14 replies to this topic

[nbasuperstar40]

Yes, I know. I am not the biggest Josh Smith fan. But I was looking at his stats and I can help but think he is the unlucky version of Rajon Rondo. Severely flawed but extremely talented but unlike Rondo, he doesn't have the pieces around him where he needs to succeed. I can see why AHawks89 is always mad. Smoove has superstar talent. He's right, Smoove does have talent. Of course he doesn't have Hall of Fame elite talent but he could be a superstar in the same right as Rondo. Look at this:

eWins  per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
13.9  James,Lebron   Mia   38   .593   31.0   8.6   6.7   1.8   3.4   .8   2.90
12.4  Durant,Kevin   Okl   39   .598   29.3   8.0   3.6   1.3   3.6  1.1   2.35
10.6  Smith,Josh     Atl   35   .490   21.7  10.8   4.2   1.5   2.6  1.8   2.21
10.6  Griffin,Blake  LAC   36   .545   23.1  12.2   3.2    .9   2.3   .7   2.14
10.2  Howard,Dwight  Orl   38   .550   22.1  14.9   2.1   1.4   3.1  2.2   2.38

10.1  Love,Kevin     Min   39   .555   25.3  12.9   1.9    .8   2.2   .5   2.27
9.7 Westbrook,Russel Okl   35   .529   26.3   5.0   6.5   1.8   3.8   .3   2.00
9.3   Jefferson,Al   Uta   34   .515   21.8  11.1   2.6    .8   1.1  1.7   2.18
9.2   Bryant,Kobe    LAL   39   .517   28.6   5.3   3.9   1.1   3.4   .3   1.99
9.0   Bynum,Andrew   LAL   35   .582   21.8  12.8   1.4    .5   2.7  2.0   2.06

eWins  per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
8.9   Paul,Chris     LAC   36   .571   22.3   4.0   8.3   2.6   2.1   .1   1.97
8.9   Gasol,Pau      LAL   37   .539   18.6  10.6   3.6    .6   2.2  1.3   1.77
8.5   Nowitzki,Dirk  Dal   33   .553   26.6   7.8   2.4    .8   2.1   .6   2.01
8.2   Wade,Dwyane    Mia   33   .549   28.1   6.0   5.8   1.9   3.0  1.5   2.45
8.2   Garnett,Kevin  Bos   31   .543   22.2  10.7   3.6   1.1   2.1  1.3   2.11

8.1  Anthony,Carmelo NYK   34   .515   26.7   7.3   4.5   1.3   2.9   .5   2.09
8.0 Cousins,Demarcus Sac   30   .489   21.1  13.6   1.8   1.8   3.3  1.4   2.00
8.0   Monroe,Greg    Det   32   .553   19.9  12.6   2.6   1.5   2.9   .9   1.86
7.9   Millsap,Paul   Uta   33   .537   19.8  10.5   2.7   2.1   2.0   .9   1.83
7.9   Boozer,Carlos  Chi   30   .544   22.7  11.2   2.6   1.2   2.2   .4   1.97

eWins  per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
7.9   Pierce,Paul    Bos   34   .556   25.0   6.1   4.5   1.3   3.1   .5   1.84
7.9   Gortat,Marcin  Phx   32   .568   18.8  12.1   1.1    .9   1.6  1.7   1.80
7.8   Duncan,Tim     SAS   28   .522   21.8  12.7   3.2    .9   2.2  2.0   2.31
7.8 Aldridge,Lamarcu Por   36   .551   23.4   8.8   2.6    .9   2.1   .8   1.88
7.7   Gasol,Marc     Mem   36   .530   16.5   9.7   3.2   1.0   1.9  1.8   1.57

7.4   Parker,Tony    SAS   32   .531   22.6   3.5   9.5   1.1   3.0   .1   1.86
7.3   Gay,Rudy       Mem   37   .514   20.7   6.8   2.3   1.5   2.5   .8   1.46
7.1   Bosh,Chris     Mia   35   .541   21.5   9.2   2.1    .9   2.2   .8   1.71
6.9 Jennings,Brandon Mil   35   .508   20.4   3.6   5.4   1.7   2.3   .3   1.44
6.9   Hibbert,Roy    Ind   30   .530   17.7  11.4   2.5    .6   2.5  2.4   1.73

eWins  per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
6.8   Lee,David      GSW   37   .540   20.2   9.8   2.6   1.0   2.6   .4   1.56
6.8   Anderson,Ryan  Orl   32   .582   21.1   9.5   1.1   1.0   1.1   .5   1.67
6.7   Williams,Deron NJN   36   .518   21.9   3.6   8.6   1.2   4.1   .4   1.63
6.6   Noah,Joakim    Chi   30   .551   15.0  12.5   3.1    .8   1.8  1.7   1.65
6.6   Granger,Danny  Ind   33   .533   22.9   5.7   2.2   1.1   2.0   .7   1.54

6.5   Johnson,Joe    Atl   35   .551   22.4   4.2   4.0    .8   2.0   .2   1.47
6.4   Humphries,Kris NJN   35   .528   15.1  12.5   1.6    .9   2.1  1.3   1.43
6.1   Rose,Derrick   Chi   35   .523   27.1   3.6   8.0    .9   3.2   .7   2.17
6.1   Wall,John      Was   36   .491   16.9   4.8   6.9   1.5   4.0   .9   1.24
6.1   Jamison,Antawn Cle   33   .474   19.2   7.4   2.1    .9   1.6   .7   1.37

eWins  per36 rates    tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
6.0   Ibaka,Serge    Okl   27   .549   13.6  11.0    .7    .7   1.7  4.9   1.62
6.0   West,David     Ind   29   .524   18.0   8.8   3.3   1.0   1.8   .9   1.50
5.8   Lawson,Ty      Den   35   .571   18.0   4.3   6.8   1.4   2.6   .1   1.33
5.8   Chandler,Tyson NYK   33   .682   14.7  11.8   1.2   1.0   1.8  1.6   1.37
5.8   Iguodala,Andre Phi   36   .527   15.0   6.5   5.0   1.8   1.9   .5   1.26

5.7   Rondo,Rajon    Bos   37   .475   13.5   5.2  11.9   1.8   3.7   .1   1.41
5.6   Nash,Steve     Phx   32   .617   15.8   3.7  12.4    .7   4.4   .2   1.38
5.6   Ilyasova,Ersan Mil   28   .568   18.1  11.8   1.5    .9   1.7   .9   1.62
5.5   Brand,Elton    Phi   29   .516   16.5   9.5   1.9   1.3   1.4  2.2   1.54
5.5   Scola,Luis     Hou   31   .519   19.5   8.3   2.7    .6   2.8   .4   1.29


Josh had 3rd highest eWins in the NBA.

Josh Smith, in the last 4 installments, rose from 8th, to 7th, to 4th, to 3rd in the league.
He wasn't even an all-star, nor has he ever been.

Players who have (since 1974) averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 reb, 3.9 ast, 1.4 stl, and 1.7 blk per game:
Kareem (3 times), Garnett (3x), Webber (twice), David Robinson, Bob Lanier, and Josh Smith this year.
The Hawks were 22nd in pace and 6th in DRtg this year.

Players with TReb% > 15.8, Ast% > 20.5, Stl% > 2, Blk% > 3.7 : Smoove this year and KG in 2004.


He lead the NBA in defensive win shares. Stayed healthy in most of all his career. 5th in Defensive rebounds. Was in the top 10 once in his career in steals. High Defensive BBIQ. Great stamina outside of last year when he was fat. Extremely athletic and always explosive. 9th in blocks and is a constant in the top 10 for blocks. Now, bad Josh is also 7th in FG attempts without someone setting up his offense. Not good at all hence the low percentages but someone has to shoot without Al and Jamal. Joe isn't going to play out of his comfort zone. Still Josh is a top tier talent. Yes he doesn't fit but we should appreciate him because in the right system and personnel grouping, he would looked at much better just like Horford and Joe would as well.




eWIns- equivalent wins. Assigning wins to players, according to their minutes and their productivity in those minutes. Called eWins, short for equivalent wins, as though all players were with average teams. Players blessed to be with elite teams, and those stuck on lousy teams are, in theory, given equivalent credit based on equivalent statistics, after scaling to team and opponent averages.
With teams having played differing numbers of games, player eWins are scaled to the 66 games their teams will play, based on their minutes so far.
eWins per 484 minutes are given, where 1.00 is NBA average productivity.

[nbasuperstar40]

Josh also made the list for most improved players from a eWins standpoint as well.

eW+     per36 rates    tm   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   e484  2011 Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   e484
2.82   Monroe,Greg    Det  .556   19.7  12.4   2.5   1.84      .563   12.9  10.9   1.6   1.13
2.74   Mullens,Byron  Cha  .473   14.4   8.2   1.1    .97  Okl .357    6.8   8.8    .0   -.06
2.67   Gortat,Marcin  Phx  .578   19.0  11.6   1.0   1.81      .584   14.3  10.9   1.2   1.15
2.61   Lin,Jeremy     NYK  .540   21.4   4.3   9.0   1.73  GSW .450    6.8   3.5   4.1    .39
2.58   Pekovic,Nikola Min  .596   19.2   9.7    .9   1.39      .561   12.6   7.3    .9    .29

2.42   Hayward,Gordon Uta  .550   14.8   4.5   3.6    .89      .568   11.1   4.1   2.2    .27
2.30 Cousins,Demarcus Sac  .488   20.3  13.3   1.8   1.94      .474   16.7  12.1   3.0   1.31
2.23   Seraphin,Kevin Was  .541   12.9   8.6    .9    .95      .474    6.6   7.4    .4   -.09
2.15   Smith,Josh     Atl  .486   21.2  10.6   4.1   2.22      .531   19.3  10.1   3.5   1.74
2.12   George,Paul    Ind  .548   16.4   7.1   3.3   1.25      .534   13.1   6.2   1.8    .68

eW+     per36 rates    tm   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   e484  2011 Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   e484
2.06   Lucas,John     Chi  .480   18.0   3.5   5.0   1.11      .250    4.0    .0   3.1   -.44
1.82  Vasquez,Greivis NOH  .518   13.4   3.9   6.2    .79  Mem .488    8.8   2.9   5.4    .22
1.80   Ilyasova,Ersan Mil  .566   17.7  11.5   1.4   1.59      .511   14.8   9.3   1.3   1.03
1.71   Jefferson,Al   Uta  .520   21.7  10.8   2.5   2.17      .522   19.4  11.0   1.9   1.75
1.61   Harrington,Al  Den  .528   18.1   8.1   1.8   1.19      .521   14.6   6.8   2.1    .73

1.57   Harden,James   Okl  .632   20.2   4.7   4.2   1.31      .583   16.4   4.2   2.8    .91
1.56   Bradley,Avery  Bos  .539   13.2   3.3   2.3    .42      .356    7.9   3.2   2.0   -.21
1.51   Pachulia,Zaza  Atl  .543   11.3  10.8   1.7    .92      .543    9.6   9.2   1.4    .47
1.51   Jack,Jarrett   NOH  .533   18.4   4.6   5.7   1.27      .494   14.3   3.7   4.5    .79
1.50   Dragic,Goran   Hou  .557   16.5   3.6   6.8   1.12      .515   13.0   3.8   5.3    .65

[ATLSmith]

I completely agree.  The Hawks really need to keep him if they can.  The Hawks need to improve in other area's, not at Josh's position.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Awesome find but you still will have those who say he's the worst player and needs to be trade.

Or how about this quote people say on here.. "If he played with a team like the Spurs he would shine under a coach like that." O_o WTF??? Well, why trade him??? Hell, get a new coach! lol

[nbasuperstar40]

Brotha2ThaNite, on 21 May 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Awesome find but you still will have those who say he's the worst player and needs to be trade.

Or how about this quote people say on here.. "If he played with a team like the Spurs he would shine under a coach like that." O_o WTF??? Well, why trade him??? Hell, get a new coach! lol

He wouldn't shine with the Squrs. They are too precised. He would shine with Nash, Wall, Curry. Basically up-tempo PG's with a lot of talent.

[ag82]

I thought we had been over this a million times already. He is an exceptional talent and will always put up good numbers. He just needs to play smarter and more consistently to be a solid go to guy (could be a #2 option) on a championship level team. For that, he is probably going to need a better coach than LD.

[AHF]

Brotha2ThaNite, on 21 May 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Or how about this quote people say on here.. "If he played with a team like the Spurs he would shine under a coach like that." O_o WTF??? Well, why trade him??? Hell, get a new coach! lol

You are preaching to the choir as far as a lot of us wanting to get someone outside of coaches he has already had for years working with him to get him to take the next step offensively and overall in his development.

[nbasuperstar40]

The issue with Atlanta is simple.
They don't fit.
Joe is an excellent all around player who isn't a #1 option.
Horford is an elite PnR PF who can't create his offense and never has had a very good or great PnR PG.
Smith is the most impactful player on the team as he is the most talented but is severely flawed and needs the right personnel or else he can be highly undervalued by coaches, scouts, and fans alike no matter what.

We got to make this fit. It will never fit with this unit but we have to make moves that make sense.

[thecampster]

nbasuperstar40, on 21 May 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

Yes, I know. I am not the biggest Josh Smith fan. But I was looking at his stats and I can help but think he is the unlucky version of Rajon Rondo. Severely flawed but extremely talented but unlike Rondo, he doesn't have the pieces around him where he needs to succeed. I can see why AHawks89 is always mad. Smoove has superstar talent. He's right, Smoove does have talent. Of course he doesn't have Hall of Fame elite talent but he could be a superstar in the same right as Rondo. Look at this:

eWins  per36 rates tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
13.9  James,Lebron   Mia   38   .593   31.0   8.6   6.7   1.8   3.4   .8   2.90
12.4  Durant,Kevin   Okl   39   .598   29.3   8.0   3.6   1.3   3.6  1.1   2.35
10.6  Smith,Josh Atl   35   .490   21.7  10.8   4.2   1.5   2.6  1.8   2.21
10.6  Griffin,Blake  LAC   36   .545   23.1  12.2   3.2 .9   2.3   .7   2.14
10.2  Howard,Dwight  Orl   38   .550   22.1  14.9   2.1   1.4   3.1  2.2   2.38

10.1  Love,Kevin Min   39   .555   25.3  12.9   1.9 .8   2.2   .5   2.27
9.7 Westbrook,Russel Okl   35   .529   26.3   5.0   6.5   1.8   3.8   .3   2.00
9.3   Jefferson,Al   Uta   34   .515   21.8  11.1   2.6 .8   1.1  1.7   2.18
9.2   Bryant,Kobe LAL   39   .517   28.6   5.3   3.9   1.1   3.4   .3   1.99
9.0   Bynum,Andrew   LAL   35   .582   21.8  12.8   1.4 .5   2.7  2.0   2.06

eWins  per36 rates tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
8.9   Paul,Chris LAC   36   .571   22.3   4.0   8.3   2.6   2.1   .1   1.97
8.9   Gasol,Pau   LAL   37   .539   18.6  10.6   3.6 .6   2.2  1.3   1.77
8.5   Nowitzki,Dirk  Dal   33   .553   26.6   7.8   2.4 .8   2.1   .6   2.01
8.2   Wade,Dwyane Mia   33   .549   28.1   6.0   5.8   1.9   3.0  1.5   2.45
8.2   Garnett,Kevin  Bos   31   .543   22.2  10.7   3.6   1.1   2.1  1.3   2.11

8.1  Anthony,Carmelo NYK   34   .515   26.7   7.3   4.5   1.3   2.9   .5   2.09
8.0 Cousins,Demarcus Sac   30   .489   21.1  13.6   1.8   1.8   3.3  1.4   2.00
8.0   Monroe,Greg Det   32   .553   19.9  12.6   2.6   1.5   2.9   .9   1.86
7.9   Millsap,Paul   Uta   33   .537   19.8  10.5   2.7   2.1   2.0   .9   1.83
7.9   Boozer,Carlos  Chi   30   .544   22.7  11.2   2.6   1.2   2.2   .4   1.97

eWins  per36 rates tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
7.9   Pierce,Paul Bos   34   .556   25.0   6.1   4.5   1.3   3.1   .5   1.84
7.9   Gortat,Marcin  Phx   32   .568   18.8  12.1   1.1 .9   1.6  1.7   1.80
7.8   Duncan,Tim SAS   28   .522   21.8  12.7   3.2 .9   2.2  2.0   2.31
7.8 Aldridge,Lamarcu Por   36   .551   23.4   8.8   2.6 .9   2.1   .8   1.88
7.7   Gasol,Marc Mem   36   .530   16.5   9.7   3.2   1.0   1.9  1.8   1.57

7.4   Parker,Tony SAS   32   .531   22.6   3.5   9.5   1.1   3.0   .1   1.86
7.3   Gay,Rudy    Mem   37   .514   20.7   6.8   2.3   1.5   2.5   .8   1.46
7.1   Bosh,Chris Mia   35   .541   21.5   9.2   2.1 .9   2.2   .8   1.71
6.9 Jennings,Brandon Mil   35   .508   20.4   3.6   5.4   1.7   2.3   .3   1.44
6.9   Hibbert,Roy Ind   30   .530   17.7  11.4   2.5 .6   2.5  2.4   1.73

eWins  per36 rates tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
6.8   Lee,David   GSW   37   .540   20.2   9.8   2.6   1.0   2.6   .4   1.56
6.8   Anderson,Ryan  Orl   32   .582   21.1   9.5   1.1   1.0   1.1   .5   1.67
6.7   Williams,Deron NJN   36   .518   21.9   3.6   8.6   1.2   4.1   .4   1.63
6.6   Noah,Joakim Chi   30   .551   15.0  12.5   3.1 .8   1.8  1.7   1.65
6.6   Granger,Danny  Ind   33   .533   22.9   5.7   2.2   1.1   2.0   .7   1.54

6.5   Johnson,Joe Atl   35   .551   22.4   4.2   4.0 .8   2.0   .2   1.47
6.4   Humphries,Kris NJN   35   .528   15.1  12.5   1.6 .9   2.1  1.3   1.43
6.1   Rose,Derrick   Chi   35   .523   27.1   3.6   8.0 .9   3.2   .7   2.17
6.1   Wall,John   Was   36   .491   16.9   4.8   6.9   1.5   4.0   .9   1.24
6.1   Jamison,Antawn Cle   33   .474   19.2   7.4   2.1 .9   1.6   .7   1.37

eWins  per36 rates tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
6.0   Ibaka,Serge Okl   27   .549   13.6  11.0 .7 .7   1.7  4.9   1.62
6.0   West,David Ind   29   .524   18.0   8.8   3.3   1.0   1.8   .9   1.50
5.8   Lawson,Ty   Den   35   .571   18.0   4.3   6.8   1.4   2.6   .1   1.33
5.8   Chandler,Tyson NYK   33   .682   14.7  11.8   1.2   1.0   1.8  1.6   1.37
5.8   Iguodala,Andre Phi   36   .527   15.0   6.5   5.0   1.8   1.9   .5   1.26

5.7   Rondo,Rajon Bos   37   .475   13.5   5.2  11.9   1.8   3.7   .1   1.41
5.6   Nash,Steve Phx   32   .617   15.8   3.7  12.4 .7   4.4   .2   1.38
5.6   Ilyasova,Ersan Mil   28   .568   18.1  11.8   1.5 .9   1.7   .9   1.62
5.5   Brand,Elton Phi   29   .516   16.5   9.5   1.9   1.3   1.4  2.2   1.54
5.5   Scola,Luis Hou   31   .519   19.5   8.3   2.7 .6   2.8   .4   1.29


Josh had 3rd highest eWins in the NBA.

Josh Smith, in the last 4 installments, rose from 8th, to 7th, to 4th, to 3rd in the league.
He wasn't even an all-star, nor has he ever been.

Players who have (since 1974) averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 reb, 3.9 ast, 1.4 stl, and 1.7 blk per game:
Kareem (3 times), Garnett (3x), Webber (twice), David Robinson, Bob Lanier, and Josh Smith this year.
The Hawks were 22nd in pace and 6th in DRtg this year.

Players with TReb% > 15.8, Ast% > 20.5, Stl% > 2, Blk% > 3.7 : Smoove this year and KG in 2004.


He lead the NBA in defensive win shares. Stayed healthy in most of all his career. 5th in Defensive rebounds. Was in the top 10 once in his career in steals. High Defensive BBIQ. Great stamina outside of last year when he was fat. Extremely athletic and always explosive. 9th in blocks and is a constant in the top 10 for blocks. Now, bad Josh is also 7th in FG attempts without someone setting up his offense. Not good at all hence the low percentages but someone has to shoot without Al and Jamal. Joe isn't going to play out of his comfort zone. Still Josh is a top tier talent. Yes he doesn't fit but we should appreciate him because in the right system and personnel grouping, he would looked at much better just like Horford and Joe would as well.




eWIns- equivalent wins. Assigning wins to players, according to their minutes and their productivity in those minutes. Called eWins, short for equivalent wins, as though all players were with average teams. Players blessed to be with elite teams, and those stuck on lousy teams are, in theory, given equivalent credit based on equivalent statistics, after scaling to team and opponent averages.
With teams having played differing numbers of games, player eWins are scaled to the 66 games their teams will play, based on their minutes so far.
eWins per 484 minutes are given, where 1.00 is NBA average productivity.

I think the problem is that people love offense and Josh is not a put the ball in the basket guy.  He is a "helps others put the ball in the basket" guy.  He is a "stops the other team from putting the ball in the basket guy".  Those 2 things are just as important as scoring but highly, highly overlooked by the casual fan.

This is also why Al is so valuable.  Al can not get his own shot as well, but shoots a better percentage and is only marginably less than Josh in the other 2 facets.  These 2 are off limits in my book, everyone else is a possibility

[sultanofatl]

Honestly, these stats are about as worthless as a velvet painting of a Whale and a Dolphin getting it on.   Look at the Olympic team.  They don't even sniff around Josh.  What does that tell you?  He is bad for team ball.  Yeah, him and bunch of scrubs he would shine, like he did when the team was all his this year for a while.

[macdaddy]

sultanofatl, on 21 May 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Honestly, these stats are about as worthless as a velvet painting of a Whale and a Dolphin getting it on.   Look at the Olympic team.  They don't even sniff around Josh.  What does that tell you?  He is bad for team ball.  Yeah, him and bunch of scrubs he would shine, like he did when the team was all his this year for a while.

Of course the team also won at a .600 clip this year.

[sultanofatl]

macdaddy, on 21 May 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Of course the team also won at a .600 clip this year.

The NBA is bad man. I would say that 50% of the league sucks.  In the East your looking at 60% of the conference being bad teams.   Even without Joe and Al, our bench had above average talent.   How did we do against the playoff field?  That tells you more.  Josh is very talented, but he stresses your team as much as he helps it.

[nbasuperstar40]

sultanofatl, on 21 May 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Honestly, these stats are about as worthless as a velvet painting of a Whale and a Dolphin getting it on.   Look at the Olympic team.  They don't even sniff around Josh.  What does that tell you?  He is bad for team ball.  Yeah, him and bunch of scrubs he would shine, like he did when the team was all his this year for a while.

His half court offensive game isn't good, in fact, it's bad. He's an up-tempo player. I know in the playoffs no matter the team it's mainly half court but not everyone can do that. Steve Nash and Amare went to the Finals as a up-tempo team.

I agree, he is not a championship player. But that doesn't means he is useless on offense. You just need the right personnel and the right system. Mainly the right personnel. The PG has to be a very good up-tempo PG. He would do extremely well with Lawson, Wall, Nash, etc.

Edited by nbasuperstar40, Today, 11:20 AM.

[nbasuperstar40]

sultanofatl, on 21 May 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

The NBA is bad man. I would say that 50% of the league sucks.  In the East your looking at 60% of the conference being bad teams.   Even without Joe and Al, our bench had above average talent.   How did we do against the playoff field?  That tells you more.  Josh is very talented, but he stresses your team as much as he helps it.

A lot of East teams suck. The only ones who missed the playoffs and is even below average is Milwaukee. The rest are terrible.

[nbasuperstar40]

To say Josh stats is useless like he is SAR is absolutely wrong. Josh has very good impact but Josh poor play in half court offensive sets probably is what gets him a lot of low looks and what not.