Sothron

If this holdup has nothing to do with a separate trade for Magloire and is just about the Hawks owners wanting money instead of actual talent to help the team win...wow. I've defended the Spirit group religiously in the past but that would be the most shameful act of any Atlanta ownership in city history. Not even the cheap as hell Smith family that used to own the Falcons were that blatant about wanting money over talent.

I hope the money is just a smokescreen for a second deal being worked on.

I agree with that 100%. I wanted Deng or Iggy (in that order) instead of Childress and I really, really, really wanted Deron Williams on this team instead of Marvin. If we had Deng/Deron right now I think our team would be either in the playoffs or had just missed it last season.

Too bad we'll never know what might have happened.

There's no way Marvin scores only 10 points with starter's minutes. If he did that then I will be coming down on him like the hammer of God. I sincerely doubt he's going to score only 10 points a game with starter's minutes.

If we could get Magloire for just Salim I would give BK some serious dap on that.

The only person offering weak reasoning is you, sunshine.

I don't think I said Marvin was physically weak. I believe I said at 19 he hasn't reached his body's potential. Do you disagree with that? Are you actually going to sit there and try and convince yourself, let alone the rest of us, that a 23 year old isn't more developed than a 19 year old?

Every single scouting blurb and blurb from Knight and Woodson is that Shellhead Williams is the MOST ready player in that draft to come out and help a team. Not only is he four years older than Marvin he started all four years at Duke. Marvin had one year as a 6th man at UNC. The expectation level for Shellhead is going to be a LOT higher than Marvin because we are only asking him to rebound, play interior D and score some scrub points.

If he can't do that within his rookie season and be a 24 year old after the season then yeah, I think we have to hold him to a higher degree than Marvin.

lol not at all. I PNPed Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance in the D&D worlds, RIFTS, Robotech, Call of Cthulhu and had a blast getting into the characters. It was fun.

A 23 year old with 4 years of starting in a body that is already peaked out versus a 19 year old w/only 1 year of college and still growing into his body and his potential? Of course you expect more out of the 23 year old. I'm not "babying" Marvin. I expect to see the drive and aggression from Marvin carry over into the season from the SL. If he doesn't progess much this season with expanded minutes and a role with the team, sure, I'll criticize him.

I don't play favorites and slavishly insist that someone is either a keeper or some bum we never should put a jersey on.

My sarcasm meter is in the shop. Please tell me if this would register on it if it was working properly?

I didn't want to say anything but I have to agree with that. Why bother to interact with others if nothing they say interests you?

Since some of you here have never seen the kid play here ya go:

and

I would love to pry this kid from Golden State. He's stuck on a team that doesn't seem to want to give him minutes to develop and he's got a huge ceiling in terms of growth.

Hey Ron, didn't you say you're reserving your judgement?

See, what I see as extremely hypocritical here on HS and probably on RGM is that people are quick to jump on a guy who says that we should have standards for Marvin.. however, they applaud each other for saying the exact same thing about Shelden.

It's like you can judge Shelden, but Marvin has eternity before he can be judged.

My point is use the same standard with both guys.

Isn't it hypocritical for you to say that anyone who calls Marvin a Bust after 1 year is wrong and then have ~80% of the board calling Shelden a bust before he ever plays in his first NBA game?

All I see here on HS is Hypocrites.

I agree that Speedy isn't what I would call major but there wasn't much of anything as a FA this year.

I'm not judging Shellhead until after his rookie season. He is the kind of the player that's supposed to be ready out of the box and good to go with his skillset. If he can't play defense/rebound etc as a rookie and its because of athletic ability then that's it. He won't get much better if its physical limitations.

I'm hoping he comes out and plays well since he's a Hawk. Some of the posters here who hate certain players (Walt, Diesel) need to realize we actually DO need these guys to play well in order to win a title. Call me crazy but I'd rather eat crow calling Shellhead a bust in the making and being proved WRONG than calling him or Marvin or whoever a bust and being proved RIGHT on some internet message board.

But hey, what do I know. Maybe Jesus gives you special cool points on a big chalkboard if you guess a guy is a bust or not that your team drafted.

There was no way ET would have left the Clip show. He's got his last contract for his last two years in the NBA and he's on a team that has a shot. Why spend your last two years on a rebuilding team versus a contender?

Let's be honest here. If Shellhead Williams is a bust or was obviously not the player we thought he would be (BK at least) and Foye and Roy go on to have great rookie seasons this will be a bad decision by Knight. He didn't even work the guy out before drafting him.

Chad Ford, who I might add used to run Sportstalk.com the by FAR worst internet sports rumor site on the net which got bought out and turned into ESPN "Insider" because of the heavy traffick it got, hates Billy Knight. I am not in the slightest a BK fan but he has done some positive things to the team. Ford refuses to acknowledge any of them and simply blasts him.

I think Mr. "Insider" thought Billy would open up to him like Babcock used to do (and trust me Petey was chummy with many in the media) and he found instead a stubborn old bulldog who won't reveal any cards in his hands even to fans. BK might be an aloof prick but he's that way to everyone. Chad got his little ESPN feelings hurt and has been anti-Knight ever since then.

To be honest I do like Hollinger. He does the Pro Basketball Prospectus every year and its a truly great read for NBA and NBA players. He's like the Bill James for the NBA. I do disagree completely with him on this trade idea though.

I would not give up Smith for AI. I do not want Iverson on the Hawks. His age, his contract and the fact he needs to hold the ball the entire shotclock and chuck up a ton of shots to be effective all push me away from the table. No thank you.

The Pacers almost dealt Tinsley to Atlanta last week so who knows what they are thinking at this point. I still believe they are waiting until Aug 10 when you can trade rookie contracts. There's no other reason for the deal to be held up like this.

Nope which is a shame, I was a pen and paper roleplayer for many years in the 80's and 90's. From what I heard about DDO it was so not my kind of game: only one city, no crafting, you MUST group in order to do anything, no real world to explore just instanced quests, etc. Not my cup of tea. I like being able to solo or duo (my wife plays MMOs with me) and explore a world and have PVP as an option. PVP is so much more fun and challenging than just beating up Random Orc 312278738 that never changes what it does.

I played WoW until recently. I have played MMORPGs since Ultima Online went live over ten years ago. I played Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, City of Heroes...just about every major MMO except Anarchy Online heh.

I stopped playing WoW when I got tired of spending all of my freetime stuck in a treadmill just to try and stay competitive with the uber gear whores in PVP. Screw that. I am waiting for Warhammer Online and Age of Conan, mostly Warhammer, which should be much better PVP games.

That minus fifty DKP audio clip is hilarious. I remember when that first came out. More dots, more dots, more dots! Hit it like you mean it! lol I still love that one.

I'm not sure what part of "he had no real TEAM" to work with was hard to understand. That entire roster was built of ballhogs or slashers or a token low post player. It was built to sell jerseys not to win games. This year's team is a much more complete TEAM in that it has role players who excel at various aspects of the game and has people who can actually shoot from 18 feet out and not kill you.

Our last Olympic team was poorly put together. We didn't have any "glue" players like a Battier or a defensive specialist like Bowen or ANY kind of shooters like JJ/Hinrich who can just flat out shoot. Instead we had to rely on Richard freaking Jefferson to reliably knock down a 18 foot jump shot because they simply collapsed a zone defense on Duncan when he got the ball or they used zone to stop dribble penetration.

That team was put together like a Yahoo fantasy roto league and it showed. This team is already much more complete regardless of what it does. I blame Brown for not even giving the young guys on that team a chance but he didn't have a real team to work with either.

I think Marvin is going to be our #2 guy by the end of the season.

Bring back the Pac Man logo! Nothing has ever been as good as that.