good possibility he could defend the position in a couple of years.  I also said that the fact that he gets outmuscled by a hulking PF now doesn't mean that he won't ever be able to adequately defend the position.

You leave that part out of your whiney soap-box.  I NEVER SAID SMITH IS A GOOD PF RIGHT NOW.  I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BE.  I ONLY SAID THAT HE MIGHT BE IN THE FUTURE.

To say that Smith will never play PF based on 1 stinking game in which he got outplayed by a hulk at the position is QUITE AUDACIOUS.  I think it's much more reasonable to say that we can't say with certainty whether Smoove will play PF or not.  We must admit he has potential, but we have some evidence that he is currently a bad defender.

Nah, just respond with some more screaming.



P.S.
10:1 you don't even know what "audacious means".  100:1 you will just read over it and not even look it up.

[CBAreject]

Oh....because being "physically imposing" is something that can be measured quantitatively?

-so you're "just making sure I know" who is really tops in a qualitative category?  All that's certain is that you cannot be certain, yourself.

-and who decides how long the list is?  If we're ranking PF's in order of "imposing-ness" , the list may as well have a place for every last one of them.  Having more at the bottom wouldn't change who ranked at the top.  If you're arguing that the list of physically imposing powerforwards is short (since most are not very imposing), then it's silly altogether.  Nearly any NBA player is physically imposing by most opinions.


....just making sure you know that your post adds nothing to the discussion.  Whether I am right or wrong about Howard being the most imposing doesn't change the fact that he is a beast and difficult to defend and box out.  I might as well reply to you and say "You do know that it's spelled 'WHEEZE', right?"

[Diesel]

Unfortunately Buzzard.

Smoove has no Low post offense and his defense against true PFs is not so good.

If the game devolves into a halfcourt game what can Smoove do?  Line up on the outside like a Sf right?

Smoove is not a 4 because he doesn't have the skillset of a 4.

All the things that you mentioned are the skills set of a Sf.

Hits the board = Sf

Throws a hard foul... I don't know how this qualifies for anything.  Mark Jackson used to throw hard fouls.

Block Shots... With his athleticism coming from the backside, Smoove is more in the mold of G Wallace and SMarion than he is in the mold of Tim Duncan and Elton Brand.

Slam the Ball every now and then....  Uhm.. This is where you want to hang your hat for Smoove being a PF.  Because he slams every now and then????  I guess Chillz is a PF too?



Every qualification that you have given applies to Chillz... So I guess Chillz can be a PF too?

[Diesel]

Don the truth is that these people who say that JSmoove is a PF wants Justification for Marvin.


If Marvin got hurt or better yet, if Marvin just quit and were not going to play any more and the choice was either to sign a Loul Deng or Tyson Chandler....

guess what these same people who want to make Smoove a PF would say..

"Oh, Smoove plays better at the Sf position, let's get Chandler."...


The choice to put Smoove at Sf for most has nothing to do with Smoove because if it did, they would consider his skill set.

[SmooveTheFuture]

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Don the truth is that these people who say that JSmoove is a PF wants Justification for Marvin.


If Marvin got hurt or better yet, if Marvin just quit and were not going to play any more and the choice was either to sign a Loul Deng or Tyson Chandler....

guess what these same people who want to make Smoove a PF would say..

"Oh, Smoove plays better at the Sf position, let's get Chandler."...



The choice to put Smoove at Sf for most has nothing to do with Smoove because if it did, they would consider his skill set.

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I agree totally Smoove coming into the League was suppose to be a SF. Alot of people want to see Smith play a position which really has zero exp. playing because we have Marvin Williams here. Like I have said before as has Diesel we drafted Marvin Williams and he is the same player Josh Smith is. It is scary to think how good this team would have been not only this year but for the  next 10 years with Chris Paul or even Raymond Felton coulda had the best young backcourt instead we are stuck with a big mess. We made a huge mistake in taking this guy we missed out on some of the best pgs in the last 10 years. If a trade presents it self where we could move one of these SF's for a big time PF or C we have to do it. Bottom line is Smoove is a SF and Marvin is SF none of them have the mindset or skills offensively to play the PF position it takes years and years to master low post moves your not just gonna put someone down there and expect them to be Bill Walton overnight. So one of these guys is going to have to go so the other one flurishes at the SF spot because they will be getting a majority of the minutes. Say we keep Smith here Marvin the 2nd overall pick is not gonna be content playing in his shadow and getting 20 mins a game frankly we cant afford to have the 2nd pick playing a back up role. Face the facts we made a huge mistake we need to move on trade one of these guys and Keep moving forward because when its all said and done we have 2 SFs that are 19/20 both of them cant be stars on this team playing the same position.

[Buzzard]

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Every qualification that you have given applies to Chillz... So I guess Chillz can be a PF too?

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Unless I am missing something, Chillz does not block almost three shots a game. And my point is you said Smoove has no skills that a good pf has.

My point is he has four solid PF skills plus he shoots a three pretty well which gives him one better than most.

No aurgument, he needs to work on post up moves and D, but to say he has "no" Pf skills at all is ludicrous and was totally short sided on your part.

[Buzzard]

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Don the truth is that these people who say that JSmoove is a PF wants Justification for Marvin.

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You want justification or should I say validation? Smoove at the 4 has been a thought for most open minded (read people with vision) people ever since we drafted 3 forwards two years ago.

This vision had nothing to do with Marvin three years ago and it has nothing to do with limiting Smoove either. It had everything to do his versatile skill set and the fact he has not stopped growing since day one.

Most us with any vision at all, assumed if Chillz did not make it as a 2, we could move him to the 3 and Smoove to the 4. Also, I remember Smoove not having a good jumper either in his 1st year ( bad shooting % this year as well) which made more sense to possibly move him to the four.

No Diesel, the only reason you want to blame this logic on Marvin and not Chillz is the same old story....just Marvin hate, pure and simple. Guarantee you; go back two years before Marvin and you will find same type of post only differences will be Chillz at the 3 and Smoove at the 4 instead of Marvin at the 3 and Smoove at the 4.

Of course there will also be this big difference, you would be sharing the opinion that Chillz and Smoove may work at the 3 and 4 instead of hating on Chillz all season long.

You are not a true fan Diesel, you are a hater of anything that does not fit into your narrow minded skull. It’s that plain and simple.

[clrumph]

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I agree totally Smoove coming into the League was suppose to be a SF. Alot of people want to see Smith play a position which really has zero exp. playing because we have Marvin Williams here. Like I have said before as has Diesel we drafted Marvin Williams and he is the same player Josh Smith is. It is scary to think how good this team would have been not only this year but for the next 10 years with Chris Paul or even Raymond Felton coulda had the best young backcourt instead we are stuck with a big mess. We made a huge mistake in taking this guy we missed out on some of the best pgs in the last 10 years. If a trade presents it self where we could move one of these SF's for a big time PF or C we have to do it. Bottom line is Smoove is a SF and Marvin is SF none of them have the mindset or skills offensively to play the PF position it takes years and years to master low post moves your not just gonna put someone down there and expect them to be Bill Walton overnight. So one of these guys is going to have to go so the other one flurishes at the SF spot because they will be getting a majority of the minutes. Say we keep Smith here Marvin the 2nd overall pick is not gonna be content playing in his shadow and getting 20 mins a game frankly we cant afford to have the 2nd pick playing a back up role. Face the facts we made a huge mistake we need to move on trade one of these guys and Keep moving forward because when its all said and done we have 2 SFs that are 19/20 both of them cant be stars on this team playing the same position.  

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My thoughts exactly! Of course you can tell by my name that I want Marvin to be traded and not Josh.

If either Portland or Charlotte are picking ahead of us and are on the clock and Aldridge is still on the board we need to trade Marvin to one of those teams in exchange for Aldridge.

Think about it, both Portland and Charlotte need SF's because they already have their PF's, and both teams wanted to trade up with us to grab Marvin last year. Hopefully his play this year hasn't turned them off and they would still be interested in trading their pick for him. Then we could grab Marcus Williams with our own pick and have this roster next year (assuming Al is gone of course):

PG: Marcus Williams/Lue/Grundy
SG: JJ/Chillz/D Smith
SF: Smoove/Chillz
PF: Aldridge/Batista
C: Pachulia/Edwards

If this happens then it'll somewhat make up for passing on Paul last year but not completely. That being said at least we didn't draft Bogut!  /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Diesel]

Sorry my friend but those are not JUST Pf skills.


Hell, Smoove can dribble a basketball does that make him a PG.

Smoove has good range on his shot now.. does that make him a SG??

The answer is no.

When looking at the PF position.  

Does he have a Post game??  The answer to this is NO.  He doesn't have any experience on being a post player.

Al has been in the league several years and over the years he has picked up some post play... That's the only reason that Al plays Pf.... Because by nature, Al is a SF too.  Proof was the other night...  Al kept blowing by Battie when he put the ball on the floor.

Smoove doesn't have any post up moves..  

That's because he is not a PF.

The effect that it will have is that when we go out with all swingmen, smartly coached teams will break the game down to a halfcourt game and they will force us to win it from outside.

That's part of our problem now.  We win based on our ability to outshoot the other team.  We rarely go to the foul line.  We don't create enough easy opportunities to score.   The effect is that when we're not hitting a good percentage from outside... we lose.

That won't change until we get an inside man.

[chillzatl]

If you honestly think he won't or should not add post skills to his game, you're out of your mind. A guy with his build and his skillset would be viewed as a development failure if he does not add post skills to his game (just as Al has done). He doesn't have to be a full time post player to give his team all the benefits of both positions (just as Al does). The same holds true for Marvin.