TheNorthCydeRises

I pretty much agree with this. Add a guy like Camby on this team, who can consistently rebound and block shots, and the frontline is much more effective. I know Zaza is a fan favorite, but he flat out kills this team on the defensive end at times, with his lack of awareness and his lack of rebounding, especially defensive rebounding. I don't trade Smoove or Horford just to put a big body in the middle. But I do bring in a big body to spell Smoove and Horford, especially in the middle of games. But Horford is way too dominant of a rebounder, to just let go for a mediocre center. And I'm not trading Smoove for a guy like Biendrins. Look at the Lakers. They have the big body in Bynum, but Lamar Odom is almost always in the game at the end, in replace of Bynum. Then Gasol slides to center. A lot of teams that have those "stiff" type centers, opt to play one of their PFs at C toward the end of games. Having said all of that, I don't know if there's really anyone available that is that much better than Zaza, unless an Okur would be available this summer ( if he opts out ). We can't LOSE Zaza, and not have a big body to replace him. Zaza does at least take up space, and battle on the offensive boards.

LOL. It's like some in this fan base acts like JJ wasn't the BIGGEST REASON for where we are right now. Like we've been in the playoffs for 5 straight years, and all of a sudden, have become stagnant and can't go no further. Yeah, JJ had a lackluster playoff stint this year. But he's STILL the main reason why we won 47 games this year, regardless of that. And he's part of the reason why we got past Miami in Round 1. NJ . . what will happen in 2010, is a domino effect. That effect will definitely take place if either Wade leaves Miami or if LeBron leaves Cleveland. If either or both of those things happen, you're going to see a straight up bidding war to replace those players in those respective cities, with lesser star quality players. You may not see ANY MOVEMENT from teams, until either LeBron and/or Wade's fate is determined. Once one of them moves, all hell will break loose. Here's the facts folks. JJ will be one of the top 5 - 7 guys sought after in 2010. If you think otherwise, you better go look at who is on that potential list that summer. After LeBron, Wade, and possibly Bosh and Amare ( if they opt out ), JJ will be the guy people will go after. If Wade leaves Miami, do people NOT THINK that the Heat will go all out to replace Wade with a guy like JJ? The same goes for Cleveland, if they lost LeBron. You lose a major star like that on a team, you HAVE to replace him with another star caliber player. Even if that player isn't nearly as talented as the star you lost. JJ may want to win . . . but will he turn down a contract that is 15 - 20 million more than what a "contender" type team will give him? If Minnesota has the money to give him a 5 yr - 95 mill contract, do people think that JJ will turn that down, to play for 5 yr - 75 million, to stay in Atlanta? REMEMBER FOLKS . . WE WERE THE ONE TO "OVERPAY" FOR JJ BACK IN 2005 . . AND GIVE HIM A 5/70 DEAL . . AND PAY HIM ALL OF THAT MONEY UPFRONT . . JUST TO GET HIM TO ATLANTA . . WHEN HE WAS VIEWED AS MERELY A 3RD OR 4TH OPTION PLAYER!!!! Seriously . . . if a team like Chicago doesn't retain Gordon, and want to take their chances in 2010 with luring a guy like Wade ( but doesn't get him ), do people not think for one minute that they'd throw all kinds of cash at JJ, to pair him up with Derrick Rose? Lineup: G - Rose G - JJ F - Deng F - Noah C - Miller ( at a reduced rate ) Do Hawk fans REALLY want to go up against a squad like that after 2010? What? Is Flip or Mo Evans gonna get the assignment to try to stop JJ? Or worse, have Jay-Z and Jersey try to take a 1-year shot at a title, and use JJ to replace Vince Carter after the 2010 - 11 season. G - Devin Harris G - JJ F - Vince F - Dejuan Blair ( projected pick on draftexpress.com ) C - Lopez ( who had a good year last year ) And people can say what they want about Vince Carter. That guy is STILL a very good player in this league and you still have to guard him like he's a star player. He may be like JJ, and on that 2nd tier . . and maybe he's not the guy who can lead a team by himself . . but he's still VERY GOOD. So now you put two players like that on the same squad . . plus a young PG like Harris, that people have trouble guarding? Like I said in my extensive breakdown of this in another thread. The is the absolute NIGHTMARE SCENARIO to me. To have a team like NJ get JJ, and IMMEADIATELY vault over us, because they'd have potentially 3 All-Star caliber players on the squad, plus a decent frontline. You think a Nets team like that, wouldn't be better than ANYTHING the Hawks could put together in 2010, outside of adding Wade, LeBron, or Bosh? That's why I say . . go ahead and offer JJ a 5 yr - 90 million deal, to guarantee that we'll have at least an All-Star caliber player here for the next 5 years. If people don't think he's worth it, they better have a FULLPROOF PLAN to bring in the type of guys that will at least keep us at the level we are right now.

I just wonder what the reaction by the fan base will be, if the Hawks are 21 - 10 at the New Year's break, like we were last year. OR WORSE If we're 23 - 8 . . with the 3rd best record in the East. It'll be DOOM AND GLOOM, because the Hawks and Woody are doing so well . . . with an 8-man rotation

LOL. . you'd think that this team won 30 games last year, judging by the posts on this board. It KILLS people that a Woody-led team won 47 games last year. Either that, or they expected us to win 50+ games, and get to at least the Eastern Conference Finals. (( searching for that thread ))

Miller would be a HUGE UPGRADE over Bibby. He's much better defensively than Bibby, especially when it comes to defensive awareness away from the ball. And Miller can DRIVE THE BASKETBALL, something this team desperately needs. With Miller, Woody may indeed change up the offense, and let Miller be the creater for others . . even JJ. Put Miller at the point, and JJ won't have to work nearly as hard for his shots all the time. 91% of Bibby's shots were jumpers. 59% of Miller's shots were jumpers. That's a HUGE difference. And that would completely change the dynamic of this team. With Miller, guys like JJ, Marvin, Mo, and Flip could literally bomb away from the outside, because people would have to give help defense on Miller driving to the hole.

I'm going to give my reply before reading the rest of the thread. EXCELLENT INTERVIEW AND RIGHT ON TARGET WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING. I definitely agree about paying big money to Andre Miller, before giving money to Bibby. Because Stephen A. is right. Bibby is HORRIFIC defensively. If his shot isn't on, he absolutely kills this team, because he can't be counted on defensively. Switch or no switch, he gets lit up. VERY INTERESTING TAKE on talking about JJ vs Smoove. The fans would rather build around Smoove IMO ( somebody needs to make that a poll question ). I think S.A.S phrased that whole JJ vs Smoove thing the way he did, because I truly believe that Smoove THINKS he can be the main option offensively. Bad jumpshot or not, he believes that he could be "the man" on this team. But Smith may be right. The future of this team may come down to who management thinks they should build the team around . . . JJ or Smoove. Of course, his take on Woody is dead on as well. The best low post player he's had to work with, was Al Harrington. And the PGs we've had here, for the most part, are shoot-first type guys, who really don't take the ball to the hole. to generate most of their points. Even with Bibby, he can be described as not only a "streak shooter", but a "streak playmaker" as well. It's always nice to hear an honest take of this team, from a national source.

The only way Cleveland is winning this series, is for either Mo Williams or Delonte West to average about 25 a game for the rest of the series . . along with LeBron getting 35+ points . . and Big Z and Varejao rebounding better. The NBA is all about matchups. And Cleveland does not match up well AT ALL with the Magic. What have they lost? 9 out of the last 10 or 11 games they've played against the Magic? Nah man. Even if the refs cheat, it still won't matter. I mean damn . . if it wasn't for Lebron's lucky buzzer beater in Game 2 . . . the Cavs GET SWEPT !!!! That's why this fan base can't be so hard on the Hawks performance against the Cavs. Whether people want to admit it or not, the injuries to Al and Marvin absolutely KILLED US. Let those 2 be healthy, and it's a much closer series than it was. A healthy frontline of Al, Josh, and Marvin would've at least given us a puncher's chance to win a few games, and put ourselfves in position to possibly steal the series.

Exactly. And I'm as big of an Acie Law fan as anybody. But like I had to do with Salim, there's only so much sympathy you can have for a guy. That guy has to produce when he gets on the court . . even if he only plays in 3 - 5 minute stretches. If Bibby is re-signed ( or if we trade for a PG ), and we re-sign Flip, he's going to be in the same situation next year, unless he beats out Flip for some PT at the 1.

Actually . . now that I think about it, the guy to compare Acie to, is JJ Redick. In his first 2 years in the league, he barely got on the court. The he starts crying about his playing time. But to be honest, he wasn't better than guys like Keith Bogans, Mo Evans, and even Kenyon Dooling ( when they played him at the 2, when he and Jameer was in the game together ). Even this year, he was starting out to be buried on the bench, because he wasn't better than Pietrus or Lee. So why just have a mandate to give him PT, when you have people who are better than him already playing? When guys started to go down, Redick got more PT. Then when Lee went down in the playoffs, forcing him to start a few games, he came up big. That's the situation Acie is in. And that's how Acie has to play, when he gets his opportunities to play. Like Hawkman said. If Acie is only going to play 12 minutes a game . . even 5 minutes a game, he better play as hard as he can for those 5 minutes, and try to make as many good things happen as possible. Ish . . that's what Mario started to do, to gain a little more PT. Maybe Acie needs to watch some old Spud Webb youtube footage. Forget the dunk contest dunks, look at the actual basketball plays he used to make. Fast forward to about the 2:57 mark, and see the type of in-game basketball plays he used to make. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-IoInRUjDM...feature=related

It isn't the issue of who's better. The issue is who is in a better position to get playing time. Who does Courtney have playing in front of him? JJ Redick? ( no ) Mickael Pietrus? ( possibly, because he can play the 2 . . but Van Gundy chooses to play him at the 3 most of the time) So Lee is actually the best 2-guard on the team. When you look at Acie's situation, he's playing behind Bibby. And because Flip can be used to defend at the 1, he's playing behind Flip too. There's only 3 ways Acie can get minutes: - hope that Bibby gets traded, and we don't bring in another PG - beat Flip out as the backup PG, and get some of the minutes he got last year. - Hope Woody plays Flip more at the 2 . . giving Acie a chance to play limited minutes at the 1. To be honest, it's the same situation that Daniel ( Boobie ) Gibson is in. He was the Cavs favorite role player 2 yeas ago. But these days, he can't get on the floor because both Mo and Delonte are eating up the minutes at the guard spots. Mo eats up almost 40 minutes at the point, during the playoffs. Delonte eats up over 40 minutes at the 2. In the playoffs, Gibson is only playing during garbage time, for the most part. Acie is going to have to take his minutes, not expected them to be handed to him, like we did with Smoove, Marvin, and Chill ( when he was here ). He's going to have to do what Zaza did, and prove his worth off the bench, even in limited minutes. Some of Acie's woes can be placed on Woody, but not all of them. Acie simply has to start outplaying people, if he wants to geton the court.

The final 4 teams, and their PGs Lakers: Derek Fisher Magic: Rafer Alston Cavs: Mo Williams Nuggets: Chauncey Billups Billips and Williams are good, with Billups damn near being great. Fisher is merely a spot-up shooter. Rafer is good ( when he's on ). So BK isn't halfway off, if he thought you could get by with a mediocre PG. I mean, when you look at the top PGs in the game . . Paul, Deron, Dre Miller, Nash . . all of them have failed to even reach the NBA Finals. You need great players PERIOD, not just a great PG.

STOP !! ( sigh ) . . I thought I'd never see his name on these boards again. Ish, I'd rather trade back for A.J., than to bring Ridnour here. - injury prone - one of the pooer shooting PGs in the league - and that's because he might be THE POOREST finisher at the rim, of any guard in the NBA It'll be like trading for a worst shooting version of Bibby. There's NO DOUBT in my mind, that if Acie was given a chance to play significant minutes, he'd be better than Luke Duke Ridnour. The best game I've ever seen Luke play, was 2 - 3 years ago, when Seattle came to ATL early in the season, and beat us. Then again, he had the likes Ty Lue trying to keep him in check. Diesel . . that guy is garbage, and NOWHERE NEAR the 6.5 million that he'll make next year.

Even I'm for trading JJ, if you can upgrade at the position. Smoove did what I wanted him to do though this year. And that was dramatically improve his FG%. Although he and the whole team ( minus Bibby ) shot bad during the playoffs, I do give Smith credit for shooting 49% FG during the season. As a PF, that's where he needs to be. If he leaves the jumpers alone, he could raise that FG% into the low - mid 50%. IF he's willing to do that, he might have a shot at a few all-star games. If not, he's going to be a Kirilenko-type player that will continue to frustrate the fan base. Having said that, if you were to tell me that we could add Carlos Boozer, in place of Smoove . . you do that in a heartbeat. You don't do it for a scrub PF and the chance to get Thabeet though. Thabeet isn't going to be that good at all.

If that's the case, he might as well go to Sacramento. They could use a nice PG, other than Beno.

Boozer ain't signing for less than 12 million, in my opinion. Probably in the 5yr - 65 to 75 million range.

They wouldn't give us Kaman, but Camby? That might be workable. They may go a little while and see if a frontline rotation of Kaman, Griffin, and Camby would work ( which it probably will ). If it didn't, Camby would probably become trade bait at the trading deadline. I know if I were the Clips, I wouldn't trade Camby until I saw how he meshed with Grif and Kaman.

And people wonder why others outside of ATL talk bad about the fan base. It's just an ungratgeful, and somewhat unappreciative fan base. People know we don't have a pass-first PG running the show, nor a legit low post presence, yet, they want this offense to run smooth as a finely tuned Corvette. There is no doubt that Woody isn't a good offensive coach. But there's also no doubt that we don't have the pieces necessary to be a highly efficient offense either. People want to see "pretty" basketball, instead of seeing the Hawks win. And if that wasn't the case, fans wouldn't talk about NOT going to watch this team play, even though we won 31 home games. You know how many teams won 31 home games last year? 10 . . . 10 out of the 30 teams in this league can say that they won 31 home games, yet, some of you want to boycott Philips and ABANDON YOUR TEAM, just because you don't like the damn coach. This is what pisses me off about some in the ATL fan base. Cry all you want about the offense. The fact is that we WIN. Would you rather be like the Knicks, and look great on offense, yet lose 65% of your games? I don't want to go back to losing. I like winning. I like watching the Hawks win AT PHILIPS . . even if they score 82 points doing it. Talk about me all you want . . but if you fans abandon the team NOW . . . NOW. . WHEN WE'RE A PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM, you weren't fans to begin with. Get over your hatred of the coach, and support the (( bleepin )) team!! By the way . . 2008 - 09 Hawks averaged 98.1 ppg and shot 46%

LOL . . exactly. The thoughts of Sacramento fans: 2004 - Webber . . you SUCK . . we don't want you here. Peja and Bibby are the heart and soul of the team . . Go away. 2006 - Adleman . . you can't get us over the hump . . I don't care if you got us to the playoffs every year . . you can't get us to that next level . . we need a new coach. 2008 - Bibby . . you SUCK . . and you stay hurt all the time . . get the hell outta here 2009 - ( crying ) . . the NBA is RIGGED . . we can't even get a top 3 lottery pick, after having the best odds? . . ( crying ) we need a better coach . . ( more crying ) we need to sign a superstar . . ( even more crying ) don't move the team out of Sacramento LOL . . there are about 15 - 20 franchises in FAR WORST shape than we are. Welcome back Woody.

No homerun coaches out there, so I'm definitely satisfied with retaining Woodson. Now, we just need Sund to go out and get us at least one impact player, or 2 more good role players. We're nowhere near a championship caliber team anyway, so keep things as is, while tweaking the mix. It's not like if Phil Jackson were here, that we'd be playing in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Mookie made the All-Star team: 13.8 ppg . . 9.7 asst . . 5.2 rebs . . 2.6 stls Willis had a very good year: 19.1 ppg . . 12 rebs And Nique, while inconsistent, was still very good: 24.4 ppg . . 6.2 rebs Augmon and Ehlo were very good on the ball defenders The rest of the team filled in where they were needed. That was a TEAM. They were solid all around. If we had a decent center that year, we were easily a title contender. Ish . . we still were a title contender, because all of those teams had problems with us.

Diesel, I thought that's EXACTLY what Shelden would bring to this team though. If you talk to Duke fans, or fans of the ACC, they'd tell you that Shelden got a lot of his points off of offensive put-backs or easy lay-ups. At 6-8, and playing center, that's exactly what he needed to do . . be a garbage man that scrapped and hustled to get his points and rebounds. But like with Acie, it seems as if Shelden needed to be a starter, in order to make an impact on a game. When Shell came off the bench, he seemed to not make an impact at all. To me, he should at least be doing what Milsap in Utah, or Maxiell in Detroit is doing. But he can't even do that. Most disappointing about Shelden though, was his defense on the NBA level. I thought he'd be a much better defensive player. Horford, on the other hand, isn't even comparable to Shelden. He does exactly what I thought Shelden would do . . and more. What Horford needs to do, is either become Kurt Thomas-like with the 15 foot jumper, or do like Exodus has been saying for 2 years . . and start taking those centers off the dribble, like Smoove does with the PFs. When he starts doing that, he'll be a more efficient offensive player. His post game is weak at best right now. He'll have to work on that during the summer. From a jumpshooting standpoint, Horford is better than both Milsap and Maxiell already. Horford, if he starts taking people off the dribble, or develops a go-to post move, is going to be a highly efficient offensive player in the years to come. ( edit ) - Ish . . from a jumpshooting standpoint, he was better than Boozer this year.

LOL . . I'm just saying coach. If people want to re-sign Flip . . or Bibby . . or Marvin . . or all 3, we're not going to have the money to do what people want to do. Those other teams I named, I think, will pretty much sell off the farm, in order to remake their team. To be in position to even come close to give a free agent a top of the line deal, we'd have to renounce Bibby . . and Marvin . . and Zaza . . . and then JJ next year, to be in position to go after one of the big boys. If we fail to get him . . we're screwed. So we basically have to prepare to match a 5/80 deal for JJ, or go ahead and get rid of him now, and get back some decent players. But the trend in this league is that you don't get to the elite level with decent players. You get to that level with star caliber players. Maybe we could trade for Vince Carter? I'm sure Hawk fans would love that. Trade JJ for Dalembert and Willie Green? Does that "wow" people? We need a PG. Trade JJ for Baron Davis? Oh wait. He shot 37% FG last year. To me, the best move the Hawks could make, is to go ahead and try to get a decent free agent this year. Would renouncing Marvin, in order to free up enough money to get an Andre Miller or an Allen Iverson, be the way to go? Then draft a SF to possibly replace Marvin? Or maybe make a play for Lamar Odom? LOL . . I mention Golden St. People better take a look at what happened to them and how they dealt with Baron. They played with Baron, not believing that he was worth as much as he thought he was. He then opts out. Then they tried to up the ante at the last minute, but Baron had his mind made up to leave for the Clips. Speaking of the Clips, they basically did the same thing with Elton Brand . . and he walked, although Brand was kind of shady with that deal. Chicago has done the same thing to Ben Gordon, and he'll probably walk too, if a team offers him a deal in the 12 - 13 million range. These players will go where the money is. If the Hawks don't deal JJ by the trading deadline, they MUST re-sign him at just about all costs. If a team will pay Rashard Lewis the money he got, you best believe that some team will easily pay JJ a contract like that. And the Hawks better be prepared for it.

(( sigh )) Josh Smith is the best among former first round Top 10 picks that have developed. However, Josh Smith is not at an All-Star level and his maturity on the court has been called into question. Josh Smith was a guy with very limited offensive skill when he came into the league. That's the reason why Jay Bilas basically said that he'd be a bust. Once Harrington was moved, Woody moved Josh to the 4, and encouraged him to use his athleticism and speed to take the bigger, slower 4's off the dribble. While he still jacks up a ton of bad outside shots, there is NO QUESTION that Smoove has progressed LIGHT YEARS ahead as a player. And while people will never give him credit, Woody deserves a lot of the credit for the development of Smith. Even though Boris Diaw wasn't with Woodson very long, its another example of another first round pick not being able to fit into Woody's system. To use Diaw the way Phoenix used him, meant that we'd have to play Diaw at the 4. And Diaw really didn't blossom in Phoenix, until he was forced to play some at the 5, something that no coach, other than maybe Don Nelson would've tried with Diaw. At that time when Diaw was here, we had Al Harrington playing the 4. Woody tried to utilize Diaw at the 1, 2, and the 3, and while an effective passer and decent defender, he was so timid offensively that his time on the court was basically a wash. Josh Childress was a limited player that was projected as a Top 10 pick, but both parted ways last year. Under Woody, Chill probably did as much as he could, considering that he couldn't shoot over people with a jumper. He was a Shawn Marion-lite type of player ( without the defense ), and Woody utilized him as such. Shelden Williams, who was picked over Brandon Roy and the Hawks traded him away within two years. Shelden was given a LOT of opportunity to succeed in ATL. He got a ton of playing time to see if he could be effective. He played well in spurts, but was inconsistent in his effectiveness on the court. As you can see with his stints in Sacramento and Minnesota, Shelden may simply not have what it takes to elevate his game anywhere near what he was in college. Need wise, the pick may have been right for the Hawks, because we desperately needed some frontcourt help. But it's obvious that Shelden just didn't have what it took physically and skill-wise, to be a consistently good NBA player. Maybe if he were on a horrible team where he could get a ton of PT, he may put up some decent numbers. Al Horford plays hard, but his game is very much under-developed or under-utilized. In college, Horford was a guy who could knock down the 10 - 15 face up jumper, and was somewhat effective with a hook shot. That hasn't changed much in the pros. Horford's main problem is that he has to go up against big centers. He's not going to be a big time scorer with JJ, Smoove, Bibby and Flip taking more shots. But when Smoove went down, and Horford was forced to play the 4 more, he put up MONSTER numbers. The Horford you saw during the playoffs, was a severly hobble Horford. It's pretty obvious that he wasn't right, after he twisted that ankle. Marvin Williams is a classic underachiever who more satisfied with being a follower than a leader and it seems the organization is trying to find a way to unload him (about time). And yet, Woody has seemed to encouraged Marvin to continue to expand his game. The fact that Woody told him to come back this year with a 3-pont shot, and Marvin did just that, proves that Woody had some hand in that kid's development. Marvin may never be a star, but it won't be because he didn't get the opportunity to show off his game under Woody. People criticized Woody for playing Marvin over Chill for years. He did it because Marvin was more versatile than Chill, and had more potential to develop more. And finally Acie Law, after watching guys like Rondo and Aaron Brooks being put into situations in which they are gaining valuable experience and growing at the same makes me think, why isn't Acie doing this? I still say that Woody was about to hand over the reigns to Acie during the 07 - 08 season. He was in the starting lineup after the 3rd game, partially because AJ went down. Even with AJ in, we had a 3-headed rotation at the point. The Charlotte game, in which Acie had 7 assists in the first half, was going to be his breakout game, from a playmaking standpoint. He was easily going to have 11 - 13 assists that game. But he got hurt. From that moment on, Acie's life here has been star crossed. The Hawks started to take off, with AJ at the point, and Acie hurt. The good December that AJ had that year, not only solidified AJ as the starter, but buried Acie on the bench. If Woody wasn't fighting for his coaching life, he may have went back to Acie. But he didn't. Once we made the trade for Bibby, Acie had another shot for solid playing time . . but he got hurt again. This year, Acie had a shot to crack the rotation, but Flip immeadiately showed that he could make more of an impact on a game, than Acie could. IMMEADIATELY. It would've made no sense to give significant PT to Acie to develop him, and reduce Flip's minutes. What Woody could've done, is reduced JJ's minutes at the 2, played Flip there, and get Acie a little time at the point when Bibby was out. You're still not talking significant minutes though. When you mention guys like Rondo, Brooks, and even Conley, all of those guys were basically handed the PG job from Day 1. In the case of Brooks, he only saw significant minutes at the point AFTER Rafer Alston was traded. The same could be said of Conley, after they got rid of Lowry. If the Hawks didn't re-sign Bibby, and only Flip was left to play the point, we then could see what Acie could do with significant PT. ********** Having said all of that, the fact remains that this team underwent a 12 game improvement from last year . . and won their 1st round playoff series for the first time in 10 years. They also posted their first winning record for the first time in 10 years. Woody found ways to immeadiately integrate Flip and Mo into the Hawks system, to make this a good ball club. To me, the only thing that matters as a Hawks fan, is that WE'RE WINNING. Fug how we do it, or how we look doing it. The fact that we're now relevent again in the NBA, is satisfying to me. Now, we just have to keep expounding on what we have going here. No matter how much the fans despise Woody, he doesn't DESERVE to be fired.

So who do you get Hawksquawk? And how much do you pay him? You guys better pay attention to the final 4 in the playoffs, and how much those guys make: Lakers: - Kobe: 21+ million - Gasol: 15+ million - Odom: 11+ million ( with Bynum making 12+ million next year, andhe hasn't done ish ) Nuggets: - Melo: 14+ million - K-Mart: 14+ million - Billups: 11+ million Cleveland: - Lebron: 14+ million - Big Ben: 14+ million - Wally: 13 million Boston: - Garnett: almost 25 million - Pierce: 18+ million - Allen: 17+ million Orlando: - Lewis: 17+ million - Howard: 13+ million - Turkoglu: almost 7 million ( and he'll probably opt out in 2009, to get a contract in the 10 - 13 million range ) LOL . . I don't know what NBA you guys watch, but is the reality of this league. Guys like Lewis, Pierce, Allen, Gasol, and K-Mart ( who all never won anything when they were "the man", got paid because they were the best player on the team at the time, and was a key piece to at least keep that team at playoff level ). If we try to lowball JJ . . he's gone. Simple as that. No way we're retaining him with a Josh Smith-like deal. So who do you replace him with Hawksquawk? And remember this . . . before JJ "wanted" to come here, the Hawks were NOTORIOUS for not being able to land big time free agents, even when we did have the cap room. Very, very good players in this league get paid BIG BUCKS. Superstar players get even more. So who do you get in 2010 Hawksquawk? What star or superstar do you get, that is going to get us to elite level, that will REALISTICALLY come here? Don't be shy. Tell us some guy who we can legitimately get, that will get us to elite level. And how much are you willing to pay that guy?

Diesel, I totally agree. Defensively, that guy absolutely kills us. If he's on offensively, he neutralizes what he gives up defensively. But when he's off, his lack of awareness defensively absolutely kills us. I thought he was a better defensive player than Lue, but he really isn't. If he is better, he's only slightly better. And he's nowhere near as good as AJ was on defense. I love what Bibby did for us in his 1.5 years here. He was good enough to get us to playoff level. But if we can get a better guard who can run a team, and play much better defense, the Hawks have go that route. I'm not a Jarrett Jack cheerleader, like a lot of people on Hawksquawk, but I'd rather throw a mid-levelesque deal at Jack, than to throw a similar deal at Bibby. Jack could pretty much give us what Bibby did on offense, while also allowing Flip and possibly Acie to fill the point. Personally, I'd rather go all out, and try to bring Iverson in here, and give him all of the money we have left under the cap, to bring that guy in here that can penetrate, dish, and possibly be that vocal leader that the Hawks desperately miss. If not that option, I'd roll the dice with Acie, and see if he could run the team, with Flip signed to a 3 yr/ 15 mill year. If not, you make a deal for a PG, and dangle Claxton/Evans as trade bait to a team looking to cut a little payroll. But I agree. Bibby shouldn't be brought back. Thank you Bibby, for your service to the Hawks. LOL . . if we don't re-sign him, he'll probably end up in a place like Detroit or somewhere.