TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: I assume you think that Woodson's inaccurate description of what this team needs to clinch a playoff position is close enough so that it isn't meaningful that he gave bad information? I agree with you that our odds are still great to make the playoffs and I absolutely expect us to make it. If I said that if Derrick Rose would've made both FTs to put Memphis up 4 with 10 seconds to go, that Memphis would win that game, would that be considered "bad information?" Technically, Kansas ( without ANY timeouts ) could've raced down the court . . hit a 2 or a 3 with 3 seconds left ( because they would've have to go the length of the court and either get to the rim, or get a decent look from 3 ) . . fouled Memphis again to put them on the line . . hoped they missed both FTs . . grab the missed FT . . and shot a desperation 3 from about half court with no time left to either tie or win the game. Yeah, it could happen, but highly unlikely in that scenario. Me believing that Memphis wins if Rose put them up 4 with 10 seconds left, may not be an absolute truth, but it isn't a bad assumption or bad information. If I had $1,000, I'd bet that Memphis wins that game if they're up 4 with 10 to go. And if the Hawks win 2 games, I'd do the same and bet they're in the playoffs. I think the guys who are extremely worried about the Hawks, think that the Knicks are going to beat us, while Indy beats Philly. As JackB says . . . it's a "doomsday" mentality.

Quote: Hey you can sit back and relax all you want to man! If you honestly trust this team to handle business then go for it. I don't trust them! Especially when our retarded coach doesn't even know the playoff scenario for our own team to get in. That was my point! how can we relax when this idiot is saying this stuff on our local radio station? It's terrifying If we win 2 games, it forces Indy to win out. Woody probably knows that. And with Indy having to play Philly and Washington on the road, with them having playoff seeding to play for, he doesn't believe they'll win out. So while all of you are correct in saying that if we win 2 and Indy wins out, that Indy will get in, don't slit your wrists because Woody believes 2 will get us in. 2 wins should get us in folks. While that isn't a certainty, it's highly likely . . like 90 - 95% likely. Indy hasn't beaten a team with a winning record in god knows how long, and only has one 4 game win streak all year ( the 4 wins that started their hot stretch . . NY, Minnesota, Charlotte at home, and Chicago on the road ). If they win tonight, that would be their 2nd four game win streak this year. To win out, it would mean that they won 7 straight to close the season. I wonder what Hollinger's playoff odds say about our chances to get in? I think the sad thing about all of this, is that the Hawks are playing their best stretch of basketball ( 10 - 4 in their last 14 games ) since December ( when we won 11 out of 15 . . counting the Miami replay win ). A victory tonight matches that stretch. And if they do achieve that, it'll tie their best 15 game stretch of ball they've played since the 1999 - 00 strike season. I'll repeat that. It'll tie our best 15 game stretch of ball, since the 1999 - 00 season. Yet, people still think that the Hawks can somehow mess this up, while Indy can possibly get it done. (( shaking my head ))

Some of you are just so used to worrying and stressing about this team, that you can't stop doing it. Relax. The reality is that the Hawks have a much greater chance to win 2 of their last 4, than Indy has of winning all 4 games. I'll even say that we have a better chance to win 3, than they do to win 4. Indy has beaten both the Sixers and Wizards twice. But those wins were before Philly got hot and before the Wiz got Arenas back. Indy has handled the Knicks like we have, but they've dropped 2 of 3 vs Charlotte. The Hawks are 6 - 0 vs both NY and Miami, and have won 2 of 3 vs Orlando. Both Orlando and Boston are not going all out to win these games with their starters. Fortunately for us, both Philly and Washington have a hell of a lot to play for, seeing that none of those teams don't want to face Detroit in round 1. Take a deep breath, and just relax.

Quote: This is a MUST win game tonight. No more friggin excuses. If we lose this game tonight you all can say goodbye to the playoffs because we will not beat Boston and Orlando after losing to the garbage Knicks. This team can't face that type of adversity. That's not true at all. This team has been facing adversity all year. The fact is that you can almost never predict how this team will play on the road. And just because they lose to a bad team on the road, doesn't mean that they can't beat a good team at home. Just to let everyone know, we have a 8 - 3 record vs the 4 remaining teams on our schedule ( 2 losses to Boston, one to Orlando )

Quote: Quote: The real issue is how these guys just, in effect, laid down for the Pacers last night. That is how i see it. My interest in the playoff "race" diminished significantly last night. So what if we beat Boston on Saturday night? Will it significantly pick back up? LOL . . of course it will. This team plays well enough at home to beat Boston, especially if they don't play the Big 3 regular minutes. You'll even see threads on how we could possibly BEAT BOSTON in a 7-game series, if we win that game. Here's a conspiracy theory though, since people have been believing the BAD conspiracy theories all season: The Atlanta and Indiana owners had a conference call Tuesday morning. Indy owners know they have as slim a chance to catch the Hawks, as Clinton does in catching Obama in the total delegate count. They also know that Atlanta has agreements from the Knicks and Heat to not beat the Hawks making it almost impossible to win out and catch the Hawks. The Indy owners want to give their fan base something to cheer about in these final 2 games, even though they know they won't make the playoffs. So they call up the ASG, and see if they can get the Hawks to "throw them a bone" Tuesday night, in exchange for Indy losing at Phily and Washington on the road. The ASG goes for it, seeing an opportunity to throw a "playoff clinching party" for the Boston game. It'll be a great celebration at Philips, if they were to beat Boston and clinch a playoff spot. Confetti would be raining down in the arena, like we just won the Finals. So Gearon goes to Woody, and tells him that we need to LOSE the game, in order to clinch the playoff spot on Saturday with a victory vs Beantown. Woody doesn't like the idea, but figures that if he can become Gearon's puppet, it may save his job for another year. Woody then goes to the one Hawk that hasn't been here through all the losing . . . Mike Bibby. Bibby is the ONLY player he goes to. He tells Bibby that the owners want to clinch the playoff berth at home. To do that, he tells Bibs to have an "off" game. Bibby remembers what it was like when the Kings first made the playoffs, and how excited the crowd was, and agrees to have his "off" game. Bibby goes and does just that, having arguably his worst game as a Hawk. Woody does his part by seizing the opportunity to keep Horford out of the game for extended minutes due to "foul trouble". To make it not look like a total tank job though, he plays JJ and Smoove their regular amount of minutes and let them play hard, knowing they won't be able to win without contrbutions from Bibs and Al. See . . nothing to worry about. This is just all a part of the master plan for the playoff party on Saturday night, with the after parties being at STATS, Esso, Studio 72, Magic City, Cheetah, Strokers, Velvet Room and Europe.

Quote: Why didnt I see something like this coming from you? I dont think anyone is really "overreacting" and "need to calm down" as you put it. It's just that many of us have seen the Hawks for who they really are. A lot of us dont always look with these rose-tinted glasses and think "Everything will be OK. We are still in it and have a chance in the playoffs." You mean to tell me that you couldn't see the Hawks possibly playing a game like this on the road? They've played like this ALL YEAR on the road. Even during this streak, I was one on the only ones saying that we could EASILY lose @ Jersey and @ Chicago. The fact that we had a better record than then at the time, indicated nothing about how we could win those games. The fact is that I KNOW that we're a terrible road team on most nights. Even against teams on our level, which, by the way, we're on the level of Indy, Chi, NJ, Philly, Washington and Toronto. The difference between those 6 teams is minute. It's just that Atlanta, Philly, Washington and Toronto tend to be strong at home, while the others are just mediocre. It's YOU guys that overhype this team after a good win, and totally trash them after a loss. You're the one with "rose colored" glasses because you couldn't see a game like this coming. But all year, they've bounced back after losses like these, and reganed their focus. They did it after the Jersey loss. They did it after the Chicago loss. They did it after the Philly loss. And they'll do it again after this loss. THAT'S why I'm not worried about this team. Quote: The real issue is how these guys just, in effect, laid down for the Pacers last night. I have said it before, and apparently need to say it again, a real playoff caliber team would have gone into their house and stopped on their throats while Indiana desperately clung to playoff hopes. However, in a total debacle, from coaching to the play on the floor, rolled over and laid an egg like some sick puppy. LOL . . and I'm the one looking through rose-colored glasses? We've won 36 games on the year. Even if we won that game last night, it wouldn't make us a "real playoff caliber" team. Are Philly, Toronto, or Washington "real playoff caliber" teams, because they all dropped games against us that they should've won. If Philly, Toronto, or Washington were in the same situation we were in last night, and Indiana desperately needed that game to close the gap, Indy probably beats them too. If you were expecting the Hawks to play like a "real playoff caliber team", and just waltz into Conseco and throttle the Pacers, you're truly the delusional one. Ish, I doubt we were even favored to win last night, let alone "throttle" somebody on the road. Quote: Yeah, the odds of the Hawks screwing this up and not making the playoffs are indeed slim. However, with our team as currently constructed, we won't do much when we make it anyway. To think otherwise is just delusion. LOL . . I think if you created a poll to see if the Hawks will beat Boston in the playoffs, 95% of the fan base would say HELL NAW!! And the 5% that voted YES, wouldn't dare put some money on it. Everybody knows what this team needs, startng with new ownership, management, a legit big man, a few more solid bench players, and coaching. Winning last night doesn't change that. Losing doesn't confirm it more either. Winning last night doesn't change our playoff destiny, which is to be swept or lose in 5 games to Boston. What you guys need to start doing, is look at the big picture, instead of overanalyzing each game, and making sweeping opinions based on that one game. LOL @ everybody turning on Zaza now, after giving him praise the past 2 weeks. Salim hits one jumper, and the Salim fans want him back in the rotation. People even want Solo, Jeremy, and Mario to play now. LOL . . amazing what one bad loss can do to the psyche of the fans.

Exactly. If I had saw this thread an hour ago, it would've saved me a lot of typing.

We're still in full control of this. No need to overdramatize our situation after one horrible loss. Whether we lose by 30, or lose by 1 on a last second shot, the impact of the loss would still be the same. There are no moral victories this time of year. A win is a win, and a loss is a loss. If we'd played our hearts out, but still lost, the impact of the loss would still be the same. We've been a bad road team the entire season. So last night, regardless of the possible opportunity, shouldn't fully shock anyone who has followed this team all year. "The Hawks" prove time and again that they "are who we thought they were". If we can't beat the Knicks and Heat again, we don't deserve to be in the playoffs anyway. Boston and Orlando are now playing their starters less minutes and letting most of their bench finish games. I fully expect this team to win at least 2, possibly 3 of the next 4 games, and get that 8th seed. And if you've followed this team, it shouldn't shock you one bit if the Hawks play like world beaters against Boston on Saturday night, and beat them. That's just how this team is, especially at home. ( Personally, if I were Doc, I'd treat Saturday's game like it was Game 1 of the playoffs, and play to win the game with his main rotation. No need in givng us any inkling of hope of making the series competitve by limiting the starter's minutes, and possibly handing us a win. If Doc played the starters regular minutes, and possibly destroy us at Philips, it would pretty much set the bar for the playoffs, and possibly take any hope away from us. I think Dallas half-azzed with the Warriors late last season, and pretty much gave them a victory. If Dallas wins, they may have played the Clippers instead of the Warriors. That came back to bite them in the azz. So it will be interesting to see what mindset Boston will have on Saturday. ) I also fully expect Indy and Jersey to lose at least 2 of their final games . . . because they're schizophrenic just like the Hawks are. Neither of those teams are good enough to win out, just like we're aren't good enough to do it. Jersey and Philly gave all they had against us in must games for them to say in the playoff race, only to fade off once they played a road game. Expect the same out of Indy in their upcoming games. The Hawks have done exactly what they needed to do down the stretch to make the playoffs. We've won 10 out of our last 14 games. Win 3 more, and we're in. Win 2, and Indy has to win out. Win 1, and Indy still have to win 3 to get in. This team would have to totally collapse not to get in. And i just don't see that happening. So just calm down.

Quote: Quote: Quote: How many shots does Salim have to miss to get you guys to realize that he can't shoot. He is a one dimensional player that is bad with that one dimension! I don't see what people see in him! Ah, I see you're just in rant mode today. I'll leave you to that. Enjoy. No, Salim is a career 40% shooter that is shooting 34% this year. 31% behind the arc this year. I love watching Salim when he's on. I hated to do it, but I taped over his great game he had against Denver last year, to record the Final Four ( lol . . . with those stinkers of games, I wished i hadn't done it now. But I'd rather have Stanford guard Candace Wiggins ( probably the best college women's player in the country ) . . or the young freshman from UConn, Mya Moore ( who has perfect form on her jumper, even more perfect than Marvin's ), than Salim these days. If I needed a spot up shooter to bring off the bench, give me those 2 girls over Salim's streaky azz.

Quote: No he doesn't, he just plays more minutes. Ginobili only plays 30 mpg, he'd be an MVP candidate this season with 40 mpg. It's hard to judge just how good Ginoboli really is, because he isn't the main guy on the Spurs. Not to say that any 2-guard in the league can be as efficient as Ginoboli is with the Spurs, cause they can't. But a lot of guys would look better with maybe one of the 20 best players ever in Duncan, and a PG that few can stop like Parker. To me, Ginoboli is a lot like Scottie Pippen ( role wise ). Alongside a superstar, he's as good of a complimentary player you could ask for. But if he had to score 22 - 28 ppg every night, just so his team could win, he wouldn't be nearly as effective as a player. When I do a list like this, I do it on the basis of which guy I would rather have. I'd trade Kobe, Wade, and T-Mac straight up for JJ. But I wouldn't do it for a guy like Ginoboli, Carter, Redd, or Iverson.

Quote: me and a few of my buddies were having this debate and this is what i came up with for my top 10 SGs: 1. Kobe 2. Iverson 3. McGrady 4. Wade 5. Joe Johnson 6. Ginobli 7. Vince Carter 8. Ray Allen 9. Monte Ellis 10. Brandon Roy others that could make the list though: Michael Redd Richard Hamilton Kevin Martin J.R. Smith Ben Gordon Larry Hughes Stephen Jackson anyone wanna share their thoughts?? Kobe is #1 no doubt. He always has been, contrary to what some people want to believe. He's the most feared offensive 2-guard in the league, and one of the best defensive guards in the league. #2 has to be Wade, when healthy. He's almost unstoppable going to the hole. No disagreement with T-Mac @ #3. He's a great scoring and playmaking option, even if he isn't clutch all the time. #4 is JJ. If JJ were on the Nuggets, that team would be much better defensively, and not lose much from a scoring or playmaking standpoint. That team would be nice with JJ on it. Put Iverson on the Hawks, and I don't know if we're any better than we are right now. We might be worse. But if you put Iverson at the point, and JJ at the 2 on either team, both of those teams would be a threat to win their conference. AI is a more potent offensive threat. JJ is far and away better defensively. Overall, I'll give a slight edge to JJ. So JJ is #4, and Iverson is #5. Ray Allen is the prototypical 2-guard. While he's taken on the complimentary role in Boston, he's still more than capable of being the main man. And his performance in the All-Star game proves that he can still score in bunches. He's #6, but most people will put him ahead of JJ. I have to penalize Ginoboli, because he never sees a double team. The game is totally different, when your opponent is looking to shut you down every game. Vince Carter is still a very good player who can take over a game with his scoring or playmaking. Offensively, I'd rather have Vince, if I didn't have another star on my team, because he is used to taking and making big shots. Defensive/flopping, Ginoboli definitely has the advantage. Ginoboli is nice though, real nice. Vince is #6. Ginoboli is #7. Michael Redd is #8. Like Allen, he's a prototype for how a 2-guard should play. He's an offensive machine at times, and has the ball skills to beat you off the dribble as well. Redd can score in bunches, and has unlimited range on his jumper. If he played with a legit PG that passed, his numbers would look even better. Give me Roy at #9. After January, Brandon started getting the superstar treatment from other teams. It bothered him for a while, but he's starting to make the adjustment of how to still control a game, even when everybody is trying to stop you. Brandon, once Oden comes back, may skyrocket into the top 5 in a year or two. With Oden, his points, assists, and FG shooting should go up. I love how Monta Ellis plays, but I think he's truly a product of the G-State system. He is very good in that system though. He probably deserves to be on this list, but I can't put him on it because he's such a liability defensively. But at #10, I'm going with Iggy. He's very solid offensively and defensively. He's a guy that is starting to embrace being the go-to guy for his team, much like JJ did when he came here. Iggy is strong and has tremendous athleticism. Like Roy, Iggy could skyrocket up this list in a year or two.

Quote: I think Noah and Horford's backup is also on an NBA roster. I think his last name was Richard or Richards. I need to look that up too. Or . . I should've paid more attention to KB's orignal post, where he already said that Chris Richard was in the NBA. As for Steve Fisher ( not Fischer ), he's coaching at San Diego St. There's no pressure whatsoever to be a perennial winner at that program. If he makes the NCAA tournament every 3 - 4 years, and consitently be good enough to be an NIT team, he's all good at SDSU.

They had 4 NBA caliber players, plus the prototypical college 3 point shooter in Humphrey ( I think that was the white dude's name ). He was the guy that would routinely blow games open with a couple of 3s in a row. He prevented teams from focusing on one particular player because there was NO WAY you could leave him open from 3. If you compare them to UNLV, Humphrey was their Anderson Hunt . . the pure shooter whose game didn't translate to the NBA, but was perfect for the college game. I think Noah and Horford's backup is also on an NBA roster. I think his last name was Richard or Richards. I need to look that up too. This year's Memphis team is tough though. When it's all said and done, you my be talking about them having 4 - 5 players who will be playing in the NBA. Memphis vs last year's Florida team would be a very good game.

Steve Fischer, the coach for Michigan back then, was a HORRIBLE coach though. People talk about the Hawks winning in spite of Woody, that Michigan team definitely won in spite of Fischer. The Fab 5 in that sophomore year definitely should've won it all. Fischer was horrible. It still blows my mind how Webber ended up bringing the ball up the court in the final minute of that championship game vs Carolina. He traveled when he first got the ball, but it wasn't called. Then he goes into panic mode, races up the court, and calls time out. Where were one of the guards to go get the ball and bring it up? That would be like Smoove bringing the ball up for us in the final minute. Fischer could recruit, but that's about it. I need to google him to see if he's even still in coaching.

Quote: I think it was 5, maybe 6 years ago, the Hawks guaranteed that we would make the playoffs. Ah yes. That "great" 2002 - 2003 Hawk team with JT, Big Dog, Reef, Ratliff, and Glover. A team very similar to this year's version of the Hawks in many, many ways. ( no bench, high scoring starters, multiple defensive lapses, horrible road team, etc. ) I'm not sure what was happening on this board at that time, but on the ESPN boards, the move to get Big Dog ( an All-Star caliber player at the time ) was seen as the move to not only put us in the playoffs, but also possibly get us a top 4 seed. It was a good move by Babcock that just didn't pan out. Talent wise, there was no reason why that team shouldn't have made the playoffs. That was pretty much the beginning of the end for Lon Krueger.

Quote: Quote: The biggest problem I saw with this game was JJ not identifying the double team soon enough. He needs to see it and pass out of it quicker if he's not going to be able to keep control of the ball better. I think that you are on to something! JJ doesn't seem have above average vision and that maybe why he can't run point for an extended period of time! LMAO. JJ is one of the best passing 2-guards in the league. He can run the point or act as the faciliator of the offense. What he can't do, is guard quick PGs. This thread is hilarious. People should be celebrating that this team won ON THE ROAD against a team that hs been lights out at home for about 2 months now. Instead, people are harping on petty ish that didn't even cost us the game. We damn near led wire to wire tonight, yet, people can't get out of "bytch mode". You'd think we'd lost tonight if you read this thread. LOL . . this is why I've always said that the majority of this fan base is truly schizophrenic. Speaking of schizophrenic . . N. Carolina, who at one point was losing 40 - 12, has now cut the lead to 5. Still 9 minutes to go in the game. Absolutely incredible.

LOL @ don't worry. I just broke it down for you. The only people caring about a Boston vs Atlanta matchup, are us, and New England. TNT isn't going to bypass showing Lebron, to show KG. That isn't going to happen. I'd almost bet $20 that one of our games will be scheduled to be on NBA TV.

If current standings hold, these are your matchups: EAST 1) Boston vs 8) Atlanta 2) Detroit vs 7) Toronto 3) Orlando vs 6) Washington 4) Cleveland vs 5) Philly WEST 1) New Orleans vs 8) Denver 2) San Antonio vs 7) Dallas 3) LA Lakers vs 6) Houston 4) Utah vs 5) Phoenix You know Lebron will be on TNT/ESPN every game. Detroit will probably have every game on cable as well. And you have to assume that EVERY game in the West will probably be on TNT/ESPN, because all of those teams are fairly even and almost all have major NBA stars on them. You'd hope that Boston's "Big 3" has enough star power to keep them on the major cable networks every game we play them. The odd team out, if the seeds hold, would be Orlando and Washington, seeing that Orlando is a small market team, and Washington doesn't necessarily have a following outside of the DC Metroplex. NBA TV over the past few years, have carried a few 1st round games . . mainly the least attractive Eastern Conference games. Having said that, I'd expect 2 of the first 4 games in the Orlando vs Washington series to be on NBA TV. And I'd expect at least one ( maybe two ) of the first 4 Boston vs Atlanta games to be on NBA TV as well. So for all of you not thinking about going to a possible Hawks home game, keep this in mind, if your cable company doesn't carry NBA TV.

Hawks definitely need to take care of the ball this half. We were lucky to be down only 5 at the half. Charlotte is helping us tonight. Last I checked, they were up 7 with 9 minutes to go in the 4th vs Toronto. And Jersey was losing at Detroit. Let's see if the Hawks can help theselves with a win tonight.

Shoot . . . If I were him, I'd say that I tipped the ball too. LOL @ some of you seeing the ball change paths. Horford's "tip" turned that into the perfect inbounds pass then, seeing that it hit TJ right on the money.

Quote: 02 - 03: None of the playoff teams had less than 25 home wins . . missed: Houston ( 28 ), Atlanta ( 26 ), Seattle ( 25 ), and Chicago ( 27 ). Those were the "playoff guarantee" Hawks, that went 26 - 15 at home, but went 9 - 32 on the road. And that Chicago team that year went an incredible 3 - 38 on the road Good Lord. We DO play like the "playoff guarantee" Hawks of 02 - 03. That team literally gave away too many road games. And that team didn't have a bench and HEAVILY relied on a core 6 or so players as well.

In the words of Obama and his supporters . . YES WE CAN!!! And we needed ALL of those 25 wins too. Ish, we may need to win 27 at home, just to be on the safe side.

Quote: he may not be a great 3 pt. shooter but in the clutch he makes them a good amount of the time. Smith's eFG% on his jumpers is 31% this year. And yes, that is horrible for a guy that sees 50% of his shots being jumpers. That's a horrible percentage on your jumper. A case can be made for him not shooting ANY SHOTS outside of 20 feet. His jumper really hasn't improved since he's been in the league. But Cwell, you're right when you say that he does have a tendency to shoot the outside shot better, when the game is on the line. He's won a game this year with a 3 he made when JJ passed him the ball. And in previous seasons, he's hit clutch 3's to win, tie, or keep us in games. Maybe his concentration level is higher during that tine. One thing is for sure, he's not AFRAID to take that shot. He's not afraid of failure.

If Speedy were healthy, we don't trade for Bibby. But seeing that he is here now, you're right. A healthy Speedy would play in front of Acie. You could also make a case for a Speedy - Law backcourt of the bench. Defensively, that would be a pretty good backcourt to insert into a game. Too bad Speedy isn't well enough to play during the playoffs. The people that flat out wasted their vote by selecting Salim, Jeremy, West or Speedy as the starter, instead of being in that 8 man rotation coming off the bench. It's nice to see that the vast majority of Hawksquawk agrees with Woody on the rotation.

Quote: JJ came out of the game after playing 29 minutes and if the bench hadn't blown it that would have been more than enough rest for him considering we are off tonight. None of our starters would have gone over 30 but in just a couple of minutes time they went on a 9-0 run and Woody did the right thing by getting the starters back out there when he did. Woody proves time and time again that he knows this team much better than people give him credit for. Yet, he's always the idiot . . . until the players prove why they don't play.