mockhawk

Quote: Quote: In this case, unless we're seriously considering bringing Al back to this team, teams are not going to overpay to get him via trade. Actually, if bringing back Al wasn't plausible as a bargaining chip before, it's certainly plausible in this new context. Quote: ...Especially teams who already have starting forwards, locked into long-term contracts, in place. I can't speak to how badly IND, GS, or DET might want Harrington, and none of us can... just that they do, and that they've evidently identified him as having enough value to pursue this in spite of their other options. Quote: The Detroit pick plus Dyess seems like a fair offer; however, I'm thinking that they'd push Dale Davis, pick, plus filler, instead. If one is willing to assume the assumptions laid out above, then Detroit would see it as beneficial to (a) replace aging low post players who have relatively large contracts and yet very little horizon left (especially Davis of course) with Foster and Batista, and (b) to gain an adequate back-up PG in Lue. Well, I guess we'll see once the dust settles. Detroit and Indy are very much money conscious; so, there will be trepidations taking on Al when they have cheaper options at starting positions already in place. GS just isn't a favorable trading partner to us (unless they're willing to package up expirings/youth), which wouldn't make much sense considering the contracts they have at the 2/3/4 already. Anyways, as mentioned, time will tell. Certainly, Al and his agent are looking forward to a massive sign and trade deal.

Quote: While that ordinarily would seem to make sense on the surface, it hasn't translated into NBA reality. Joe Johnson is case in point. One may trade one 1st round pick for another team's 3rd or 4th scoring option. Very unlikely one would trade TWO 1st round picks. And practically unheard of that one would trade TWO PLUS a former 1st round pick... and what's more, you're then going to pay the guy 12 million a year??? Why isn't that insane? Because with a SNT, a team like Atlanta is able to enter into an exlusionary bargaining position wherein, if they can meet the price of the player and of the team, they can flip the switch and have player X who, ostensibly, they have identified to be a key component to the team that they want to put on the floor. What makes this SOOOO different is that there is this triangulation effect where, different from a straight-up signing, the player who wants to command a big paycheck is beholden to his former team -- in order to achieve that max paycheck, they're going to have to be satisfied... and concurrently, it is different from a straight-up trade because the new team is beholden to the player who must be happy with what they're offering. So, this is why teams have been very satisfied to hold on to players for their final year, and to do SNTs... they can be very profitable after all. The crisis that a team can get into is that their player isn't #1 or #2 at their position in the market, and that there isn't at least one team out there that considers the FA to be that key component to add to their roster. Atlanta has at least two teams (IND and GS), and if the newest rumors are true, possibly a third team (DET), vying for Al... and were it not for the court ruling, we'd still be very much in the proverbial catbird's seat. (Should have written a disclaimer, btw... this trade like all others proposed here isn't likely to happen in any sense whatsoever, and all the more so under the new conditions, where no one appears to have an exact understanding of the court's "negotiations...already initiated" caveat.) Not sure you read closely enough, but I understand how you might have jumped to the conclusion... I never proposed the ORL 1st rounder; rather, I proposed DET's own 1st rounder. I agree that they're going to be loathe to let go of the ORL 1st rounder, period. Joe was a restricted free agent, and Phoenix wanted him back. So, there is a difference there. In this case, unless we're seriously considering bringing Al back to this team, teams are not going to overpay to get him via trade. Especially teams who already have starting forwards, locked into long-term contracts, in place. The Detroit pick plus Dyess seems like a fair offer; however, I'm thinking that they'd push Dale Davis, pick, plus filler, instead. Once again, depends how many teams in the mix, and how much flexibility we have taking on contract. Personally, my expectations of getting anywhere close to equal value here aren't high. btw, I wasn't pointing you out as saying we'd get the ORL 1st. It was mentioned above, amongst a few other trade ideas that I was arguing against.

Quote: 18 points and 6 rebounds @ age 26 does not equate to a "mediocre 1st or a serviceable starter/6th man." McD has long ago seen his best years pass, and he's always been an injury risk. In fact, I was thinking the reaction might be that Indiana -- the actual recipient of Harrington in this trade -- isn't giving up enough. I think you're forgetting the fact that Al is a free agent. You won't get equivalent value in a sign and trade for him... it's that simple. If both Al and our management know he won't be back, other teams know that we aren't in a position to be tough negotiators. Toronto could come in and offer Al a contract for all we know [meaning he leaves for nothing]. As far as McDyess' value... it's in the eye of the beholder. Dyess is a valuable 6th man on their roster, who is familiar with their system and content in a backup role. They don't add quality assets (like the ORL 1st) for a minor upgrade, while adding contract in the meantime. Doesn't make sense.

Quote: You forgot about Bogut at the 5 that's why they're trying their hardest to trade Magloire Of course Magloire is on the block. That doesn't mean that they trade a decent expiring contract plus a 1st for Al when they already have their starting 5 in place, with Simmons locked up long-term at the 3. If it was Magloire for Al straight-up, then it is more plausible. But I don't see them giving up much for Al. Doesn't make sense to throw money for a backup 3/4, or to send one of Simmons or Charlie to the bench.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...ts/14998579.htm Kawakami: Harrington a good bet for Warriors Tim Kawakami Mercury News LAS VEGAS - If I wanted to bet big on a hunch, I'd circle Al Harrington's name in bright ink and prophesy a Warriors news conference by the middle of this week. I'd plop the free-agent combo forward -- and former Indiana Pacers teammate of Warriors chief Chris Mullin -- right into the Warriors' starting lineup as an instant point producer and tempo-changer. And I'd leave the minor niggling details, such as how the deal exactly unfolds and how many millions it will cost, up to Mullin and others to debate and conclude. If I lost myself to Casino Fever, I'd tap into the signs and suggestions percolating at courtside of the Vegas Summer League and I'd risk a bold, high-roller's proclamation. Hey, wait, I'm here anyway, so let's take a shot: The Warriors appear to be reasonably close to acquiring Harrington from Atlanta in a sign-and-trade deal, though weird complications can always obliterate such a transaction. ``Give us a few days,'' Mullin said when I asked him in general about the likelihood of any deal in the near future. I'm not waiting. Not my nature. Just deal the cards! Of course, I must warn that Harrington isn't the A-plus low-post monster the Warriors have been missing and chasing for years and that, because the Warriors are over the salary cap, his acquisition probably will cause the departure of Troy Murphy or Mickael Pietrus or both in the deal. Some will weep more than others over those last two names. But the 6-foot-9 Harrington is an accomplished, slashing scorer (18.6 points per game last season) perfectly fit for this NBA Dribblers Era, a decent rebounder (6.9) and he's still only 26. (He's an eight-year NBA veteran, but he's only a few months older than Murphy.) Harrington is a career 45.2-percent shooter, which doesn't seem great unless you compare it to what the Warriors' top six scorers shot last season: Jason Richardson (44.6 percent), Baron Davis (38.9), Murphy (43.3), Derek Fisher (41.0), Mike Dunleavy (40.6) and Pietrus (40.4). And Harrington might not be excruciatingly expensive to sign and acquire, since Atlanta is frozen in a bitter ownership dispute, since Indiana wants him but also has Danny Granger, and since many tall forwards have recently changed hands and it is no longer a seller's market. With Fisher already traded to Utah as a prelude, this is what the Warriors' roster looks like if you add Harrington and subtract Murphy and Pietrus, which is the worst-case scenario: Center -- Patrick O'Bryant, Andris Biedrins and Adonal Foyle. Power forward -- Ike Diogu, Chris Taft and maybe Zarko Cabarkapa. Small forward -- Al Harrington, Mike Dunleavy and Devin Brown. Shooting guard -- Jason Richardson and Monta Ellis. Point guard -- Baron Davis, Will Bynum and Keith McLeod. Plus, Harrington, Dunleavy and possibly Biedrins can play power forward, Dunleavy and possibly Ellis can back up the point and Richardson can play some forward. If this deal does happen, that's as balanced a roster as the Warriors have had in over a decade, with plenty of room to grow. OK, if O'Bryant continues to struggle as a rebounder (three total rebounds in two summer games) and because Diogu is no sure thing, there are still problems inside. Unless Harrington unleashes unknown levels of personal defensive ferocity, the Warriors still will have difficulty preventing the other side from scoring at great frequency. And it all still rides on Davis, who may or may not be worth the ride. It's not a guaranteed playoff roster, and the disappearance of Murphy and/or Pietrus could hurt the Warriors' dreams of landing Kevin Garnett when and if the Minnesota superstar truly hits the trade block. But the Warriors can't wait around forever for Garnett, and they won't. That's what this summer is about: Moving ahead. The true benefit of trading Fisher, beyond the future salary space it provides for Harrington's potential big contract, is that it forces Coach Mike Montgomery to depend on Ellis. In the same way, moving Murphy in this deal, in addition to adding an athletic scoring forward, will forcibly prompt Montgomery to play Diogu and to experiment with Dunleavy at multiple positions. For all those reasons, I expect this to happen and guarantee many years of ridicule if it doesn't. So I could be quiet and wait for an official announcement, but what's Vegas about that?

I think we're overrating Al's value in a sign and trade. Dyess plus a 1st (especially the Orlando 1st) is not going to happen. Hell, I don't think they'd bite if it was that ORL 1st plus filler. I'd expect Al's value to be equivalent to a mediocre 1st or a serviceable starter/6th man. No chance for Magloire plus a 1st (IMO) - they have Simmons signed long-term at the 3, and just traded for Villanueva at the 4. Makes no sense for them to do that type of a deal. Can't see Indy giving up their starting point guard, despite his poor contract, plus another asset like Foster. Those are two positions of need for that roster. I just don't think the demand for Al is all that high, and I don't see many teams throwing us a bone and handing over a tonne of value via a sign and trade.

No LeBron, no Hughes.

Ummm... so if we win tomorrow and the Raps lose versus Chicago (which is likely), we tie them in the standings? Which means, there's a coin flip to determine who gets the extra lottery ball? Yeah, no more winning thank you.

Anyone know?