TheNorthCydeRises

Good Lord Diesel. Everybody who consistently watches the Hawks knows that playing Smith at the 3 limits his effectiveness on both ends of the court. Smith at the 3 is a limited SF that can possibly post up smaller SFs if he develops a sound post game, but can't shoot well enough or handle the ball in the halfcourt offense well enough to be an effective weapon on offense. On defense, he doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay with slasher type SFs. You have accused Ex of not watching the games in the past, yet, you act like you don't watch the games at times. People have seen enough of Smoove either at the 3, or going off of a switch to guard a 3, to know that he shouldn't be playing that positiion if we want him to be an impact player The only issue I see in all of this, is finding minutes at PF for Horford. Whenever Smith is out, I want Horford at the PF. And that's only if whomever our backup center can effectively play 12 - 18 minutes at the center spot.

Quote: You guys have it all wrong. You can't look to have a future without a contiinuous crop of young players who can play. If for nothing else but development and trade, we need young guys even moreso than Vets. Here's the deal, look at a team like Denver. They are vet filled. NO young guys on the horizon. They will meet their end and have no turnaround. Whereas a team like GS or a team like PTL has so many young guys that they can use them to trade for needed vets. That's all Boston did. They parlayed the young guys that they had developed along with some ending contracts into good vets. We're crying for vets, vets... but let's not neglect the chance to get young guys. Diesel, we are going to have plenty of draft picks to add to this team in the coming years. Adding a late 1st round rookie is nowhere near as good of a move, than adding a solid vet that you know that can play. Especially not right now. I've seen a lot of Shan Foster, and I wouldn't mind one bit if the Hawks brought him into camp if he goes undrafted. And people have to remember this about Zaza. Until we get a capable defensive or all-around decent backup center, Zaza HAS to be a part of this team because he's the biggest body on the squad. And yoy talk about Denver like they're some abysmal failure or something. That team was a top 10 squad in the NBA last year. But they can't get over the hump come playoff time because they don't have any good on-the-ball defenders. They need to stop playing a true PG alongside Iverson, and let him run the point. Denver might be better off putting a devensive 2 alongside Iverson, like a Trenton Hassell or even a Mario West, than those marginal PG like Anthony Carter.

Quote: No for so many reasons: 1)We dont need another no-defense playing cat on our team 2)Do you really want an immature distraction like Melo on your team--especially in a city like ATL? 3) He would cost WAAAAAAAAY too much 4) Why get him when we can go after others like Richard Jefferson who is a much more experienced player and a surefire leader and vet? 5) There are way better options out there. Not every superstar is a fit for every team. We need to think about cohesiveness and veteran leadership...I doubt Anthony would provide either for our very young group. Starting lineup: G - Bibby G - JJ ( all-star ) F - Melo ( all-star ) F - Smith ( potential all-star ) F/C - Horford

There was a game in the 06 - 07 season in which the Hawks played Phoenix, I believe, in February. It was a very entertaining game in which the Hawks lost toward the end, mainly because no one could stop Amare. During the 2nd quarter of that broadcast, Smitty and Phoenix color commentator Eddie Johnson switched sides to do color commentary for the other side for about 1/2 the quarter ( I believe both networks were FOX Sports Net affiliates ) When Eddie came to our side, he ranted and raved about our young team, JJ, and then talked about Smith. He made almost the EXACT same comparison that you did with Smith and Odom offensively. That was the first time I'd heard someone compare those two, and it made perfect sense. Both have a finesse type game about them that makes them special as big men. Eddie also noted Smith's vision and willingness to pass. But here's what concerns me about Smith, and it has always been criticizm about Odom. HIS SOFTNESS Too oftentimes, both of these guys come up weak around the rim. It's a scoop-shot here. A flip-shot there. Pump-faking when they both should just go straight up and either draw the contact or just dunk it. And when both goes up against a player more physical than them, they both don't elevate their intensity and sometimes allow the physical player to completely take them out of their game. Smith, especially on the boards, comes up weak at times because he can't match the physical play of the opponent. You saw that firsthand with Odom, and especially Gasol in the BOS - LA series. It's the softness issue that prevents Lamar from being a true star player. And it might do the same with Smith. But if some of Horford's toughness starts to rub off on Smith, watch out.

Quote: Quote: Things are never as bad as they appear, unless it's clear that you have an agenda. Corrected LOL.

Quote: We are now sitting with no draft pick. The final work that BK got us to was 37 regular season wins with his coach. I have said this before and I have talked about it with my old boss (since retired - Providence fan)...the key to make paychecks is to get a team SO LOW (13 wins...laughingstock) that it looks good when you double it to 26 . Now we all know that 26 wins is still laughingstock status...but apparently BK could sell it. Then another season out of the playoffs and then 37!!!! 37!! Holy Cow 37 wins !! There are five levels of NBA basketball teams: Laughingstock (26 wins or below) Bad (27 to 36 wins) Inconsistent (37 wins to 45 wins) Good (46 wins to 55 wins) Championship contender (55 wins and above...meaning 55-27)..............this is E.C. If it makes you feel any better, you can view Law as our '08 draft pick. The reality is that BK, with some of his flaws in building this team, actually did a very good thing with that Harrington trade for Indy's 1st round pick. That pick gave us Law, an extra lottery pick and potentially the best PG in the draft last year. In essence, BK got back the draft pick he gave to Phoenix in the JJ deal, with that move. Not having a draft pick this year also helps us in our free agency dealings. So it all balances out. As for your 5 levels of an NBA team, we've gone up one progression in each of the last 4 seasons. I actually think there should be a level under laughingstock, called "no hope", for those teams that win less than 20 games. 13 - no hope 26 - laughingstock 30 - bad 37 - inconsistent So next year, we'll move up to"good". Things are never as bad as they appear, unless it's clear that you are regressing.

If the situation arises where the Hawks have a total player salary that is 1 million over the threshold, you're talkng about $500K in luxury tax money, right? If that's the case, I wouldn't think the ASG would flat out refuse to retain Chill over a luxury tax number like that. I would hope not at least.

Diesel, it's about players playing to their strengths. I agree that we need a back to the basket prescence and that Horford needs to continue to try to do that. But if he's going to be our starting center, he's better off taking that 15 foot jumper or taking his man off the dribble. Now when he's at the 4, I definitely want him to try to score on people down on the low block. Horford shot almost 40% on this jumper last year, whic is pretty dang good for a guy his size. We still need a potential go-to guy offensively, whenever JJ gets a rest. So if Horford can get 6 - 8 points during the time when JJ is out, that will enable him to score close to 15 ppg. If Smith or Marvin can do it at this time, you'll see one of them approach 20 ppg.

I personally think that the luxury tax issue isn't nearly the big deal to the Hawks/ASG, as people are making it out to be. When they made the decision to go get Bibby, that was a clear indication to me that the might be willing to go into luxury tax land for at least one year. And even if we do go into that zone, you're not talking about paying much of that tax at all. Here's something to think about. I don't know what Woody's extension looks like, but i wouldn't guess he got a major increase in salary. So what if the ASG basically says to Sund that he has 75 - 77 million to work with next season, and to not go over that mark. This includes salaries for players, coaches, and the amount figured in to pay any luxury tax. I agree that the more we have to pay Smith, the more re-signing Chill may become an issue. At the most, Chill gets a 5 year - 35 million dollar deal that starts him out closer to 6 million than it does to 7 million. His agent or Sund may negotiate a shorter term deal, and may even give Chill a player option in the last year of the deal. And if we're going to be paying Andersen 5 million per, he damn well better be a player. I personally can't see the Hawks paying that much for him. I expect a Zaza-like deal for him that maybe only extends for 3 years. No way I'm paying him 5+ million, but losing Chill. I would be pizzed if that happened. Whatever the case, i think Sund and the ASG already know what they want to spend and who they want to spend it on. And because you're potentially looking at around 20+ million in salary dropping off the books next year, the luxury tax issue for this year may not be a big deal at all.

AHF, I understand everyone's concerns regarding Woody. And I agree, barring a major injury or multiple injuries that keep guys out for weeks at a time, there's no excuse for us to be a sub .500 ballclub. But people have to understand that for the first time in his tenure, we're actually going to have decent talent at all 5 starting positions. This will be the first time that the starting lineup has no glaring holes. Each player may have a weakness, but all of them are solid players. I think that alone is going to be huge for us. If we an get 2 - 3 other bench players to contrbute on a nightly basis, outside of Chill, we'll be good to go. Hopefully that will come in the form of Acie, Zaza, and Andersen ( or whomever else we may pick up ) People try to downplay that playoff run, but that was huge for every guy on that squad. They now know what level they have to play at every night, in order to get it done. It was their first time as a unit getting to the playoffs. It was JJ's first time as being "the guy" in the playoffs. Even Woody will learn from that playoff experience, as being the head coach, and not the assistant. I think they all want to experience the thrill of being in the playoffs again. It'll be the thing that motivates all of them, players and coaches.

Quote: I seem to remember a game last year vs. portland where roy made jj look pretty bad. He was taking him off the dribble at will and led Portland back to win a game in the 4th....if I'm not mistaken that's the way I remember it. Ergo, this trade would be a complete steal for us if it went down. See, this is the type of ish I'm talking about. And Eddie, this isn't an attack on you personally, but it's an example of what a lot of people on this board do when it concerns this team. Every haflway good thing is erased from your memory banks, while every negative thing is replayed over and over and over, like a reoccuring nightmare. For example. You distinctly remember JJ getting torched by Roy at the end of the Portland game, right? Roy was indeed spectacular in that game. But do you, or anyone else for that matter, remember the Portland game a week earlier in ATL? I bet you can recall Travis Outlaw going off on us. But can you also recall JJ dropping damn near 40 points on their azzes, along with 7 or 8 assists? Roy, on that night, was the one being abused by JJ. I guess everyone forgot about all of that. It's just another example of how this fan base is almost subconsciously spewing out anything negative about this team. It's a damn shame too.

Quote: Northclyde you should just do us all a favor and write a book on how to be a fan. In every other line you'll tell us all how because we have a problem with woody and how the roster is set up we all are less of a fan than you. You'll also decieve other Hawks fans into thinking your post was more than a self satisfying ego move to show your are better than many of us. That's your guilty conscience telling you that sir, not me. I know people don't like Woody. I just have a problem with people using Woody as an excuse for not supporting the team more than ever, especially after winning over 60% of our home games and beating Boston 3 times at home . . with Woody at the helm. Quote: One thing that confuses me is you're telling people who have sat through a 13 win season, the trading of the franchises best player, some of the worst draft picks ever that they are bandwagon jumpers. Huh? If you were to come to my job and ask anyone I work with my favorite basketball team they all would say the Hawks. I have suffered to long and put up with to much failure to let someone like you try and set limits and rules to what is a real fan or not. No sir, that's not it at all. My question is "WHY are people so jaded against the Hawks NOW?" Why not support the Hawks even more NOW, after getting a taste of the playoffs? Some of you act like we've been a mediocre team team for 4 consecutive years, and that another season of .500 ball will just drive you crazy. We haven't been mediocre . . We Have Been Horrible. But unlike in past years, there is now a glimmer of hope for this team. Answer this for me. With Woody as coach next year, do you expect us to miss the playoffs? Do you expect us to have less than a .500 record? Because I'll bet you that if we retain Smith, and re-sign Chill or bring in a scorer/shooter to replace Chill, that all of those media outlets and blogs that picked us to miss the playoffs, will now start picking us to make it. Some may even pick us as high as #6 in the East. LOL . . I'll even bet some crazy person will pick us to win the Southeast with us winning 45 - 48 games. This is our potential squad next year: Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Smith, Horford as the starters. All of these guys should be improved and more consistent as players next year. That group alone should get everybody excited about next year. Law, Chill, Andersen, Zaza as the reserves. Chill is the super sub. Zaza is Zaza, who may or may not get minutes at the 5. If Andersen can give us anything as a high % shooter, that becomes huge for this team. And to be honest with you, I'd rather give Law any minutes that I would give a Richardson or a Mario West. Add a veteran G/F shooter ( not a D-league one ), and a big center to strictly bang ( even if it's a Diop, a Kwame Brown or a Jake Voskhul ), and Bionic Knee Claxton to fill out the roster. But make no mistake, the success of the Hawks will hinge on how consistent the starters are, not how great of a bench we have. Quote: Let me address a few issues here: Woody - Its obvious to many that this man is one of the worst pro basketball coaches when it comes to in game decisions, offensive sets in the halfcourt and relating and getting the most out of his players. If Woody was not a good in game coach but got a Acie,Salim, Solo, Richardson or a ZaZa to come in and play productive minutes I wouldn't have as much of a problem. You might say these guys aren't that good. One big reason is that when they are inserted in the game and fail Woody takes them out immediately. Instead of actually coaching and teaching he would rather play JJ,Smoove and Bibby most of the game. Thats not going to cut it. So let me get this straight. You're willing to cut the playing time of guys like Smith, Chill, Marvin, and JJ, just so Salim, Solo, Richardson and Zaza could play? Because that's what you're suggesting, whether you know it or not. Do you seriously think that those guys could get any playing time on any other playoff team? Zaza and Law . . maybe. But the rest of those guys may not even get a 2nd contract. And I see Richardson is the new "favorite Hawksquawk bench player" these days. Like he's the 2nd coming of Reggie Miller or somebody. Nell Carter, God rest your soul and forgive me, but . . . GIVE ME A BREAK !! I tried to defend a guy like Salim as much as i could. But it's obvious that Salim has to be given a role like Earl Boykins had in Denver, where he got 20+ minutes a game and 10 shots. There is no doubt that Woody could've used him more, but he's so damn streaky, that you can't justify playing him all the time. Salim can't miss hist first 3 shots, and expect to get 3 more. And to be perfectly honest, there's no reason to play him, if JJ and/or Bibby has it going, or if Chill is playing well. If the Hawks can rotate Smith and Horford at the PF, why in the world would you play Solo? He should only play when someone is hurt, or when we have major foul trouble issues. Jeremy has played with a few other teams besides the Hawks, and he couldn't get PT on those squads either ( one of them being the Spurs ). The same reason he doesn't play, is the same reason why a JJ Redick doesn't play. I thought going into last season that the bench of Law, Lue/Salim Shelden and Zaza would be more than solid. Lue was his typical self, but the rest of those guys were inconsistent as hell. When you're a bench player, you have to immeadiately come into a game and do your job. Unless you're the 6th or 7th man, you're not going to have 15 - 20 minutes to do your thing. Not when our starters are significantly better than our bench. You need to do it right away in order to stay in the game. And they didn't. This fan base used to rip Salim, Shelden and Zaza everytime they stepped on the floor. But now it's Woody's fault that they didn't develop? Please. Quote: His lack of communication skills and development hurt the Hawks this season and every year he has been here. If he had coached some of these players to use there strengths and not try to mold them into what he wanted they would be fine. Woody needs players who are already proven because he is NOT a teacher and that is a part of being a coach. Motivator is another trait that he seems to be missing. Once again, you tell 1/2 of the story. You can say that about the scrub bench players, but you can't say that about Smith, Williams, Childress, Horford, and even JJ. He coaches to the strengths of all of those players, with Smith sometimes getting too jumpshot happy. He's talking to those young guys when they come out of the game, and talking to them while on the court. He's nowhere near being a top level coach, but the guy isn't clueless either. Quote: Why were the Hawks successful last season? Because the Hawks have talent in Horford,Smoove, JJ, Chillz, Marvin and Bibby who can out perform teams on any given night. These guys are givens though. Its developing a Vujacic or a Jordan Farmer that can help your team win CONSISTENTLY throughout the season. He rode his primetime players into the ground and barely made it into the playoffs. He deserves credit for that but the talent on the team shows there should be more than 37 wins. Why did we win in the playoffs at home? Was it the crowd or Woody? It was a little bit of both. Woody actually didn't change his style up much. For example, Smoove got hot in game one and basicly made it impossible for the Celtics to win that game. What was Smoove doing in that game though? Hoisting up three pointers. Its a good thing he made them or we would have been in deep trouble. Second home game, JJ was great wasn't he. But didn't it remind you of a regular season game that we would win squared. He was extra awesome in that game because of the stage. But there were so many games the Hawks win like this one. 4th quarter comes, throw it to JJ and get outta the way. Luckily JJ was hot that not or again we would have been in trouble. Third home game, not the end all be all but Paul Pierce not being there late was huge. He is there best player and would have been tough to stop. Woody can take all the credit for coaching the game and the Hawks winning at home. But as far as the motivational lift that goes to Al Horford and the crowd. That Ali tape Big Al showed was right on point. He is a leader already. Every player mentioned the crowd after wins. Not many mentioned Woody as the reason for wins. What does this tell you about Woody? It tells you the same reason we won at home in the regular season(as far as what the coach did) was the same reason we won in the playoffs at home. JJ with the ball late living and diein with him. Smoove taking threes but unexpectingly hitting at a good rate and beating a team without a big part of there team at home. Just think of the Suns(Amare) and Mavericks( Josh Howard, Devin Harris) both missing key players and the Hawks beating them at home. What happened on the road against both teams and most good teams? The Hawks got smoked because of LAzy coaching. I thank you for pretty much proving exactly what I said yesterday. - Woody gets all the blame for losses, but very little of the credit for wins. - There is ALWAYS a "yeah, but" to everything we did last year. Why is that? Why does everything the players and coaches do, have to have some sort of asteritsk (sp) on it? Quote: Woody is satisfied with how he coaches and that is troublesome. His coaching style can only get you mediocore or less than that. His success is depended upon adding veterans who can help mask some of his coaching blunders. Hell it almost sounded like he wanted Bibby to coach him when he came to the team. He can't just hand Acie the ball and say run the team. He must teach, motivate and discipline him if and when needed. I haven't seen this from him yet though and I hope Bibby can tutor Acie to become a good PG because I don't believe coaching staff can. I have nothing against Woody but have seen his coaching style long enough to form an opinion. You can say that just about every coach though. Just about every young team in the league is inconsistent, unless they have a superstar talent at the point or on the low block. All coaches would prefer vets instead of young guys. People act like the Hawks have had decent PGs and good low post options to get the ball too in each of Woody's 4 years. The good offensive teams have those 2 elements, unless you have a superstar 2 or 3 that is a high volume scorer and can pass to make everybody around him better. It's funny . . our best overall PG and low post option for the last 3 - 4 years may very well have been our all-star 2-guard, who is also our best outside threat. That's why when teams treat JJ like he's a top 5 player in the league, we struggle offensively. Only recently can we say that we've had upgrades at the PG and C position to balance out the offense. The offensive efficiency we saw after the all-star break ( in which we were really good ), should be the type of offense we'll probably see next season. We shouldn't have a problem at all averaging 100 ppg next year. Bottom line: coaching is important, but you also need talent and experience more than coaching. Ask Pat Riley and Doc Rivers what talent and experience can do for you as a coach. Miami and Boston have basically switched bodies as an organization. When Miami won their title, they were the team with a squad full of vet players. Now, it's Boston with all the vets and Miami with a plethora of young guys. Give Woody KG and Allen to team with JJ, along with vets like Cassell, Posey, anf PJ Brown . . .while losing Smith, Lue, Salim, Chill and Horford, the Hawks would either be title contenders, or at the very least, a very good team as well: Law Allen JJ KG Zaza Cassell Posey Marvin Shelden PJ Brown Quote: One play where Woody fooled me into thinking the light had come on in his head. It was in Golden State and they posted up JJ on the left side of the court. With two shooters in Salim and Richardson in the game the rotated around the arc and were in perfect position to recieve a pass if needed. JJ worked his man and when the double came Kicked it out to Salim "SWISH" three point basket! I was screaming at the TV YES YES YES! I really enjoyed that play and it was a good thing because I never saw it again. I taped that game and watched it about 10 times. Woody's coaching put us in position to win that game. It was a situation in which we couldn't stop Golden St defensively, seeing that we were trying to run with them. So Woody, in order to get back into the game, inserted shooters and completely slowed down the pace of the game. They didn't just run that play one time in that game. They ran it about 8 - 10 times. Sometimes JJ would take his man and score. Other times, he'd kick it out to Salim and Salim would either shoot or penetrate and go to the hole. I think Jeremy also knocked down a 3 off of that same play. Salim was outstanding that night, with his shot selection and by playing under control. But it goes back to the issue with Salim, which is his consistency as a shooter. In that game, Salim was able to knock down his first few shots, which gave Woody some leeway to leave him in. When he starts out ice cold, you can't leave him in because he'll shoot you out of a game. And if he's in the game, but not shooting at all, that's a detriment too, because he's in the game specifically to score. Quote: They could run the same play with Smoove or Horford with Bibby and JJ ready to shoot. That is one way you can get minutes from Salim and Richardson by designing plays of this nature. They both can do what comes natural to them, shoot. This goes back to what Woody said the other day, with pushing Horford to improve his low post game. If a guy like Horford can become good enough to command a double team on the low block, then we can run plays like that. The had that inside-outside game going a little bit in the playoffs when Horford was scoring a little over Perkins. But neither Horford nor Smith are consistent enough back to the basket low post scorers RIGHT NOW to command the type of attention needed to run that play more. Both are much better scorers when they're facing the basket. LOL . . and that leads me to what I said about JJ. He's our best post up guy and also our best long range shooter. When you insert a Salim or Jeremy into a game, you're almost always sacrificing offense for defense. In that Golden St game, JJ's size and quickness created the mismatch at the 2 and at the 3, because guys like Ellis, Barnes or Azibuike had no shot at guarding JJ by themselves. So they had to double JJ when he got the ball down on the block. ****** But the main issue is still this: Why are people so jaded on the Hawks NOW? Why have said that they won't support the team more by attending games? This is exactly the time people should be more behind this team, not waiting on them to fail, so that they can bytch and complain and go through the ol "woe is me as a Hawks fan" routine. Because I'll tell you guys this. The Hawks could easily be the East version of Utah next year. Utah at home was pretty damn good, and could beat anybody at home. Utah on the road, was an enigma, and could lose to anybody on the road. So if the Hawks can't pull themselves together on the road, and are still winning only 12 - 16 road games, we're going to need to be even better at home this year, to get a #5 or #6 seed in the East. And if you truly believe that the great home crowd enabled us to battle Boston in the playoffs, then you need to try to make every attempt to be at Philips during the regular season. Up until the playoffs, the Atlanta crowd was the butt of all jokes. If you want that to stop, GO TO THE GAMES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. But if the Woody re-hire bothers some of you so much, do what you have to do. Hopefully we can get new "northasses" to sit in your seats at Philips, and cheer on the Hawks.

Quote: Actually Northass it's fans like YOURSELF who are the problem for our franchise. Fans like yourself continue to spend money on the team and support them (financially) no matter what they do. I shall now call them...Northasses. What incentive does that provide for the ASG to actually try and put out a competitive roster with a competitive coach? As long as there are mindless Northasses like yourself, spending money to proudly sport around a .400 team on their caps, the rest of us REAL fans shall continue to look forward to -40 win seasons. Thanks Northass, and all you other Northasses, for really supporting our team. If you ever hit the lottery we will forever BE IN the lottery. You're welcome. If fans like you can't support the Hawks at home, when they won over 60% of their home regular season and playoff home games last year, I hope the new casual fans that were energized by our success in the playoffs, can replace some of you guys at Philips next season. If we're still schizophrenic on the road, we need to be damn good at home next year. If you're not willing to be part of that home crowd a little more next season, that's on you. My support of the Hawks is UNCONDITIONAL.

Quote: When people stop supporting a team our players start to leave and before you know it we have no team to cheer for because its been relocated to another state. Bingo Chris!!! D, and others like him, are completely delusional if they think a professional sports organization is going to go all-out to put a winner on the floor, if they don't have a ton of revenue coming in. The ASG is a fairly financially weak ownership group to begin with, by NBA standards. If they weren't, they'd probably would've bought out Belkin and be done with this headache. It was shocking enough that they even made a play for Bibby. But I guess they felt that they had to make the playoffs last season, to keep our fan base interested. So biting the bullet for one year, isn't a bad thing. It'll be worth it for them, if the fans really come out to watch the Hawks this year. I live in Tennessee, and pretty much witnessed the Nashville Predators being hijacked from the city for that very same reason ( revenue ). The hockey fans in the area thought that they could just attend the big games or weekend games, and everything would be cool. Meanwhile, the season ticket base was so weak, that the Preds organization almost had to count on the walk-up crowd every home game. And like some of these Hawk fans, the Pred fans said that if management spends some money to improve the product, then the fans will come out and fully support the team. So the organization goes out and get Paul Kariya and they make the playoffs. But the season ticket base didn't increase much at all. So when the local owner a year later basically said "I love owning this team, but I'm losing too much money, so I'm selling the team", the fan base just took it with a grain of salt, thinking a new owner may do more to bring great players in ( even though they don't pack the arena for every Pred home game ). When the owner gets into serious discussion to sell the team to a Canadian living in Hamilton, Ontario, eyebrows were raised. When the city of Hamilton, Ontario almost immeadiately approved financing for a new arena, Pred fans were like "wait a minute . . this guy is going to move this team!!" It took the local radio station to hold a damn season ticket rally, to draw enough interest around the city and the middle Tennessee area, to have another local ownership group step up and buy the team. And even they said that they needed an attendance average of 14K a game, to keep the team in Nashville. If you look at the Memphis Grizzlies, they went through kind of the same thing. The Griz was good enough for 3 years to make the playoffs. The first playoff year, they were still in the bottom 5 in attendance. In playoff year 2, they move into a new building, win 50 games, and see their attendance move into the top 20. But in year 3, even though they won 49 games, their attendance falls back into the bottom 5. That's when all of the turmoil for that franchise really started. The injury to Gasol pretty much got Fratello fired. And because the revenue base was so poor in Memphis, they didn't try to make a major move for a good player to try to sustain the talent level on the team, which led to a horrible season and them wishing for a savior in the form of Oden or Durant. When that didn't happen, and they couldn't even get the #3 pick to draft Horford ( which would've been a damn good fit in Memphis ), everything really started to unravel. And it didn't help the Griz one bit that the Memphis Tigers started to be a national college power again. If given the choice, the people in Memphis will ALWAYS support a good Tigers over the Griz, no matter how good the Griz are. Gasol cries for help, and if help didn't come, demands to be traded. Help doesn't come ( because the owners aren't bringing in a lot of revenue, and are wanting to sell the team to someone else anyway ). Gasol talks about being traded, then backs off of it. Fans turn on Gasol, the face of the franchise for the last 7 years. And Gasol gets traded for virtually nothing, saving the owners a ton of money going into next season. I will be SHOCKED if Memphis made a major run at a free agent ( Arenas, Jamison, Smith, etc ) to improve the team. The fan base in Memphis has already proven that they may not support the team, even if they win 50 games. Plus, they'd rather spend their money watching the Tigers blow out Southern Miss and East Carolina. Oh, and by the way, during the 7 years in which the Bulls were easily the worst franchise in the NBA ( from their last title in 1998 to their return to the playoffs in 2005 ), the Bulls were ALWAYS in the top 10 in attendance, even as high as #2 in the league, during some of those horrible years. As the Hawks marketing team says, it's time for the ATL fan base to RISE UP.

Quote: For me its shooter first and then the big man. The shooter helps the team get through those 5-8 minute stretches at between quarters where the Hawks just can't score. A shooter also lets JJ get some rest. That's a huge issue with this team. And that's the reason why JJ couldn't rest much. This got better when Bibby came on board, but the offense would sometimes go straight to hell with JJ out of the game. But while a shooter will definitely help, what will help more in this area is if one of the other starters can effectively take over the role as the main offensive threat while JJ is out of the game. We may need a guy who can shoot and create his own shot, rather than just a shooter. That's what people want Marvin to be. If Richardson can come into a game and do what Salim couldn't, and that's IMMEADIATELY knock down shots, then he may have a place in the rotation. If he's an inconsistent shooter, keep him off the floor, because he's a bad defender. And keep this in mind . . Jeremy had stints in Portland and San Antonio, and he couldn't stay on with those squads. So if Jeremy is retained, but doesn't see the floor, it may have to do more with Jeremy, and not the team he's on.

I would sure hope not, especially Marvin, Chill, Smith and Woody. Mario West probably loves the site though.

Quote: Quote: Exactly. We can go ahead and cry and b!tch while his holiness gives us permission? Suck my balls on that one. LOL I was working on a pretty good buzz at the time but if my memory serves me well Northcyde showed up to the Game 3 PreGame in the CNN Center a little late. I was hungry so I gave him my seat while I stood in the Taco Bell line. My seat right next to Lascar. LOL Hawksquawk: Where amazing happens It is funny teke. And thanks for givng me your seat. But what gets me is after all of the good home wins in the regular season, and that memorable Game 3, and even more memorable Games 4 and 6, he's the same guy that is now not going to buy season tickets? In the end, that's his business. But why not now? Does his hatred for Woody run that deep, that he's not willing to support the team that he loves even more next year, even though there's every indication that the product will be better? And people talk about us settling for being mediocre. Heck, we haven't been mediocre in a long time. We were flat out bad all of those years. We just got to mediocre this season. But people want us to jump up to championship contender status immeadiately. I mean, God forbid we trade Marvin for Diesel's boy, Raja Bell. That would highly pizz me off. But once he came into the mix, my support of the Hawks would be no less than it is right now.

Quote: So, you consider yourself more passionate due to what... Due to the fact that you wasted your time telling people to "cry and get it out of their system"... Who the hell are you? Are you supposed to be a father figure on here.... Am I supposed to ask you if I can use the bathroom next? Only more passionate than the people who are willing to support the team less this year, even though we have more to look forward to than ever. Maybe more passionate than the people that try to find every little single thing wrong with this team, and use that as an excuse to constantly trash players and/or coaches. There are people who have different opinions from me, that will still fully support the team. My comments aren't necessarily directed at them. But the opening statement apparantely has only struck a nerve with the people that constantly cry about all multiple aspects of this team. And that's who i targeted with that statement. It hasn't struck a nerve with everybody, because some know that I'm telling the truth. They may not agree with how I'm going about it, but it's the truth nonetheless. Quote: Come on, man... This site was created so people with DIFFERENT OPINIONS can voice said opinions and create some competitive banter.... For you to FEEL obligated to tell people what they can and can't do shows that you feel like you're HOLIER THAN THOU.... Like I stated before, GET OVER YOURSELF! And if you're so sure that they will be back, then what the heck was the use in you're first post... Go ahead and cry because I know that you'll be back anyway? Gee thanks? 7 It goes back to the "fakeness" or bandwagon quality of not only our fans, but fans in general. The thing that gets me, is that if you were to start a poll right now about either how many games the Hawks will win next year . . or if they expect us to make the playoffs . . I would almost bet that vast majority of fans would have us over .500 and making the playoffs. Yet, when you look at this board, it's like we're the Knicks or something. That's why I said that they'll be back if we really start winning. If we still are inconsistent, they may not go to the games. But if we are inconsistent, I hope it's only on the road, so that those new casual fans that like to watch us win at home, can replace some of those "die-hards" who aren't going to the games. It's funny though. People love to bash and make fun of Woody, but absolutely despise I, and a few others, who may take up for him and give him the benefit of the doubt on some issues. And those same people constantly talk about what upgrades we need as a team to make us more consistent and less "flawed", but constantly blame Woody for everything, because he's not winning more with the current "flawed" team . . even after they acknowledge what we need personnel wise to be more consistent.

Quote: Sund left Seattle because he was forced out of the GM role their a year ago. He was just a consultant this past season. Thanks for telling me that. No wonder I wasn't excited about that hire. And that goes back to the question that many people have wondered over the years. How much has this ownership squabble really hampered us? If the only guy we could hire was a GM that really wasn't a GM at the time, how do the coaches view our situation? That's why I love this team so much. They have everything under the sun against them, yet, they just continue to battle and fight.

Quote: Voted biggest waste of time thread posted here... Both a waste of time typing for the HOLIER THAN THOU Northcyde and a waste of time for the "Not as true of a fan" Siete... Get over yourself! 7 It's not my fault that you're taking offense to what I'm saying. And I'm no better than any other fan. LOL @ holier than thou. Maybe a little more passionate, but definitely not holier. But I felt that what I had to say, had to be said. The fan base is so used to crying about everything, that it's hard to be positive about things around here. I don't have a problem with the people who have a different opinion of mine. I have a problem with the people who are not going to support the team as much as they did last year, despite some of the strides we made last seson. But they'll be back. They always come back. All it will take is a good start, a nice home win streak or a big time win over a great team, and they'll be right back on the Hawks bandwagon, passionate as ever.

Quote: What a joke. I have lost all respect for Al Horford. Why isn't he focusing on his game? LMAO !!! Exactly. And i like the little subtle touch, with the green font.

One of the major differences between Bibby and the AJ/Lue PG combo, is that our transition offense was entirely better with him running the show. Bibby's ability to push the ball, find the open man, or shoot the ball himself, was one of the key reasons why our offense was much more effective after he came here. Bibby averaged 6.5 assists while he was here this season. That's good in today's NBA for a PG. Now, if we can get Law to average 8 ppg and 5 apg, we'll be good to go.

Quote: Quote: Seano, trust me when I tell you that there is a method to my supposed madness. The people that have a major problem with what I'm posting these days, are the ones that I've obviously struck a nerve with. And yes sir, I'm trying to do it on purpose. Stopped reading right there. Where's the "ignore the 8 year old" button? Grow up man. That's cool D. You can ignore it all you want. But I try my best to tell the truth about this fan base at times. You and the others just happen to be on the opposite side this time.

Quote: Be careful With your post about the future because many of us have made bold predictions only to have them blow up in our faces. I too at some point despised Woodson mainly because of the way he handled Acie Law but I had to realize long ago that people can grow and get better with time. Everyone constantly wants to change our roster ignoring the fact that these guys are growing together and developing chemistry which was very evident when I rewatched the Hawks home playoff games against Boston last night. Does this team and it coaching staff need to improve? absolutely! Can this team and its coaching staff improve? I think they can based on their history. For the past 5 years are longer, Hawks teams were unwatchable selfish, bad shooting, turn-over prone, no rebounding teams. Now we out rebound our opponents, our assist to turn-over ratio has improved from 1.32 to 1.54 highest in probably 10 years. And we shot .455% even with Joe having an off shooting year. I'm with Northcyde, give this group a chance! They are showing signs of being a really good basketball team. Peoria, I agree. And Lord knows that you and I have disagreed during the season on certain issues. And I didn't like the way Woody handled Acie either. But on the flip side, Acie wasn't exactly the most consistent player in the world either. His passiveness irritated me sometimes. I think he may be they type that needs to feel that he's in total control of the team, while in the game. If Woody increases his responsibilities, maybe he'll be a better and more consistent basketball player. And that's a great point you made about the assist/turnover ratio. Our asst/TO ratio pre-Bibby was 1.49 . . . with Bibby it was 1.62 Acie shot 48% after the all-star break. If we can get those numbers from him, while giving him at lest 20 minutes a game and possibly 6 - 7 shots, he'll be very valuable for us next season, and poised to take over the team when Bibby is gone in 09 - 10. Woody may not manage young talent well, but let's see how he manages the talent now, with most of the guys going into their 4th year, except Acie and Horford. Hopefully, instead of adding young cheap free agents, we can add young cheap vets. Woody doesn't have to babysit this group anymore. He doesn't have to try to develop Shelden into a center or Salim into a PG.

Quote: Northcyde.....judging by some of the responses in this thread and by my own reaction to these posts of yours- you might just want to give it a rest, because you are *not* coming across well at all here with this type of stuff. These posts are insulting and disrespectful, and it's like you're lecturing and talking down to a bunch of 11 year olds or something. Not appreciated, man....at ALL. I don't want to make it personal because I do believe you ultimately mean well and truly love the Hawks, but maybe you might want to think a little bit more about what you're posting and how you're posting it and how that might come across to the people who will be reading it. Just my .02 cents.... Seano, trust me when I tell you that there is a method to my supposed madness. The people that have a major problem with what I'm posting these days, are the ones that I've obviously struck a nerve with. And yes sir, I'm trying to do it on purpose. Because you see, it's like every positive thing that this team has accomplished over the past year ( no matter how great or small ), is trying to be diminished in some capacity by certain posters on this site. The Woody issue has always been one where I've criticized Woody, but not placed absolute blame on him, because of how flawed our roster has been in his 4-year tenure. I'm seen as a "Woody supporter" because of that. But if you look around this site these days, you'd think that we'd missed the playoffs again, and won only 25 games. That we have NOTHING positive to look at going into next season. - Our core players are continue to improve - We made the playoffs for the first time in 9 years - We won 3 playoff games against the best team ( and best ROAD TEAM ) in the NBA - We may be getting some much needed frontline help in the form of David Andersen, and maybe some surprise help from a healthy Speedy. Yet, because the anti-christ ( WOODY ) got re-upped for 2 more years, all of that is completely out the window. It's like some fully expect us to regress now, or stay the same, while teams like Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte, and even the Knicks are going to overtake us. If by this time next year that does happen, they can freely bring up this post to remind me of what I said on June 15th, 2008. But I don't believe that we're going into a decline one bit. It'll take a major injury or multiple major injuries to derail what we've started to build here. And what gets me, is that there is ALWAYS a "yeah, but" in regard to everything we've accomplished this year, no matter how big or small. - our core players are improving . . yeah, but they're not improving fast enough. They still do a lot of dumb things . . ( like other young players on other teams, who aren't superstar talents right off the bat, don't do things that keep them from progressing rapidly ) - we made the playoffs . . yeah, but we only won 37 games . . and we "backed" in . . ( even though we had to win 11 of 15 in March and April to even secure the spot ) - we beat Boston 3 times in the playoffs . . yeah, but we got blown out every time in Boston, which overrides those 3 home loses . . ( even though no one on the planet thought we could win 3 at home, and maybe only 10% thought we could take 2 of the home games. 60% fully thought we'd get swept ) There is ALWAYS some reason to diminish what this team did. We didn't reach our regular season expectation goal, but FAR exceeded the playoff expectations. But in their eyes, the 37 wins and the 4 playoff blow outs, completely override the fact that we made the playoffs in the first place, and won 3 home games that no one thought we could win. Georgia Bulldog basketball fans . . answer this for me. Do you think the young Bulldogs will definitely take what they accomplished during the crazy SEC tournament, and may translate that into a more successful SEC campaign next year, even though they finished with a .500 record, finished tied for last in the SEC, but won the conference tournament and kept their coach? ( Felton can probably relate to Woody more than any other coach in the nation, college or pro ). And Seano, I'll tell you what I meant when I mentioned that fans are so "fake" sometimes ( referring to the other thread ). It has everything to do with their attitude toward the team. Seriously, how can Hawk fans not be looking forward to next season, even with Woody at the helm? The end of the season run and the fact that we were good at home for most of the season, should have the fan base jacked up . . but it doesn't. They're convinced that Woody is the main problem. They're convinced that as long as Woody is here, this team will be worse than if someone else was here. That's partially why Traceman started that thread the other day. If we win 40, people will say we should've won 45. Win 45, it'll be 50. Win 50, it'll be 55. So now, some of those guys are locked into what will be "acceptable" for the Hawks next year, while others will still find reason not to give Woody any credit whatsoever for the team's success. But if they fail, he'll take ALL of the blame. Let some of them tell it, we were were supposed to win 45+ games this year. Let me repeat that . . . we were supposed to win 45+ games this year. That's a number that NO ONE anywhere in the world, stated. Every media website and publication didn't have us winning that many games, let alone 42 games. Most season previews had us winning anywhere from 30 - 35 games, because they expected teams like Milwaukee and the NY Knicks to overtake us. I want to say the average win total on Hawksquawk was 39 games, with a loss in Round 1 ( if we got to the playoffs ). So we fall below "our" ( not the media's ) regular season expectations, mainly because we let some winnable games against bad teams get away. But we still make the playoffs and make major noise in it and far exceed everyone's expectations. But because of the Woody re-hire, people are now convinced more than ever that the ASG isn't willing to go all-out to put a winner on the floor. They even question now whether Sund has power as a GM, instead of maybe coming to the realization that Sund thinks that Woody is the best man for the job, from a stability and financial standpoint ( as of right now ). Some of them have basically given up on going all-out to support the team, because they feel that management isn't giving that same commitment. That's all well and good. A lot of fans may feel like that in all sports. But they better understand that if they go to fewer games, that whatever home court advantage we have ( or can build ), may be in jeapordy next year. Hopefully, we'll win at home early, and the new casual fans coming into the mix can make those people who didn't re-up on season tickets or not going to the games as often, obsolete. That is my hope for next season. If that sounds insulting or disrespectful or condescending, then I'm sorry. But like the Chris Paul vs Marvin issue, at some point you have to get over that ish, and support the team UNCONDITIONALLY. If not, we have to cut our losses, and hope other fans will come to the fold and replace them. If people only want to fully support the Hawks when they win 50 games, then that's their business. But this team needs support even when they fall short of that mark, so that we can build the type of home court advantage we saw during the playoffs. Seano, it basically comes down to this: - on one side of the fence, you have fans who absolutely believe that anybody can do a better job than Woody, and that we'll be better for it. They'll support a top notch hot name like Avery, an assistant coach wanting to be a head coach for the first time ( like Woody was 4 years ago ), or some former head coach who hasn't had anybody knocking on his door to coach a team, to be our head coach. - on the other side of the fence, you have fans who absolutely believe that if you keep the core together, or if you add another star quality player or some vets to add to the bench, that the Hawks can continue to progress and be a perennial playoff team, even with Woody at the helm. Whatever management does, this team needs our support more than ever. If teams took the Hawks lightly last year, they definitely won't do it this year. They need our FULL UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT no matter what you or I or anybody else thinks about the coach, the players, or the management.