TheNorthCydeRises

It's like I've said time and time again about Woody and his "love affair" with most of this fan base. He's just not going to get any credit for what he does. And expectations of him are going to be higher for him, than it would be for anybody else. I would say something real controversial on here, but I don't want to cause a firestorm. LOL @ he's a loser because he hopes we're at #4. All-Star caliber players on Orlando: Howard, Nelson, Carter All-Star caliber players on Cleveland: James, Shaq, Mo Williams All-Star caliber players on Boston: Garnett, Pierce All-Star caliber players on Atlanta: Johnson The ONLY WAY this team overtakes the "Big 3" in the East, is if guys like Smith, Horford, and Marvin ( if brought back ) play their roles at a high level every night. And JJ has to play like a SUPERSTAR, forget an all-star, in order to overtake those 3 in the East. Our weakness is the fact that our frontline is smaller than anything those other 3 teams can put up. Yet, Woody is supposed to overcome all of that. If he doesn't, he's a bad coach? I guess Crawford is going to save the day for us. I'll say this again. If Woody can get Crawford to play efficient basketball, when guys like Nelson, Isaiah, Brown, and Skiles couldn't. . . Woody deserves props from this fan base, and immeadiate 3 year extension.

The truth of the matter is that if we don't sign a big, Marvin is a guy we MUST RETAIN, because he occasionally plays the 4 at times. He's a pseudo-big for the Hawks, because of his size ( weight wise ) and his length ( wingspan ). Whenever Horford or Smoove has gone down, Marvin has always gotten minutes at the 4. Whenever they get in foul trouble, Marvin is the guy Woody calls upon. With the addition of Crawford, you could see even more Marvin at the 4 this year. Fast lineup ( if Smoove or Horford is in foul trouble ): G - Teague or Flip ( if re-signed ) G - Crawford F - JJ F - Marvin F/C - Horford or Smoove

JJBacker, that was easily one of the top 10 posts of the year so far. Excellent analysys. Explained everything clearly, without emotion. It's like I said earlier in this thread. If we lose JJ, Jamal Crawford becomes the default "go-to-guy" on this team, because he'd be the only guy on the team who could create his own shot anytime he wanted. The offer we give JJ has to be high enough so that he'll feel appreciated here. If it isn't, he becomes a UFA, and we run the risk of the T-Wolves or Nets going all out to get him. My fear though, is a Dominique-like trade next February of JJ, for some "up and coming" 2-guard, that will cost less per year than what JJ will re-sign for. Sund and the ASG may justify making the move to prevent losing JJ for nothing . . . just like Babcock did when he traded Nique.

I think the lack of immeadiate demand for Marvin may have something to do with how he views his situation out on the RFA market. I guess teams weren't willing to overpay to get him. And the two teams that I thought would get him, both made major moves involving other players ( Detroit and Toronto ). As for Flip . . watch Flip end up in Miami.

I wouldn't trade Andersen to a place he wants to go. I'm trading him for whomever brings us the best talent back to Atlanta. If that's Houston . . . fine. If it's somewhere else . . . that's fine too. Oh well. I guess Solo better prepare to sign another 1-year deal with the Hawks.

I'm like Chillz. If you left it like this, I wouldn't complain one bit. This layout is impressive. I need to create that PayPal account, so I can send you a little money. We have to have one of the top 5 NBA fan boards on the net, as far as looks. Great job as usual. I'm sure that when you get done with it, that it'll look even more impressive.

I'll even take that a step further Ex, since you don't necessarily like Horford's offensive game. If Andersen did prove to be our best low post scorer, Woody would be hard pressed to keep him out of the game. We all know the struggles that Smith and Horford have in the post. So if Andersen solved that problem, Woody would definitely play that guy . . . at the expense of BOTH Smith and Horford . . and definitely at the expense of Zaza. But like you said, you have to wonder if he even believes that he is an NBA player, if he has concerns about not getting playing time with the Hawks.

That's going to happen ANYWAY, just by the presence of Crawford here. That's why I'm so against him playing more than 25 minutes a game. He's jacking up a minimum of 12 shots next year, if not more. Smith will get his touches. But it's also important for Smith to become more active on the offensive boards to generate more chances for himself. If you add Andersen to the mix, you do have to see if he can help you offensively. Crawford is the one that has to be limited from a shot standpoint. Smoove only needs to stop falling in love with the outside shot, and become more active around the rim. And for Smith's career, he's averaged 33 minutes a game. Playing him 32 minutes, as long as he's in the game during those critical last 4 - 5 minutes, won't be a big deal at all for Smith. He's done it with Smith before. In fact, he did it when Marvin went down in March. I'm against doing it. But with the right personnel grouping ( maybe a fast lineup consisting of Flip, Crawford, Smith, Horford, and Andersen/Wilcox ) it may can work in short stretches. But if Woody wanted to make way for Andersen, moving Smoove to play SF for a few minutes is a way to do it. Once again, you talk like I'm significantly reducing Marvin's minutes. He averaged 34 last year. This year, he'll get 32 . . all at SF. For his career, Marvin has averaged 31.7 minutes/gm. LOL . . he didn't react well at all. But he got over that ish. He had no choice. Even without Andersen here, Zaza probably isn't playing more than 20 minutes/gm. Horford is our center, and will get the bulk of the minutes there. And let's keep one thing straight about Zaza. Zaza is a scrapper that crashes the boards ( usually his own misses ). But in reality, he isn't even as good as Anderson Varejao. So don't talk like he's this stud center. He's a reserve center who isn't good enough to be a starter. And if we bring in someone who is better than him, and will help us more, he's going to see his playing time cut. Zaza is only important to us, because he's the only true big man we have. Why do you think the rest of the board wants to bring in another big man? Smoove will get his time, so he won't be disgruntled. He may get disgruntled at Crawford, for jacking up all those shots though. As for Zaza, if we get a guy who is better than Zaza . . . who cares? He's a reserve center who is a fan favorite. But if he is so valued, why didn't other teams swoop in and offer him a contract more than what he got here? It wasn't a single team in the league that was willing to pay Zaza 5 million + dollars. And we didn't either. If Andersen were a CONFIDENT player, he'd have no doubt in his mind that he could get playing time on the Hawks. If he can't take some of Zaza's minutes away from him, the Hawks probably don't need him anyway. But if he came here, and he struggled offensively and defensively, you dang right he'd be buried on the bench. Let him play it safe, and stay in Europe, if he can't beat out Zaza 'friggin' Pachulia. Woody played the starters heavy minutes, because we had scrubs on the bench behind the starters, for the most part. But when those bench players played well, Woody has ALWAYS played the bench. - when Lue was a bench player, he played him - when Zaza got his head out of his arse, he played him - when Childress was the 6th man off the bench, he played him almost starter's minutes - when Mo Evans got here, he played him - when Flip proved that he was a baller, he played him, even to the extent of playing him over Bibby at the end of games. The fact is this. The guys that Woody didn't play off the bench, were the inconsistent young players that he didn't want to wait on. But even they got their shot ( Acie, Shelden, Salim ). They just couldn't consistently perform. The Hawks are at a position now, where the emphasis is on winning, not development. So the guys who Woody will play the most, are going to be the guys who will most help us win games. So if Zaza's minutes gets cut in favor of a guy who proves to be an immeadiate upgrade over Zaza ( whether it be Andersen, or Wilcox, or whomever Hawksquawk or the Hawk organization wants ) , then whoop-dee-damn-doo about Zaza's feelings about not playing. We can't please everybody on the future 15-man roster.

Fantasy land? Reduced role? What are you talking about? Part of the problem with this team, was that our top 2 guys ( namely Smith and JJ ) would play an extreme amount of minutes to begin with. Smith isn't going to complain about playing 3 less minutes a game ( from 35 minutes last year to 32 now under my distribution ), as long as he's getting touches on offense. 32 minutes is probably what he should be playing anyway, to keep him relatively fresh throughout the season. That simply means that he's out of the game for 6 minutes each half, instead of 4 1/2 minutes each half. That's not a reduced role. Zaza played 19 minutes a game last year. His playing time was dependent on how well he was playing. If he played well, he got more minutes and Horford and Smoove sat longer. If he played bad, Woody didn't waste any time with keeping him on the bench. So playing Zaza 16 minutes a game isn't much of a dip either, because he wasn't going to play 20+ minutes at center anyway, with Horford in the middle and another big man in the mix. He's a backup center playing typical backup minutes. Zaza came back not because of the playing time, but because we offered him more money . . period. From what I've seen of Andersen, he'd instantly prove his worth on offense, simply because he has a better offensive game than both Horford and Zaza right now. That's why he'd get minutes if he's brought over. What will happen, is that Andersen and Zaza will start to battle for minutes at the 5. If Andersen proved that he could be effective offensively and defensively at the 5, he would take minutes from Zaza. If Andersen has trouble with the NBA game, and couldn't beat out Zaza, guess what? Bury him on the bench. But just because Zaza re-signed with the Hawks, doesn't mean that Woody has to play him. If we bring in a guy who is better than Zaza, guess what happens to him? He gets buried on the bench or see his PT reduced significantly. If we somehow traded for a Marcus Camby, Zaza isn't seeing much minutes at all, simply because he chose to re-sign. That's why I say that if Andersen is worried about Zaza, of all people, taking playing time away from him, he's better off playing in the soft Euro league. At least we know Zaza isn't soft.

You mean like he did with Royal Ivey a few years back, when he would start him at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters? Ivey knew when he'd be in the game, and when he'd be out. Woody was actually trying to do that with Acie too . . in between the 1st-2nd quarters . . and 3rd-4th quarters.

LOL JB . . they don't understand man. They act like Teague is going to be the next Devin Harris or something. If we bring back Flip, let that guy prove he can get minutes first, before trying to develop him. Distribution of minutes, if Marvin and Flip are brought back. PG: Bibby ( 30 ) - Flip ( 10 ) - Crawford ( 8 ) G: Johnson ( 22 ) - Crawford ( 16 ) - Flip ( 10 ) F: Marvin ( 26 ) - Johnson ( 14 ) - Evans - ( 8 ) PF: Smith ( 34 ) - Horford ( 8 ) - Marvin ( 6 ) C: Horford ( 28 ) - Zaza ( 20 ) Total minutes: Johnson - 36 Horford - 36 Smith - 34 Marvin - 32 Bibby - 30 Crawford - 24 Zaza - 20 Flip - 20 Evans - 8 To get Teague on the floor, take 4 minutes away from Crawford and Flip at the point, and play Teague 8 minutes/gm to start with. Also consider taking Evans minutes away from him, in order to give Crawford and Flip their 8 minutes back. This distribution is also assuming that we don't add another big to the roster.

If he's any good, he'd get more than 15 minutes a game, and would take minutes from Horford and Smith ( probably reducing them to 30 minutes a game ) . . and may render Zaza useless. But even if he didn't, this could easily be the rotation of minutes, if we try to go 10 deep. PG: Bibby ( 30 ) . . Crawford ( 12 ) . . Teague ( 6 ) G: JJ ( 35 ) . . Crawford ( 13 ) SF: Marvin ( 32 ) . . Evans ( 8 ) . . Smith ( 8 . . which I don't like, but would experiment with ) PF: Smith ( 24 ) . . Andersen ( 16 ) . . Horford ( 8 ) C: Horford ( 24 ) . . Zaza ( 16 ) . . Andersen ( 8 ) So if the dude was any good, he could get 24 min/gm. But if he wants to play big minutes, just trade his rights to Sacramento or something.

Well damn . . . if he doesn't think he can beat out ZaZa for playing time, then keep his azz over there. If this is true, this shows that he's not much of a competitor, and expects his playing time to be handed to him. Zaza? He's worried about friggin Zaza? Keep him in Europe if that's the case. We don't need him.

I know most people won't care about this article, but it pisses me off. 1) People on this board criticized the hell out of me a few years back, when I was flat out telling some of the so-called die hard Hawk fans to go to the games and support the Hawks UNCONDITIONALLY. This pretty much supports everything that I was talking about back then. Those numbers tell you all you need to know about Atlanta. 2) We won 31 home games last year. 31. And we STILL were giving away 5,600+ tickets and couldn't even average more than $500K a game at the gate? 4+ million in Metro Atlanta . . and probably another 2 million within a 2 hour drive to Atlanta, and we have those numbers at the arena and at the gate? That's fuggin pathetic. And that was my point even back then. It's not like the Hawks have been a bad home team the past 2 years. With a home record of 56 -26 the last 2 years at home . . including 6 -3 home playoff record, you'd think that Hawks would have no problem at the gate. Yet, we STILL have to give away that many tickets and not generate a lot of revenue at the gate, because people aren't going to the games? Then people why we don't make the type of moves that other teams make? I'll say it again, and I don't if any native Atlantan gets mad at me when I say this. Atlanta is a BANDWAGON town. Anybody can support a championship caliber team, or support the team in the playoffs. The fan base needs to support it during the regular season as well. The excuse that "oh . . everybody is from somewhere else" argument can only fly for so long. The downtown crime excuse is null and void, because it's virtually non-existant during Hawk games. So if you call yourself a Hawk fan, you have to start supporting this team AT THE ARENA. There are some people on this board who do just that, and I thank them for it. I would be right alongside them for most games, if I lived in Metro ATL. Some of you others simply need to step it up, and support your favorite team at the arena by buying tickets. 3) On a purely selfish level . . . ish . . . let me get a couple of FREE TICKETS per year, if they're giving away 5,600+ anyway. I drive to ATL 5 - 10 times a year SOLELY to watch the Hawks play. And I usually get 200 LEVEL tickets when I do watch them ( $50 - $65 a pop ). And unlike most, I'm not a mere 15 - 45 minute drive from Philips Arena. LOL . . I'm 4 - 4.5 hours away from that mo-fo. I probably make it to more games, than a few of these people on this board who live in ATL. So damn . . how about passing me one or two free 100 CLUB LEVEL tickets a year, as a token of appreciation for my long distance support? I had a scalper sell me a 100 LEVEL ticket last year for the Rockets game . . for $60, because I bought it about 5 minutes before tip-off. They were easily the best seats I'd ever had at Philips. And the food on the club level side is unbelievable. Or better yet, sell me those tickets for 1/2 price, so I can still monetarily support the team. 4) If the salary cap drops as dramatically as they described ( 50 - 52 million ), with the luxury tax dropping to 61 million, we just might lose JJ for that reason alone. And it might cost us Marvin this year, without getting anyone back in return. Even if the ASG is willing to pay 65+ million in contracts now, they may balk at paying that much in the future, just to keep this core together. I live in Tennessee, so I knew exactly what the Grizzlies were going through. Those attendance and revenue numbers don't suprise me at all. That's another reason why they should lock up Allen Iverson ASAP. Even if he's not as good as he used to be, he's a box office draw nonetheless. People in Memphis may come out to see AI, especially if he can make that team competitive again. But the Hawks last season posting those kind of numbers? That's pathetic.

Correction on % of inside shots taken: - Crawford: 14% - Flip: 27% - Marvin: 34% % of drawn fouls on shots: - Crawford: 10.4% - Flip: 10.9% - Marvin: 15"4%

Correct. But that also meant that whomever was playing the 2 or the 3, was having a field day. The presence of Marvin at least makes the SF he's going up against work for his points. Mo Evans was pretty much a defensive liability in the playoffs. So it was up to JJ to not only work on offense, he had to work on defense by guarding Lebron or Wade. Instead of a size advantage, JJ may frequently go up against guys his size or bigger, if he's moved to the 3 full time. Which means you leave a poor defender like Crawford at the 2, prime to be toasted. Yes it does. Because it makes him a face-up shooter and driver, instead of a face-up shooter, driver, and post-guy. So if a team like cleveland decided to put Lebron on JJ, it takes away JJ's post up ability and ability to back a smaller guy down. Now put JJ back at the 2 with Marvin at the 3. Lebron goes to guard JJ, while JJ's man ( West ) goes to guard Marvin. Now the mismatch is in Marvin's favor. Marvin could take West off the dribble and possibly draw a foul, or post West up. Even if a shot is taken by another guy, Marvin has a rebound advantage over West. What happened, is that Marvin took 150+ three pointers last year. Marvin is clumsy going to the hole, but he still got calls when he drove to the basket. Another thing with Marvin, is that for the first time in his career, he made over 60% of his close range shots. As for the "Creawford drives" comment, that statement is proof positive that you haven't watched JC play much . . if at all. That guy drives the b-ball about as much as Bibby or Ben Gordon. JC LOVES HIS JUMPSHOT. 14% of JCs shots were inside shots. Far less than Flip's 30% and Marvin's 37%. So how did JC shoot more FTs per 36 minutes? 1) he handled the ball A LOT . . and shot the ball a lot too. 2) JC is actually very good on drawing contact on his jumpshot . . like Wade does. 3) Did I mention that he shoots a lot? In fact JC only drew a foul on 10% of his shots. I believe both Marvin and Flip were above that percentage. And that's the problrm with the Crawford backers. Most of you have never sat down and watched this dude play an actual game. You're formulating opinions on him based on stats ONLY . . . instead of using stats AND WHAT YOU SEE LIVE, to back up your opinion. @ swatguy . . . .Crawford was brought here for possibly 3 reasons: 1) to serve as a guy who can replace Flip's role off the bench, and use him to give JJ more rest. 2) to remove dead contracts ( Speedy and Law ) and replace them with a gu who could help us . . . at virtually the same price. 3) to serve as a "poor man's JJ" at least for the 2010 - 11 season, because the ASG may have no intentions of giving JJ a superstar-like contract. What I don't believe . . is that the move was made to keep from re-signing Marvin. In fact, if (3) is true, then Marvin will be needed more than ever, to help try to replace the offense we'd lose with JJ. If we bring back Marvin, JC may be easy to trade going into the 2010 season, because he'd be going into the last year of his deal. Keep Marvin at the 3, JJ at the 2, and use Jamal as the 6th man. This isn't real complicated.

And that's exactly what happened during the playoffs, when Marvin wasn't able to go at 100%. Excellent post.

Even if we renounce JJ's rights when he becomes a UFA, we're not going to have enough money to throw at any of those top tier guys. - Completely forget about Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and Amare ( not enough money to sign them because they will all get max money or close to it ) - Kobe re-upped with the Lakers - Yao may not ever play again - T-Mac is a glass window - Pierce and Dirk, to my knowledge, aren't FAs in 2010, unless they opt out - Boozer wants near max money ( which we won't be able to do ) - Milwaukee will throw Redd a huge deal that we couldn't match So at the end of the day, you're talking about only having a chance at Nash, Allen and Ginoboli . . . as JJ's replacement. Nah . . . lock up JJ asap.

Yep . . . plus, when you evaulate their jumpshooting, Vince had an NJSI of .789, while Turkoglu had a NJSI of .737 ( lower than Marvin's .754 ) Turk made his money because he has a knack of making big shots at the end of games. Vince may have a highly efficient season next year, because of Howard's presence in the middle.

Drafting Chill in lottery: C Drafting Smith: A JJ trade: A+ Passing on Paul to draft Marvin: D+ . . . progressing to a C Drafting Salim: C- . . progressing to a D Drafting Shelden because of need: C . . . progressing to an F Drafting Solo because of need: C Bibby trade: A- Drafting Horford: A Drafting Law: B . . progressing to a D Billy Knight overall GM grade: C-

Yeah . . . I forgot all about Cleveland. And say they lose LeBron. They're definitely going to be looking at a star ( or a couple of star caliber players ) to replace what Lebron did. So if they lose LeBron . . . Bosh + JJ may = LeBron, in their eyes. Of course D'Antoni with the Knicks will be like a crackhead, trying to get either Amare or JJ He put the Hawks back on the map. ( edit ) My biggest fear, is to see him traded for the same reason Nique got traded. I can see it now . . . the Hawks trading JJ for a guy like Kevin Martin and a draft pick, because he is younger. and can shoot the ball. Then Kevin gets here, and plays mediocre basketball, and no defense.

Some of you guys are really fooling yourselves, if you believe that JJ is going to be signed at or below what he is currently making. Didn't we overpay to bring JJ to Atlanta? So why don't you think that someone else won't overpay for him to go somewhere else? The entire offensive system is built around JJ's skills. You lose JJ, and Jamal Crawford becomes the Hawks new "go-to guy", because he's the only other player on the team that can get a shot anytime he wants. We lose JJ and the only way to even begin what he gave us, is to trade someone for him. We're damn sure aren't going to have any cap room in 2010. JJ is the 2nd best 2-guard in the East . . and top 5 overall. League wide, he's a top 25 player. And those guys make top dollar in this league. There is no one on the Hawks that currently has the potential to be better than JJ. And retaining him probably insures that the Hawks will be a playoff level team for a long time. Unless he gets hurt and misses significant time, a 5/80 deal is the minimum that he's going to be offered. The guy is just too versatile to receive less. He's not a one or two-dimensional player, like most guys in this league.

Why would he leave? For the same reason he left a championship contending club in Phoenix, to come to a 13-win team. The Money. I've said from the jump that the Hawks need to lock up JJ with a 5yr - 80 to 90 million dollar deal. Anything less, and he'll probably walk. And there will be teams lining up to get him and pay him big money, if he's a UFA in 2010. Don't think for one minute that teams like Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York won't be all over JJ, as soon as they see that they can't get Lebron or Wade. Minnesota especiallly, may go right after JJ from the jump. Their frontlinr is set with Jefferson and Love. They have their PG in Flynn. And they have a defensive wing player in Brewer. All they need is a versatile wing shooter/scorer to round out the starting 5. Guess who fits that description?

From the Euro basketball clips I've seen, DA does have a "back-to-the-basket" game, as well as a mid-range face-up game. DA would instantly become our best scorer in the post. ">" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="405">

Excellent post. Teague's minutes will probably hinge on if he can make things happen on offense or defense. Can he be an impact player, even while playing limited minutes? Can he do that one particular thing that he's known for ( either on offensae or defense ) as soon as he enters a game? - Shelden couldn't do it, unless he got starter's minutes. As a reserve, he played more like a tenant, than the "landlord". Would get pushed around a lot and outworked for rebounds. But most of all, he wasn't nowhere near the defensive and shot blocking force he was at Duke. - Salim couldn't do it, because the jumper was too erratic. This guy had one of the greatest shooting seasons in college history by shooting 50% FG and 50% 3FG. Yet, in the NBA, his jumper and his patented running floater was inconsistent as hell. - Law couldn't do it, because his midrange jumper was broke. That's the same guy who was 1st team all-America his senior year. The same guy that hit big shot after big shot in college. Yet, in the pros, he can't consistently make lay-ups, or shoot as well as Smoove from the outside? . People can talk all about "doghouses" and how Woody must do this or that. Please. All Woody has to do is "stay bald and die". Nothing is going to be handed to Teague. He's going to have to prove that he deserves playing time. If the Hawks bring Flip back, let he and teague battle for the 2nd string PG spot. I mean, it would be like Phil Jackson being mandated to play Adam Morrison. You have Ariza and Walton ahead of him on the depth chart, yet, management wants to develop Morrison, so they mandate that you play him? Forget that. I'd do exactly what Phil did . . and leave hil glued to the bench. If he wants PT, prove your worth in practice and in training camp. And when gametime comes, be able to do that "one thing" that you are known for . . . and make an immeadiate IMPACT when doing it. We are NOT a developing team that's trying to make it to playoff level anymore. We're one more playoff appearance from being a perennial playoff team that has a "window of opportunity" to at least get to the NBA Finals. The mentality has to change a little, when looking at the Hawks. If Teague earns playing time, that's great. If he doesn't, you let him rot on the bench, and play the players who will lead you to victory.