archie_otu

Quote: Vick is gone, plain and simple. So who cares about him any more ? He has been exposed as the piece of trash many of us suspected he was from the long history of hrmmm.........unfortunate incidents surrounding Vick over the past few years. Lets move past Vick and discuss the whole situation's salary cap implication on the Falcons. If you dont care about him, why did you bring him up in the first place?

Quote: I don't know if it is too late. The Mets have had every opportunity to put the Braves away this season with the way the Braves have played, and they still are only 4 games ahead of the Braves. The Mets and Braves still have several games between each other as well, and the Braves have controlled that series so far this year. Adding Tex to the line up gives the Braves a line up that is arguably the best in the national league, and that may be a spark they need. However, I do agree with you that a deal for a starting pitcher is a must. Even if we can make a run and get into the playoffs with Chuck James as the #3 guy and Buddy Carlyle as the #4 guy, we won't make much noise in the playoffs having to count on those two. Adding Bronson Arroyo would allow the Braves to shift both down a slot, meaning that when they go to the 4 man rotation in the playoffs, they won't have to count on Buddy Carlyle. Buddy has pitched well, but how many actually expect him to continue this? This team actually needs a guy like Arroyo more than they needed Tex, IMO. At least the team had the option of putting Salty at 1B. You might be the only person in America who thinks that the Braves needed Arroyo more than Tex. We had the worst set of first basemen in baseball. You can't just move Salty to 1B...this isn't Beer League softball...Tex is a two-time Silver Slugger and Gold Glove winner. He's one of the most complete and consistent players in all of baseball...he does everything well...switch hits, hits for power and average, and plays great defense. Meanwhile, Arroyo is 4-11...Smoltz, Hudson, James, and Carlyle all have better ERA's than him.

Quote: I love Teixeira, and while I think we gave up too much for him, I'm still glad he's going to be a Brave. However, I don't think he will propel us into the playoffs, even with the addition of Dotel. The Braves are 55-51 (on pace for 84 wins). The Mets are 59-46 (on pace for 91 wins). If the Mets hold their pace, the Braves will need to go 36-20 (a .643 winning percentage) to tie. Now, .643 sounds reasonable, but this team is still giving up every 5th game due to incapable starting pitching. As long as we forfeit roughly 1/5 of our games, we can't win at that clip. If the Arroyo rumors have substance, we could really make a push. A starter MUST be acquired, though, if we're to have a shot. Some will remind me of the wildcard, and that's a good point, but this is a year in which it may be easier to win the division than to win the wildcard. Also, we have to consider that the Phillies, who have been on a blistering pace are now ahead of us in both races. The Braves have 9 games left against both the Mets and Phillies...they are currently 6-3 against the Mets this year. Salty is a great prospect, but what can you do with both him and McCann on the roster? The Braves have the worst production at 1st base in the majors...now they have one of the top 5 1st basemen in the National League...this trade is really a no brainer for the Braves...now they have the best lineup in the National League. The Braves are the only team in the National League to have 3 starters in the top 15 in ERA. Their pitching is not as bad as people claim it is...If Buddy Carlyle can be a consistent number 4, we're playin October baseball.

Doing a Willis /Salty deal is a no brainer...You get a guy in Willis who's 25, still in his prime, and a couple of years removed from a 22-10 regular season. Imagine him around Smoltz and Hudson on a day-to-day and how much of a better pitcher he would become...plus he has postseason experience too. The left handed Willis would add symmetry to the starting rotation... Imagine a rotation of Smoltz/Hudson/Willis/James/Carlyle... that's definitely a blast from the past.

Quote: Great argument. That's like saying Hoffa is better than Greg Oden because he's played longer. The truth is Darko had a career year last year and averaged 8 and 5. Darko is a horrible soft non defensive post player who has proved nothing. There is no GM in the league who would take Darko over Horford, even right now. So you're saying a Darko at 22 already had his "career" year...Jermaine Oneal in 2000 at the age of 22 averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds...so what that was his "career" year too..post men have the hardest time adjusting in the NBA...the last big men (that I can remember) to make an impact their rookie years were Shaq and Tim Duncan...Horford will be a rookie so I see him with similar numbers as Darko from last season (8 ppts, 5 rebs)...he'll come on by the end of the season...if you watched Darko in the playoffs, you would have seen that he finally showed glimpses of being a solid NBA big man, and that's why we he got such a big contract...because Horford is a rookie adjusting in the NBA and Darko's been in the league for a few years...Darko>Horford (right now). Quote: And Law was considered the most NBA ready. I would rather have Conley as well, but I'd rather have Horford/Law rather than Conley/Thornton. I'm not comparing Horford/Law to Conley/Thornton...I was comparing Conley and Law...i agree with you...I would rather have Horford/Law...if we could have picked up another big in free agency (like Maglore)...then I would have loved to have Conley/Thronton Quote: Only because of Gasol, not because of Darko. Out of Smith/Horford/Gasol/Darko, the LAST player picked out of the 4 would be Darko. Memphis is clearly better than us at one position, PF, and they are MUCH worse defensively all the way around. Gasol, Smith, Darko, and Horford is the order, IMO...a large reason is because Horford's a rookie. Personally, I think they have a much more balanced starting 5 than we do...a true pg, two big men, a guy who can shoot and stretch the D, and a versitile SF. Our starting 5 consists of players who aren't playing their natural position (only JJ is a true sg) Quote: I guess you're trying to make a name for yourself on this board by being Walter #2 or something, but I suggest you pick up a ball and learn something about the game first. The grass is always greener on the other side. Actually, no I'm not. I'm trying to add reason to an argument. I just hate when people make completely biased and off the wall posts. I mean it's ok to be a homer, but at least be realistic. As far as the bball skills...I went to Duke...wasnt good enough to walk on the team...I did play IM ball and we went made to the finals... When you're a hawks fan, the grass is always greener on the other side.

I voted Marvin...I'm looking for Marvin and JSmith to be one of the best forward tandems in the NBA next season.

Quote: For the record our top assist man was Speedy with 4.4 apg, a pathetic 42nd in the league. Our SG was 44th. I agree...we're the worst passing team in the league...which is why we were last in the league in ppg last season.

Quote: Quote: ...dude's not a stiff anymore, he's taller than anyone on our rostor right now.... HAHA, A brilliant example on how to prove that a player is not a stiff. I know...the guy I was arguing with uses height and wingspan to prove why one guy is a better C than another...i had to use it against him one time...:)

Quote: Lmao at Darko being better than Horford. That 8 and 5 he put up was HUGE . Law was also known as being much more NBA ready than Conley. This is simply a case of the grass being greener on the other side. One thing everyone is forgetting is defense. Smith and Horford >>>>> Gasol/Darko defensively. Miller is absolutely atrocious. For example, the Suns are arguably more talented than the Spurs, but the Spurs are so much better defensively. I hate to break it to you...Darko is better than Horford right now...you're in for a rude awakening this fall...Horford might eventually surpass him but you're crazy if you think that a rookie who was solid at FL will be better than a guy who's been in the league for 4 years...and Conley was the number one PG coming out, Law was number 2. I dont know why that concept is so hard for everyone to figure out. Conley > Law. 95% of the gms in the league would rather have Gasol/Darko (two 7'0"'s) over Smith/Horford...the 5% accounts for Billy Knight.

Quote: This is more accurate.... Conley > Acie Law (keep in mind Conley was the number one rated PG coming out...Law was number 2) Miller Marvin Williams = Rudy Gay Josh Smith Horford Griz bench > hawks bench (I'll take lowry, warrick, and stromile swift over speedy, shelden, and zaza). Griz will be battling for an 8th seed this year in a VERY difficult west. I'll take that team over our team anyday. You are one crazy troll Darko greater than Horford? Darko isn't even better than Shelden right now. And you have to be be MFin kidding me taking the Grizzlies bench because of Lowry, Warrick, and Swift. Speedy and Lue are both better than him. Warrick and Swift are both less than Zaza and Shelden. Hell Solomon Jones could be as good as those two. Oh and Josh Smith would abuse Gasol off the dribble. Let's see..Horford has NEVER played an NBA game, yet you are oh so confident into believing that he's already better than Milicic who averaged 12 points in the playoffs and just got a 3 year 21 million contract from the Griz...really what are you smoking on...it's nice to be a homer, heck I'm a lifetime Hawks fan, but be reasonable...he got a big contract for a reason...dude's not a stiff anymore, he's taller than anyone on our rostor right now.... LOL at the thought of Solomon being better than Warrick...Warrick dominated at Syracuse...plus he had a solid year last year in his third year... The Hawks bench might be better than the Griz's but it's not by much...the Griz's starting five is WAY more balanced than ours...they have a true pg, a true C, a true shooter, two 7'0"'s, and a multidimensional swingman in Rudy Gay. We have a combo guard who doesn't play point, a PF who's trying to play C (Horford), an undersized C who should play PF (Williams), a PF who came into the league as a SF (JSmith), and a SF who's listed as a PF (Williams). In the East, they would be a 4 or 5 seed...in the West, they'll struggle to make the playoffs.

Quote: Quote: Griz bench > hawks bench (I'll take lowry, warrick, and stromile swift over speedy, shelden, and zaza). You will take unproven Lowry, Warrick and Swift over Chill, Shelden, Speedy and Lue?? T-Lue - 11.4 and 3.6 assist Chill - 13.0 and 6.2 reb Shell - 5.5 and 5.5 Speedy alone should be much better than Lowry if healthy. Lowry - 5 and 3 assist Warick - 12 and 5reb- he was a starter last year Swift - 7 and 4 reb I hope you were kidding! Speedy and Lue are both backup pgs...they've been backup pgs their whole career..only in ATL would these two start...they are both on the decline while Lowry career is on the rise...Speedy is nothing more than a backup pg, so that's why I would take Lowry over him. Speedy is not MUCH better than Lowry...Nash and Paul are, but not speedy. Warrick is better than Zaza right now...Swift is better than Sheldon. Chillz is the X-Factor...I mean there is a chance that the Hawks bench is better, but who cares? Look at the Griz starting five...it's better than the Hawks...it's kind of pitiful too...they've only been rebuilding for like two years while we've been rebuilding for 10 and they already have a better starting lineup than we do.

Quote: Or you have pessimistic people who think every other team is All-NBA and we have no talent even though any outsider will tell you we are one of the most talented young teams in the league Acie Law = Mike Conley Jr Joe Johnson > Mike Miller Marvin Williams = Rudy Gay Josh Smith > Darko Milic Al Horford Hawks Bench > Grizzlies Bench This is more accurate.... Conley > Acie Law (keep in mind Conley was the number one rated PG coming out...Law was number 2) Miller Marvin Williams = Rudy Gay Josh Smith Horford Griz bench > hawks bench (I'll take lowry, warrick, and stromile swift over speedy, shelden, and zaza). Griz will be battling for an 8th seed this year in a VERY difficult west. I'll take that team over our team anyday.

[quote Horford is labeled "NBA ready" because of his physicality AND his basketball IQ. He's just as mentally ready as he is physically ready. He may not be as fundamentally sound as he could be with his post skills, but he simply understands the game of basketball. He understands assignments including those of others. In other words, he won't look like a deer in the headlights. He will make an immediate impact on both ends of the floor in the post. He may not be the greatest scorer in the post but he will find open teammates including passes in the post which is a lost art. He will run the pick and roll but he won't make you cringe like Zaza when he runs it with his fluidity, ability to hit the open shot, and ability to not turn the ball over when he decides to take it to the basket. He will run the floor and score on fast breaks, and that "raw" left/right hook is still highly effective. So is his baseline spin for the easy bucket or his turnaround baseline jumper which are a couple other moves he has in his arsenal that you have underestimated. Busboy, I like Al Horford...but you're DREAMING if you think he's going to make an immediate impact for the Hawks....it's just not going to happen...impact college players who are big men like Shaq and Tim Duncan make immediate impacts...Horford was not an impactful college player...he was a very good college player, but he wasn't a game changing type of player...Horford will get into alot of foul trouble in the first half of the season...by the second half he'll settle in and he should be solid.... The only reason why I dont like Horford is because he's a POWER FORWARD prospect...him and Jsmith can't coexist unless Jsmith improves his perimeter game (which currently he's not). Horford and SWilliams could make a very bruising 4 and 5 with MWilliams at the 3. Then Law and JJ can just jack up shots for most of the game. But JSmith and Horford are essentially playing the same position...who's going to give in? Sticking Horford at C will have similar disastrous effects as putting SWilliams at PF. Who knows they could prove me wrong...we have alot of depth though...Horford can come in the game, play like 10 minutes, pick up about 2 fouls...then JSmoove can come back in the game.

Quote: Since we love to bump previous posts of posters after a season (Walter) How about we keep our thoughts here If you think Horford is a bum, who will be a role player and not better than Shelden. Let it be known now. So there will be no backtracking later Personally I think he was the most NBA ready pick in the top 5 and will have a better season than other highly touted players in Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, and Yi Jianlian in efficiency. IMO the only player in the top 10 who has a chance to have a more efficient season is Brandan Wright because he's absolutely perfect for that GS team, but if he doesn't start he won't either. So I project that Horford will A)Prove that he can play Center B)Prove that you don't need a 6'11 or 7 foot player in your frontcourt C)Will be the most efficient rookie in the draft next season I couldn't disagree with you more here. Horford was labeled as the most "NBA ready" because physically he was the most dominant player coming out. It wasn't because of his skillset...it was because of his physique. Kevin Durant will be the rookie of the year...he'll average 20+ points per game. Wright will have a hard time because he doesnt have a shot outside of 8 feet plus he's already playing with Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, etc so he won't get too many shots. Plus he's still a project. Horford's biggest weakness is his footwork. All great low post scorers have unbeliveable footwork, and right now Horford doesn't have that. He has very raw post up moves (two moves...right handed and left handed hook). He'll be in foul trouble alot during the early moments because he's overly aggressive. Law will have more success early on (IMO, he has the better chance of making the All-Rookie team) than Horford.

Quote: Quote: You list a "profile" on Shelden and only take it from the weakness section. Could you be any more of a biased douchebag? The answer, no. http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=18 Instead of petty insults, look at the point that I BOLDED in the first profile and have BOLDED IN EVERY PROFILE. I only BOLDED the negative for Horford. The point is that when you look at Horford's negatives there are no physical limitations listed on any profile, even the most critical profile. However when you look at Shelden Williams they say 1)He's robotic in nature 2)Can't create outside set plays 3)He is poor at running the floor 4)He's a ROLE PLAYER in every sense of the road Whether you admit it or not that is a pretty big difference from that of Horford I agree completly Busboy...you guys are crazy for trying to compare Shelden Williams to Horford. Williams was the one of the greatest defensive centers in college basketball and very solid low post player coming out of Duke (18 ppg, 10 rpg, 3.8 blg, first team All American). However he was a very undersized C prospect which is why he was just the 8th or 9th top prospect in a very weak draft. So the Hawks tried to stick him at PF. It took Woodson the whole season to figure out that Williams is naturally a C so you can't expect him to play a PF once he made it to the NBA. However, Horford is the third best prospect out of a very strong draft because he's the protypical PF. He can run the floor, he's a big body, has a nice perimeter game, etc. He's not the best in the paint or with his bag to the basket, however his speed, agility and athleticism makes him the perfect PF to compliment a potent low post scorer. Look for Woodson to play Horford at C and take a whole season to figure out that his natural position at PF. Completely different situation...one guy is a natural C who was drafted to play PF...another is a natural PF who was drafted to play C