RedDawg#8

"Friskiness" Heard lol

That can't be right. You don't go from MLK to that. The other teams don't look right either

I can see all of this, especially considering you said Steph wanted them to trade for Cam. It all makes sense, these agencies have agendas a lot of times that we never hear about.

We better at least get 10 non-NBA TV Games next year. We crushed the ratings in the playoffs, Trae is MONEY on TV. We already have the Knicks and Mavs, my guess is they want to show us versus: Nets, Bucks, Sixers, Heat, Boston, and maybe Chicago from the East, as well as Lakers, Suns, Warriors from the West.

Not including NBA TV games we had 3, the Warriors game was on ESPN as well. We had 7 NBA TV games, 2 ESPN, 1 TNT in the regular season.

When we speak potential about our guys I have them like this: Trae- Superstar, potential MVP (Iverson, CP3, Dame, Curry) Cam, JJ- Star potential, but non-MVP (PG13, Blake Griffin esque) JC, Dre- All Star potential (like a Aldridge, Middleton) OO, Kev, Rife- High level Starters but never All Stars (self explanatory) Mays- High level role player (Lou Will) The thing is, if I base JJ's potential on his SL performance it's too early. But most of us think Cam can be a superstar not based on much other than what he did in High School. 90% of his time at Duke and the NBA have been decent to good, but far from star level. Maybe 2 or 3 college games, a stretch during the 2nd half of his rookie year, and 4 playoff games has he given us glimpses of what we think he can be. But still, we all see the same potential in him and his game. Even if it belies his current resume or statistical likelihood. That's how I think some feel about JJ. At least I do. The eyes don't lie. He isn't just putting up numbers against poor competition. His game literally POPs off the screen, the same as Cam. They have an "it" factor that raises their ceiling higher than guys who have done more to prove themselves in JC and Dre. My last point, I think the few who put JJ's potential over even Cam aren't that crazy, because as of now, his decision making and functional movement seems to be way ahead of where Cam was at as a rookie. He has play strength and is always on balance, similar to Dre. Potential is so subjective that there isn't a right or wrong, it's just opinion. But these guys all have a ton a talent to pair with their potential, which bodes really well for us.

The wait and see approach is always safer, but it only allows for value and demand to shrink. The clearer our picture gets as to who is a keeper and who isn't, the clearer it gets for other teams as well. They will no longer covet the guys that we want to move, and will only want the ones we should probably keep. Peak value always includes potential growth. It's what entices the buyer. Sell high Im happy keeping the group together. Im just a lot less afraid of the risk if we decide to make a move. We are loaded almost to a fault

This may upset some but honestly, having Jalen Johnson right now softens the blow for me if we do decide to trade away one of our young assets not named Trae. A trade for a superstar today would cost the contract of 1 of Gallo, Bogi, Clint or JC combined with the potential of one or 2 players like Cam, Dre, Kev, or OO. Any of those losses isn't as bad now knowing that we have another player with immense potential just waiting for a spot to open up in the rotation. Trae+ UnNamed Star +Remaining Players not traded + Jalen Johnson means we are still set up to win today, tomorrow, and beyond. I am a lot more open to a trade now than I was before the draft.

Yeah we notoriously would get Thanksgiving games. Never Christmas though

I would have still given you buckets in my Huggies lol

The NBA does such a great job of filling in offseason down time. Finals, right in to the draft, right in to Summer League, now they are leaking key schedule dates. It's like the gifts that keep on giving lol

You right! Dang, Vick jerseys were everywhere in this city

They care they just don't know how to do it lol They are lost as it relates to building a balanced/complete roster. The MOMENT Zion fell in to their laps, they should have started reshaping that team to maximize his strengths and complement his weaknesses. They are just cycling through warm bodies right now.

Christmas Games, signature shoes. Is there any doubt Trae Young is the biggest sports figure this city has had since Nique and Deion left town?

Zion is going to force a trade out of there before its all said and done. They are not doing enough to build around him and compete in the West. Their ceiling is in the 9 to 11 range. That's not going to cut it to keep him happy. Not saying we will land him, but he is not retiring with the Pels.

Ooops nevermind, I was appx 21 months old then lol

In my lifetime it is lol

Is this a joke or are we calling everything a max these days?

Agreed. I hate when they do this too.

I understand everyone's hesitation and their reasoning behind it, especially when based upon past examples and whatever. However, if I were a betting man, just based on eye-ball test alone, this class looks really talented and deep overall, more-so than others recently. We can wait 3 years before we decide it's ok to form an opinion them, and by that time we can look back on this thread and say some folks were right or wrong. I don't really need that long, I can see there is a little something different to this group. Im calling it now. Jalen Johnson will at least put up John Collins type production in the NBA at some point in his career. Situation plays a huge factor, and right now he is not in a great spot to get consistent minutes on this roster. That doesn't change my outlook on him and his talent. The only factors that can derail his potential would be injury, or some other off the court stuff. Those factors can not be predicted, so why even worry about them. Some guys just have the goods, and it doesn't take all day to recognize. Jalen's got the goods. He can play basketball. There are far less talented cats making careers in the NBA right now. Find me later when this is no longer a hot take lol

Yep, I totally deviated from the OP. My bad everyone, this reminder was for me lol

Here is the snippet about Trae and Jrue specifically, I needed justification on their reasoning, but it sounds like the list maker was a self admitted Trae hater who is both admitting he was wrong about him, as well as acknowledging that he is still holding out from including Trae in the upper echelon of stars for now. Tier 3A: Players 20-23: PLAYER TEAM TIER LAST YEAR BORD$ EPM WINS RAPM RANK Devin Booker PHX 3A 3A $35.0 6.3 50 Jrue Holiday MIL 3A 3A $34.7 9.4 19 Trae Young ATL 3A 3B $39.3 9.1 344 Zion Williamson NOP 3A 3B $37.5 10.2 77 If you’ll permit me, here’s what I wrote about Jrue Holiday when placing him in Tier 3A a year ago: For my money, the most underrated player in the NBA. Every time I have done this or a similar exercise over the last few years, Holiday jumps out as a production monster. After being a simply massive part of the Bucks’ title run in his first season with the franchise as well as being an absolute defensive terror in Team USA’s gold medal performance in the just-completed Olympics, Holiday doesn’t need me to sing his praises as if he is some underappreciated gem. It has become obvious for everyone to see. Holiday holds a strong claim to being the best defensive guard in the NBA. He was just named to the All-Defensive team for the third time, First Team for the second. For the three seasons for which NBA.com has detailed information on defensive matchups, no player (minimum 5,000 total possessions) has guarded opponents with higher average usage rates. Among players with above-average offensive loads themselves, he is one of only two players who has spent more than a third of his time on “primary” scorers with 25-plus usage rates (Dillon Brooks is the other). He has averaged at least two steals/100 possessions every season of his career. He’s not merely a defender, ranking 19th in three-year RAPM, including 21st place in offensive RAPM. This past season was the most efficient of his career, setting a career high in true shooting (59.0) alongside a career low in turnover rate — one of his main weaknesses as a player has been looseness with the ball with a career average of 4.1 turnovers/100. Though he is a very good offensive player, some of his limitations on that end are what keep in him Tier 3 instead of in the more exalted, All-NBA range of Tier 2. He’s a solid but unspectacular shooter, 35.8 percent from 3 for his career. He’s been about average in terms of knocking down uncontested 3s (39.0 percent compared to league average of around 38.5) while slightly below on contested attempts (31.4 percent). He is not quite the off-the-dribble threat as the lead guards higher up the pyramid, and though he is a very good midrange shooter — 42.3 percent on 2-pointers outside of 10 feet — his shot selection can be adventurous at times, which explains why his eFG% has only been above league average twice in his career (including last year of course). But digging too much into the numbers can obscure his fundamental ability to just make basketball plays. Single-game plus/minus is a treacherous stat to use well, but sometimes it can help paint a picture. In Game 4 of the NBA Finals, Holiday was 4-of-20 from the floor. Yet the Bucks outscored the Suns by eight with him on the floor for just under 44 minutes, a testament to his ability to influence the game. And of course, one of the indelible images of the just-completed Finals was Holiday snatching the ball from Devin Booker’s hands before lobbing to Antetokounmpo for a dunk on what was the key play in Game 5 and perhaps the entire series. • My skepticism of Trae Young has been well-established. However, at this point, it’s probably best to cut my losses, take the L and anoint him as the kind of archvillain (for fans of 29 franchises) the NBA genuinely needs. Whether it was Nate McMillan’s coaching, the natural maturation and jelling of the Hawks’ roster, a reaction to being left out of the 2021 All-Star roster galvanizing him or most likely a combination of all three, Young started to rein in some of the excesses in his game that gave pause as to his overall effectiveness. They haven’t completely vanished, but the early-clock, zero-pass, 30-foot pull-ups have decreased in frequency. While he still has a tendency to deactivate when off the ball, Young did show some willingness to use screens during the postseason. And speaking of the postseason, by far the biggest question prior to last season was whether his slight frame and, shall we say, foul-provocative game could stand up to the physical and competitive rigors of the playoffs. After Young led the Hawks to a blistering of the Knicks and a somewhat stunning upset of the Sixers, it’s safe to say those questions have been answered. Whether Young can ascend into Tier 2 will depend on a number of smaller improvements. Can he continue to refine his shot selection? Will he find ways to be slightly less of a defensive liability than his 755th place ranking (of 755!) in three-year dRAPM suggests he has been? Can he become a more effective player off the ball to allow the talents around him, such as Kevin Huerter and John Collins, to shine a little more? Having learned my lesson, I’m no longer betting against him being able to do so.

Here is the full list. Keep in mind they are ranked only in tiers and sub-tiers, not individually 1 thru 125. Names are alphabetical within each sub tier. 2021 NBA Player Tiers: The Top 125 TIER 1A: 1-3 Giannis Antetokounmpo Kevin Durant LeBron James TIER 1B: 4-7 James Harden Kawhi Leonard Nikola Jokic Stephen Curry TIER 2A: 8-10 Anthony Davis Joel Embiid Luka Doncic TIER 2B: 11-14 Damian Lillard Jimmy Butler Paul George Rudy Gobert TIER 2C: 15-19 Bam Adebayo Chris Paul Jayson Tatum Khris Middleton Kyrie Irving TIER 3A: 20-23 Devin Booker Jrue Holiday Trae Young Zion Williamson TIER 3B: 24-30 Bradley Beal Donovan Mitchell Ja Morant Jamal Murray Karl-Anthony Towns Mike Conley Shai Gilgeous-Alexander TIER 3C:31-36 Ben Simmons Draymond Green Jaylen Brown Pascal Siakam Russell Westbrook Zach LaVine TIER 4A: 37-56 Brandon Ingram CJ McCollum Clint Capela De'Aaron Fox DeMar DeRozan Domantas Sabonis Fred VanVleet Gordon Hayward Jerami Grant Joe Harris Joe Ingles Julius Randle Kemba Walker Kyle Lowry LaMelo Ball Malcolm Brogdon Myles Turner Nikola Vucevic Robert Covington Seth Curry TIER 4B: 57-79 Aaron Gordon Al Horford Bogdan Bogdanovic Bojan Bogdanovic Brook Lopez Caris LeVert Christian Wood Deandre Ayton De'Andre Hunter Derrick Rose Dillon Brooks Jae Crowder John Collins Jonas Valanciunas Jusuf Nurkic Klay Thompson Kristaps Porzingis Marcus Smart Michael Porter Jr. Mikal Bridges OG Anunoby Spencer Dinwiddie Tobias Harris TIER 5: 80-125 Alex Caruso Andrew Wiggins Anthony Edwards Blake Griffin Bruce Brown Buddy Hield Cameron Payne Collin Sexton D'Angelo Russell Danilo Gallinari Danny Green Davis Bertans Dejounte Murray Dennis Schröder Derrick White Devonte' Graham Duncan Robinson Evan Fournier Gary Trent Jr. Harrison Barnes Immanuel Quickley Ivica Zubac Jaren Jackson Jr. Jarrett Allen Jeff Green Jonathan Isaac Jordan Clarkson Kelly Olynyk Kentavious Caldwell-Pope Kevin Huerter Kyle Anderson Lonzo Ball Marcus Morris Sr. Nerlens Noel Nicolas Batum Norman Powell P.J. Washington Patrick Beverley Reggie Jackson Richaun Holmes Robert Williams III Steven Adams T.J. Warren Terry Rozier Tim Hardaway Jr. Tyrese Haliburton

Oh trust me, they still shafted us by having Trae in their 3rd tier and under a guy like Kris Middleton, but they really did a good job of showing love to Dre and Kev who most casuals wouldn't be able to speak on at all

The athletic put out an article series with the top 125 players in the NBA broken down by tiers. https://theathletic.com/2762817/2021/08/13/nba-player-tiers-lebron-james-kevin-durant-giannis-antetokounmpo-rank-atop-tier-1-as-leagues-very-best/ Here's the link and I will try to post the list for those without a subscription. But long story short, the Hawks had the most players on the list than any other team with 7 (Trae, Capela, Bogi, Dre, JC, Gallo, Kev in that order) The majority of the good/playoff teams only have 5. With the notable exception of teams like the Lakers who only had 3 (Lebron, AD, Russ) and Bucks who had 4 (Giannis, Middleton, Jrue, Lopez) but their best players are so high up on the list it carries them. For instance, they have Trae in the 3rd tier with Jrue Holiday, Donovan, Booker, etc... behind Middleton in tier 2 (overrated), and Giannis in tier 1. Our best player may not be on the same level as Lebron, KD, and Giannis who are defined as the cream of the crop. Or even Curry, Harden, Leonard, Jokic, who round out bottom of tier 1. But our aggregate talent is very high and very deep. And to think, names like Cam, OO, and Lou could be top 5 players on other teams rosters as well. Per my count, the teams with the most names were: Hawks with 7, then Utah and Pheonix with 6 each. Notice anything with those other 2 teams? They were the top 2 seeds in the West. Consolidation of assets for salary cap purposes may make fiscal sense, but there is a trend forming where aggregate talent acquisition may eventually trump this whole big 3 era as the blueprint to success. Hawks can lead that new wave. Hopefully maximizing on this window we have with the vets still around