8 replies to this topic

[Diesel]

KG, Ray Allen, and Rondo

for

JJ, Hinrich, Marvin, Teague, and a first rounder.


Would you do this deal?


This trade is for all my Joe haters.

You get Joe off the Books.

KG and Ray come off the books next year.  Atlanta can bid on D-Howard.


Boston would have:

JTeague, JJ, PP, Marvin, and AL.

So with Rondo, Josh, and Zaza and a boatload of cash...
How many believe we could attract Howard?

[capstone21]

I think Howard would rather play with Josh and JJ an established all star who would be a great second banana/inside outside combo with him.  He doesn't want to come here anyway

[Diesel]

What about the argument for an allstar quality PG.

Rondo/Josh gives him that.

[thecampster]

Diesel, on 18 December 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

What about the argument for an allstar quality PG.

Rondo/Josh gives him that.

Rondo/Josh/Randolph Morris and Howard all played together in AAU.

You wouldn't we able to sigh Howard with that deal Diesel.  You would only be able to sign him, up to the cap number and with Josh and Al earning 25 million next year, Zaza and Rondo on the books...pushes you to 40+ million.  You are out of money to sign Dwight and sign a bench.

I personally think Joe is a bad investment, but I am not for trading him for expiring and a prayer.  I think he's a Joe first player but I don't think he's a bad guy.  I just think he holds on to the ball too long without enough in return.  6 more FT attempts a game, on the same or less number of shots and a little more vocal leadership and I would change my mind.  But Joe would need to draw contact for that to happen.

For example, I think Al and Josh at 6 million less a year provide equal to or more than Joe.  I want value for my money and Joe doesn't bring it for me.  I've been asked recently why I prefer Josh to Joe  and I'll let you know.  Joe's assists are a result of being forced to give up the ball and getting bailed out a good bit. Most of his assists came on jumpers.  Josh's assist come because Josh likes to get assists.  Most of his assists are to people cutting to the basket.  I'll take those assists anyday.

For example, in 2010-2011, Joe Johnson had 338 assists. 255 of those were on Jumpers or 3-pters.  83 were close-up or dunks (24.6%). Translation, Joe got bottled up, held on to it too long and had to rotate it to the open man.

Now look at Josh.  Same season, 255 assists (83 less that year) but 113 (30 more) were close-up or dunks (44.3%).  Meaning Josh as a passer is looking to work the ball inside for higher percentage shots.

Now lets look at Kobe, a comparable positional player to Joe.  39.4% of his assists are in the paint.  Or sample D.Wade.  32.04%.  Joe has 2 major flaws in his game.  He doesn't get to the free throw line enough and he doesn't think "team create" first, he thinks (self create) first.  Go back and look at our games last year.  Imagine a world where JJ got to the line 6 extra times a game and got 2 more and-1 assists a game.  That's 8 points.  Now count up the losses of 8 points or less. I count 13 games last year in which Joe played and we lost by 8 or less.  Assuming those minor changes in Joes game and a turn around of 8 points, the Hawks would have won 57 last year, not 44.  I know things can be said of Josh, Marvin and even Al but none of them are max players on their teams.

[Diesel]

thecampster, on 19 December 2011 - 02:09 AM, said:

Rondo/Josh/Randolph Morris and Howard all played together in AAU.

You wouldn't we able to sigh Howard with that deal Diesel.  You would only be able to sign him, up to the cap number and with Josh and Al earning 25 million next year, Zaza and Rondo on the books...pushes you to 40+ million.  You are out of money to sign Dwight and sign a bench.

Al was part of the original trade with Boston  My bad.

Edited by Diesel, 19 December 2011 - 05:01 AM.

[DrReality]

They are long in the tooth.  No deal

[nbasuperstar40]

Why does Boston do this deal? They add bad contracts and move exp contracts and the best player in the deal.

[Diesel]

nbasuperstar40, on 20 December 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

Why does Boston do this deal? They add bad contracts and move exp contracts and the best player in the deal.

Well, they get Joe, Teague and Horf to go with Pierce.  That's already a formidable team.  Plus they get a first rounder from us.

Now, we're not going to be worldbeaters.   What we have is KG, Allen, Josh, Rondo and the hopes that we can use the expiring money to draw in Howard.   But with that older team, we're not guaranteed to do much.

However, it would be sweet to get Howard and resign KG and Allen for shorter smaller deals.

[warcore]

I like the idea.