227 replies to this topic

[oiatlhawksfan]

LOL, I can picture you in tears, when you didn't hear the name Mike Conley!

[TnDawg]

""m no expert on him, but doesn't having a 2 inch shorter standing reach than the NEXT shortest starting C put you at a huge disadvantage?"

     I would think that two inches wouldn't matter much if Horford is stronger than the guys he is guarding and he uses good technique while defending the basket. A 6'10" center can be effective in this league if he is fundamentally sound, which every analysis that I have read states Horford is.

[Dolfan23]

Which is exactly why we took 2 fundamentally sound bruisers back to back in the draft in SW and Horford. SW was hurt most of last year so we won't truly see what he is capable of until this year. Without those 2 we had Smoove who is maybe the worst positional defender on our team and Zaza who is just a bad defender in almost all regards. It's no wonder teams could score at will on us.

Yes there will be teams that can shoot over us but that's only if they have talented offensive 4-5's who are at least 6'10. How many teams have that going for them? Not many that's for sure.

I believe that Horford and SW will see a lot of time together on the floor when we need defense and both are as fundamentally sound positional defenders (and both extremely intelligent to boot) as you will find anywhere in the world. It might take a while, maybe even next year, but you will see that Horford and SW together are going to be a GREAT 4-5 combo.

[exodus]

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LOL, I can picture you in tears, when you didn't hear the name Mike Conley!

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I would have been in tears if we had picked Crit. Law i am fine with.

[exodus]

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Which is exactly why we took 2 fundamentally sound bruisers back to back in the draft in SW and Horford.  

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But they are both undersized for centers.

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Yes there will be teams that can shoot over us but that's only if they have talented offensive 4-5's who are at least 6'10.

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They don't need to be dominant to easily shoot over us. Okafor isn't a dominant scorer unless he plays us.

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Smoove who is maybe the worst positional defender on our team  

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That is just plain dumb. Smith did a very good job at the 4 but also he has to cover for everyone else's mistakes since he is the only one who can protect the rim.

[Dolfan23]

I have to ask that because NOBODY who actually watches this team would call that statement about Smoove being a poor positional defender dumb. Smoove is a great defensive player, he is super exciting, and he blocks a lot of shots and yes he does have to help a lot. However, he can be backed down quite easily and he goes for pump fakes as much as anyone I have ever seen. That's why he gets in foul trouble so often, which then leads to him getting pissed off and the occasional technical foul.

[sturt]

Ex, "resemble" wasn't taken to mean stats, but rather to mean physically resemble...

Sometimes I wonder if you ever even pause to think about whether there is a reasonable explanation for why another person thinks differently than you do about X...

(The bullying act really isn't necessary, brother. You seem able to get your ideas across without the pontificating thing, so try to lighten up.)

[exodus]

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statement about Smoove being a poor positional defender dumb.  

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Maybe you should read your own quote again because you don't even seem to know what you said.

[exodus]

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Ex, "resemble" wasn't taken to mean stats, but rather to mean physically resemble...

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I am the exact same size as Law so i guess i could start as the Hawks pg.

You are picking the exceptions to the rule. First you have to pick only 2 out of 30 starting centers. And it just so happens that they are freaks of nature. Ben is a 4 time DPOY winner and Amare made 1st team All-NBA.

Do you really think those are realistic comparisons?

[AtLaS]

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And having seen him play.

I"m no expert on him, but doesn't having a 2 inch shorter standing reach than the NEXT shortest starting C put you at a huge disadvantage?

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No, standing reach helps with BLOCKS and nothing else.  Blocks do not equal good defense.  I'd rather someone play good positional defense rather than get an extra block per game.

Shelden is a great rebounder and he has almost no athleticism, is 6'8", and has an 8'8" standing reach.  But keep listening to exodus..

[sturt]

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Ex, "resemble" wasn't taken to mean stats, but rather to mean physically resemble...

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I am the exact same size as Law so i guess i could start as the Hawks pg.

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Do you really think that's representative of the extent of the logic in saying Horford physically resembles Player X?

At least respect the opposing argument enough that you avoid being specious.

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You are picking the exceptions to the rule. First you have to pick only 2 out of 30 starting centers. And it just so happens that they are freaks of nature. Ben is a 4 time DPOY winner and Amare made 1st team All-NBA.

Do you really think those are realistic comparisons?

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It actually isn't all that uncommon in NBA history, even, to have 6-9-or-thereabouts centers.

Again... not optimal... but also not a factor that damns a team to lottery hell.

It's premature to say whether Horford will reach his potential. Draft hype is often inaccurate. But by almost all accounts by outside observers, Horford can be special.

[exodus]

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But by almost all accounts by outside observers, Horford can be special.

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What you have to realize is that, if he becomes an average starting 4, that IS special. That means only 15 pfs are as good as or better than him. Considering how many players are drafted each year that is an elite group.

But when you start talking about comparing him to 1st team All-NBA players or 4 time DPOY winners you lose me.

[AtLaS]

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But when you start talking about comparing him to 1st team All-NBA players or 4 time DPOY winners you lose me.

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... but being picked at #3 it is definitely reasonable to expect him to be better than average.  The PF position is the most stacked of any position in the NBA, and an average PF is still a great player.  I expect him to be better than "average," but you don't.  I'll be sure to bump this in the future.

[jdu00743]

You're going to tell me getting a hand in the face doesn't drastically alter FG%?

[sturt]

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But by almost all accounts by outside observers, Horford can be special.

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What you have to realize is that, if he becomes an average starting 4, that IS special. That means only 15 pfs are as good as or better than him. Considering how many players are drafted each year that is an elite group.

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If that's the definition you want to use, then that's your choice... but I think the word carried more meaning than that when I heard it uttered or written... just my opinion, but I don't think I was reading too much into it.

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But when you start talking about comparing him to 1st team All-NBA players or 4 time DPOY winners you lose me.

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I don't believe you're lost at all... I believe that's a convenient comeback, albeit a somewhat curious one...

The question is whether a player of Horford's size can be successful at the 5 position, is it not?

The answer that we ought to both be able to agree on: Yes, it is possible, but it is not common.

Surely that's not too hard to sign-off on.

Here's the follow-up, though, one should think about...

How many teams start centers who are in that 6-9 range to begin with?

Not many.

So, the ratio (...about 2 starters, and of those 2, both of whom are, to some degree, "stars" in the league...) gives reason to explore whether the size factor is over-rated... in other words, if you had half of the teams' coaches were less focused on height and more on talent at the 5, would those teams ordinarily fare better than those who made it an imperative that their 5 be at least 6-11?

'Twould be an interesting experiment.

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