29 replies to this topic

[Diesel]

David Robinson, Danny Manning, Kevin Ollie, John Salmons, Travis Best,  Sean Elliot, Stanley Roberts, & Loy Vault are all Rookies that played under Larry Brown.

I don't think any of these guys found themselves as Minute POOR as Darko.  Moreover, only a few of these guys were drafted as High or higher than Darko.  

Don't place the blame on LB.  I believe that Darko not playing is Darko's fault.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

In reply to:

---

David Robinson, Danny Manning, Kevin Ollie, John Salmons, Travis Best, Sean Elliot, Stanley Roberts, & Loy Vault are all Rookies that played under Larry Brown.

I don't think any of these guys found themselves as Minute POOR as Darko. Moreover, only a few of these guys were drafted as High or higher than Darko.

Don't place the blame on LB. I believe that Darko not playing is Darko's fault.

---

Are you just posting just to see yourself post?  Danny Manning's coaches his rookie year were Gene Shue and Don Casey.  Kevin Ollie's coach was Chuck Daley in Orlando.  Stanley Robert's rookie coach was Matt Guokas in Orlando.  Remember he was drafted the year before Shaq arrived.  Loy Vaught's coach was Mike Schuler.   Where in the [censored] did you get your information?

Sean Elliott and David Robinson were good defensive players who are exceptions to the rule when it comes to rookies and good defense.   Again, Larry Brown is a defensive coach who will not play rookies, because the majority do not play good defense.  Travis Best and John Salmons received junk minutes in their first year in the league.  Both averaged under 10 minutes per game their rookie seasons.  Please do your research before coming here throwing names out.  

TROUBLEMAN

[Weez]

also, were those players coming to teams that went to the conference finals the previous year and returned with the same cast fully intact? with four players ahead of them at their respective positions, one of which is an All-Star and 2time defending All-NBA Defensive POY? Add to that his age (younger than anyone else in the L this year...even Bron Bron, younger than anyone EVER in a draft)... and it's pretty apparent to see why Darko's not playing more.

I don't htink anyone here is arguing that "Darko's great," but D, yo'ure just showing your ignorance in trying to label him a bust.

(note, if Diesel decides that he has lost/could be wrong in this argument, he will cease to post on this thread, ignoring it for all practical matters).

[Diesel]

A few of my points were off.  But the thing that still remains true was that these players were YOUNG when he got most of them.  The other thing is would it have mattered to you if all of them were Rookies?

I mean, the ones I was right on.... Robinson/Elliot... You dismiss?

In reply to:

---

Sean Elliott and David Robinson were good defensive players who are exceptions to the rule when it comes to rookies and good defense. Again, Larry Brown is a defensive coach who will not play rookies, because the majority do not play good defense.

---

I mean, Jez Troubleman...  What are you really saying?  

Let me translate.  Darko's defense Sucks.  

And Best/Salmon...

In reply to:

---

Travis Best and John Salmons received junk minutes in their first year in the league. Both averaged under 10 minutes per game their rookie seasons.

---

OK... let's see.

Best - 23rd pick in the draft.
Salmon - 26th Pick in the draft.
Darko - 2nd Pick in the draft.

Who would you expect to play more minutes???  Darko is averaging 3.2 mpg.  That's true garbage time

As far as me doing my research... OK Trouble.. here goes your theory...

Todd McCollough... Rookie Year.... 528 minutes total.
Larry Hughes ...Rookie Year.....988 minutes total.
Tim Thomas....Rookie Year.......1779 minutes total.
Darko....Rookie year. .....48 minutes total thus far.

None of the guys above are outstanding defensive players.  However, as Rookies playing from Brown, they got Minutes...  Darko didn't.
The fact that Darvin Ham has played more minutes than the second pick overall says a lot.  Especially considering that one of Darko's attributes is that he is supposed to be able to play 4 positions.

[TROUBLEMAN69]

In reply to:

---

A few of my points were off. But the thing that still remains true was that these players were YOUNG when he got most of them. The other thing is would it have mattered to you if all of them were Rookies?

I mean, the ones I was right on.... Robinson/Elliot... You dismiss?

---

So what they were young, they were not rookies.  Robinson/Elliott??  I already explained to you why their situation was different.  Not to mention the fact that they both played 4 years of college ball, and Robinson served 2 years in the military.  Who was going to play in front of Robinson?  39 year old Caldwell Jones?  These guys were capable of doing the things that Brown wanted, namely play defense.

In reply to:

---

OK... let's see.

Best - 23rd pick in the draft.
Salmon - 26th Pick in the draft.
Darko - 2nd Pick in the draft.

Who would you expect to play more minutes??? Darko is averaging 3.2 mpg. That's true garbage time

---

Salmon played 7 minutes a game in 64 games.  Travis Best played a whopping 9.7 minutes a game.  [censored], they are regular contributors. (insert sarcasm)  The Pistons said that Darko wasn't going to play major minutes before they drafted him, and they are sticking to the plan.  They announced to the world that they were going to bring him along slowly.

In reply to:

---

As far as me doing my research... OK Trouble.. here goes your theory...

Todd McCollough... Rookie Year.... 528 minutes total.
Larry Hughes ...Rookie Year.....988 minutes total.
Tim Thomas....Rookie Year.......1779 minutes total.
Darko....Rookie year. .....48 minutes total thus far.

None of the guys above are outstanding defensive players. However, as Rookies playing from Brown, they got Minutes... Darko didn't.

---

Larry Hughes and Tim Thomas proved that they were capable defenders.  I didn't say they had to be outstanding defenders.  You don't have make the all-defensive team in order to play for Larry Brown.  Geez.  They were above average defenders for rookies.  Again, most Europeans, no matter how experienced they are, come into the league as poor defenders.  Boris Diaw is an exception to the rule.  

Also, as some one else pointed out, the Pistons are a team that played in the Eastern Conference Finals one year ago.  The 76er's was a lottery team when they picked Thomas and Hughes.   Todd McCollough's 9 minutes per game is not even worth mentioning.

In reply to:

---

The fact that Darvin Ham has played more minutes than the second pick overall says a lot. Especially considering that one of Darko's attributes is that he is supposed to be able to play 4 positions.

---

What does that say?  It proves that Larry Brown is concerned about defense.  Darvin Ham was brought in because he is a good defender.   Other than that, it doesn't say anything to me.
  

TROUBLEMAN

[Weez]

I'm still waiting to hear how the 18 year old kid who won't be 19 until June, JUNE of this year is supposed to earn pt over that detroit frontline, esp. for a defensive-minded coach...and A TOP 2 TEAM IN THE EAST.

simply put, Detroit can't afford to go through "growing pains" with Darko...he's 18, europena, and without significant pt behind him overseas...and that's part of why they drafted him over Carmelo. They have too much going on right now to try to really insert another piece into the rotation for a significant amount of the time. If you want me to go into the "why detroit drafted darko" talk, then I'll doso, but your bashing of him based on nothing, absolutely nothing, has about about as much "legs" as wee man and is falling apart faster than Pete Rose's plan for redemption...

[HawkTodd]

In reply to:

---

I'm still waiting to hear how the 18 year old kid who won't be 19 until June, JUNE of this year is supposed to earn pt over that detroit frontline, esp. for a defensive-minded coach...and A TOP 2 TEAM IN THE EAST.

---

Amen.

Heck he wasn't even playing huge minutes on his Euro team. Everything is so what are you doing for me now. Just like Kwame Brown, people labeled him a bust eary on in his career people forget that he would only be a junior in college this season if he had elected to take that route. Nobody expected Darko to come in and play huge minutes right away it will take time. I think you should look back at this in about 5 years and then see where Darko stands.

[Diesel]

I'm wondering How a second pick in the draft overall is sitting the bench while guys like Darvin Ham and Rebracka are soaking up minutes.  Even when Detroit's frontline (a few weeks ago) was Hurt, LB didn't put Darko in the game.   Darko have played a collection of 48 seconds, 2 mins appearances.  

Jez Weez...  Not every game that Detroit plays is Close.  Why shouldn't a "Superstar in the making" get those Junk minutes over a guy like Ham??  Rebracka???

[Dolfan23]

Every few months you find a new guy to crusade against and now its the teenage Milicic.  I guess you dont understand that in most sports and most professions for that matter, young guys just arent thrown to the wolves like that.  Sure there are some VERY rare exceptions like Lebron and even somewhat Carmelo that do play a lot and play very well, but that is VERY rare.  Look at Oneal, McGrady, Kobe, etc.  None of those guys blew up their rookie seasons and when you have a young guy that you dont want to ruin his confidence you dont just throw him out there to let it get destroyed.  Right now Darko isnt ready to be a contributor on both ends of the floor so they are holding him back so that he doesnt hurt the team and so that he doesnt get his confidence killed by getting out there and doing poorly.

[chillzatl]

That doesn't mean he's a bust. He's just not ready to play. At last in LB's eyes. Doesn't have [censored] to do with him not playing rookies, though he is known for that, despite your list. Darko just isn't ready to get a lot of minutes. Not when he has solid players on the bench to put in that are smarter. Maybe not as talented and gifted, but smarter and that's what LB values most.

Much like Lenny, who everyone knows doesn't like to play rookies either. Now you always tried to give him excuses by listing 8 players over and over again as an example of all the rookies that have gotten lots of minutes under him, in his 100 year coaching career. But the truth is, Lenny doesn't like to play rookies and neither does LB. I don't care what list of exceptional people you dig up, that's the truth of it. I don't care how much talent Darko has, until he learns how to play smart ball, he'll ride the pine under LB.

[Carl_Spackler]

That is just absurd...

[cyman3]

all i know is that the pistons watched Darko shoot jumpers like crazy last year and wished he was on the team during the playoffs....

i really doubt that Larry isint playin him cuz he sucks... i think he wants to bring him in slowly.

besides, this is the NBA... even the bench players in the NBA are capable of bringing in their A game to help their team win.  Brown simply believes that his bench is more capable of being effective than Darko at this point...

thats all that it means.

and its not like the Pistons have many BLOWOUT 20+ point leads in any of their games... they play hard D and most of their games are close.

[sd79]

The thing is... guys like him, who are not ready to play at that level shouldn't be drafted. I'm sick of that potential [censored]! What's next? Drafting guys straight out of kindergarden?

Make those guys earn their chances!

If you're not ready for the NBA, you shouldn't be here. Darko should've stayed in Europe for a couple of years!

[chillzatl]

nobody really knows why he isn't playing. You hear all these reports, both new and old, saying that he's a very good player. But he's not playing!??

I think it's that he doesn't yet play as LB wants him to play. He might be able to shoot fine. But if he's having problems learning plays, defending, learning the system, LB would bench him. Especially when he has someone who does all those things, but isn't as talented, already there and ready to go.

But the truth is, nobody knows. It's ALL speculation. People like to speculate because Detroit could have had Mello. They seem to want Darko to fail because he got picked ahead of the home town favorite. This probably burns the Piston fans most of all. But Mello could have looked just as average under LB as Darko does. Mello got drafted by a team that needed a chucker, someone who puts up shots. That's what Mello does and he looks all the better because of who drafted him. Had Darko went to a team that said "get out there and score", who knows how good he might look. But LB just isn't that type coach.

[OGRat]

The question I have is would Detroit trade him?

I would venture that if Darko has shown any potential to the Pistons, no they would not trade him.

Otherwise, they'd trade him and whoever to Milicic would probably be ignoring the signs on the wall.

Oh, you say... "Maybe they value success in the play-offs more than Darka."

Horse puckey!!!