TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: thats true about Smith but he's only 22 and he can get better at his jumpshooting. Kobe didnt have a jumper when he first came in the nba but look at him now....mvp material I still say we put him at sf and get a real C Smith's Effective FG% on his jumpshot in his 4 years in the league: Rookie: 28% 2nd yr: 37% 3rd yr: 31% 4th yr: 31% ( remember, in the eFG%, a made 3-pointer counts as 1.5 FG ) The guys that are great shooters around the league, will have an eFG above 50%. Your good shooters will be between 45% - 50% Your average shooters will be between 40% - 45% Your bad shooters will be between 35% - 40% Your horrible shooters will be under 35% The fact is that Smith is one of THE WORST jumpshooters in the league . . period. Even if he improves to his 2nd year level, he's still going to be a bad jumpshooter. He's as good as he is right now, because he's playing the 4, and he's taking people off the dribble more often. Because of that, he's also drawing more fouls and getting to the FT line. I just cringe everytime someone mentions anything about Smith playing the 3. I'd rather for him to play center, than small forward.

Quote: Scot Pollard, Devean George, and Tyronn Lue. Gets your blood going, huh? This is the reality of the Bibby trade. If that were the George and Pollard of 6 - 7 years ago, I wouldn't mind that at all. I could really see one of AJ or Lue coming back here for one year though. Acie's play in summer league might determine that. If i had a choice, it'll probably be AJ, due to his ability to defend the point and some 2-guards. He would ONLY play when Law or Bibby were just flat out stinking up the court.

Quote: They're not paying the luxury tax. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this, but I'll do it every time necessary this summer. You need to be looking at guys 30+ who will sign for the vet minimum, already have a ring, and likely live in the Atlanta area. That means we're bringing Anthony Johnson back, although I don't think AJ has a ring. Lue has a ring though. So who else will be on the roster along with Lue next year?

Too bad we can't get Brand.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Salim is simply not a very good player (sorry JB)...He's a one trick pony and he often misses the trick. He will do well at the YMCA. Adios Amigo. another BK draft mistake. from draft analysis: Defense: Largely undistinguished defender. Limited by his size, quickness, poor wingspan, and lack of effort. and that's why you're a Hawks fan.There are plenty one dimensional players in thie league but they have coaches that know how to use them and define their single role on the team.We have a horrible coach that has no clue and it just makes Salim and others look awful. You can't blame Mike Woodson because Salim didn't make shots. And that's exactly what these guys do. I'm watching the movie "Asteriod" on Sci-Fi channel right now, and Woody would get blamed for the asteroid about to hit Kansas City. And they wonder why people call them "haters". Next to JB, I've been one of Salim's biggest fans. But even I had to come to the realization that the Hawks can't afford to let Salim take 4 shots before he finally makes one. LOL @ placing fault on Woody because he said that in order for Salim to stay on the floor, he has to make shots. That's Salim ONLY job . . to make shots. So when you can't make shots, especially the wide open shots, the guy becomes a liability. I guess these guys would rather give Salim 10 - 15 minutes a game, regardless of what he does, and cut JJ's minutes down to 35. Forget that. If a guy like Salim is going to go 1 - 5 . . 2 - 7 FG, I'd much rather play JJ 40+ minutes a game. A specialist like Salim has to come in and IMMEADIATELY make shots.

I've said all along that Memphis was NOT trying to add significant payroll ever since that Gasol trade. They're doing exactly what we did back in the summer of 2004. You do away with all of the old remnants of the losing team, and replace them with cheap, very good young talent and/or expiring contracts. But you operate on the cheap at least for a year or two, before you try to add major upgrades free agent wise to the squad. With the financial situation that their franchise is in, I'd be SHOCKED if they did anything significant to bring in a high-priced free agent into the mix. When they add Gasol, they'll have 13 players under contract ( 12 actually on the team ) and be around 47 million in payroll. I don't see them going over 50 million in payroll this year, when it's all said and done. Lineup: PG - Conley G - Mayo F - Gay PF - Warrick C - Gasol Bench: G - Lowry G - Critt G/F - Jarik F - Walker C - Darko Arthur Buckner Yeah, they definitely have room for a Josh Smith in payroll and in the lineup. But I think they might be done, and wait until next year to get a big time free agent. If Gasol can step right in and contribute at a higher level than Darko did last year, that will be huge for them this year. Smoove did destroy them in the 2 games we played against them though, and they may remember that, and want him on their squad. I'd still be shocked if they made a move like that though.

The problem is consistency. It seems with him that he has great games, coupled with a few bad games. If he were a consistent 16 - 20 ppg . . 8 - 10 rebound guy a night, that shot a decent percentage, it wouldn't be a problem at all. But there are no 5's to be trading Smith for, because no one wants to trade a quality 5. No one. Why would another team trade their quality 5, to bring in Smith, and essentially play 2 PFs like we're doing? I think some of you are going to be surprised with Horford's play at the 5 next year. He may very well make this discussion moot. The truth is that the combination of Smith and Horford may already be a top 10, and definitely a top 15 C & PF combination. Stoudamire & O'Neal ( a dream offensive frontline, if healthy, but fairly weak defensively ) Howard & Lewis ( only flaw is that Lewis plays like a SF instead of a PF ) Bosh & O'Neal ( on paper, potentially the best offensive group ) Okur & Boozer ( solid all-around, just wish Okur was more of a post presence ) Wallace & McDyess ( no glaring weaknesses, other than Sheed's attitude and shot selection . . lol . . that's a glaring weakness though ) KG & Perkins ( best defensive group ) Brand & Kaman ( potentially a top 5 group, let's see how Kaman plays with Brand ) Bynum & Gasol ( another potentially top 5 group, with Bynum the wild card ) Chandler & West ( probably underraded by me and should be in the top 6 ) Smith & Horford ( one of the best rebounding and probably the most athletic group ) Yao & Scola ( may have to move them up, if Scola keeps developing into a nice PF ) Nowitski & Dampier ( Should easily be a top 10 group, but Damp is so sorry sometimes ) Duncan & Oberto ( Oberto is just a fill-in at PF, while Duncan is the real force on the frontline ) Camby & Martin ( No reason why this group shouldn't be in the top 10, but they underachieve bad ) Oden & Aldridge ( Can't anoint Oden the next great center, until he plays an actual NBA game )

The #1 goal of this offseason is re-signing Josh Smith, with #2 being re-signing Chill. Not worrying about who will be our #9 - #12 guys via trading for a draft pick. Just wanted to remind some of you of that.

Quote: Are we talking about the same James Jones I know, that has never even scored 10ppg? And you want him to start?? Exactly. And once he got here, people would quickly grow to despise "JJ2" ( as Phoenix fans used to call him ), because he's strictly one-dimensional and is a poor defender. Like Chill, he needs to be wide open for his jumper, to be effective, because he sure in the hell isn't creating his own shot. In essence, he's nothing more than a taller version of Damon Jones.

Quote: 2. I'm sure that even if Denver were willing to trade him they would want more than Lamar Odom and Marvin out of it... They would ask for a legit star in return (Someone of Paul Pierce's value). We all know that Melo probably isn't going anywhere. But to gain a borderline star in Odom, and a nice young player in Marvin, would be enough to get Melo out of there if they were really tired of him. Iverson JR Smith Marvin Odom Camby I guarantee you that GMs around the league don't think that Marvin is some garbage player, like some think on this board.

That's probably the best trade I've seen on this board, that works for every team. If Denver got back Odom and Marvin, they'd probably do this in a heartbeat. Melo instantly makes us better, no doubt about that. The wildcard are the Lakers, because while they'd gain Bibby, the deal only works if Bynum can come back at full strength and play like he did before he got hurt. If push came to shove, they could trot out a Bibby - Fisher - Bryant backcourt. Fisher is good enough defensively to guard 2s and kobe can guard the 3. Plus, with Bibby's contract coming off the books at the end of the season, that would entice them as well.

Quote: JO is going to make Toronto one of the softest teams in the league and don't forget that he will miss at least 20 games leaving Bosh to play center. Funny you should say that. A guy I talk a lot of NBA with at work, thinks this will make Toronto worse as well. In fact, he wanted to bet another guy in our convo that the Raptors wouldn't win more than 40 games next year. He immeadiately cited O'Neal's FG%, which was lower than all of our frontline players ( 44% ). Then he asked who will play center between O'Neal and Bosh, since O'Neal is much more comfortable at the 4. Add in the injuries, and the team not willing to play consistent defense, he's not a believer at all in O'Neal in Toronto.

All of these negative comments are interesting. Kind of validates some of the points I made a few weeks back about some of the fans.

Quote: without J-Smoove this team gets scored on at will. Just look at when he's in the game and not in the game. When he's not in the game teams just drive to the hoop with ease. When he's in there even the top tier players think twice before driving to the hole with Josh there. The kid is only 22 and brings more to the table then most players I've ever seen. Yes. he's still a little raw offensively but look at what he brings to the table defensively. Im tired of hearing all this crap about how yall want him traded. If this team doesn't have Smoove then we get ran out of the gym everynight with even the sorriest teams scoring 120 on us. That only happens if our GM doesn't bring in a guy that can either defend his man in the post, or doesn't bring in a decent shot blocker. A guy who benefits tremendously from Smith not being here, is Solomon Jones. He's a guy that could become that shot blocking threat for 10 - 15 minutes a game, and during special circumstances where we may need a defensive stop at the end of a game. So say the Hawks can only get a shooter + draft picks in a sign and trade with Philly. The Hawks would still need to go out and get a defensive big for depth. This could very well be your rotation next year minus a Smith: PG - Bibby ( 24 min ) - Acie ( 24 min ) G - JJ ( 34 min ) - Chill ( 10 min ) - Bibby ( 4 min ) F - Marvin ( 24 min ) - Chill ( 20 min ) - JJ ( 4 min ) PF - Horford ( 20 min ) - Solo ( 14 min ) - Marvin ( 14 min ) C - Zaza ( 18 min ) - Horford ( 18 min ) - Diop ( 12 min ) Minutes per player: JJ - 38 Horford - 38 Marvin - 38 Chill - 30 Bibby - 28 Acie - 24 Zaza - 18 Solo - 14 Diop - 12 That's a solid 9-man rotation that could definitely work, depending on how solid a contribution Zaza, Diop and Solo could give us every night. And this isn't factoring in a potential shooter, who could take minutes away from Chill or Law or one of the big guys. With that rotation, you'd expect Solo to see most of his minutes against the running/athletic teams, while Diop would get burn against the physical frontlines. Of course, I'd rather have Smith here. But it's farrrrrrr from the end of the world if our GM does his job and get the right role players in here to round the team out better.

Since Law and Horford's unofficial nickname is "Law and Order", rename the "Highlight Factory" to "The Hall of Justice". Start calling JJ "Judge Johnson", playing off of his initials. His play determines the fate of the Hawks anyway, so the name fits him. I guess that would make Marvin "the Sheriff" . . or better yet, call him "The Prosecutor". Bibby would be "Dime the Bounty Hunter".

Quote: What's funny is that I don't believe we have been graced with Northcyde's opinion yet... 7 Here's something even more funnier. Outside of the first few posts in which that Spurs fan congratuated us, I didn't even bother to peep the thread again, until today, because of the numerous posts. I wanted to see what should be "bookmarked". I'm still reading the thread, so I might say something later.

Quote: The original post smacks so much of arrogance, cockiness and a downright condescending nature that it reminds me of one of my favorite posters, northcyde. Josh Smith still has a lot of holes in his game and by no means is a "sign by any cost" type player. However, the kid is 22, works hard in the offseason to improve his game, and appears to be a legit all-star contender if he pulls everything together. Should we re-sign him? You bet. Should we do so if the price range gets ridiculous, say 16, 17 mill per? Probably not. But do you get a bona fide star in return who will make similar impact if that happens? It will be hard to do so at that price and with that talent, but you better damn find a way. Glad to see that I'm one of your favorite posters. I try to be one of the "voices of reason" on this board, and not let emotions dictate my decision making. Personally, i think people just need to calm down a little on this Smith issue. It is way too early to get hyped up about what teams can potentially do. Let's see what happens on draft night, and go from there. But as usual, the Squawk loves to go into hysteria before it is even necessary.

Quote: The way you can tell a Hawks fan is someone who doesn't care what name is on the back, they just want a team they can be proud to support. Sure, you can have your favorite player, but if you are a fan of the team, then it truly shouldn't matter who ultimately wears your team's colors. I personally can't stand Antoine Walker. I have disliked him since his rookie season and practically cried when the Hawks acquired him. But I still cheered for him to make every ugly shot he took as a Hawk. There were Hawk fans before Smith was born and there will be Hawk fans when he leaves. All of this passion for a player who has won less than 35% of his 300+ NBA games. And we're supposed to measure our fandom based on our willingness to max him out? PUH-LEASE! Someone in Toronto probably had the same feelings about Vince Carter and discovered that the franchise could both survive and thrive without an exciting star to draw those fans who require a highlight-worthy slam to appreciate the game. Ditto on the Walker comment. I know why they made the trade, and I could endure him for one year, but it was H-A-R-D to root for that guy while he was a Hawk. Walker is the classic "high talent, low BBIQ" type player. What made him worse, is that he thought he was much, much better than what he truly was. I never doubted his passion to win, because he did care about winning. It's just that he'd always try to make a superstar-like play at the absolute wrong time, whether it be an ill-advised 3-pointer or a perfect pass through trafic. He was never content on just making the "right" play. Toine definitely had talent though. He just didn't know how to harness it all.

Quote: Most of the time but not always. I think that in that first game Perkins got into early foul trouble and there were times when KG was guarding Horford. That was also the game in which Smith got in early foul trouble and Woody sat him down for almost the entire 2nd quarter, if not all of it. That forced Horford to play the 4 a lot that game.

For the record, I cast my vote for Horford. I tried to imagine which squad would function better. Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Smith and Zaza . . . . or . . . . Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Horford, and Zaza. From that standpoint, I have to go with Horford over Smith. But neither of those squads are better than having Horford at center and Smith at PF.

. . or at least it should be. (( beat: "A Milli" - Lil Wayne )) What is this that I hear, from the desert/ Sound like idle chatter/ Talkin' all that ish/ Like your words and phrases really matter/ Diesel wanna clown/ But inside he has a frown/ Cause he let the Phoenix Suns/ get beat down into the ground/ Exit stage left in the first round/ While I'm in the Finals/ They banished you from South Beach cause you played just like Harold Minor/ Shoot a free throw, it's a brick/ Desert people gettin sick/ Icy Hot can't make you better/ Duncan got you turning tricks/ Like a hooker/ You're used and abused and one-dimensional/ Stealing $20 mill-i-on/ Like a slick cha-mel-i-on/ Superman can't handle business/ now he's so divorced/ Don't blame me, cause that trainer rode your girl just like a horse/ Big Brown had her screamin'/ And you still calling her "honey"/ It's so funny, you the dummy/ Judge gave her half of your money/ Black Mamba failed once/ But he will not fail twice/ And we runnin straight through Phoenix/ put your azz straight on ice . . . and that's REAL Mutha (( bleepa )) I'm FIERCE !!!!

If i were Smith, I would've turned that offer down as well. Even if the ASG offered 5 yr - 60 mill, I would've turned that down. He knew he was going to be given every chance to succeed last season. If he had a good year, he was going to get paid. He made the right decision. Now the ASG needs to decide what to do, which shouldn't be hard. For them not to match any offer for Smoove, must mean they really, really, love Chill. And I'll post something shocking tomorrow that may illustrate why.

We can definitely win with a Horford/Smith combo. If the both become tougher and smarter, both could be very successful. It's funny though. Phoenix fans would probably KILL to have the Amare/Marion combo back, instead of the Shaq/Amare combo. If Smith had Marion's toughness, this whole contract issue would be a no-brainer.

64% for Horford after 48 votes. That is truly shocking to me. I think Horford's consistency in the playoffs had a lot to do with this vote. It was feast or famine with Smith, while Horford, for the most part, was steady in the playoffs. Losing Smith, to me, is only an option if we can replace him with a big who can board, rebound, block shots, and score at a decent clip ( Okafor ) . . or a big that is an offensive offensive demon in the low and/or high posts, that can also do most of the things that Smith does ( Brand ). Smith is too important to this team defensively to just let slip away without someone significant taking his place. This team would miss his shot blocking prescence tremendously, if we didn't bring in a guy to replace that skill he brought to every game.

Quote: Their games are VERY similar and in fact, I seem to recall Smoove saying he wanted to play an all-around game like Kirilenko. Before Boozer, Kirilenko played PF and averaged a Smoove-like 17 ppg, 8 rbg, 3 apg, 3 bpg and 2 spg. Then Boozer came along and Kirilenko's effectiveness slipped dramtically. If Horford can become Boozer at the 4, it might not be all bad but I wouldn't want to pay Smoove $12M a season for the 11 ppg, 5 rbg, 4 apg, 1.5 bpg, 1.2 spg that Kirilenko averaged last year. We certainly have a dliemna if indeed Horford could be Boozer at PF. That said, I think Smoove is going to be a LOT bigger and stronger than Kirilenko ever was at PF and he might end up being better than Boozer at PF too, just different. For now, my vote is start them like we start them now and let matchups throughout the game dictate how and where play them. The time MAY come when one of them needs to be traded but I don't think that time is now. Let them grow together and see what happens. Trace, i started a post about this very subject last summer. And I laid out the exact Boozer/Kirilenko scenario for Smoove. My point was if Horford was a better 4 than Smoove, we have 3 options: 1) move Smoove to center, because of his shot blocking prescence 2) move Smoove to SF ( edit: I had said PF at first, but saw my mistake ), but limit what he does on offense 3) bring him off the bench and let him be the "super sub", ala a young Robert Horry, and let him do everything. While Horford's best position may be the 4, I don't think he's better at that position RIGHT NOW than Smith. And I think a Horford - Smith - Marvin frontline is better than a Zaza - Horford - Smith frontline . . or any other mediocre center you want to put in place of Zaza. Put Smith at the 3, and you'll have to tell him to scale back his offensive production. If you don't, he's going to revert back to taking even more jumpers that he can't make. When Sloan basically told AK47 to do that, it didn't sit well with him at all . . and AK is actually a better shooter than Smith. If people remember, Kirilenko went into such a funk offensively, that it affected his mindset defensively, and was making him an ineffective player. Trade rumors swirled all around him a few years back because of his poor play. It even got to the point to where Sloan was opting to go with Harpring at the end of games, because he could shoot better and wasn't a bad defender. Could you imagine the khaos on this board, if Smith started to play so bad at SF, that Woody would have to go with Marvin? So to me, it's not about which player is better at what position, it's about which frontline as a unit is better. Horford and Smith play very well together. Smith just needs to get tougher.