TheNorthCydeRises

Diesel, Cleveland has MUCH BETTER SHOOTERS than Miami, because not only can those shooters hit the 3, they can also create their own shot. Then, when the MVP is making his 3's, that just makes everything worse. Plus Big Z is a mid-range shot demon. The key is on defense. We need to close out on guys like Mo Williams, Daniel Gibson, and Delonte West, and make LeBron beat us via the jumpshot. He can't be parading to the line 14+ times a game.

It was midway in the 2nd quarter when that went down. Bibby drove and dished it to Smoove, who missed about an 18 - 20 footer. He WAS wide open, and Bibby could've easily been called for a charge on that play, because Joel Anthony was in perfect position. They just didn't call it. But Smoove basically drifted out to the perimeter when Bibby started to drive. Smith actually did right on that play, because Bibby basically had nowhere to go. That's why he passed it to Smith, who once again, was WIDE OPEN. The shot wasn't a 3, so I can't be mad at him for that shot. When Miami had the ball on the next possession, that's when you see Woody talking to somebody, and motioning something with 3 fingers up.. Woody seemed to be mad. It was at that point when Van Gundy said something about Woody being disgusted with the shot that Josh took. On the Hawks next possession, Smith pretty much tries to post up James Jones in the high post. He gets the ball with Jones on him, and Haslem ( for some reason ) drifts off of Bibby toward Smoove. Smoove then casually passes the ball back to Bibby, who knocks down a wide open 3 to give us an 11 point lead.

In the end, it doesn't matter though. Because when the team plays well, all of the praise is placed on the players. And when the team plays bad, all of the blame is placed on the coach. It's hardly ever any "both coach and players did a good job or a bad job tonight". It's always either one or the other. Can we get to the NBA Finals going 8 or 9 deep? Hmmm . . let's see how much of the bench the other coaches have been playing players in the playoffs. CLEVELAND ( 9 deep ) Daniel Gibson and Joe Smith are the main rotation guys off the bench that play over 20 minutes a game. Big Ben is the 8th man. Wally Sczcerbiak is the 9th man. Neither Ben or Wally average more than 12 minutes a game duriing the playoffs, and might average less, if the games were closer . . especially Wally, who hardly played in Game 3 ( the game that was the closest in that series ) BOSTON ( 8 deep . . with spot play from 2 others ) Eddie House and Stephon Marbury are the only Boston bench players who have played in every game this postseason. Leon Powe's injury forced Doc Rivers to play other guys, mainly Brian Scalabrine, who didn't even play in the first 2 games, and got 3 minutes in Game 3. He's the 8th man now. Tony Allen and Mikie Moore while getting very limited spot minutes, haven't played in every game in the series either. ORLANDO ( 7 deep . . with added play from an 8th man, since the Courtney Lee injury) Anthony Johnson and Mikael Pietrus are their main rotation guys off the bench. JJ Redick played a TOTAL of 12 minutes in the first 4 games, before Lee's injury saw his time dramatically jump to 30 minutes a game in the final 2 games. Martin Gortat will see time, usually depending on D-Howard being in foul trouble. His performance with Howard out in Game 6, might get him more PT though. LA LAKERS ( 9 deep ) Sasha Vujacic, Shannon Brown, and now Andrew Bynum ( who has been benched in place of Lamar Odom, although I'd imagine Phil may start Bynum against Yao tonight ), are his core 8, with Luke Walton being the 9th man. Since Walton is out, his minutes now go to Josh Powell. Farmar hardly ever plays anymore. He only played 4 minutes in each in the first 2 games. 3 DNP's since. HOUSTON ( 8 deep, now that Dikembe is out . . with spot play from a 9th guy ) Von Wafer, Carl Landry, and Kyle Lowry are your main guys off the bench. If a 9th man plays, it will be Chuck Hayes, who you may see for 2- 4 minutes stretches in each half. DENVER ( 9 deep ) J.R. Smith, "Birdman" Andersen, and Anthony Carter are going to be your main guys off the bench. Linas Kleiza will see time in every game as well. DALLAS ( 8 deep . . with a possible 9th man thrown into the mix from time to time ) 6th man of the year Jason Terry, Brandon Bass, and now Antoine Wright ( since Barea has been promoted to be a starter ), are your main guys off the bench. Depending on the situation, you'll also usually see Ryan Hollins in the game, as Dampier's backup. Especially when Damp gets in foul trouble. Having said that, Hollins has had 2 games in the playoffs in which he's only played 1 minute. ATLANTA ( 8 deep with Marvin healthy . . 7 deep with spot minutes from an 8th guy, when he's not ) Of course, our rotation off the bench is Flip, Zaza, and Mo. Since the Marvin injury, we've seen that 8th man in the rotation being filled by either Solo or Mario. The luxury with the Hawks, is that we have a lot of guys who can PLAY AND GUARD 2 positions, if called upon to do so. Flip can handle both the point and the 2. Mo can handle the 2 and the 3. And Zaza is the backup center that allows Horford to handle both the 4 and the 5. Even JJ's ability to handle both the 2 and the 3, plus be the offensive faciliator at times, is an added bonus to this team. So while others may want to see Solo and Acie and Mario get more time, you can easily . . EASILY see why they don't.

Wow. So the Hawks not fouling out is just another reason why he is a bad coach? It's funny. On one hand, the fans wants to see the bench players develop, by way of more playing time. The argument is that guys like Acie, Mario and Solo should all be getting playing time, and take a few minutes away from JJ, Bibby, and Smoove. On the other hand, when Woody tries to protect his players from getting in foul trouble ( especially in the first half when they pick up 2 fouls ), the fan base has a MAJOR problem with that, because it keeps the starters on the bench and forces the bench players to play and step up. Those very bench players that everyone wants to see play. As for Smoove, it's a known FACT that Woody hates it when Smith jacks up a bunch of threes. You not only see his displeasure about it when you watch the Hawks on TV, you DEFINITELY SEE IT when you're at a game live, and happen to look at the bench when Smith jacks up a 3. That's why Smith seems to stay pissed at Woody all the time. Because Woody is always telling him to stop doing that ish. You see him all the time, with that whining look on his face, after Woody has told him something that he doesn't like. For Woody, it's always been "damned if he does . . damned if he doesn't." It's kind of hilarious actually.

I know Truth. I know. ( rolling eyes ) Brotha2thaNite's poll is showing just how ungrateful the fans truly are. Because even if we beat the Cavs, Woody still won't get any credit, because people truly hate him. It's kind of like with Marvin. Even if Marvin turns out to be a 19 - 21 ppg scorer, some on this site will still be unsatisfied with him, until he becomes an all-star. With Woody, he'll literally have to get us to the NBA Finals THIS YEAR, for the majority of the fan base to respect him. But if we got swept by the Lakers in the Finals, people would still call for his head. That's why the cartoon is accurate. And that site doesn't have a bald guy I could use for Woody, so I picked that particular character. I mean, this time last year, when we got knocked out of the playoffs, everybody and their mother was a better coach than Woody. - D'Antoni was - Porter was - Skiles was - the coach from the movie Semi-Pro was. Some of you guys act like ANY COACH would be better. All I know is that Woody hasbeen right from DAY 1, with his constant preaching about defense and rebounding. If the team would completely buy into the fact that they have to play DEFENSE at a high level every night, they'd be a much better team, regardless of the struggles on offense. We'd be the 2003 Pistons . . a team poised to make that final leap to gettiing to the NBA Finals. Even when the offense sucks, the defense should still be there.

Mike Woodson is the anti-D'Antoni. But people would rather watch offensive basketball, with bad defense . . than defensive basketball, with bad offense. But here's the crazy part about the "bad offense" Go to this link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/ . . and click on ORtg ( offensive rating ) When you do that, it'll list the best Hawk teams each year, based on their offensive rating. What you'll see, is that the 08 - 09 Hawks are tied for the 7th best offensive team in Hawks history ( according to their offensive rating system ). When you do the same thing for DRtg ( defensive rating ), the 08 - 09 Hawks are one of the bottom 10 worst teams in Hawks history ( according to their defensive rating system ). The inconsistency of this team actually comes more on the defensive end, than it does on the offensive end. It's just that the offense is usually just average to below average. The defense fluctuates wildly, from being great . . to being flat out horrible.

The fallout from that "one game", is that they're going to try to get rid of a lot of people on that squad. Problem is, they probably won't be able to. Which means that the Hornets are fugged, unless a guy like Rasual Butler dramatically improves and permantely sends Peja to the bench. That Hornet team flat out quit in that game . . including Paul. I could just imagine the nuclear explosion this board would've had, if we'd lost Game 2 by 58 points. This board would've lit up like the Christmas tree on the White House lawn.

It's pretty obvious now that the Hawks win when they play defense. Keep in mind guys, we only scored 91 points today. When this team doesn't play defense, is when we lose. Offense is nice, but our success will completely depend on how we defend the Cavs. Including the playoffs, we're 26 - 3 when we hold our opponent to less than 90 points. ( losses to Boston, Orlando, and yes . . to Cleveland, on the BS LeBron foul at the end of that game ) If the opponent score 90 - 99 points, we're 16 - 11. If they score over 100, we're 9 - 24 So the key is obviously to play defense, and not let the game get out of hand. That way, if we're struggling offensively, our defense can still keep us in a game.

And the thing is . . . Woody now has a 7 - 7 playoff record . . and it still makes him the coach with the best playoff winning percentage since the Hawks have been in Atlanta. And he's the first coach in 38 years to win a 7-game playoff series. Woody will get a 4 year deal, and there's not too much anybody can do about it, because we won't get swept by the Cavs.

I tried to post this about 4 days ago, in that thread making fun of Woody before Game 5. I didn't have this video transferred to youtube then. It is now though. Woody would never say this in real life, but he's probably thinking this nonetheless.

That's actually a very good case to vote for Bibby. Just think if Bibby would've played like he did in this series, last year against Boston? We might have at least made those games in Boston a lot closer.

Josh Smith. In the wins, especially the home wins, he played really well. Bibby was by far the most consistent. But if I'm forced to pick an MVP, I'm taking Smith for this series.

Post of the Year.

Maybe from a Falcon perspective. From my perspective as a Bengals fan, he's Chad Johnson all the way. Or maybe even Vince Young, seeing that Vince refuses to really work on what he needs to work on to be a good QB. He's electrifying and can make plays. But he has GLARING deficiencies in his game that drives fans crazy.

If we get to the 2nd round, it has been a successful season. Anybody who says that at the beginning of the season, that they wouldn't have been happy if the Hawks reached the 2nd round, is lying to you. This is a fan base where most people didn't even have the Hawks winning 45 games. So getting to the 2nd round BETTER be something that Hawk fans look at as being a success.

I still have the Golden St game from 2 years ago, when Salim had a great game. He and JJ ran the post up game to perfection. Salim would feed JJ, who would be posted up on the low block. If Salim's man didn't double, JJ would try to score with a post up move. If Salim's man tried to double JJ, JJ would simply kick it back out to Salim for the jumper. I would love to see more of JJ in the post, especially if Woody played him at the 3, with Bibby and Flip on the floor. You would have 2 shooters on the floor within JJ's line of vision. Problem is . . to counter that, I'd send Haslem over to double JJ, and leave Smith open. JJ would see the double, kick it to Bibby, and Bibby would swing it to a wide open Smoove. Smith takes a 21 footer and miss . . and that would be the end of the offensive possession. Still . . I'd love to see more of JJ in the post.

Yeah, we should win. I kind of find it hard to believe that it will be a blowout though. I think this will definitely be the closest game of the series, with the Hawks maybe winning by 5. 80 points is the magic number. The first team to 80, will win the game. Just can't let Wade get going right away though. He'll look to have the same type of game he had last night. Defensively, they just need to get it done. If they do, we'll have control of the game, and be off to Cleveland to play Tuesday night. That'll make Game 3 to be on Sunday in ATL, I hope. And for those of you thinking that a loss tomorrow will somehow help the team . . please. You bring in a new coach, and we're still going to have the same problems. - If Phil Jackson couldn't make Lamar Odom play aggressively as a starter, how is a new coach going to make JJ turn into a guy that is willing to be on he attack at all times? - If Pat Riley ( or any other coach ) couldn't make a player like Ricky Davis play smarter, how is a coach going to turn Smoove into a smarter player? - Will a new coach turn Horford into a better low post player, when he's obviously not a good low post scorer and doesn't have many good post moves? Usually, teams get better when they make player trades, not coaching changes. - Knicks suck, with D'Antoni . . and Phoenix looked worse, with Terry Porter - Skiles gets fired from Chicago, goes to Milwaukee, and they still miss the playoffs ( why? because their big dogs ( Bogut and Redd ) were hurt for long stretches ) - Larry Brown goes to Charlotte, and they go from 32 to 35 wins. Not a significant improvement at all. - Detroit fires Flip Saunders, in favor of Michael Curry, and that team is much worse off. ( but a lot of that had to do with Billups being traded for Iverson ) - Philly fires Cheeks, and they were still sucking ( until Brand went down ) . . then they acutally started playing better, because Iggy could get more touches. - Toronto cans Sam Mitchell when he was one game under .500. His successor finishes 15 games under .500 - Washington cans Eddie Jordan, after making the playoffs 4 straight years . . but waiting until the Wiz start 1 - 10 ( without Arenas ), before they fire him. They go on to win 18 more games. ( note: the reason the Wiz had so much trouble in the playoffs, is because they had no inside game, to go along with those great perimeter players and they played no defense . . . sound familiar? ) The only coaching changes that worked this year, was Dallas adding Flip Saunders ( only because they won their 1st round series against a hobbled Spurs team ) . . and Chicago with Vinny Del Negro, by what he's done wtih the Bulls ( although it was the trade for Brad Miller and John Salmons, that really turned their season around ). If people truly want the Hawks to compete for a title, they have to hope that this team plays consistent defense on a nightly basis . . or they get the right mix of inside and outside players on the floor. This team lacks a guy who can get to the hole at will, and a guy who can consistently score on the low block. Coaching change or not, if those things persist, the offense will still be inconsistent. The only way this team, as it's constructed right now, can make noise in the playoffs . . is to make the commitment to be one of the best defensive teams in the league. If this team defends tomorrow nigh, we'll win with no problem.

The more I see Josh play, the more I see Chad Johnson. All the talent in the world, but both players are selfish players in the fact that they think everything revolves around them. @ Wurdier . . Smoove should be a souped-up Shawn Marion, and that would instantly make him an all-star. In 05 - 06, he averaged almost 22 ppg, 12 rebs, and shot 52% FG. Now I don't expect the point total to be that high, but the rebounding could definitely be that high, if he stayed around the rim. But he refuses to play that way. It's just like with JJ. JJ refuses to completely take control of a game, and try to carry the team. And Smoove refuses to play on the inside, play within himself, and mix it up a little.

You're probably not the only one, but that's flawed thinking. Almost "anti-fan" ( which I know you're not ) I'd much rather watch this team for another 2 weeks, struggle and have me cussing at the TV, than to be mad about losing to Miami for the entire summer. I wouldn't like it, but I could accept being beat by the Cavs . . 4 - 1 or 4 - 2. No one expects us to beat the Cavs anyway, so them smaking us around in that series would kind of be expected . . especially in Cleveland. That's the same logic that people were using for the Hawks to tank 2 years ago, to get a good draft pick, instead of trying to get in the playoffs. We tried, but failed to make the playoffs. We get hella lucky, and end up with the opportunity to get Horford. The next year, we're still below .500, but have a shot to get in the playoffs. You still had people on this board advocating "tanking", instead of making the playoffs, because they were certain that Boston would blow us out of the water. 6 games later, we're in Boston for a decisive Game 7 ( which we got blown out in ). If that's the scenario that happens in Cleveland, I'd much rather take that, than to lose tomorrow. A lot of people think that our problems stem with the coach. It's the makeup of the team that is the problem. We're a jumpshooting team, that plays soft at times. Our mindset has to be like those Piston teams of 5 and 6 years ago. Gotta defend. Gotta be tough. And when the offense isn't going, gotta hit the boards to prevent the other team from getting extra opportunities.

He's TOO MUCH of a team player. I know that's crazy to say. But he is. I think without Marvin on the floor to be able to knock down shots and possibly drive to the hole, it has put even more pressure on him to look for his shot. JJ averaged over 5 assists a game, mainly because of his ability to find open jumpshooters when he got doubled. If those guys are making shots, they can't double JJ no more, and he gets his points. But if they're missing, they can concentrate solely on JJ, and let everybody else try to beat them. In that 2nd quarter last night, he was very aggressive in his play. He took 9 shots, scored 9 points, and we cut a 17 point lead to 9. The 3rd quarter quickly got away from us though, because of horrible defense and Wade getting red hot. I just wish JJ would jack up a few quick jumpshots, to see if he can get it going early, like Wade does. But that may be the problem. We all want him to play like Wade, Kobe and LeBron. That's not who he is. He simply needs to take more shots though . . at least 20. Maybe some of his misses turn into offensive rebounds for us, so that we can get another possession. The opposite usually happens when Smoove takes long jumpers, because we might only have one guy around the goal. Let JJ take all of the long jumpers, and keep Smith around the goal for possible offensive rebounds.

I think Horford or Marvin have to play in Game 7, for us to pull this out. Even if you strictly use Marvin as a defensive deterrent and an extra rebounder and passer, he needs to be on the floor. I thought the team fought hard in that 2nd quarter. JJ had 9 points in the quarter. Bibby had it going, and made that big steal and shot at the end of the half. I think Wade didn't hit a shot in the quarter ( although he did get to the line ). It's just that in that 3rd quarter, they hit every shot, and we missed every shot to begin that half. Once Wade hit those back-to-back 3's, I think that's when JJ and the boys packed it in. The problem tomorrow, is if Wade looks to try to score 50 on us, by driving to the hole at will, and taking a ton of shots. If he gets it going early, we might be in trouble. But if we come out and play great team defense, we'll be OK . . even if JJ doesn't have it going. Of course, I'd love to see him have a 12 point first quarter, and get us rolling early. I've said this many times about the Hawks, but they play exactly like Utah on the road. Well, Utah is a little better, but they still find ways to lose games on the road that they have no business losing. Jerry Sloan is a far better coach than Woody, yet, his teams have sucked on the road for the past 6 - 7 years or so. But get that Utah team at home, and they look like world beaters in front of that home crowd. That's the hope for us. If we do like Woody said, and come out and play great DEFENSIVELY in that 1st quarter, we should be able to win the game. But if we give up 25+ points in the quarter, it may be bad news.

You're right. There's nothing wrong with it. With JJ and Bibby, we kind of have that now. I'm just not so sure if the ASG would want to pay two guys top dollar like that, seeing that both will probably command at least 5 yr - 90 million contracts. I definitely wouldn't be against it though. Not at all. The reason why they might not do it though, is because of Horford's impending contract extension in 2011. And you're right. We'd have to be smart with free agents and draft picks. It can be done though. Houston proves that.

The only problem with that, is that you'd end up having 2 MAX money guys on the squad, when JJ's contract comes up next year. Other than that, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Wouldn't even think twice about it. I think to pull a deal like that off, we'd have to re-sign Bibby and Flip, just to have some semblence of a PG here , if we didn't draft one . . (( cough )) Ty Lawson/Johnny Flynn (( cough )). Marvin would be a casualty, but I'd try to re-sign Zaza, for size. And maybe re-sign Solo on the cheap. Potential lineup: PG - Bibby G - JJ F - Mo PF - Bosh F/C- Horford With Flip, ( 1st rd pick - Lawson/Flynn ), Zaza, Solo, ( 2nd rd pick ) as the bench. That starting group would be formidible though.

So if we had a chance to get Carlos Boozer, and give them Josh, you wouldn't do that? A player like Boozer, who could score on the low block, would do wonders for this team. And he'd at least stay around the rim for rebounds, instead of being 20 feet away from the action, when the shot is taken. JJ is the player that makes everyone better, by his mere presence on the court. If JJ was so expendible, and Smoove such a keeper, then Smoove would've adequately stepped up and at least kept us in striking distance, when JJ went out of the game in that 1st quarter. But we all know what happens when JJ leaves the game. The team falls apart. That's one of the reasons why he leads the league in minutes played. I remember when people were split on whether to move Smith for Pau Gasol, when all of those rumors were out last year. LOL . . if we had Gasol, we would be preparing for Cleveland right now. And that's not even a slight on Smith, because overall, he's been decent this series. But a guy like Gasol would KILL the Heat for even thinking about doubling JJ. His low post and mid range game would see Gasol taking that 15 foot jumper, or going to the basket time after time. Then, when they would be forced to double Gasol, the outside would open up for JJ. When our PF takes as many long jumpshots as our guards, there's a problem. A BIG PROBLEM.

I'm not nearly as upset about last night's loss, than I was about the Game 2 and 3 performances. This game got out of hand a few minutes after JJ had to go to the bench with that 2nd foul. Once we found ourselves in that 15 point hole, the game was pretty much over from that point. We had a shot early in that 3rd quarter to really make it interesting, but Flash killed that thought pretty quick. I think what JJ needs to do, is take a few more quick jumpers, especially at the beginning of games. Our opponents know that if they keep doubling JJ, that it forces other people to beat them. They know Smoove will settle for jumpers if he's wide open. Bibby is hella streaky, as was shown by him not scoring a single point after halftime. And Mo really can't beat people off the dribble and get to the hole, if need be. Marvin's absence, with his ability to knock down open shots and get to the FT line, has really hurt this team. That takes away another guy that JJ is accustomed to passing to for open jumpers. So I think the adjustment for JJ has to be to start jacking up shots, long jumpers even. That's kind of what Wade does in Miami. That's definitely what Paul Pierce used to do, before KG and Allen came to the team. Ray Allen's whole game is based on this. And Kobe does it too, when he's looking to score in bunches. Actually, Flip and Bibby play like this at times too. So if I'm JJ, and I see even a slither of daylight, I'm shooting the ball. Even if they are 3 point attempts. That's the only way he can beat the double team, outside of passing the ball. The fact that his 3 point attempts are way down, is a testament to this. I'd much rather for him to take a quick shot, than for Smoove to take a wide open 22 foot jumper, or to keep passing to other people, when their shot is off. He's attacking the rim at times, which I like. But that's not really his game. He's a shooter. So if he has to take 20 shots, and make 8 of them, I actually have no problem with that. Hopefully, 3 or 4 of his misses turn into offensive rebounds for us ( like it did for Wade last night ), and the Hawks can get extra scoring possessions. **************** Having said all of that, Woody is right. If this team doesn't rebound and play defense, we're not going to beat anybody, no matter if JJ shoots the ball or not. It's not a coincidence that in the games we've won, our defense has been stellar, and we dominate the boards. That's been the key to this team all along . . . DEFENSE. In the Hawks 3 wins, we've scored 90, 81, and 106 . . . 92 ppg In those same 3 games, we've given up 64, 71, and 91 . . . . 75 ppg 30 point + quarters: Heat - 1 . . Hawks - 2 20 points or less qtrs: Heat - 8 . . . Hawks - 4 Now go the other way. Hawks score 93, 78, and 72 in the 3 losses . . . 81 ppg Heat score 108, 107, 98 in the 3 wins . . . 104 ppg 30 point + quarters: Heat - 3 . . Hawks - 2 20 points or less qtrs: Heat - 2 . . Hawks - 7 Overall, the averages in this series are for the Heat to score almost 90 a game, while the Hawks to score almost 87. So when you see the Heat averaging almost 15 points over their series average in wins, the problem is the defense.