227 replies to this topic

[jdu00743]

And please put this into the equation while doing it...No one has refuted this point made by Exodus yet...

Horford's standing reach is only 8'11...that would be at least 2 inches shorter than any other center in the league.

I am more worried about him on defense, than him going up against C's on offense.

Ok, now enlighten me.

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[ThunderHawks]

He will convince you himself. No matter what I or anyone else say. Many of you already got it in your mind he can't play Center. Why bother trying to explain it?

[jdu00743]

And having seen him play.

I"m no expert on him, but doesn't having a 2 inch shorter standing reach than the NEXT shortest starting C put you at a huge disadvantage?

[jezmund]

I'm just curious.  What is Okafor's standing reach and verts compared to Horford.  Can anyone find the pre-draft measurements from 2004?

[Nicholasp27]

he can jump more than 2" higher than most centers...

[jdu00743]

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[jdu00743]

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[Playa]

Im curious to see Zaza standing reach. It'll probably be like 8"2

[sturt]

In just the last 5 years, we have found it to be dramatically clear that a Stoudamire or a Wallace can fill the C slot.

BK hasn't said it to my knowledge, but I believe this is a big reason why he's taken the approach that he has over the years... Shaqs, Kareems, and Wilts are too rare to depend on that kind of acquisition... and Laimbeers, and Wil Purdues are primarily built for a half-court game... instead of being lucky or instead of playing a different style to accomodate slower centers, there is a philosophy that has emerged that says you acquire all the long, tall, quality players you can at the low post positions, and rotate your big butts among the two low post positions.

This can work.

It's not optimal. Tim Duncan is optimal. Greg Oden is optimal. But just because you don't have the optimal prototype doesn't mean much today... there are many exceptions now to what was once a die-hard rule... in fact, having a Duncan or an Oden is the exception.

And btw, if you're all about measurements, don't make the mistake of focusing on just one... these guys don't play in lead shoes. And one notable omission on the DE chart: we don't know what Ben Wallace's standing reach is.

[exodus]

Amare can't defend centers at all. Ask any Suns fan. They also complain that he is in foul trouble more than any top player in the league.

The Suns can get away with it because Amare is such an offensive force and can score on anyone. Plus they play at a very fast pace.

Ben Wallace bench presses 400 pounds and has proven that he can defend the center spot, even slowing down Shaq.



Trying to use 2 starting centers out of 30 to justify starting Horford at center doesn't make sense, especially since Horford doesn't resemble either of them.

[sturt]

Ex, in your case, I'm talking to the hand, obviously... to say Horford doesn't even resemble those guys makes that clear.

Instead, why not just ignore my posts altogether?... might allow you to lay off the Pepcid.

I will agree that it sure would be nice to identify Pryz or a suitable clone to fortify that slot when we play against one of the handful of teams in the league who have centers that can actually dominate.

[Swatguy]

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And please put this into the equation while doing it...No one has refuted this point made by Exodus yet...

Horford's standing reach is only 8'11...that would be at least 2 inches shorter than any other center in the league.

I am more worried about him on defense, than him going up against C's on offense.

Ok, now enlighten me.

/forums/images/graemlins/munching_out.gif

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Why would anyone needwant to convince you? Either you except it or not. Everyone will find out, in time.
The guy is 6'10" and all the tools.  /forums/images/graemlins/pillepalle.gif

[Dolfan23]

just because Amare plays a poor defensive C at 6'10 240 or whatever he is doesn't mean that all natural PFs who are his size will be the same. I doubt that is a shock to you but I want to make a point that even if Amare was 7' 265 he would still probably be a poor defender. For whatever reason (I think it's a lack of proper fundamentals) he isn't a good defender and unless he makes a commitment to change that he won't ever be a good defender.

Horford, on the other hand, has a fundamental pedigree when it comes to how he learned how to play basketball (same for Law for that matter) because he was taught how to play the game the right way from a very young age. While being the same size or slightly smaller than Amare he has proven that he can guard one of the better 5's in the world in Oden. Sure Oden was able to still have a very good game in the championship but show me one player in the NBA that would have stopped him from doing what he did (at Horford's age). Also, Horford showed that he can go up against a guy like Oden on the offensive end and make a tremendous impact. I think he had 18 points and 12 rebounds in that game. Those are tremendous numbers against a guy like Oden.

I forget who made this comparison but I read it somewhere that Horford is a very similar player to Elton Brand (although Horford is 2" taller). Brand isn't the prototype C but if you put him in the east and give him another 2 inches in height he could definitely anchor the team. Very similar to what Mourning did for Miami for all those years back when he was in his prime. Horford plays the same way that both of those guys play and I would venture that within 2 years Horford will be a clone of Mourning physically as both are the same height with Mourning being about 15 lbs heavier right now. Anyone remember what Mournings playing weight was during his prime years? I imagine he was probably about 10 lbs lighter than he is now.

[Dolfan23]

I don't know what Horfords max bench press is although I'm sure it's not 400 lbs (if I had to guess I would say he is probably low 300's) but more importantly he was able to put up the 185 lb bar 20 times and I seem to remember reading that he did it easily and could have pushed it more times had it been needed. I would challenge you (or anyone) to find more than a few players with anywhere near Horfords talent level in the NBA with more strength and stamina than him.

[exodus]

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Ex, in your case, I'm talking to the hand, obviously... to say Horford doesn't even resemble those guys makes that clear.

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Sometimes i wonder if you even watch other teams. Amare is a dominant scorer in the pros. Horford is an average scorer in college.

And Amare can't guard centers.

At his peak Ben was averaging 13 rebounds and 3 blocks. He has a DPOY award. Horford averaged 9 rebounds and 2 blocks in college. Again a nonsensical comparison.

Rest assured that you will be seeing your posts again next year.  

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I will agree that it sure would be nice to identify Pryz or a suitable clone to fortify that slot when we play against one of the handful of teams in the league who have centers that can actually dominate.  

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An average center turns into a dominant center against us because we are so undersized. Chandler has a hard time scoring in an empty gym but in two games against us he had 32 pts shooting over 80% FROM THE FIELD.