buckeye242424

Throughout Kobe's entire career, he's either played with Shaq, or had Phil as a coach. Top three Center to ever play, and top three coach to ever coach, IMO. To say he hasn't accomplished anything without them is impossible, because one of them has always been present. Success has followed Shaq and Phil, just about everywhere they've gone....save Phoenix with Shaq the last couple. I don't think you can devalue Kobe's worth due to the circumstances of him always playing with a dominant center and/or having a coach like Phil. He won three rings with both...has made it to the Finals three times w/o Shaq. Granted he hasn't got that "ring" without the big man - soon to change this year IMO - but getting to the Finals in 04 and last year isn't negative. Besides, that 04 Pistons team was at the height of their dominance, and the Celtics team of last year, well, the Lakers ran into a bunch of hungry superstars without a title....the Lakers ran into a buzz saw.

No, I can't. Those are HOF coaches though, they among the best to ever coach in the league. Tough comparison's to the majority of coaches in the NBA. I dunno...just reading the excerpt from the SG got the wheels in motion for me. He made it appear to me that some pretty respectable coaches make bonehead decisions, and could be to blame for losses/elimination. Similar to how Woody is talked about around here. I've just been a Woody hater...and maybe I shouldn't be so hard on the dude.

But Mike Brown was the COY! How can someone with no offense be COY? (Heavy Sarcasm) It's just one guy's opinion...I understand, but these are coaches with teams making it deep into the playoffs. Like I mentioned earlier, is it warranted, or someone looking for the scapegoat? I've been hard on Woody, but his accomplishments as HC here are positive. As an outsider looking in, Woody has done a damn good job! I can't believe I wrote that...that's what eats at me. Maybe I should worry a little less about Woody. It seems every coach should be doing something different....

Oops...LOL. My stupid as* should have caught that one.

The coach takes the brunt of the criticism when the respected team performs poorly - nature of the beast. Biggest complaints I read around here about Woody are not making in game adjustments, lack of offensive system, and player development and rotations. I'm as gulity as anyone, I don't think Woody is the answer for this team....but my thinking is why? Am I biased because I love the Hawks and watch them every game with the same deficiencies exposed night after night w/o change? Probably. But this got me thinking.. Q: What should I have done differently? -- Mike Brown, Cleveland SG: You mean, other than come up with offensive plays or a playbook? I will never understand two things. First, why you didn't mix things up at all : throw a zone at Orlando, try a zone press (which worked really well in the regular season), go super-small when Howard was on the bench and play LeBron at center; something, anything. You just let the Magic do their thing and made no real attempt to throw them off. Perplexing. And second, why did you insist on doubling Howard and leaving their shooters open? One of the reasons I picked you to kill Orlando in my now-infamous chat was because I thought you'd use 24 (and maybe even 30) fouls on Howard, single-team him, make him score 40 points a game to beat you and stay home on their shooters. You did the opposite. I will never in a million years figure out why. It was like watching someone hitting on various female celebrities at a Hollywood party by saying, "Hi, I'm a member of the paparazzi, I have no money, and I have VD" and going down in flames over and over again but feeling like the 23rd time would be the charm. Again, perplexing. The one recurring theme in this playoffs: coaches' unwillingness to steer the ship away from the iceberg even as the "DANGER! DANGER!" sign was going off. We just covered Mike Brown. Doc Rivers played the same eight guys the exact same way in the exact same style for seven straight Orlando games; never changed a thing, never threw a curveball, never extended his bench, never did anything … and by Game 7, Orlando had the Celtics mastered. Rick Adelman played the Lakers exactly the same pre-Yao and post-Yao. Nate McMillan refused to go small against Houston or turn the tempo up and got smoked. Chicago would have beaten Boston had Vinny Del Negro gone small the whole time instead of out of desperation. And George Karl barely moved during Denver's five-quarter implosion to end the Lakers series; in fact, I think he's still standing there with his hands in his pockets looking like he just caught a whiff of a scorekeeper's fart. Is it a case of hindsight is 20/20, opinion, or are many of the coaches - limited - like we think Woody is. Could it be were just die hard fans that think we know better and are looking for excuses?

Good points. And I agree, we need to keep him unless we can get that "star" in Atlanta. Bosh, Amare are the hot names now. Any merit there, who knows....but... I'd be ok acquiring either. The only thing I'm concerned with is, who is molding Smoove? Who is attempting to teach him to play to his strengths on the court? By watching him, he's either ignoring the coaches, or head coach - an extremely slow learner - or nobody really has taken him under their wing to be a mentor to this kid. If we kept Smoove his entire career, fine...but at some point, hopefully year 6, the light has to come on for him. When it does, look out. It's something he's not going to realize on his own or he would have done it already.

Which isn't a bad course of action, IMO. Wait and see what offers he's getting, get a look at what other teams think he's worth, and go from there, we can always match. Who knows, maybe Marvin get's low-balled due to circumstances, economy/the giant class of 2010 - and we can sign him for much less than expected???

Scarlet and Gray!!! ....and navy. Good call!

This fact can't be overlooked, or stressed enough. People can look at Orlando's three point shooting as the reason they beat Cleveland, but this is only because of Howard. They double, he kicks it out, they find the open man. Wide open man. They don't double him, Howard can and did have his way with anyone one-on-one. Either one of those options don't work, they go to option three...someone drive it in and throw it off the board and let Howard get it. It's the most effective play. It's ugly, sloppy, and slightly cheap...but it works.

No...I didn't. haha. It is a little disturbing.

May put me over the top as well. I'm on my third 360, and I can sense this one is about shot too. Every time I turn it on, I'm on pins and needles waiting for the red ring of death. Think how they could change the game after 25 years if Tyson were still there. He could talk smack to Little Mac after each level jump..."I'm going to eat your children"...they could have a clip of Tyson chomping on Little Mac's ear. The possibilities are unlimited...!

Classic game! I hope they keep the same usual suspects. It wouldn't be Punch-Out without Bald Bull and SodaPopinsky!!

I was reading a column from Bill Simmons: The best thing about basketball -- really, the single best thing, what I miss over everything else combined -- is the interaction between players. I spent hundreds and hundreds of hours playing pickup in college; to this day, I can rattle off an extended list of everyone I loved playing with. Basketball is about connections. You connect with teammates, reach an advanced form of ESP with them, start moving in rhythm, and then it's magic. The more you play with someone, the better you know them. Same goes for opponents. Play with someone enough and you learn every head fake, every stutter step, everything. I played with my buddy Bish so many times in high school that we just started swallowing up each other's favored moves. That's basketball. It's like chess crossed with ballet. Horf's personality and positive attitude, winning mentality is important to this team. He is the "glue". His demeanor is a positive influence on a team that lacks this type of leadership.

LOL...yeah, that kinda narrows it down a bit... Good for Chillz. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back to the Hawks, NBA. My thought process with him is the same as Marvin (money not factoring in, leave that up to the millionaires) ....he's not going to hurt us. Chillz doesn't do anything bad on the court. He doesn't hurt the team. Add the depth....

New album?

If your referring to Woody and the offense...once again, they are correct.

I would hope he's not thinking that way, or expecting that kind of money. I would hope that JJ, or his people, realize the commitment the Hawks made to him initially with that huge contract - and respect it. Joe also has to realize the progress that this group has made, and may have to sacrifice some money in order to keep the core of the group intact. No way we give him max money, nor should he ask for it. Joe has one left year on his contract, if an extension doesn't arise this summer, we can expect another all star appearance. All fine and good, but in a world of what have you done for me lately...it would benefit the Hawks to lock him up a few more years after his poor showing vs. the Cavs.

Yup! Stay away from him. Mullins' daily hate from me is done...

If 7 "T's" gets you one game suspension....and he comes back after that one game and gets an 8th, then what happens? Does the cycle re-start after the 7th?? Just curious...

Not bad company there.... Good thread. I found myself nodding a lot at posts. Horf is not untouchable, in my eyes, but the right opportunity must arise. I don't think Gasol would be one. I'd prefer to stick with Horf between those two.

Good Questions. Varied Answers, 1. After three years in the league, I would consider the player not young anymore. Obviously, there are some stipulations. Acie is entering his third year, but I would still consider him "young" due to the amount of minutes he's played. In that regard, I would consider someone like Derrick Rose a much more seasoned vet than Acie....if that's understandable to anyone. And yes, stupid mistakes and lack of discipline should not be commonplace...Ahem...Smoove...if I'm thinking in whom you are regarding this to. 2. 3+...(with ample playing time). Starting 5 years in this league is veteran status. 3. Player growth is taking the negatives in their game, and improving on them that is within their CONTROL. I'm saying, we all know Bibby's D is a negative, but it's something out of his control. You can't stop getting older and losing speed and quickness. But, with someone like Horf...he needs to improve his post game. He comes back next year, with a couple more moves in the paint and his efficiency goes up, I'd say that's player growth. The coach has as much influence on growth as the individual does!! Or should!!!

Thank you for the insight.

Unless you're a Cavs fan, expecting 25 and 10 averages is too much of anyone.

Answer: If BJ Mullins is available at 19, who would you take instead of him. Unless we're building for 2014 - and it's still far from a guarantee - get this guy off our radar. Hell, don't put him on the map.

Worse athletically. In essence, not as good as basketball player...and I agree.