TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: Man that was a great pass and dunk. Solo needs more playing time. We never get to see what he can do. I think he has the potential to be Dalembert like. Not saying he will be as good but thats about the only player that is really comparible with Solomon. Please. Solo is a fouling machine. That's why he doesn't play.

Quote: I don't see how that works at all. They were both ineffective whether they did the other person's "job" or not. It doesn't matter who is designated to do the job, the job needs to get done somehow. Whether Acie steps up and does Bibby's or Chill does Marvins or whatever, we need to take care of everything. But that's the whole reason of "defining roles". Law on most nights isn't goin to be able to do what Bibby does. Chill on most nights can't score his usual points plus another 8 - 12 points to compensate for Marvin's off game. If Mario West came into a game, and dished out 3 assists, that's good. But if on the other end, his man was taking him to school, that's bad. Why? Because Mario's role is to defend, not to dish out assists. The assists are an added bonus ONLY if Mario is defending, which is why he's in the game in the first place. So overall, Mario isn't doing his job. In the case of Marvin and Smoove, when Smoove is a non-factor on the boards, it forces Horford to work that much harder to get them. If he can't get them, some other guy whose strength isn't rebounding, has to try to get them. That may or may not work out. Marvin did grab 9 rebounds, but 4 of them were within 3 minutes of each other in the 4th quarter. But we all know that we can't depend on Marvin to pick up the rebounding slack. So Smoove has to do his job on the boards. The same goes for Marvin when he isn't making shots. Someone else has to make shots. If a guy's strength isn't making shots, he may not make them either. We all know what happens when Smoove makes an outside shot. He gets shot happy. So just like Smoove and rebounding, Marvin has to make shots. Chill isn't able to do what he did last night, on a nightly basis. And one of the reasons why we almost always lose when JJ has a bad shooting game, is that no one on the team can assume his role as both shooter and playmaker. Bibby is the closest we have to even coming close to duplicating what JJ does for us. And Trace is right. Zaza did his job last night too by using his body on both ends of the floor to somewhat slow down Gooden.

Quote: I thought you were talking directly to me for a sec about my surfing habits! Whoops! LOL. I think that would go for all of us then.

That's all I want these players to do. Do their job. - JJ must be the offensive catalyst, either with his shooting or his playmaking. Like I always say, we need 30 - 35 created points ( own points + points off of his assists ) for us to win on most nights. He came on late, but for the most part, he didn't do his job last night. - Bibby has to be the floor leader of the group, while providing timely offense. He did a decent job of doing that last night, so he did his job. - Marvin needs to knock down most of his open shots from midrange. More than anything else, that's his job. He didn't do that last night, so he has every right to be ripped for his play, despite the fact he grabbed almost 10 boards. - Horford has to be the banger on both ends of the floor and prevent people from owing the paint. Rebounding wise, he did his job. Defensively he didn't. Overall, he didn't do his job. - Smoove has to be the impact player on defense, more than anything, while providng timely offense. Getting 16 or so points from him is good, but our starting PF can't grab just 4 rebounds. Not when our opponent grabs 19 offensive rebounds. Overall, he didn't do his job. - Chill has to be the sparkplug of the team. He did a great job in being just that, and literally saved us from losing by 15 - 20 points. He definitely did his job. If Marvin's and Smoove's numbers were switched, we probably win that game. Let me illustrate why. A 6 - 12 FG, 16 point game from Marvin, is right along what we expect from him. And although we want him to grab more than 4 rebounds, that's more of the norm for him too. His job is to knock down open shots, not necessarily get 10 rebounds. A couple of timely jumpers from Marvin in that 3rd period, slows down that Chicago run. A 3 - 14 FG, 10 point - 9 rebound game out of Smoove, while terrible offensively, doesn't mean that he had a horrible game overall. We've won games with Smoove shooting terribly. If Smoove grabs 9 rebounds, 7 - 8 of those are probably going to be defensive rebounds, which limits 2nd chance points. And Smoove will have a tendency to ignite fast breaks off of his defensive rebounds, especially with outlet passes to Chill. For some reason, Marvin's and Smoove's roles got reversed last night, and it cost us. Guys have to do their jobs on a nightly basis. Marvin can't miss 11 shots and Smoove can't grab just 4 rebounds, and expect us to win.

Quote: They should have stayed home. Marvin was 3-14 and looked like he had grease on his fingers. Horford got completely clowned by Gooden and had more turnovers than points. Add Smoove to that list as well. We can't have our PF grabbing 4 rebounds, while the other team gets offensive rebound after offensive rebound. As I say always, Smoove's rebounding is much more important than his points. This team as a whole just have to learn how to box out.

Quote: Yeah to cut the lead to 5 after that dumbass fvcked it up. Smoove lost us another game. I don't understand Woody, we were playing the best with Chill, Marv and Horford in there and than he puts Smoove so that Smoove doesn't get piss off. Fvck him woody let him whine about it all day who gives a sh!t, this is a team game not to pleas some dumbass. We were down 94-90 with over 2 minutes left when that selfish bustard decides to drive on 3 players. Than Gordon hits the 3 and we are down 7. ball game! I personnaly don't care whether he resigns with us or not. I know he will play good against us anytime we face his new team though. Marvin sucks, but Smoove can be worse. I kind of thought the same thing when I saw Smoove come back into the game. Woody routinely will go with the group that is playing the best in the 4th quarter. Normally, if Chill is playing well and Marvin is out, Marvin isn't getting back in the game. If Smoove is playing well at center, and Horford is out, Horford won't get back in either. So you kind of wonder why Woody didn't keep Smith out, especially seeing that he only had 2 rebounds at the time, and Marvin was actually rebounding the ball well in the 4th quarter ( 4 rebounds ). Chicago grabbed 19 offensive rebounds tonight. That's why we lost. And my main complaint about Smoove, is that he doesn't ALWAYS play like a PF should play. This kid has to change his mindset, and be ready for WAR every night. It's unfair for Horford to have to shoulder the entire burden of grabbing every rebound. The one thing Smoove HAS to do on a nightly basis, is rebound. When he grabs 6 rebounds or less in a game, we're 6 - 11.

Quote: where the hell is the rebounding someone needs to light a fire under these guys asses. We're not going to win when JJ isn't lighting it up offensvely and Smoove is not rebounding the basketball. More than his shooting, that is the fatal flaw in Smoove's game . . consistent rebounding. As the PF on this team, he has to be a big time rebounder every night, even when he's not scoring . . . like Horford tonight. LOL @ Gooden looking like the best PF in the East tonight. It'll be interesting to see if this team can make a serious run in the 4th or if they'll just lay down and die.

A team drafting in the top 3 should ALWAYS be drafting a guy that can immeadiately start for you. The Hawks made the mistake of keeping Harrington around, and not throwing Marvn right into the fire. They brought him along slowly, too slowly. Comparing Marvin to 2 PGs is totally unfair to him. Both of those guards got a chance to be the leaders of their squads almost from the jump. The only way a forward can do that, if you clear room for him, much like Seattle did for Durant. If Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis were still around, Durant's impact as a rookie would be far less than it is now. Having said that, Marvin does have to expand his game during the offseason. Offensively, he needs to decide if he's going to be a slasher with a midrange shot . . . or a midrange shooter that can also knock down the 3-ball that also goes to the hole occasionally. Then, he needs to make a commitment to being one of the best perimter defensive player in the league, because he has the wingspan to be that. He's shown flashes of being a very good defender at times. But enough about Marvin. Let's talk about Megan Good. Damn. I could suck on those lips all day long.

Quote: Chicago has lost 2 in a row and we have lost 6 straight in Chicago. This game may be do or die for them. If they lose, they are 4 games back, if they win they are 2. They need this game more than us and that is what I fear. If we continue to play as we have recently, we should have no problem beating this team. What I would like to see tonite: -Bibby continue to show no effects from his heel injury. The last 2 days off should have helped some more. -JJ continue to lead the way -Smoove play smarter...let Bibby bring the ball up and post up/drive more -Horford get another double/double and more setups from Bibby -DEFENSE!!!!! We need the effort on D. Defense is 90% effort. -No bad quarters.....consistent play. -Marvin wake up! I love when he plays tough, but it seems to be hit or miss lately -Chillz continue his solid play around the baseline -Acie continue on the road to where he was GO HAWKS!!!! Good Lord Jack. Just like the Jersey game, we could EASILY lose this game. Chicago isn't a team that is void of talent. All it would take is for Gordon to have one of those games where he is red hot, like he has from time to time. We are still one of the worst road teams in the league, so NOTHING is guaranteed when we're playing away from Philips. Beating the Bulls tonight hs to be considered one of those luxury type wins.

Philly is playing tremendous defense these days. And they're rebounding the basketball well too. Hmmmm . . that looks familiar. On those highlights last night, Iggy looked just like a young Latrell Spreewell with how active he was on both ends of the floor and how he was finishing when he got to the rim. Their young guys ( Young, Carney, Williams ) stay in attack mode whenever they're in the game. And Dre Miller does what he always does, play solid ball without making mistakes. We actually still match up well with Philly, but there is no doubt that they are a very dangerous team these days. If I'm Cleveland or Orlando, I definitely wouldn't want to draw them in the first round.

Quote: With JS, JJ, and JC as our top 3 [our Roland Rating average for them is 4.07. With Maggette, JS, and Kaman our Roland Rating is 4.93. That's 1 point greater than our current top 3 Roland Rating. Of course we'd still be a ways off, but closer with more positions covered. W [*] Smoove, JJ, and Chill are our top 3 players? Really?

Quote: What the heck has Kaman ever done beside have ONE HALF of a good season on a sorry team where he was the primary offensive option???? You could actually say the same thing about Smoove ( as a pseudo-2nd option ), or Andrew Bynum ( who looked damn good as the starter for about a month and a half ). Quote: This guy is another Dampier waiting to happen. Only if he is injury-prone all the time. Kaman was better than Dampier as soon as he stepped into the league. Personally, my first choice would be to go after Brand. But Kaman has already taken a leap as a player, that Dampier nevr took. This is all pipe dream talk anyway. The Clippers would be complete idiots to trade Kaman.

Quote: thank you and forget marketing we dont have merchandise outside phillips this would be an awesome trade for both teams and remember kaman is only 26 You're right about that. LOL @ marketing. yi would've been the pick, instead of Horford, if the Hawks were that concerned about marketing. I just wonder how mank Hawks jerseys are able to be bought in a store outside of metro Atlanta. I sure can't find any in Tennessee. The white JJ and blue Horford jersey were both bought @ Philips. This fan base whines and cries about everything, but they know that this team is flawed just by its makeup. They cry about a center, but would pass up an opportunity to get a guy that many consider to be a top 10, even top 7 center, just to keep Smoove . . a guy that they constantly complain about. Hell, only D-Howard and Bosh ( when he plays the 5 ) may be a better center than Kaman if he came East. Kaman would give us the ability to play any style we wanted, and force teams to match up wit us, instead of the other way around.

Quote: The real reason this trade will never happen...MONEY! Kaman has 0 marketing ability. I know you're thinking in terms of winning, but the ownership also thinks in terms of additional sales. This team will have national games next year, because of their play this year. No playoffs and no more than 5 games...Playoffs and somewhere between 10 and 20 depending upon how far they go and how they compete. After people are reminded of Josh's abilities, his marketability will go up which means more money for the ASG. Kaman on national tv gets you nothing. Now of course winning gets you more national tv, but look at Detroit...for other reasons as well you keep Rasheed and not Ben, due to marketability. Other than the hair, Ben has no marketing ability. Rasheed has a much more marketable personality than Ben. No one else on that team has any personality. Joe and Josh are the most marketable players we have, so they won't be going anywhere. Al will join them in that cat next year. Wow. Big Ben was EASILY the most popular and marketable player for the Pistons. I didn't see people painting white patches in their head in honor of Rasheed. But they wore the fros all the time. And when they won the title, Rasheed was the final piece they needed, but Big Ben was the anchor to everything that team done. Many considered him the Pistons' most important piece. Remember, tjat guy was a DOMINANT rebounder and a perennial favorite to win Defensive Player of the Year for about 3 seasons. Good premise, HORRIBLE example. Big Ben was moved, because he was starting to get sorry. It had nothing to do with marketibility. And if a deal ever came up Kaman for Smoove, you don't even think twice about not making that deal. Remember, the guy who would be replacing Smoove, is Horford. Kaman instantly gives us a low post threat on offense, and a highly efficent rebounder on both ends of the floor. Most of all, he's a TRUE center that enables Horford to play the 4. With Kaman beside him, Al might blow up like a nuclear bomb. Teams wouldn't be able to afford to double JJ, because Kaman would KILL THEM inside. Double Kaman in the post, and he kicks it out to JJ, Bibby or Marvin. That move would perfectly balance out this team.

It's too easy to be upbeat, so they always have to have some sort of drama going on about the Hawks. Plus, they're afraid to be positive, for fear of being let down again. To me, these next 7 games are our most critical stretch of the season. There is no excuse for this team to not win 4 or 5 of these games during that stretch. I guess they're waiting to see how we play against Chicago in the 2 games this week, before really getting excited about our possible position in the playofffs. Until then, keep expecting episodes of "The Young and the Squawkless" on this board.

Quote: There is real heat on Avery here in Dallas. However I think Dirk's injury will amount to a free pass for Avery this year. There is some talk that the "little General" is wearing out his welcome. His intensity and fire would be a huge change to the Hawks (kind of like going from Gailey to Paul Johnson if you follow GT football). The problem in Dallas is Dirk's soft azz, not Avery. He's the reason why Dallas isn't clearly the top team in the West. If you have 6-5 to 6-7 guys guarding you, why hang out on the perimeter all the time? Post those guys up, and mke them foul you. Avery has tried to get him tough, but he just can't do it. A guy like Avery might do wonders for Smoove, Marvin and Acie.

Quote: No way. It's not so much the talent that has been the major problem (although it has been a big contributing factor), it's the fact that Woodson has done nothing to coach up the talent that he has had on the team. He still makes bad substitutions, and has not adequately developed some guys. Hell, he had Zaza starting over Horford at the beginning of the season. In large part, it took Zaza getting hurt to force Woodson to start Horford... Now, when push comes to shove, Woodson tried to rely on Solomon Jones and Salim for good minutes. The problem is, by and large, they didn't do well because ever since they got here Woodson has done little to develop their games. It's no wonder they are largely inconsistent. He doesnt play either of them now, Jeremy Richardson doesnt get any PT, and Mario West (although I dont understand the love affair with him) gets his complimentary 28 seconds of PT every night. Go figure. He still leaves players on the bench too long, wont let players play with fouls (especially if they have two in the first half), hasn't established an identifiable style of play or system, hasn't done anything to corral Smoove and his insistence on taking long jumpers, yanks Acie out as soon as he makes a mistake, would play Lue wayy too much and then started that with Pachulia again, etc etc. Whether we make the playoffs or not, both BK and Woodson have to go. We need a real coach in here who will correct the many egregious problems I described above. Some of you still don't get it. People can question Walter on whether our fan base overrate the talent of our main guys. But there is NO DOUBT that some of you overrate this bench. And before I condemn anybody else, I have to condemn MYSELF for overrating the bench. Guys like Salim, Solo, West, and Jeremy would NEVER see consistent minutes off the bench off of ANY current playoff team. NOT A ONE. Jeremy has consistently bounced around the league. Salim is too small to play the 2 and not skilled enough to play the 1. Solo is literally a hacking machine, if he doesn't get a weakside block. And West is nowhere near the defensive "stopper" that people make him out to be. Out of all of those guys, Salim is the only one that can possibly step in and make a solid contribution. And that's only if you pair him with the right group ( i.e. - play him alongside JJ ). He's a guy that you have to play alongside a playmaking big guard or small forward. So to be totally honest, I don't blame Woody with going with 8 guys each night. Everybody can't play every night. Those bottom 4 guys should only see time if multiple guys in our core group are in foul trouble. And if the 3 guys we do play off the bench ( Zaza, Chill, and Acie ) don't play well, then we're better off givng the starters heavy minutes. I like Acie, but Woody was exactly right in not playing him in the 2nd half of the Orlando game. Development does NOT take precedence over winning games. Maybe in year 1 & 2 for Woody it did, but not now.

Quote: Howard didn't play in the NBA before he was 23 and he already played in an allstar game. You're right. But Marvin and Josh Howard are progressing at the same rate. The difference with Howard game in his 2nd year, when he got significant time in the playoffs, and played well. Maybe that's what Marvin needs to get him to that next level. On the national stage, his defense may even get noticed, since the majority of the Squawk always rags him about his defensive effort.

My guess would be Marvin and Josh Howard. I remember writing something earlier in the season that stated that Marvin and Howard were progressing at almost the exact same rate in each of their first 3 years in the NBA. I agree that the 3 point shot needs to be the next thing that Marvin adds to his offensive game. But my guess is Josh Howard.

I believe Salim shot 50% FG and 50% 3FG in his senior year at Arizona. At 6-3 and a SG, Curry better be a top 5 talent, for him to be effective on the pro level. He will have a chance to keep raising his stock, if he keeps playing the way he's playing. As a 6-3 SG, you almost have to be a super freak type athlete, like a Monta Ellis, or ultra-strong like Ben Gordon. Curry has heart though, and the ability to create his own shot. The guys that can create their own shot, have at least a chance to make a pro team like Salim did. Chris Lofton at Tennessee, almost has no shot on the next level, as a 6-2 SG. As for Hibbert, no way he drops out of the top 10. Teams just covet big men too much, to let him slide like that. He might even go top 5. Memphis definitely takes Hibbert. Seattle takes either he or Rose.

Quote: Mar 14 LA Clippers-----W Plus Win Mar 16 @ NY Knicks------W Mar 17 @ Washington-----W Mar 19 @ New Jersey-----L Mar 22 Orlando-----W Plus Win Mar 25 @ Chicago--------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Mar 26 Milwaukee--------W Mar 28 Chicago----------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Mar 30 NY Knicks--------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Mar 31 @ Memphis--------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) APRIL OPPONENT Apr 2 Toronto Apr 4 Philadelphia-----W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Apr 5 @ Philadelphia---W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Apr 8 @ Indiana--------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Apr 11 @ NY Knicks------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Apr 12 Boston Apr 15 Orlando Apr 16 @ Miami----------W (WILL BE TANKING IT) Well, it looks like I finally got a game wrong. lol VERY HAPPY TO SAY IT WAS THE L THAT I GOT WRONG. So by your projections, we're about to win 9 of our next 10 games, and be 39 - 40 going into the home game vs Boston. That's the same type of run Golden St went on last season. That also probably vaults us into at least 7th, ahead of possibly Toronto, who has been struggling lately. And if we do indeed sweep Philly, we'd even be close to 6th with a record like that. Nice. If we were that hot, it'll be interesting to see how hard either Boston or Orlando would play us at the end of the year. Boston may let up, while Orlando may go all out ( if it prevents us from getting the 6th spot and playing them in the 1st round ). LOL . . that streak, plus 2 wins in the playoffs, gets Woody at least a 1 to 2-year extension.

. . . that INSISTED that Woody run MORE of the offense through Marvin back in December, when he was our most consistent offensive player? Back in November, people wanted Smoove traded. In December, everything was all good. In January, JJ was on the Hawksquawk trading block. February, it was Childress. Now that March is here, it's Marvin's turn to feel the ire of the Squawk. I guess Bibby will be the target in April.

At the beginning of the season, my sig was this:: I want to see more SHAWN KEMP, and less RASHEED WALLACE, in Josh Smith this season This thread is somewhat misguided, but I do understand some of the point of it. This is all about Smoove's mentality as a player. People earlier in the year were complaining about him not taking it hard to the hole and dunking on people, instead of shooting a lay-up. A guy like Kemp ALWAYS tried to dunk on you. He had a fierceness about his game that was undeniable and vry intimidating. While Smoove does hustle his azz off a times, the reality is that he's just a little soft to be playing the 4. Kind of like Rashard Lewis. If Smoove had his preference, he'd much rather play like Lewis or Rasheed, than Kemp. The only time I see that Kemp-like fierceness, is when he gets going full steam ahead with a clear path to the rim. If he played like Kemp, we'd be a much more dangerous team. Here's something that I rarely see from Smith. How many times has he caught an offensive rebound in the air, and dunked it all in one motion? You'd think with his athleticism, you'd see that a lot from him, but you don't. You don't see it because he rarely dives into the lane from the perimeter to grab an offensive rebound. Diesel mentioned early in this season about Smoove's mindset being that of a true SF, and that he shouldn't be forced to play the 4. The problem though, is that he can't get away with playing SF on the NBA level, unlike Horford can at center. Offensively and defensively, Smoove's much better off playing the 4. Because of that, his mindset must match his skill set as a player. Which means the kid needs to get tougher, more than anything else. That's going to be the one thing that separates him from being a good player, or a great player. I always look at how Smoove is rebounding, to determine whether he's into a game or not. His rebounding is more important than his scoring. He grabbed 4 rebounds the other night. That just can't happen. He has the athleticism to be a consistent 10 - 12 rebound a night guy, even playing alongside Horford. Having said all of this, there is NO WAY IN HELL YOU TRADE SMOOVE FOR SOME MEDIOCRE OR DEFENSIVE CENTER, just so Horford can play PF!!! A Dalembert - Horford - Williams frontline will not ne better than a Horford - Smith - Williams frontline next year. PF might be Horford's best position, but he's more than proven that he can be more than effective playing center. And if he has to play it next year, he'll be even better. People talk about how Nellie would trade Biendrins for Smoove in a heartbeat, just think how Horford would look with the Warriors? They's probably give us Biendrins and a player like Harrington, if we were dumb enough to give them Horford. The only feesible idea I'll give serious thought to, would be to not re-sign Smoove and possibly not even Childress, to go after Elton Brand. Having Brand and Horford at the 4 and 5 spots, would be a big time upgrade . . IF . . Brand can play at the level he was at before he ruptured his Achille's tendon. Now you're talking about a player who can score down on the block, or consitently knock down the mid rage jumper, while playing decent low post defense on people. Bibby JJ Marvin Brand Horford That's a POTENT and balanced lineup right there. That's the only feesible player I even think about moving Smoove for.

Quote: That said, I hoped we would win but as Northcyde pointed out before the game, what were the odds of us winning 3 road games in a row when we had only won 7 road games ALL SEASON prior to this latest road trip? We are a MUCH better home team than road team and we have 8 remaining home games versus 6 road games. Conversely, NJ has a 6 home games and 8 road games remaining in addition to a tougher schedule. The bottom line is that last night's win would have been HUGE for momentum's sake but it was certainly not the end of the world. If we can go 6-2 in our last 8 home games and beat MEM, NY and MIA on the road, I think we get in with a 38-44 record. Exactly. And I think you're right on the mark with that 38 win total. If we win the games that we're SUPPOSED to win, we'll be in that 8th spot at the end. Like you, I'm more worried about giving away games against Memphis and the Knicks on the road, and the Chicago game at home. Losing against Jersey is not a game I'm overly worried about. It was much more of a must-win game for them, than it was for us.

Quote: WTF are you thinking man? You shutdown your starters through the first half if he have two quick fouls and you shutdown your starters thoughout the third if he picks up his third foul even if there's plenty of time remaining. Woody, are you purposely destroying the Hawks? Do you know that the other team can turn the game around if you did this, you moron? While it was stupid of him to sit JJ that early after only 3 fouls, I do see ( from his vantage point ) why he did it. He did it because he knows he can't trust the bench late in the game, if JJ fouled out. A lot of Hawksquawk have faith in Mario, Salim, ad Jeremy, but Woody doesn't. So you might as well play the guys he does trust ( Chill & Zaza ) early, and hope that JJ can crank it back up when he comes in the game later on. The real question might be this: Why can't this team function even a little bit, without JJ in the lineup? Everybody always says that Woody should give JJ a rest. This time, he rested him real early, and the rest of the guys on the floor only halfway responded. Having said that, Woody coacches like an overly-cautious Spades player. He can have the Ace and King of Spades in his hand. But because the Big Joker and Little Joker are still in somebody's hand, he'll let someone cut a book without challenging it with his 2 high Spades, which lets them get a cheap book. example: ( Woody and his partner bidded 7 for the hand. They have 5 books, with 4 more chances/plays of the hand to reach 7. Key play of the hand comes right here. ) player (1) - plays Jack of Hearts player (2) - because she has no Hearts, cuts with a 5 of Spades Woody is player (3) - He has the Ace, King, and 8 of Spades he can cut with. Instead of being aggressive, and playing the Ace or the King, to force Player (4) to possibly cut over him with one of the Jokers if he has one, Woody would play the 8 of Spades and hope that would be enough to get the book or trick. player (4) - who had the Big Joker, the 9, and the 4 of Spades to cut with, plays the 9 and wins the book. Woody didn't make a horrible play by playing the 8 of Spades. It was just too safe of a play. But the fact that player 4 won the book with the 9 of Spades, gave that team a book that they didn't count on. And that's what made it a horrible play. On the final play of the hand, Woody would still be holding his Ace, his partner would have the Lil Joker, and player 4 would have the Big Joker, to win the book at the end. And of course, that would end up being the book that got Woody SET, and they'd have to go back -70 points. JJ was Woody's Ace of Spades tonight, that he tried to hold onto too long. And that got him SET tonight.