14 replies to this topic

[nbasuperstar40]

I like the fact that they play hard. Made good bench signings. Have a good coach. Want to win. Marvin has improved greatly.

I don't like the fact that they have NO shot at winning a title. I don't like the fact that they will never fit. I don't like the fact that Teague is a very talented player but he can't create for others at all and he's mentally fragile. I don't like that Joe isn't talented enough to ever be more than Robin. I don't like the fact that Horford needs a PnR PG and those are almost impossible to get. I still wish we would have drafted Ty Lawson. He would be perfect. I still don't like that Josh is an extremely talented guy who has low offensive IQ and has the worst consistency for a player of his caliber in the NBA. I don't like the fact that we have no true center and all of the reasonable centers cost a lot more than they should. I don't like that Marvin doesn't live this sport. I can see that Al, Joe, and Josh want to be great but Marvin mentally is like Hinrich but with more talent and higher expectations without Hinrich's toughness. Marvin just wants to do a job but with his talent, he could do a lot more.

I could like this team more than any other but I can hate this team more than any other. The only thing that's a fact is we aren't winning a title or getting to the NBA Finals. We play ugly Basketball. We have no true PG. We don't have fit outside of the 2nd unit with starters are healthy. I really think we need a superstar. I think everyone knows that on here. I don't care what it takes, just get one. ASG rep would be much better if they tried(did). I hear Dwight reps say that this rental thing will only make you look stupid since he only wants Dal,  NJN, or LAL. That's cool, take the risk. Force Dwight to choose: Atlanta or Die. This isn't Cleveland. He has the talent and we will spend if we could sell tickets. Clearly Dwight is that type of player. Atlanta would show up ASAP with Dwight as a Hawk. ASG knows that too. Dwight knows Atlanta would treat him like Vick who owned the city. Dwight knows this, he knows if he leaves he can never come back again. It is just simple as that. He will be like Will Smith to Philly in Fresh Prince of Bel Air. It's all up to Dwight in that regard. ASG could keep this team together but why? The attendance figures is awful. It won't get any better. No one thinks this team can win. Even your diehards think this team has no shot. No one ever thought this team can be contenders. They just say any given night, Atlanta can beat anybody. That's like smashing hot chicks when drunk but you can't get her in a relationship when sober.

ASG needs to make a decision. Dwight might be a lost but would the chance of winning a title as well as contending might be enough to keep Dwight in Atlanta away from New Jersey. Teague could use Dwight especially for his own offense. Joe is no Batman, he needs Dwight. Josh is Josh, he is probably traded as well. Al can't stay for one reason outside of injury. He is our best piece bar none and one of the best players in the NBA especially given the right personnel. Marvin is Marvin, I don't expect much change with or without Dwight for him.

Edited by nbasuperstar40, 03 February 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[cptkirksavetheday]

Al and Teague for Deron and Brooks <

if we cant get dwight

Edited by cptkirksavetheday, 03 February 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[nbasuperstar40]

cptkirksavetheday, on 03 February 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Al and Teague for Deron and Brooks <<besides that i agree with everything stated ^

That's a stupid a*s trade. It doesn't make us contenders. Josh is not a PnR PF. I don't know how many times I have to state that. The only player who can get a lot better with the addition of a PnR PG is Al Horford. Outside of that, everyone outside of Jeff has peaked.

Teague will top out much higher than Devin Harris. I don't know if he can get the Kevin Johnson level but he can get close.

Joe is Joe. He would be better as Robin.

Marvin is Marvin. He is what he is. A talented SF who can do a lot but nothing special.

Josh is Josh. No need to go any further with him. He is who he is.

Al will continue to regress with Jeff. I called it after the Bibby trade. He needs a real PG. To truly excel, he needs an elite PnR PG. Or else he will regress.

The rest have peaked and are role players.

That wasn't to insult you capt, it is just my opinion. I respect your response.

[GameTime]

What is a viable package that Orlando will accept? Al Horford is hurt so I doubt they want an injured Al.

Trading Josh Smith for Dwight Howard doesn't make any sense for both parties.

[nbasuperstar40]

GameTime, on 03 February 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

What is a viable package that Orlando will accept? Al Horford is hurt so I doubt they want an injured Al.

Trading Josh Smith for Dwight Howard doesn't make any sense for both parties.

Trade both Josh Smith and Al Horford for Dwight and Ryan Anderson. Josh isn't good enough to make a great difference and he's a big enough piece to add enough value to get this deal over the rest without question. The issue is Ryan Anderson. With Dwight he is a good PF and can give you a stretch 4 with good rebounding numbers. Without Dwight is he even that much better than Ivan Johnson?

I never like the idea of trading Marvin since the NBA is SF heavy in terms of talent. Melo, Bron, Durant, Deng, Granger, Iggy. It seems like all the contending teams have a legit or superstar SF. Especially in the East. Marvin is a top tier defensive SF with Bruce Bowen 3pt range so he needs to stay.

I know a lot will give their spill why Josh should stay but simply, he just isn't that big of a difference maker with Howard. He does a lot of the same things Dwight does but not as well as Dwight. We are trying to win titles and build a dynasty. While it's great their best buds, if Dwight leaves to NJN and Smith takes less and follows him a year later, who's looking like the idiots now. In other words, Josh and Dwight fits just isn't that great if he is a critical piece in a trade for Howard as well.

Edited by nbasuperstar40, 03 February 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[capstone21]

GameTime, on 03 February 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Trading Josh Smith for Dwight Howard doesn't make any sense for both parties.

huh...how would that not make sense for us?

Orlando would never take Smith for Howard but if they would we would do a combo or him and whoever for Howard every day of the week.

[GameTime]

capstone21, on 03 February 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

huh...how would that not make sense for us?

Orlando would never take Smith for Howard but if they would we would do a combo or him and whoever for Howard every day of the week.

No way Dwight is staying as is without Smoove.

[nbasuperstar40]

GameTime, on 03 February 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

No way Dwight is staying as is without Smoove.

How do you know that? As of right now, he isn't staying with or without Smoove or else he would have us with NJ, LAL, or DAL.

[nbasuperstar40]

We have the best perimeter defense in the NBA with Jeff, Joe, Marvin plus the bench guys. You add Dwight to that and you will probably have the greatest defensive unit in NBA history. You can put a plant at PF and it wouldn't affect the defense. That's just how good we are at 1,2,3,5 on defense if Dwight is here.

Right now via hoopdata, we have the 4th best defense in the NBA. When watching the games, that is clear. We completely make it h*ll to drive to the paint. We give up too many easy points and rebounds as for now. Teague and Hinrich is the best defensive duo at PG in the NBA. Joe and Willie Green is sound. Marvin and T-Mac is the best defensive duo at SF in the NBA. Smith is an elite defensive player. He's a jack of all trades defensive player. Zaza is benefiting from our 1-4 defensive crew. Rad is benefiting from the bench defensive talent. This isn't quite the Pistons of yesteryears but they are close with our current personnel.

http://hoopdata.com/teamdefstats.aspx

Edit: Looking at Philly numbers, they have the best perimeter defense in the NBA when Louis Williams is not in the game. It seems like Louis has the Jamal effect but not to the extreme of Jamal.

Edited by nbasuperstar40, 04 February 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[phoostal]

I think this point is irrelevant at this time.  We never come up in trade talks with the Magic and with Horford being out for the year that severely hurts our chances of making a trade.  

Atlanta never man's up and does something daring like this to make an impact.  So don't get your hopes up.  

We will be riding this team into the ground, doesn't matter if you like it or not.  This organization doesn't make bold moves.  

Hell it won't even pay an extra million to K-Mart.  Give me a break.  Regardless if you think he can play or not, he would give us more than twin and give us an another big man.  Now we will go scrub shopping in the D-League, awesome strategy.

P

[Dolfan23]

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[Hotlanta1981]

It seems like when I'm feeling less pessimistic about team everyone else becomes more pessimistic. As far as winning a title goes, this team never really was on track to getting there. I've blamed the players, but the reality that is that too many bad decisions have been made over the years by ownership and management. I think the team is doing ALMOST as good as they can possibly do given that this team has never had depth or a real center since they were put together. If this team got to the finals as it's currently built, it would be the most amazing thing to happen in the NBA in the last decade IMO.

As for Al.. He is a Horace Grant level player. Which is not too bad. But he's never going to be a real force on the offensive end. 15PPG is probably max level for him. But he really isn't going to help us that much unless we can get some size next to him and a superstar. Teague is basically Tony Parker lite. I compare him to Pargo sometimes as an insult to him more or less, but he is basically Tony Parker lite. Which isn't a terrible thing... But these guys are just going to waste away unless we get someone better than Joe to be "the guy" on this team. Joe has played well against mediocre teams, but he shows his age when this team is up against the better teams in the league. It's not all that different than Smitty's later years here in ATL. The later years in which Smitty was still productive, but you could see that he was becoming more injury prone and more of a role player. I think this should be Joe's last year as a Hawk. He is becoming more and more of a non factor in big games. And it's only going to get worse.

That said, I think this team can still get out of the first round. Maybe the second if they faced the right team that maybe was having some injury issues. But largely, it's going to be the same story as before. This team will be competitive in the playoffs, but they will simply loose to the stars. I like the that the team is more competitive than in years past, but until changes are made this what we have.

[nbasuperstar40]

Al ain't no Horace Grant. Horace had the IQ of a tool. He really didn't move all that well within an offense. He actually was a better low post player than Al on skill alone. Al is a PnR PF. Horace was an all around PF. They seems similar with our personnel but you put one in his personnel and the other in his and the gap is wider than the Sahara.

Jeff and Tony are very similar. Jeff is more explosive but not quite the IQ of Parker. Personally, Parker has a lot of help playing with prime Duncan and without prime Duncan he's not that good. Jeff would be a lot better if he had a low post elite big like Duncan or Howard. Jeff reminds me the most of KJ with his style of play but Parker is who his skill-set closely follows.

Joe reminds me more of Allen Houston before the wheels fell off. Both are very good players but they do nothing really elite. Houston was better on offense but Joe is better on defense.

[Hotlanta1981]

nbasuperstar40, on 04 February 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Al ain't no Horace Grant. Horace had the IQ of a tool. He really didn't move all that well within an offense. He actually was a better low post player than Al on skill alone. Al is a PnR PF. Horace was an all around PF. They seems similar with our personnel but you put one in his personnel and the other in his and the gap is wider than the Sahara.

Jeff and Tony are very similar. Jeff is more explosive but not quite the IQ of Parker. Personally, Parker has a lot of help playing with prime Duncan and without prime Duncan he's not that good. Jeff would be a lot better if he had a low post elite big like Duncan or Howard. Jeff reminds me the most of KJ with his style of play but Parker is who his skill-set closely follows.

Joe reminds me more of Allen Houston before the wheels fell off. Both are very good players but they do nothing really elite. Houston was better on offense but Joe is better on defense.

I'm not saying their games were just alike... But both are 14/8 type of players in their prime.

[nbasuperstar40]

Hotlanta1981, on 04 February 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

I'm not saying their games were just alike... But both are 14/8 type of players in their prime.

Gotcha.