RedDawg#8

Thats real, but when I looked back my message did seem kind of apologetic so I tried to be as objective as possible

No excuses, just observation. I will be completely honest, the more and more I watch, I am beggining to think that his most effective position is at PF, and on this team that would mean backup PF. His shooting ability is average for a SF but would be a deadly weapon for a PF. His athleticsm and rebounding arent as effective far away from the basket, but would be better served in the post. During training camp, in most of the pics he was always working with the wing players, working on shooting from the perimeter, etc. His position calls for this but his body type is that of a player that also needs to work in the post, which I rarely saw him do. I believe this is by design and not his own doing, but still for a guy who is the same height and weight as our starting PF to be looked at just a shooter really under-utilizes his stregnths. In complete bluntness we start 3 PF's together in Horf, Smoove and Marv, and the one furthest from the hoop is the one who happens to be the least effective, go figure.

Starting SF's on teams with a star ball handling 2: Lakers-Lamar Odom(30mpg)- 8.3ppg, 8.1reb Heat-Quentin Richardson(28mpg)-8 ppg, 4 reb Blazers-Martell Webster(23mpg)- 8.4ppg, 3.2 reb/ Travis Outlaw(21mpg)- 9.9 ppg, 3.4 reb Sixers-Thad Young(37mpg)- 15.5ppg, 4.9reb Kings-Fransico Garcia(26mpg)-11.4ppg, 4reb Magic-Michael Peitrus(28mpg)-10.1ppg, 3.1reb Starting SG's on teams with a star ball handling 3: Cavs-Anthony Parker(29mpg)-7.6ppg, 2.8reb Nuggets-Arron Afflalo(24mpg)- 8.2ppg, 2.7reb Pacers-Brandon Rush(27mpg)- 7.3ppg, 4.4reb Thunder-Thabo Sefolosha(32mpg)- 6ppg, 5.6reb These stats reflect how innefective players can be when having to play off the ball on the perimeter with a swingman who dominates the ball outside and inside. Basically, Marvin is on par with the other starting SF's on those teams who run their offense through SG's like Joe

Mo played great, I have always thought he was being under-valued this season. that said, just like Mo had 1 GREAT game and finshed with 22 and 9, Marv had 1 great game before too and finished 29 and 9. Marv is clearly not as consitent as the rest of our starters, which has led to his decrease in minutes, but the rare times when he is on, he can still drop 30 against a good team. Mo had a lights out night, was perfect from 3pt, and got you 20 against the worse team in the NBA. I dont think that we should look at this one game to indicate why Mo should start. When we play a Cle, Den, or somebody with a dominating 6-8+ SF, i dont want to see Mo out there getting pushed around. I am also begginning to notice trends with Marv: the more scorers we have on this team, the less aggressive he becomes. We all know that our offense dominated by ISO players (gaurds) and everyone else is just supposed to "play within the game" and get theirs. Well Marv knows he isnt as good an ISO player as Joe and Craw so he will defer, but its also harder for him to get his when Josh and Horf are under the hoop cleaning up after JJ and Craw. As for his athleticism, Josh has assumed autority as the "finisher" on fast breaks, so again, he defers despite having similar finishing ability. He stands outside the arc so much because our starting SG plays more of a SF role by ISO-ing inside the arc the majoirty of the time, which leaves Marvin on the outside. Despite being 5th on the team in scoring and Minutes, he is still 3rd in 3PT %, Rebs, and Blks and is 4th in FT attempts Honestly, if Marv decided to move around inside more, that would clog the lane with Horf and Smoove already there, limiting Joes effectiveness. By spacing the court, that allows our playmaker to move in and out and find open shooters, or his own shot. On most teams with "superstar" swingmen who dominate the ball, the pg and sg or sf stand on the outside waiting for the 3-ball and let the ball-handler work. there is no reason for 4 guys to be in the post before a shot goes up. Regardless, Marv has already been punished for his inconsistent/non-aggresive play by his reduced PT.

Just did the research. ATL, BOS, CLE, and ORL each play one another 4 times each plays the West teams twice of course.=30 games each plays 6 teams in our conference 4 times= 24 games each plays 4 teams 3 times= 12 games each plays teams in own division 4 times (2 home 2 away)= 16 games Division records (without Bos, Cle, Atl, or Orl) SE division record: 27-35, .435 Atlantic record: 25-69, .265 Central record: 35-49, .416 of the 4 non- division teams that each only plays 3 times: ATL: Ind, Mil, NJ, Phi = 24-63, .275 ORL: Chi, Mil, NJ, NY = 28-60, .318 BOS: Cha, Ind, Mia, Det = 37-47, .440 CLE: Mia, NY, Phi, Was = 31-56, .356 of the other non-division teams that each will play 4 times (excluding atl, bos, cle, and orl): ATL: Chi, Det, NY, Tor = 36-55, .395 ORL: Det, Ind, Phi, Tor = 32-58, .355 BOS: Chi, Mil, Was = 25-37, .403 CLE: Cha, Chi, NJ, = 20-46, .303 Total record and winning percentage of conference schedule (projected according to number of meetings): ATL: 324-549 = .371 ORL: 320-552 = .366 BOS: 311-565,= .355 CLE: 313-548 = .363 Analysis: Our divison even after taking away the Hawks and Magic records still has a higher winning percentage than the others without Bos or Cle. While Boston has a slightly stronger non-division schedule, they play less games against the stronger teams, we play less game against weaker teams, meaning we dont have the oppurtunity to pick up as many "cheap wins" as they do. What all this means is that Atlanta has the toughest remaining schedule, the Celtics have the weakest. This does not include games in which "the big 4" play one another since they all will see each other 4 times. This also doesnt include the west teams since each see's them twice, therefore the west record would be the same for all 4 teams in the end

Oh, well nevermind. I thought we were doing something unique lol. Either way, the rest of the Easts "elite" have much easier roads to the playoffs than us and Orlando as no only do we face each other numerous times, we still face our division more than anybody else. I think top to bottom we have the 2 best teams in the East, but it may not show record wise in the end as we will have beat up on each other throughout the year in the southeast.

I agree that Orlando is a bad matchup for us and if we can avoid them atleast until the EC Finals we will be okay. I think as long we can get the 2 or 3 seed we will be fine assuming they get the 1 seed. I honestly think the Magic are the best team in the East, but they will face a much tougher schedule against division rivals than the Celtics who are in perhaps the weakest division in the East. Boston will pick up alot more easy wins against NJ, NY, TOR and PHI than us and the Magic who will face very competitve teams in CHA, MIA, and WAS as well as each other

Its worth noting that according to both the actual standings as they are now, and your power rankings, the Southeast division would have 4 of their 5 teams (4/8 overall) in the playoffs. The Wizards arent that far off either. Thats really saying something about the talent in the southeast, I dont think 1 division alone has fielded half of their conferences playoff bracket since they expanded and re-did them as they are now.

I really hope like most of you that we are not about to repeat last years pattern: Start the season off very hot, play .500 basketball for the majority of the seson, and rely on a good stretch of games to finish out. Our next 8 games up until Christmas are very light and we SHOULD go atleast 6-2 during this stretch. If we play to our potential and play consistent we could go 8-0. Any ways, on Christmas eve we SHOULD be somewhere between 20-8 and 22-6 Chicago: 7-11 @Toronto: 9-13 New Jersey: 1-19 Memphis: 8-12 Utah: 11-8 @Chicago: 7-11 @Minnesota: 3-17 @Denver: 15-5 Only 2 teams have winning records. Utah is very beatable esp. when they are on the road. Denver will be a tough game as it as a back to back and they will be looking for revenge. We cannot continue to lose to inferior teams whether on the road or at home. This Atlanta Hawks team is better than all of those teams except maybe Denver and we are not far apart if at all. I predict 7-1, 21-7 overall

I definately think there is room for Horford. Remember last year there was only 1 center in the All-star game. I know the All-star game isnt for real but the East were destroyed because they couldnt match up to all the centers on the West squad after Dwight sat for the night. I think the coaches will try to make an effort to send at least one more center this for the East to atleast field 2 full squads position wise. I just looked at the stats and there isnt another center on a winning team in the East that compares to Horf and Howard across the board. Lopez has very good stats, but the Nets are atrocious.

its annoying because the few times we run set plays, it usually leads to good things. prime example, at the end of close games when we draw up an inbounds play, if the shot doesnt fall there usually players in position for rebounds and putbacks because everybody on the floor knows where the ball is and where its going. we rely too much on one player free-styling and the other players dont know whats about to happen with the ball so those possesions become wasted if the iso player isnt succesful. we have the talent and shooters to design plays to get guys open and knock down shots, we just lack the imagination/effort from the staff

my personal beef came with the very 1st substition of the game. Joe 0-3 from the field and Marvin was 2-2 with a 3-pointer and had just got a blocked shot and then he gets yanked for Crawford. A little later in the 2nd quarter, Evans was in and had made 2 good defensive plays back to back, but got taken out right after for Joe I think. It was Woodson who claims that a players performance will dictate his playing time but he doesnt stick to it at all. Marv has had a slow start this season, why as a head coach would you pull him that early after he opened hitting his first couple of shots and was competing on the defensive end, at the same time making our frontline smaller when we are getting beat on the glass. DOESNT MAKE SENSE Mo has been a ghost but plays hard on the defensive end everytime he's on the court, why would you take him out the game when we are down and he is making impact plays on D thats putting us in position to make a quicker comeback. He comes out, eventually the Pistons go on a 10 pt run. DOESNT MAKE SENSE How does a player get 43 minutes, despite missing 14 of 19 shots, not getting to the FT line, no steals or blocks, only 2 rebounds, 3 assists? Thats not earning ones playing time, thats being given minutes, something Woody claimed he would not do this year. Its not fair to the other players on the team who are actually playing hard and today CONTRIBUTING to be sitting on the bench and watch that kind of performance from a teamate because he "makes us better" when hes on the court. No, he makes us better when his shot is falling. When its not, he's no better than a Teague or Marvin or anybody else whose minutes he is taking away.

Its hypocritical that Woodson constantly says players "earn" their time when clearly Joe doesnt. He is still getting minutes based off of Woody's fear to trust somebody else on the roster. Since we have been winning, nobody wants to complain but as it stands, Joes minutes are steadily increasing again, and the bench's minutes are disappearing. Mo Evans hasnt even gotten much burn lately. Say what you want but giving Joe 40+ mins to FIND his jumpshot doesnt help us. Not with the potential scorers we have. When Joe has off nights, he shouldnt be finishing with over 40 mins. Let somebody else come in a try to give us a spark. Let Joe see the team from the side-line, maybe it'll help him mentally. I dont think Joe is either that good of a player or that important to us winning every game that we have to keep him on the court just so he can finish with double digits. Woody has a bad habit of falling in love with certain players to the point that when they are off, he has NO plan B. Thats why you consistently find time for your bench guys, because they are talened NBA players as well. Teague is young tho, and needs to build confidence first, that comes from the coach. Ima start calling Woody the PG killer if he manages to ruin Teague. This kid was BALLING in the preseason. Finished with a poor game against ORL, and opened the season getting the shaft. Even when he has played well, Woody has not allowed him to build any kind of momentum. Im sorry but this isnt the NFL. A player cant just come in and dominate simply because he has fresh legs. You have to let players get into a rythym. JJ starts many games cold but Woody allows him to linger on the court until his shot falls and he is an All-star and been in the league for years. Its not smart or fair to expect a ROOKIE to come off the bench and shoot lights-out on his jumpers when he hast touched the ball since pre-game warm ups. Woody's logic doesnt make since. If Teague was a 6-year vet then yeah maybe, but you have to be pro-active with your young players, help them grow, help to develop their raw skills into an NBA player.

Naw man, I been a fan since Dion Glover and Shareef were here. I never thought Woodson was a good offensive coach, and Im usually shaking my head at alot of the things he does, I simply was trying to stay on topic and not turn it into a bash Woodson issue. But honestly I feel like Teague has all the skills to do what it takes to make our offense succesful, he just isnt being utilized correctly. With his blazing speed, Teague should come in and dominate the ball, drive and kick out to Joe or Craw. But the the confidence from his teamates and coach that he recieved during the pre-season has evaporated., mainly because of poor planning. If he had been given a steady diet of minutes, even in mop up time, he wouldnt be so erratic coming in games. As it looks, we will have wasted another pick because our staff does not know how to utilize a young pg. Thats why I continue to say we have no use for a true pg, because on this team, if the pg cant consistently hit a 3, he wont get any love from Woody.

Im sorry, but yal are giving Bibby too much cred, and our team too much slack. Hopefully Woody was just caught with his pants down tonite and will gameplan better next game, but sheesh, New Orleans lost the best PG in the NBA and is playing BETTER, we can/should be able to make do without Bibby. I dare somebody to argue that Bibby is more valuable to us than Chris Paul is to the Hornets. He is literally all they have. Bibby isnt even our All-Star, we shouldnt self-destruct because he isnt in the game. Our roster without Bibby is better than NO's without Paul. New Orleans takes away that excuse from us. Chris Paul is All-World and they are surviving. Bibby is cool and all but.... i think you get my point

Man f- that. if we dont have Bibby, its Teague's job to lose. he IS our backup pg. Woody cant be afraid to stick with him. If Woody knew how to run an offense that wasnt wast 100 % dependant on gaurds scoring to be succesful, then it wouldnt matter.

I know we are all very excited about our Hawks, but I have been thinking of a pattern since before the season that seems like its going to continue. 2 years ago we were the 8th seed, last year we cut that in half as the 4th seed with 1st round homcourt advantage. Well if this natural progression continues, when all the dust clears I think we should realistically strive to capture the 2 seed this year, which would also ensure home court advantage for the 2nd round. Next year hopefully we can get the 1 seed and homecourt in the 1st 3 rounds, then the year after the we get the NBA's best record and homecourt throughout..etc Again thats: 08: 8th seed, 1st rd elimination 09: 4th seed, 2nd rd elimination 10: 2nd seed, 3rd rd elimination 11: 1st seed, elimination in Finals 12: 1st seed, Finals winners, NBA Champs!!! Now if we so happen to skip some of these steps along the way then im all for it as well

I dont wanna nit-pick but it sounds like they are going into this game too worried and will again come out tight or flat. They have to try to stay loose. Yeah respect Boston and all, but convince yourself that that you can beat them, perfect play or not. I dont like that statement about "we have to play a perfect game" because when the first hiccup comes, you already lose confidence. Boston is good but they do have a lost which means they arent perfect and can be beaten. Im tired of seeing other teams get a win on them but we kiss their a$$ to the point that we dont play to our own abilities. Lets play OUR game for a change, make those old Bastards run up and down the court til their legs fall off.

Well guys its official, I just called my director and told him I wasnt gonna make it tonight because my car broke down 30 miles away. I go to school in Nashville and never get to watch us play so I was not gonna miss this game no matter what. All I know is we had better WIN or at least keep it close until the very end or Im gonna be very upset I had to lie to watch the game. C'mon Hawks, make it worth my while!!!!

If we lose Joe, who would we most likely bring in to replace him, if anybody? I dont want to rely on Craw and without Joe we dont have any true Swingman on this roster, Evans doesnt count to me. we would need to bring in a player from 6'6 to 6'8 that is a fringe all-star at the least to replace Joe.

I hate games like this. I get super hyped that we will come and handle our business or upset but then we come out the gates slow, with no emotion and get down by 20 and cant catch up. I then have to try and get moral victory out of how close we can make the score before the game is over all the while having to listen to the announcers give praise to the other team and their coach and talk about how good we WERE before the game, but how we werent enough for so and so who is a contender. I plan on skipping my practice to see this game and I dont want to be dissappointed with a lack of heart/effort and playing scared, I want us to run, jump and play our game so I can for once enjoy the rare oppurtunity I get to watch my team on TV.

lol i think it was because I had just read some article on him and his competiveness and how much his coach liked him and I thought it was pretty cool, esp. with him being the first Israeli player in the NBA. I dunno, its hard to explain. I think the whole message was that we Crawford away for scraps, and the team started falling apart shortly after. Yeah, I dont go a single day without thinking about our team and what we do well, what we can do better, or what we can achieve etc. I used to be this way about the Falcons but not so much anymore, I still love them but im not as "IN" to them as I once was, im on here way more than their MB nowadays

More like a nightmare, we traded him for Omri Casspi and 2 unknown euro players that were probably projects. I dreamed that I came on here and we were all angry wondering how our front office could do this to us...then I woke up and laughed. I know its early but has Crawford become THAT important to our team already? I mean I love the confidence going into every game knowing we have him comin off the bench for us waiting to light a team up.

Cosign, I like swithcing better with guys who can caurd multiple positions on the court ie: Jamal and Evans, but no so much with Bibby because he cant gaurd anybody effectively man to man unless he decides to fight thru screens against point guards, but at 6-2 and not long or very fast when he ends up on anybody else its a nightmare unless they give up the ball before trying to attack him, I prefer our forwards using their length in passing lanes in a zone, and our high IQ but low energy gaurds not havin to run all over the place.

I wonder the same thing. when Chilldress was here it made much more sense cuz when he was in the line up at pg we had a line-up 1-5 of 6'8-6'10 players who were good defenders, quick and long. not anymore now, with Bibby and shorter guys like Evans and Craw coming off the bench we arent as long thus our original intention of 5 guys being able to defend every position doesnt exist anymore. we also dont have 5 strong individual defenders so we cant run a straight up man to man. its painful watchin teams shred our defense by constantly making us switch until a wide open shooter is left, or a lane opens up, or a mis-match is created. we are better off running a zone defense, with Smith on the interior of Bibbys side. thus we turn a weakness into a strength as Smoove is an awesome help defender and everytime Bibby gets beat he will have an oppurtunity to get a block. our current roster is not built for the defense we run, and it seems like Woody's tryna hold on to it because when we had the players it made him look smart as a coach when it was succesful, but now it only further exposes his lack of adjustment and ability to scheme to his players strengths, it is perhaps the laziest defensive "scheme" in the NBA. Its no longer effective for us.