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hawkster911

Kyrie Irving to ATL - ESPN Trade Ideas

136 posts in this topic

Kyrie's only 25, and his salary isn't outrageous, but because he's not controllable beyond 2 seasons, he's not controllable within a time frame that is synced up with the rest of the roster to result in some meaningful outcome.

Moreover, we have in that same roster slot an asset that has been upward trending in a significant way, yet he's younger, and we're paying him substantially less, plus we control him for a time period that we are rationally targeting to be getting back to contending status.

Just makes more sense to hold the stock we own.

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1 hour ago, Sothron said:

To Diesel's post about Kyrie's numbers...what were his numbers before Lebron? He feasts off the attention Lebron gets. What's his numbers with no Lebron on the court? We already know Irving is a horrible defender. I know his offensive numbers go down when he is in fact "THE MAN".

21, 5, 5 shooting 43% and 36% from three.

I don't doubt that there's a Lebron effect... a Love effect too, however, his numbers wasn't that far off and he has won a three point championship... so he can really shoot. 

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11 minutes ago, sturt said:

Kyrie's only 25, and his salary isn't outrageous, but because he's not controllable beyond 2 seasons, he's not controllable within a time frame that is synced up with the rest of the roster to result in some meaningful outcome.

Moreover, we have in that same roster slot an asset that has been upward trending in a significant way, yet he's younger, and we're paying him substantially less, plus we control him for a time period that we are rationally targeting to be getting back to contending status.

Just makes more sense to hold the stock we own.

In the case where neither is outrageously paid... and Kyrie is Much much better... it doesn't make sense to hold on to Dennis. This is the problem with Hawks fans.   They don't understand that there is a window and no guarantees.  Some would rather sit around and Hope that Dennis would someday reach the level that Kyrie is already on.   We know Dennis' limitations and Kyrie is already a bigger name and a better shooter.   Going after Kyrie would change our plans from being static and wishful to being dynamic.   It's like saying.. we ought not go after Joe Johnson because we have Childress and he's progressing. 

I feel that if we made the move to go after Kyrie... we get out of the tank mindset and we start to look for pieces that can compliment his style of play. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

In the case where neither is outrageously paid... and Kyrie is Much much better... it doesn't make sense to hold on to Dennis. This is the problem with Hawks fans.   They don't understand that there is a window and no guarantees.  Some would rather sit around and Hope that Dennis would someday reach the level that Kyrie is already on.

If we're talking about a 28 year-old and a 30 year-old, that would make some sense.

Some.

You still have the problem that he's not controllable beyond 2 seasons. Speaking of problems, that's a major problem. Speaking of what some don't understand, and windows, there is only a brief window to capitalize on having Kyrie on the roster. That he is better now serves no purpose, and that, speaking of guarantees, there is no guarantee that he would be on the roster later when the rest of the roster matures.

 

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8 minutes ago, sturt said:

If we're talking about a 28 year-old and a 30 year-old, that would make some sense.

Some.

You still have the problem that he's not controllable beyond 2 seasons. Speaking of problems, that's a major problem. Speaking of what some don't understand, and windows, there is only a brief window to capitalize on having Kyrie on the roster. That he is better now serves no purpose, and that, speaking of guarantees, there is no guarantee that he would be on the roster later when the rest of the roster matures.

 

It's a gamble that i can live with.   Just because we have a 4 year deal on a mediocre PG means that we should just hold on to him and hope that he gets better.  Did we not learn anything from Marvin Williams?  How many possible trades did we pass up on Marvin Williams hoping that he would one day live up to his potential.   How many times was there a Marvin Williams report that he was showing " Flashes".   How many times did ole Duck Butt run out on the floor and make us wish that we never got rid of all the players we got rid of to make playing time and space for him?  Now we have mediocre Goldie.  Goldie is aggressive but he's not a PG.  He's not a good defender.  He doesn't shoot the three ball well.   We have a shot at bringing Kyrie to Atlanta.  Yes he's on a 2 year deal but he wants to have his own team.  So with Grant Hill as being an owner.. with a city that needs a star player who has won and who wants to take our franchise to a championship.   We're looking at contract length and saying... NAH.. let's keep the mediocre guy and HOPE that he gets better...

yea.. potential doesn't suit up. 

 

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BTW. If I'm the front office, I make the trade and bring in Kyrie just for the Buzz alone.   Kyrie can put butts into seats.  

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13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's a gamble that i can live with.

Okay. That's you. And the gamble that Schröder will continue to get better, and will be on the roster when we're good again--that's one that I can live with.

 

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20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

BTW. If I'm the front office, I make the trade and bring in Kyrie just for the Buzz alone.   Kyrie can put butts into seats.  

 

That's the biggest takeaway that's getting over looked. He'd literally be our biggest star since Nique. People would come out just to see Kyrie play, even if they didn't want to see the team as much. I don't think there's a ton of folks in a rush to see Dennis play.

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Kyrie is 1.5 yrs older than Dennis. It'd take a huge leap for Dennis to ever catch up to him. 

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2 hours ago, AHF said:

I don't get why Kyrie is pushing this now.  He is basically a free agent after two seasons.  This year he will be on a team that is a heavy favorite to make the finals and the team with the second best odds of winning a title.  

Lebron won't tell him what he is going to do and he doesn't want to get stuck?  Huh?  If LeBron bails and Kyrie doesn't want to stay in Cleveland he will be on an expiring deal which means his worst case is waiting one season and the most likely scenario is that Cleveland deals him for assets (to ensure he doesn't leave them without compensation and that they keep their pick and screw us).

How many chances do guys get to win a ring in their career?  I don't get why he wouldn't try to win a championship this season and then see where things are next summer before deciding on whether to demand a trade or not.  

This is what makes me believe this trade isn't about his future, winning, or losing. It's about attention and being the man. Which is why I wouldn't really want him here even if he did want to come. If this is his logic, then it shows a gross lack of maturity.

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31 minutes ago, Flight said:

 

That's the biggest takeaway that's getting over looked. He'd literally be our biggest star since Nique. People would come out just to see Kyrie play, even if they didn't want to see the team as much. I don't think there's a ton of folks in a rush to see Dennis play.

 

People come out to watch Melo play.

But I'd hate to have been a Knicks fan all these years.

Having a name on your team? Over-rated.

I think most of us agree, and are trying to get through to some of you panging for Kyrie.. the question isn't who do people want to come out to see play, but who can you acquire who is going to give your team optimal opportunity to do down in history as some season's champion.

If it's all about working toward a championship, Kyrie's not the best fit for where this roster is. Dennis is.


 

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9 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

People come out to watch Melo play.

But I'd hate to have been a Knicks fan all these years.

Having a name on your team? Over-rated.

I think most of us agree, and are trying to get through to some of you panging for Kyrie.. the question isn't who do people want to come out to see play, but who can you acquire who is going to give your team optimal opportunity to do down in history as some season's champion.

If it's all about working toward a championship, Kyrie's not the best fit for where this roster is. Dennis is.


 

 

I think Kyrie is a better fit for working toward a championship just do to the fact that he's had experience winning one. As far as what they do on the court I really don't think Dennis has the edge on Kyrie on anything outside of defense. Kyrie on our squad unleashed could have an Iverson/Harden type season with a new system that caters to him. 

Having a player of that stature attracts other players, which is a big difference maker in a rebuild.

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The timing does suck for this. But ATL has had trouble attracting stars of this caliber and this would be the biggest star here since 'Nique (sorry Deke and JJ). ATL is the type of town that craves a showtime star, they need it. Vick, Neon, Justice, Nique put butts in the seats and got casual fans fired up. If it was already year 3 of Colonel Schlenk's battle plan, this would be a no-brainer, you pull the trigger. Right now, you'd have to scramble to modify the plan in a way that wouldn't handcuff the team and leave it empty-handed in 2020. Intriguing prospect...

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That said I would not give up our first round pick this year especially unprotected. Probably next year too, which makes this hard to get done. 

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21 minutes ago, Flight said:

I think Kyrie is a better fit for working toward a championship just do to the fact that he's had experience winning one.

You'd control Kyrie for 2017-18 and 2018-19.

And you think we're in a position to win a championship in either of those years?

Really?

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13 minutes ago, sturt said:

You'd control Kyrie for 2017-18 and 2018-19.

And you think we're in a position to win a championship in either of those years?

Really?

Without him are we really any closer to winning won?

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Thank God this is make believe.

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I don't see Kyrie as anything other then a get mine kind of player.  He is not about winning or team play... he is actually pretty selfish.  He is about getting his stats.  He isn't a good point guard but yes he is an excellent scorer and probably one of the best penetrators(sp) in the league.  He is really a very undersized shooting guards that doesn't play a lick of d.  I don't know if he is a guy you come out for.  I don't put him in that type of player who people got to go see.  He is also going to cost a lot to get.  The cost for the return ... I just don't think it is to our advantage to pursue a guy like that.

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