TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: It's the offseason of 2009. Chillz was allowed to Walk. Hawks signed Luke Jackson to a 2 year deal and he has turned out to be a 8/3/2 players over 19 mpg. Marvin turns in a 16/6 season. Hawks didn't make the playoffs but JJ and Smoove played allstar level. Bibby was in rapid decline. Zaza was seldom seen. Brown didn't pan out. Morris was a little less than adequate. Horf improved to 15/9.7 player. Speedy was hurt midseason. Acie came along and was a 8/3/5 player in 26 mpg. what do you do when Marvin comes looking for his rfa extension? Bibby, solo, and Zaza comes off the books giving us 22 Million in cap space. What do you do. Do you resign Marvin to a big contract? If another team throws more than 8 Million at Marvin do you match? Do you regret not having Chillz? With the team you described, the only way we miss the playoffs is if Marvin averaged 16/6, but shot less than 43% FG. As the main complimentary scorer to JJ and Smith, he cannot shoot that low. So if that's the case, no. You don't match any offer over 8 mill. On the flip side, if he shoots 48%+ FG, you immeadiately any deal between 8 mill and 9 mill. If he shoots 48%+ FG and leads the Hawks in FT makes with 450+ FTM, you match anything between 8 and 9.5 mill a year. The increased FT makes and high shooting % are indicators that he is capable of being the #1 or #2 scoring option, thus, increasing his value. And I'll tell you what. If we miss the playoffs in 2009, the guy under the gun that summer will not be Marvin . . . it'll be Joe Johnson. Because the ASG would have to seriously start considering if JJ is worthy of a big extension if that happened. You'd let his play, and the fortunes of the Hawks, determine if you retain him or not. If the Hawks struggle in 2010, you trade JJ, not any of the kids. If you don't trade him, you let his deal fall off the books, and make a run at the big time FAs in 2010. If not, you then see if Smith, Marvin, Horford, and Acie can get it done for the future. That move also gives you more than enough money to retain both Horford and Acie and add quality role players.

Quote: First, I'll address Atlanta forward Josh Smith. Smith lost his leverage with the Hawks when Philadelphia signed Elton Brand and Golden State signed Corey Maggette. Now, he's basically at the Hawks' mercy. But contrary to some opinions, they are showing mercy. According to sources, they are offering Smith a six-year deal worth $60 million. Now this is lower than anybody on Hawksquawk has expressed giving to Smith, other than Hotlanta. So I guess a deal like this would start Smith out around 8 million? That's a far cry from the 11 - 13 million the majority of Hawksquawk wants to start him out at. If I'm Smith's agent, and 6/60 is the best deal he can get, I'm asking to be paid a flat 10 million a year, with a player option in year 4. The Hawks should counter with a team option in year 5, with year 6 being guaranteed if he's picked up by the team in year 5. Quote: Smith wants $12 million a year, and I can't blame him for wanting as much money as possible. But I think the Hawks are being fair. Not surprising. And I bet all the rest of those guys want 12 million per, after the deal Bogut got. Quote: With no competitors on the market, they could low-ball Smith. They could offer him the same five-year, $45 million deal they offered last year, and no one could better it. Smith's options are limited. Sign-and-trade opportunities are sparse because Smith will be a base-year compensation player, which complicates matters financially, and his qualifying offer of $3.1 million isn't that high because he was just the 17th pick of the 2004 draft. What Smith has to realize is that the Hawks have to protect their future. If they want to keep their young talent together, they can't break the bank for Smith. They're going to have to pay a lot of other folks too. Exactly. I think I've said that I would give Smith 11 mill per, 12 at the max. If Chill bounces to Greece, maybe the ASG can bump up the offer to 6/64 - 68 million, and entice him to sign for that. Quote: And Josh should count himself blessed. Perhaps he should get a little bit more money, but he could also be in the same position as Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor, who probably wish they had taken deals worth at least $10 million annually last summer. LOL . . exactly again. To me, Okafor's worth to that team isn't even greater than Gerald Wallace's As for Gordon, he might get a deal that pays him 7 million per . . . MIGHT. Quote: As for Atlanta's other free agent, Josh Childress, I'm told the Hawks are offering a five-year deal that begins at slightly more than the $5.5 million mid-level exception. So he's looking at a deal that could approach $7 million annually. If this is true, that's more than a fair enough offer for Chill. Chill may be looking for a higher startng salary to the deal though. If he has a 5/32.5 deal, maybe they can pay him a flat 6.5 mill throughout the deal Quote: That's much more than any other NBA team is willing to pay him. He hasn't gotten a mid-level exception offer from another team, so the only leverage he really has is overseas, where he's considering a three-year, $20 million offer from Olympiakos in Greece. Three years, $20 million vs. five years, roughly 34 million. What's the difference, other than more security with the NBA offer? Interesting comment frm him saying that it's much more than any other NBA team is willing to pay him. As far as the "what's the difference" between the NBA and Greek contract . . . . it's the amount he can make in 3 years. He can make 20 million the first 3 years virtually untaxed in Greece, compared to what . . 17 - 18 mill in the NBA for the first 3 years . . taxed at about 35% . . netting him around 12 mill. It's like I said about the Smith signilng bonus deal with Philly or the Clips. I don't care how much he "loves" Atlanta. When someone is offering you money right from the jump, you're usually going to take that money. Chill will be tempted to do the same with the Greece offer. There's a big difference between 7 million untaxed in year 1, and 5.5 million taxed at 35%.

I guess no one, outside of myself and a few others, have confidene in guys like Horford, Law, and especially Marvin, stepping up to the plate to compensate for the loss of Chill. And I wonder if the loss of Chill, would spur Marvin and Smith to start hitting the offensive boards. That's not a bad thing at all if that happens. Golden St last year loses Jason Richardson, arguably their 2nd or 3rd best player, and sees Stephen Jackson stay hurt most of the year . . yet . . they win 6 more games in 07 - 08. Why? Because guys like Monta Ellis, Azubuike, Barnes, and even Biendrins, stepped up on the offensive end. And when Jackson was healthy, he played very well. It could very well be the case that without Chill, guys like Horford and Marvin could see their ppg averages go up 3 - 4 points. And if Smith started to crash the offensive boards, you could see him become a legit 20 ppg scorer. It's possible that we become a better halfcourt team without Chill, while losing some of our potency on the fast break.

Swish, I think there are only 3 Hawk fans in Tennessee . . lol. But back to the topic, we have to try to play this right. A guy like Smith might be disgruntled of how slow things are going, but this is pretty much standard procedure for the NBA free agency period, especially when it comes to RFA's. So you'd go ahead and offer Smith the max, huh? So if you offer Smith the max, and you give Chill what he wants, what do you do with Marvin either this summer or next? Like Diesel, I want years and dollars concerning a deal with Marvin. What do you offer him?

Diesel, tell the WHOLE truth man. Free agents didn't want to come here in the first place. The only reason we got JJ, is because we paid him like he was a future superstar. We had absolutely no talent on the team, outside of Harrington, so we went ahead and paid JJ like he was the franchise player to build around. And speaking of overpaid, look how a mere MLE contract like Speedy's is KILLING US right now. And BK had to overpay to bring him in, because a guy like Cassell flat out didn't want to come to ATL . . even when we were going to overpay him. Even this year, are we supposed to give Posey 6 mill per, instead of dealing with Smith and Childress first? And what are we supposed to pay Chill? 5/40 mill? Better yet Diesel, answer me this. What do you offer Marvin Williams? We COULD actually get his extension done over the summer if we wanted to avoid having him become a RFA next summer. So what contract do you offer him, if there is no Childress around? And don't skirt around that question. I want to know what type of deal you would offer Marvin. No sign and trades. Strictly money and years. What would you offer him right now?

Diesel, you don't get it, do you? Every single decent RFA in the NBA is going through the same thing that Chill and Smoove are going through. Every single one. The fact that Sund and the ASG said that re-signing the Joshes were their first priority, doesn't mean that you give Chill 8 million per and Smith 14 million per. And the fact that Smith and Chill said after the playoffs that they wanted to be Hawks and keep this going, doesn't mean that they just take any offer the ASG throws at them. I love what Chill brings to the table. But the truth is that his production can be replaced by multiple players stepping up. And it will happen. It almost always does. And the team may be better for it. Yes, it would've been nice to get something back for Chill in a S&T, but this is an unprecedented scenario that is possibly going down. No one could've seen this coming. And I hate to tell you this Diesel, but this franchise values Marvin Williams more than they do Childress. Marvin WILL step up his game even more this year. And the loss of Chill will be lessened, because our all-star 2-guard can easily slide over and play the 3. So the only question then becomes can guys like Mario and Jeremy give us spot minutes at the 2, and do what they do best, whether it be defense or shooting. And can Acie give us 20 solid minutes a game. You'll see this firsthand when the season starts, seeing that Marvin can't play in the first 2 games. Fans are just too emotional about everything, and don't see all sides of the issue or situation. Just let this all play out, and see what we end up with once everything is over. This same fan base was going bonkers thinking that Smith was surely going to get an offer from Philly or the Clips. But it never happened. Whatever happens, the Hawks are going to be OK going into next season.

Quote: The situation with the Joshes underscores a mistake that a lot of GM have made recently. Management cannot overplay its hand when it comes to restricted free agents or players close to free agency. Consider: Joe Johnson and Phoenix Boozer and Cleveland Brand and Clippers Sacramento and Artest Joshes and Hawks Everyone of those cases probably could have been turned out better for the original team if it had only offered decent contract extensions the summer before. Instead, each GM tried to take advantage of the market to save a few bucks. What GM's and owners must realize is that the NBA is a player driven league. You cannot run player negotiations as if they were middle management at IBM. Players have leverage that simple economics can't quantify and that is fan loyalty. If Josh Smith leaves and becomes an all-star as a Maverick, he will take fans with him. The fans that remain will blame mgmt for the loss and won't show up to games. In todays NBA market, sometimes you have to take a short term economic hit for a long term gain. Contracts aren't just for 1 year, they are for multi years. You pay Smoove 12 million a year not just for what you know he is in 2008, but for what he will be in 2010. Hell we gave JJ a 70 million contract after he avg 16ppg in Phoenix. He now avgs 25ppg 3 years later. If the ASG can't see that then they need to break up the team and start over. It cuts both ways though JB. That same Phoenix team that let JJ get away, grossly overpaid for Diaw. Why? Because they didn't want to lose an "important" player. Utah has AK47, who is grossly overpaid partially because they have a guy in Boozer who is much better than him. Utah has to now assess the value of both Boozer and Okur, while paying Deron. The giant sore of a contract on that team, is Kirilenko's contract. NY has terrible contract situations all over the place because they grossly overpaid for everybody. Cuttino Mobley will make 9 MILLION DOLLARS next year. Troy Murphy, I think, will make 11 million. Adonyl Foyle once made 9 million a year. Tim Thomas once was making 11 million. Diop is making the full MLE, just to take up space in the middle. When does it stop? In Josh Smith's situation, you can definitely make a case for him making top dollar. And you can easily argue against it. The thing with Smith, is that it's his defense that will win games for you and not necessarily his offense. So the Hawks have to put a value on him. Last year, there's no way in hell you give him a deal like Bogut got this year, just to keep him out of the marketplace. The same goes for Deng. Gordon, now he had a pretty good offensive year in 06 - 07, so a case could be made for him getting paid. But then again, the Bulls knew he was pretty much an undersized SG that may be more of a detriment, than he is an asset at times. But look at all of the RFAs that haven't signed deals. As much as fans want to blame the ownership, it's these agens and players who are holding out for top dollar. And the top level guys like Smith, Okafor, Ellis, Biendrins, and Deng, all probably want a Bogut-like contract. Question is . . . do you pay them, or do you wait them out? If they're all willing to turn down 10+ million dollar a year deals, I say you wait them out. With Chill, if the reports are true, we were just unfortunate that some FIBA team goes crazy to obtain Chill. No one in the NBA was about to do that.

Quote: people say J.R is inconsistant but chilldress was also. i still say sign J.R smith. J.R is better than both mario and Richardson. his defense isnt all that but who on our team is besides smoove and maybe Horford? i wouldnt give J.R 30 minutes(unless he is feeling it) but more the lines of 21. Go on a Denver board, and see what they think about J.R. The guy has some worth, but with the way this fan base is about inconsistent players, J.R. would become a target everytime he lauched a 3, after missing the previous 3. Sometimes, it's just best to stick with what you have, when it comes to role players. Throw Acie, Jeremy, and Mario ( or Luke Jackson ) into the fire, and see if they can contribute. I wouldn't waste 3 - 4 million a year on J.R. Oh, and our backup SF will become JJ. Say you want a shooting lineup for a few minutes. You can throw this lineup on the floor: Bibby Richardson JJ Marvin Horford No sense spending money on JR, especially 4+ million

Quote: With Childress leaving to go play in Europe we MUST re-sign Smoove and add J.R. Smith or The Machine to offset the loss of Chill. Adding one of those shooting guards will be just as good as re-signing Childress and they will be cheaper than he was. I disagree. I say you give all of Chill's PT to Acie, Mario, and Jeremy. JR Smith is one of the more inconsistent players in the league. I'd much rather see them get the minutes, than JR Smith. Another thing people have to think about, is 2010. It seems as if everyone in the league is trying to clear cap room, to make a run at those UFAs in 2010 . . . and that inclues JJ, if he doesn't get an extension from us next year. He'll never admit it, but if Chill is indeed gone, the happiest person on the Hawks is Marvin Williams.

Before i start this, let m say that i have no problem bringing back both Smith and Chill. But I am prepared to see how this team would look and how individuals would respond, without one of them here. But we're only 2 weeks into the free agency period. The market for UFAs has been robust, while the market for RFAs has been tough going. I personally think all of these teams are dealing the right way with these RFAs. You don't grossly overpay for a guy who is not the best player on your team. You just don't. This is partially why Phoenix decided to let JJ go in a S&T to us 3 years ago. There have been so many overpaid players in this league, that it's ridculous. I'm not talking about guys who make 6 mill, but are only worth 3 or 4. I'm talking about the Rashard Lewis type of player, who is good, but is nowhere near good enough to command the dollars that he received. Overpaying a player, especially a mid to high dollar one, can be just as damaging to a team than not retaining him at all. There are too many Wally Szczerbiaks, Boris Diaws, Tim Thomases, and Rashard Lewises in this league, that have flat out stolen money since they've gotten off of their rookie contracts. So it's important for an organization to evaulate the worth of a player, and stick to its guns. It's also important for a player to get the most money he possibly can from these teams. I think these organizations see what the Spurs do, and envy them. Not only can you make the argument that their 2nd and 3rd best players are underpaid, you can also say that the Spurs NEVER overpay for people . . . NEVER. They have a knack for finding the right type of player to fit their system, and they get the most they can out of them in 2 - 3 years. Then they replace him with another player of worth. When you look at a guy like Stephen Jackson, who first came to fame with that first Spurs title team, the organization took a hard line, and refused to overpay for the guy. Bruce Bowen was his eventual replacement. A cheaper, just as good of a 3 point shooting, and better defending version of S-Jax. The result: they don't lose a beat as a team, while retaining a ton of money to re-sign Duncan, Parker, and Ginoboli. Question #1 for Hawksquawk: Can the shooting of Jeremy Richardson, the defense of Mario West, and the increased presence of Acie Law on the floor, more than make up for the possible loss of Childress? If the answer of that question is YES, the ASG may just let Chill walk. Possible lineup and breakdown of minutes. PG: Bibby ( 26 minutes ) - Acie ( 22 min ) G: JJ ( 24 min ) - JR ( 10 min ) - West ( 10 min ) - Bibby ( 4 min ) F: Marvin ( 34 min ) - JJ ( 14 min ) PF: Smith ( 36 min ) - Horford ( 12 min ) C: Horford ( 24 min ) - Zaza ( 16 min ) - Kwame ( 8 min ) Total player minutes: JJ - 38 Smith - 36 Horford - 36 Marvin - 34 Bibby - 30 Acie - 22 Zaza - 16 JR - 10 Mario - 10 Kwame - 8 With Mario's and JR's playing time, it would be game specific. Mario would play more when we needed tough defense. JR would play when we're playing a run and gun team. But the question is, could the production we receive from them and Acie, trump what we got from Chill? And that brings us to Smith. Question #2: Can Horford and Marvin elevate their games to the point where Smith isn't missed at all? Contrary to popular belief, losing Smith isn't a doomsday scenario. People thought the same thing when Nash left Dallas and when Iverson left Philly. The key in both of those situations, is that they had a guy, or multiple guys who stepped up and compensated for the loss of that great player. For us, that would have to be Horford and Marvin offensively making up for what Smith brought, and Zaza playing with the tenacity on the defensive end he showed in the playoffs. PG: Bibby ( 24 min ) - Law ( 24 min ) G: JJ ( 38 min ) - Chill ( 6 min ) - Bibby ( 4 min ) F: Marvin ( 24 min ) - Chill ( 24 min ) PF: Horford ( 30 min ) - Marvin ( 12 min ) - Jones ( 6 min ) C: Zaza ( 28 min ) - Kwame ( 12 min ) - Horford ( 8 min ) Total minutes: JJ - 38 Horford - 38 Marvin - 36 Bibby - 28 Zaza - 28 Chill - 30 Law - 24 Kwame - 12 Jones - 10 In the Smith leaving scenario, you're really looking at our frontline being under the gun to elevate their games. Horford and Marvin have to become more efficent scorers, even volume scorers at times. And if you noticed, a guy like Solomon Jones becomes more important than a Richardson or West, if Smith isn't retained. In both scenarios, the opportunity for guys to step up and elevte their games will be there . . much like Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Jermaine O'Neal and Joe Johnson, and a host of other players who have gotten opportunities to step up.

Quote: Now when you consider the makeup of LAC's team as is... they have: BDiddy, Thornton, and Kaman. They also drafted DeAndre Jordan. Their need is really PF and SG. They pick up Camby. Camby is not going to play PF. Why would they stop Smoove negotiations and possibility for Camby? My feeling is that they can match camby with Jordan and have their C and trade Kaman. Camby's natural position is probably PF anyway. He's a little too thin to handle the big centers. He can still get his block shots, but decent scoring centers usually have little trouble scoring on Camby. Offensively, Camby's game is pretty much the 12 - 18 foot jumper. He essentially plays like a PF, even though he plays center. Put him beside Kaman, and you have a good defensive frontline. Camby also doesn't take potential shots away from Kaman. The same wouldn't be true if they added Smith. If Dunleavy likes the prospect of adding Camby's defense to the mix, I could easily see the Clips not doing anything else. Camby's presence also gives them an athletic center to play against those teams that like to run and gun. I think the Clips are out of the Smith sweepstakes.

If I worked in Atlanta or even in Nashville, there's a chance i could get that feed on my phone, becasue of AT&T's 3G network internet connection. But because I don't live in a 3G area, I have the equivalent of a dial-up connection for my PDA.

Quote: Quote: Please keep giving updates as well as you can. And let me guess, they're not showing a score at all? there's a scoreboard on the screen.U can't watch it on your computer? I'm at work. My company literally stripped everybody of their internet access about a month ago. Really, they did it after the Final Four, because there were so many salary and hourly people watching the Championship Game online during production hours. We have a company intranet website that we can access, and some of us knew how to access the entire internet through that site. But they've even blocked that now. 85% of the stuff I post on Hawksquawk, is through my Samsung Blackjack PDA phone. LOL . . the young college aged women in the department that I oversee, constantly think I'm on here texting women. And I am . . . about 15% of the time. The other 85%, I'm debating on Hawksquawk . . LOL.

Please keep giving updates as well as you can. And let me guess, they're not showing a score at all?

Quote: Quote: At PG, we have a combo of Bibby and Acie as dessert At SG, it's usually JJ, with a tall glass of Chill At SF, it's a combo of Marvin and Chill as the appetizer At PF, it's Smith, with a side order of Horford and Marvin At C, it's Horford and Zaza in small portions. That's the group we roll with. wtf WTF you mean wtf? Is that not our rotation?

I'll tell you something else too Peoria. The real difference between the Hawks and Blazers last year were: 1) they beat us twice in 2 very close games If we sweep those 2 games, we have identical records. Plus, people never want to factor in that the Hawks, after they clinched the playoff berth, played their bench much more than they would've normaly played. We easily take that Miami team out, had we had the normal rotation playing in the game. But people want to may like their 41 win season was significantly better than our 37 win season. It's like saying a 60 win team is significantly better than a 56 win team, or that a 23 win team is significantly better than a 19 win team.

Quote: I like how "bench" is treated like one player too. The fact is that I think JJ is probably a little better than Roy (even though Roy had better numbers, Joe was injured or something) and Smith is probably better than LMA, I'd give Portland the advantage at those positions because whoever they have playing backup at the 2 and 4 beat whoever we have (no one). I count the bench separately because you can't give the bench equal weight along the starters. Just look at the breakdown. One of the main reasons why Portland is cnsidered to have a strong bench, is that they have very few standout players within the starting lineup that is deserving of playing major minutes. At PG, they don't have a guy worthy of commanding 30+ minutes a game, because neither of those guys are head and shoulders better than the other . . . hence . . . the reason they got Bayless. At SF, it's the same thing. Same thing at center. As for their bench, Outlaw and Frye are very good players to bring off the bench. Everybody else has their moments, like most bench players. A bench is important, but if you don't have good starters across the board, you'll still have problems. That was my main beef with AJ running the point. A lot of times, he was the weakest link. And the position as a whole was a weak link because of Acie's injury situation. When people assess lineups, you need to assess the people that actually play, not just the bodies on the roster. At PG, we have a combo of Bibby and Acie as dessert At SG, it's usually JJ, with a tall glass of Chill At SF, it's a combo of Marvin and Chill as the appetizer At PF, it's Smith, with a side order of Horford and Marvin At C, it's Horford and Zaza in small portions. That's the group we roll with. Now if you want to add a Jeremy Richardson in a discussion on who is better overall at SG, knock yourself out. But keep in mind that he doesn't play nearly often enough to even be discussed.

Quote: So you wouldn't trade Bibby for Bayless or Horford for Oden (disregarding salaries)? No. As players, give me Bibby over Bayless. Bayless may be real good in 3 years, but right now, I'd much rather have Bibby running the show. People thought Conley and Acie would have no trouble transitioning to the NBA, and they struggled in their rookie year. I expect Bayless to do the same. Bayless may not even be in the starting lineup to begin the year. And Oden? Hell no. The same worries people have with Acie and his propensity to get injured, are the same concerns you have to have with Oden. I kind of agree with NJHAWK, when he says that at best, Oden will have a career similar to Dikembe Mutumbo. He may put up numbers slightly better than Dikembe, but his defensive numbers should be comparable to Dikembe's, if he stays healthy. Quote: Given that Roy made the All-Star team in his second season in a much tougher conference the gap between him and JJ (if there is one) isn't very big. I agree. I love Brandon Roy's game. That being said, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I'm taking JJ. He's just a little more versatile of a player than Roy. To me, picking between JJ and Roy, is like picking between Deron and Paul. Paul may get all of the accolades, but that doesn't mean that Deron is far below him, because he isn't. the 3 spot is their weakness but it is also the easiest spot to fill on a roster.

Quote: Sorry, but you are clearly a blind homer with that type of analysis. Hawk88 Well, let's debate this. Tell me where you think I am wrong?

PG: Bibby vs any PG on that roster - advantage Bibby G: JJ vs Roy - advantage JJ F: Marvin vs Webster - advantage Marvin PF: Smith vs Aldridge - advantage Smith C: Horford vs Oden - advantage Horford . . . until Oden proves otherwise and until he can stay healthy Bench: advantage Portland

Quote: Shelden and AJ too... LOL Woody actually gave into AJ, after that stunt he pulled in pre-season. If that would've been any other Hawk that did that, they would've been suspended. LOL . . let Salim pull that stunt, and they may have waived him right then and there. BK and the ASG should've sat AJ down, and flat out told him that he was the 3rd PG, no matter what. But they let Woody handle it, and he gave AJ a chance in preseason to get some PT. And AJ played well enough to be named the starter, with Acie as the backup, and Lue as the hired gun off the bench. The move worked for a while, but AJ just didn't have starting PG talent. He had the leadership to run the spot, but not the talent. With Shelden, that's totally on him. People forget that he DOMINATED the RMR summer league last year. He had every chance to win the starting spot at center. Both he and Zaza had that chance. But Horford outworked them both. Then, all Woody asked both of them to do, is come into a game, bang people around, rebound and play defense. And neither of them did that in the regular season. Shelden can sulk and blame whomever he wants, but the fact is that when he got into the game, he didn't do his job. If he had the work ethic of his woman, he may have been our version of Jason Maxiell. And I was both a Shelden and Salim supporter. But they have no one to blame, but themselves.

Quote: I don't think that means he doesn't like Woody. Smith is a VERY emotional person on the court. He gets very upset when things aren't going well, and he's just mad overall and not necessarily at the coach or showing dis-interest in the coach. I've seen the guy since high school when he was at McEachern, he's ALWAYS been like that. He's a very emotional person and if he isn't playing well, he gets emotional. I don't think he's doing it out of hate for the coach. When people are mad and upset at something that's went wrong, they don't want someone in their face telling them what they did wrong, they KNOW what they did. I've snapped at good friends before for stuff like that. 10 minutes later I'm fine. All I'm saying, is it's hard to be nice when you're pissed off. Atlas, come on now. We're not talking about friends or co-workers on the same level here. We're talking about coach and player. That's what coaches do . . . get in your ish . . . especially if you keep doing the same bad ish over and over. Like it or not, Smith makes more bad passes and takes more ill-advised shots than anyone on the team. So of course a coach is going to show his displeasure toward Smith. If he doesn't like it, Smith needs to stop doing the things that gets him talked to. LOL . . it's funny. One of my co-workers, who is a die hard UT Volunteers fan, absolutely hates when Phil Fulmer does that . . "that's OK, we'll get them next time" clap . . right after the team turns the ball over, doesn't get a 1st down, or misses a FG. In Phil's defense, it's the assistant coaches that do all the yelling and correcting at the players. But my co-worker would much rather see Phil whine like Spurrier, and see him correct the player right there on the spot.

Quote: The vast majority of casual fans in the city LOVE Smith, to most fans he is the face of the franchise. Outside of Atlanta he is as well known, if not moreso, than Joe. That's not true AT ALL. We're not on TV enough for people to know who Smith is over JJ. Smith is still living off of the slam dunk contest notierity. But you forget that JJ played on a pretty good Phoenix team 4 years ago, and got plenty of exposure then. Shoot, Boris Diaw is more well known than Smoove. And if you really want to get real with it, Mike Bibby is probably the "national face of the franchise" right now. When the NBA were doing those split-faced commercials during the playoffs, which Hawk did they use? They didn't use Smith . . or JJ . . they used Bibby.

Name someone that can replace Chill? And until Marvin and Smith start making a big time effort to help Horford grab offensive rebounds, we need Chill here.

no.