Diesel

No Show Joe.. Or No Show Josh.

28 posts in this topic

Somebody commented that in the playoffs Joe Johnson became No Show Joe.

So I said... What about the Playoffs... Who was the missing man?

Joe's season Averages:

18.8, 3.9, and 3.7

In our Losses in the Playoffs.

Joe -

22 pt, 5 a, 4 rebs

29, 8, and 2

9, 3, and 1

17, 2, and 1.

Josh's Season's Averages

18.8, 3.9, and 9.6

In our losses in the playoffs.

Josh-

16, 5, and 12

15, 5, and 13

18, 4, and 9

Seems to me that in the playoffs, Joe Exceeded his averages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see why you only used the losses instead of all 6 games. Joe scored 11 and 15 points in our two wins.For the playoffs, Joe averaged 17 points per game on 45.8% TS%. He put up an 11.8 PER and a .042 WS/48.For the regular season, Joe averaged a 55.7% TS%, an 18.8 PER, and a .157 WS/48.That is a huge letdown.(Josh also was worse except that he stepped up in rebounding which made his PER and WS/48 numbers 50% better than Joe's.)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to remember that Josh got injured in one game, then missed the next game. The game without Josh was an overtime game ,where Joe shot 28 times and scored 29 points (his highest scoring game in the series). He would not have gotten as many attempts if Josh were there .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why you out up stats in losses, but hey. If you're impressed by 37 and 25 percent shooting from the field and three respectively in 41 playoff minutes per, you must have the largest (and only) collection of Joe Johnson memorabilia in your home for a non-family fan. You know full well Atlanta's fan base could care less about the guy, yet you make it seem farfetched that this city hasn't embraced him and call people stupid who want him gone? Are millions of people wrong and you're right? Are the countless newspaper outlets or analysts calling for him to "step up", which he never does, totally oblivious to what theyre talking about? You can empathize and reason with people who dislike or disredard Joe because we're the majority, but it's impossible for us to see things your way because it's crystal clear his time is done. You don't mind Joe leaving under optimum circumstances and great compensation. That's ludicrous to me. I want his contract wiped clean no matter the cost simply because that's what should happen to a guy shooting 37 percent in the playoffs with a max deal. I think you're demented sometimes in your praise of Joe. That or you refuse to watch other scorers around the league who are actually great. There are a bunch. No I don't care if he's double teamed (just a simple strategy to beat us, who wouldnt?), no I don't care about what we'll replace him with, and no I don't care how many coaches rewarded him with a spot at the end of the All-Star bench for logging heavy minutes and being the next best 2 guard after the depth falls off a cliff after Wade. His contract calls for a destroy and rebuild, period. I know you're quite intelligent, why you cannot see that is beyond me.

Edited by benhillboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real selective with the stats he used. Another thing that bugged me is that Joe couldn't really slow Paul Pierce down either on top of being absolutely garbage offensively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea... that was me who said that. I still firmly believe that he disappeared because Joe Johnson is expected to be better than that. Yes, he's human , but when you are supposed to be the leader of your team and you dont speak up.....and when you shoot that percentage...I am open for debate on the subject, but I just felt he should have done better...wasnt smith playing injured too?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why you out up stats in losses, but hey. If you're impressed by 37 and 25 percent shooting from the field and three respectively in 41 playoff minutes per, you must have the largest (and only) collection of Joe Johnson memorabilia in your home for a non-family fan. You know full well Atlanta's fan base could care less about the guy, yet you make it seem farfetched that this city hasn't embraced him and call people stupid who want him gone? Are millions of people wrong and you're right? Are the countless newspaper outlets or analysts calling for him to "step up", which he never does, totally oblivious to what theyre talking about? You can empathize and reason with people who dislike or disredard Joe because we're the majority, but it's impossible for us to see things your way because it's crystal clear his time is done. You don't mind Joe leaving under optimum circumstances and great compensation. That's ludicrous to me. I want his contract wiped clean no matter the cost simply because that's what should happen to a guy shooting 37 percent in the playoffs with a max deal. I think you're demented sometimes in your praise of Joe. That or you refuse to watch other scorers around the league who are actually great. There are a bunch. No I don't care if he's double teamed (just a simple strategy to beat us, who wouldnt?), no I don't care about what we'll replace him with, and no I don't care how many coaches rewarded him with a spot at the end of the All-Star bench for logging heavy minutes and being the next best 2 guard after the depth falls off a cliff after Wade. His contract calls for a destroy and rebuild, period. I know you're quite intelligent, why you cannot see that is beyond me.

this made my dayI still cant forget that crap he said DURING that series when the magic smoked us. Grinds my gears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

of all the people we want to complain about josh smith, joe is like a dull pear of clippers. it made me sick how pearce just willed his team to a victory not being healthy himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see why you only used the losses instead of all 6 games. Joe scored 11 and 15 points in our two wins.For the playoffs, Joe averaged 17 points per game on 45.8% TS%. He put up an 11.8 PER and a .042 WS/48.For the regular season, Joe averaged a 55.7% TS%, an 18.8 PER, and a .157 WS/48.That is a huge letdown.(Josh also was worse except that he stepped up in rebounding which made his PER and WS/48 numbers 50% better than Joe's.)

I used losses because if you say somebody disappeared, you're normally not talking about in wins are you??We don't need players to step up in wins... we look for players to step up when we lose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why you out up stats in losses, but hey. If you're impressed by 37 and 25 percent shooting from the field and three respectively in 41 playoff minutes per, you must have the largest (and only) collection of Joe Johnson memorabilia in your home for a non-family fan. You know full well Atlanta's fan base could care less about the guy, yet you make it seem farfetched that this city hasn't embraced him and call people stupid who want him gone? Are millions of people wrong and you're right? Are the countless newspaper outlets or analysts calling for him to "step up", which he never does, totally oblivious to what theyre talking about? You can empathize and reason with people who dislike or disredard Joe because we're the majority, but it's impossible for us to see things your way because it's crystal clear his time is done. You don't mind Joe leaving under optimum circumstances and great compensation. That's ludicrous to me. I want his contract wiped clean no matter the cost simply because that's what should happen to a guy shooting 37 percent in the playoffs with a max deal. I think you're demented sometimes in your praise of Joe. That or you refuse to watch other scorers around the league who are actually great. There are a bunch. No I don't care if he's double teamed (just a simple strategy to beat us, who wouldnt?), no I don't care about what we'll replace him with, and no I don't care how many coaches rewarded him with a spot at the end of the All-Star bench for logging heavy minutes and being the next best 2 guard after the depth falls off a cliff after Wade. His contract calls for a destroy and rebuild, period. I know you're quite intelligent, why you cannot see that is beyond me.

Millions of people wanted Marvin Williams.. once upon a time. A crowd of stupid people are still a crowd of stupid people. What I'm saying is that Joe gets a bad rap... especially from fans like you. You talk about him not being able to carry the Hawks... Hello, when he's the only player on our team that gets a constant double team in the playoffs, how far do you expect him to carry us. What do you want a 80% FG%? About his contract. A contract doesn't get out on the court and play. Evaluate his game first and then talk about the contract. I think that there's people like yourself who would trade Joe for a bag of peanuts just so you can sit around and complain and sulk when we go from perennial playoff team to being the Charlotte Bobcats. I really think that there are some people who would rather see us with capspace for days but nobody to give it to because nobody would want to come to this wretched franchise.

WE HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE... Let me tell you how it works.

We Lose, we lose, and lose... The only thing to get excited about is another draft. ON draft night, we make a bad pick.... We look forward to the open of free agency. During FAcy, most free agents use the fact that we have money to get better offers for the team that they really want to play for. We go through coach after coach. and we lose, we lose, we lose. Then someday after many failed drafts and missed free agents, we finally claw our way out of the dungeon of the NBA.. we get within sniffing distance of the third round... and the fans start worrying more about how our CAPSPACE looks more than how we look on the court. Fans start trying to be the GM and saying we should trade this player for capspace... (that will never get us anything) than for us to try to improve a good team and go farther...

I'm not saying that Joe is any kind of savior, nor I am saying that he must stay. What I am saying is that it's down right STUPID to think that trading Joe for capspace alone is what's going to help us move forward.

Mark this thread and put it in the archives and if we do one of these hairbrained Joe johnson trades, let's see where we end up... Just like I told you with Marvin... I will say it again... It's stupid to think that a playoff team gets better by trading away it's players for Cap reasons only. #LAL ODOM and FIsher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get why you used losses as well. But neither JJ or Josh played well offensively over the whole series. Josh is predictable with his single coverage and jumpers, JJ is predicatble with his dbl coverages. Seriously, who in their right mind would dbl Josh when he is standing out there?When I say Josh hurts us on offense 100% of the time, this is what I am talking about. He does not ever draw dbl teams and his man can sag off of him and give help D most of the game. No one will ever just leave JJ open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used losses because if you say somebody disappeared, you're normally not talking about in wins are you??We don't need players to step up in wins... we look for players to step up when we lose.

Joe shot 37% for the playoffs. He had exactly 0 out of 6 games where he hit more than half his shots (even his true shooting % only went above .500 in 2 of 6). He was barely better than a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio and had 1 game out of 6 where he exceeded his normal 4 rebounds per game. He made an effort to get to the line in the first 3 games and then quit doing that in the last 3.He didn't step up at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get why you used losses as well. But neither JJ or Josh played well offensively over the whole series. Josh is predictable with his single coverage and jumpers, JJ is predicatble with his dbl coverages. Seriously, who in their right mind would dbl Josh when he is standing out there?When I say Josh hurts us on offense 100% of the time, this is what I am talking about. He does not ever draw dbl teams and his man can sag off of him and give help D most of the game. No one will ever just leave JJ open.

That's one of the most important observations. This is why I continue to say, we need a real LOW POST THREAT on this team. Somebody who must be covered or else. Teams love to see us coming because they know we have two natures:1. Jump shooting team.2. Iso Team.both are easily defended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe shot 37% for the playoffs. He had exactly 0 out of 6 games where he hit more than half his shots (even his true shooting % only went above .500 in 2 of 6). He was barely better than a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio and had 1 game out of 6 where he exceeded his normal 4 rebounds per game. He made an effort to get to the line in the first 3 games and then quit doing that in the last 3.He didn't step up at all.

But did Josh? Once you get past rebounds, Josh was nothing special also. The thing I note is that Joe didn't disappear. His scoring ppg eclipsed what he did in the regular season. Not Josh. For us to be a better playoff team, somebody has to step up.. Especially when Joe is doubled all game long.You know what make OKC so great? You get penalized for doubling their star. They have other players like Harden who will kill you for doubling Durant. What do we have when Joe gets doubled? Josh on the three point line? Edited by Diesel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But did Josh? Once you get past rebounds, Josh was nothing special also. The thing I note is that Joe didn't disappear. His scoring ppg eclipsed what he did in the regular season. Not Josh. For us to be a better playoff team, somebody has to step up.. Especially when Joe is doubled all game long.You know what make OKC so great? You get penalized for doubling their star. They have other players like Harden who will kill you for doubling Durant. What do we have when Joe gets doubled? Josh on the three point line?

Even when Josh isn't scoring, there are other positive ways he affects the game. And for the love of god, Joe was not doubled all game every game. I'm sick of people repeating that lie. Game 6 he had wide open looks all game and just wasn't hitting them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe shot 37% for the playoffs. He had exactly 0 out of 6 games where he hit more than half his shots (even his true shooting % only went above .500 in 2 of 6). He was barely better than a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio and had 1 game out of 6 where he exceeded his normal 4 rebounds per game. He made an effort to get to the line in the first 3 games and then quit doing that in the last 3.He didn't step up at all.

Sue me because I haven't double checked this to make sure I'm right but Smith shot 38%. Such a significant improvement over Joe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if we wouldn't be better off trading both of them for draft picks, 2 cokes and a bag of chips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even when Josh isn't scoring, there are other positive ways he affects the game. And for the love of god, Joe was not doubled all game every game. I'm sick of people repeating that lie. Game 6 he had wide open looks all game and just wasn't hitting them.

Yeah but Josh brings NEGATIVES to a game that Joe doesn't bring. That blow out loss... if you watch it, you see that everytime we tried to start the comeback trail, Josh would once again do something to destroy that plan. Missed Long Jumpers become run out scores. A change overall of -4 pts. Josh hasn't learned that math yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sue me because I haven't double checked this to make sure I'm right but Smith shot 38%. Such a significant improvement over Joe?

How does stating the truth about Joe's poor play translate into an endorsement of Josh's offense?Josh had a poor series offensively too - better passing than JJ but his shooting was significantly worse than JJ (not a single game > 50% ts%). He stepped up on his rebounding, which was an important plus, and his help defense was important but his offense was not a plus. Overall, the series was one where he was better than Joe (50% better ws/48 and PER) but not as good as his own regular season performance or what you want to see from him. He racked up a bunch of double-doubles but was miserable shooting the ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but Josh brings NEGATIVES to a game that Joe doesn't bring. That blow out loss... if you watch it, you see that everytime we tried to start the comeback trail, Josh would once again do something to destroy that plan. Missed Long Jumpers become run out scores. A change overall of -4 pts. Josh hasn't learned that math yet.

Lots of bad jumpers from Joe and Josh - but the Josh jumpers are the worst.In the last two games, Joe was 6-20 on long jumpers and Josh was 3-17. 7 made long jumpers and 28 missed. This is our crunch-time game plan under Larry Drew (by intention or acceptance of the same).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.