TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: I have never seen the rule inforced. I have never seen any one "waving their hands" infront of a player face either. To me that is different then getting a hand in the face on a shot attempt in college basketball. Count how many times you see or hear a commentator mention this happens and it is never inforced. Nothing shady about it. This world of "Conspiracy Theorists" is pretty annoying to the rest of us. I have also never seen states inforce their laws that blow jobs are illegal either. Surely there is nothing wrong with a good ole' BJ ?............But its against the law ! (Oh please !) I've seen face guarding a little in the NBA back when they were pretty much letting you put your hands all over the man with the ball. But even on those occasions, it was more of them putting their hand on the top of the ball handler's head, trying to keep them from blowing by them on the dribble drive. Now I DO see face guardng in girl's/women's basketball sometimes. They'll blatantly do it. Tennessee's PG Shannon Bobbitt will do it on occasion when guarding a taller guard. She'll get up in her face and just start waving her hands as close to her opponent's face as possible. And they never call it. What Battier did to Kobe over the weekend, isn't even close to face guarding. If that's face guarding, you could call that all the time, like holding in football. Ish, Kobe will literally tap you on the nose sometimes.

Early in the year, I noticed a correlation between Smoove's rebounding with winning and losing. Look up our record when Smoove grabs 10 or more rebounds. Then 12 or more rebounds. Then go the other way and see our record when he grabs 7 or less rebounds.

! Quote: For me, tonight's game is critical. Not from a team standpoint (more on this later), but from a fan's perspective. A win tonight gets me pulled back into watching the team tip off to final buzzer. Over the past few weeks I just got sick of watching the team give up easy baskets and still seeing Woodson fumbling on the sidelines. As a fan I want to watch my favorite team, but man, the last few weeks have been brutal. The bad news that continually swarms around this team like a plague of locusts kills my enthusiasm. The idea that Woodson would have been gone if not for Jr's meddling is just sickening. The idea that we could have had Calderon for Childress in the off-season, only to be stymied once again by Jr is disheartening. Now, however, we have our point in Bibby. It has been what, 16 games since we acquired Bibby. It seems longer, but I think that is the right number. Over those games we have seen the defense disappear. We have seen the team quit on Woodson. Then, over the past 10 days or so, we have seen JJ erupt to his old form. Maybe JJ is healthy for the fist time this season. Maybe Bibby is finally getting to know the guys and the guys are getting to know him. Maybe it's both of these factors coming together at the same time. What ever the case may be, I want the Hawks to win. I want to be able to root for this team and get excited about it. Thus, tonight is critical for me as a fan. A win tonight, by 1 or 25, brings me back into the fold of watching this team. Even though I just cannot stand Woodson, I will support the team. A loss, however, just confirms that the meddling of Jr doomed this club from the beginning of the season. A loss means that the Hawks are doomed to poor play for the rest of the season. NJ is not a very good team. The Hawks are the better team, the issue is can the Hawks pull themselves together to win 4 in a row to solidify this playoff run. Looking at tonight's game from a less passionate view, a loss means very little in the standings. NJ, Chi, and the Hawks will continue to "battle" for the 8th seed the rest of the season. It will probably come down to the last 3 or so games in the season before we know who has the final playoff spot. A win tonight, however, moves the Hawks ahead in the race, and might propel them to a strong, final run. My problem with this, is that you're just not being honest with yourself about this team. If it's anything you should've learned about this team this year, is that we're very consistent at being inconsistent. We could very easily lose tonight, and I think you know that. In reality, winning 2 of these road games already, is a major accomplishment for this team. As bad as we've been on the road this yar, I'm shocked that a hot Wizards team didn't beat us. So I won't be shocked if this team gives it right back tonight. Jersey is just like we are though. They're a maddening inconsistent ball team. We're in no way, shape, or form so much better than Jersey, that we can go right in and expect victory tonight. LOL . . especially seeing that we've lost 11 out of 12 against Jersey in Jersey . . with the only win being the 3 at the buzzer that "the Closer" T-Lue hit last year. Tonight's game should not make or break how you view the Hawks for the rest of the season. We can lose tonight, and still win 5 of our next 7, and be the #8 seed. This team just doesn't play well on the road. This fan base just has to accept that. If they win tonight, it's a big time accomplishment for this team. If they lose, mission of winning 2 of these 3 road games, is stll accomplished. Losing games we should win at home, bugs me much more, than those types of games we've lost on the road.

Definitely Chicago. Jersey losing in consecutive nights will give us a full 2-game cushion over them. And we'll have a chance to put some distance between us and Chicago when we play them twice in like a 10 day span, starting next week. Going 3 - 0 vs Chi and Jersey will go a long way in making the playoffs. Then if we happen to win those back-to-back/home and home games vs Philly, we may even be able to be in position to move up to 7th.

Bibby shooting the ball very well tonight. Mario West fans almost had a highlight reel dunk to celebrate. The reserves just need to hold on in the 4th, and keep this lead until the starters all come back. Let Smoove rest until mid-4th quarter, then end this game with a victory.

Chill misses a point blank shot . . . then hits a tough shot 2 minutes later in traffic. This is a very good game.

Damn . . does this team ever box out?

Too bad they gave the lead right back.

LOL @ you guys. Maybe Joey Crack just needed a line to rhyme with New Yawk. He could also be talking about the the college team, the St Joe's Hawks, seeing that they're based in Philly. More conspiracy theories about this team . . lol.

He came to the program with it in a complete mess. He's not the best Xs and Os guys in the world. Like the Hawks, his team had to play 2 games in one day ( although they actually played 2 FULL games today, and won both of them ) He probably should be fired after the SEC tournament. But his guys didn't quit on him, and Georgia now finds themselves in the SEC championship game tomorrow .. against one of the 4 teams that they happened to beat in the SEC, Arkansas. LOL . . and if the SEC decides to sell tickets to tomorrow's game, it'll be a virtual home game for the Bulldogs, in of all places, at Georgia Tech. Dennis Felton is the college version of Woody. A guy, despite all of his shortcomings, can still get his guys to play hard, even when everyone else has given up on them.

Quote: I bashed him and with good reason. He cried and whined from jump 'bout needing help. Guys around him has to think Joe felt them "under par". That is not leadership, it is divisive. On the court he was punked several times by Roy, ALL of Boston, Redd, The Nets and others. If you have a problem with the coach and/or management you can choose to speak privately (which is better) or publicly. But, you need to be busting your butt and backing up with your play. It is good to see him step it up. It has been needed and if he had played on his expected level the team would be at the 6th seed, at least. Marvin, Zaza and Acie are disappointing. they need to grab their balls too. LOL . . everything that JJ said at the beginning of the season was the ABSOLUTE TRUTH !!! He did the exact same thing that Kobe and PaUl Pierce did. If this organization would've pulled the trigger on a deal involving our expiring contracts to get an established good veteran player sooner, we might be in a much better situation than we're in right now. It should be obvious now that he was exactly right. The problem with some of you guys, is that you expect JJ to play like a megastar every night. He hasn't been playing like an all-star the past few weeks, he's playing like an MVP candidate. With Bibby here, he doesn't have to work nearly as hard every night, and can just do what he does best. He doesn't have the athleticism to carry a team like a Wade, Kobe or a LeBron does. He needed some help with the ballhandling, so that he can get in position to get good looks at the hoop. It's a luxury to him to have a Bibby-like PG that can find him anywhere on the court. Speaking privately to Woody and the ASG, so that you can get them to make a move? LOL . . you forget that we don't have the typical management group here.

I do think that we could actually close the season with a 5 game win streak, if Boston and Orlando have nothng to play for, as far as seeding goes. Then, you have to figure that Miami, New York, and possibly Indiana would just want to get the season over with at that point. They may shut a few people down for the year or let the younger guys that haven't played much, get decent playing time.

Quote: Quote: Sun 16 @ New York W Mon 17 @ Washington L Wed 19 @ New Jersey L Sat 22 vs Orlando L Tue 25 @ Chicago L Wed 26 vs Milwaukee W Fri 28 vs Chicago W Sun 30 vs New York W Mon 31 @ Memphis W Wed 02 vs Toronto L Fri 04 vs Philadelphia W Sat 05 @ Philadelphia L Tue 08 @ Indiana L Fri 11 @ New York L Sat 12 vs Boston L Tue 15 vs Orlando W Wed 16 @ Miami W 3-6 on the road 5-3 at home 8-9 overall A pathetic 35 wins. I think it's pretty freaking pessimistic to suggest we will lose 4 out of our next 5 games. You're right. It is pessimistic. But we've only . . . OH MY GOD WHAT A SHOT BY THE KID AT GEORGIA!!!! A turnaround fadeaway jumper from 3? UGA up by 1 with a second left. As I was saying . . but we've only won 2 of our last 8 games. It might be more realistic than pessimistic. I just want them to beat Chicago twice, Philly twice, and Jersey once, if we only won 8 or 9 of these games. That would at least give us a chance to sneak in. We have a more than decent shot to win 10 though. LOL @ sorry azz Georgia in the semifinals tonight.

I'm curious to see if we're actually still on track to do what we need to do, according to your projections. - 3 games vs the Knicks. - 2 games against both Chicago and Philly. ( which I think will make or break us ) - Still another game against Memphis. - Possible throw-away games at the end of the year by Orlando and Boston, because they won't be able to improve their playoff position - a HUGE game vs Jersey LOL . . in the last 28 games, I think about 18 of those were against playoff caliber teams, with over 1/2 of thoe games being vs the West playoff teams. This is the exact same situation that Glden St was in last year, before their schedule softened a bit, and they went on their run. While I don't chalk up the Clipper game as an automatic win at all ( because that team could easily beat us ), a win tonight could really spark this team against the equal and lesser competition that we have coming up. Swatguy may be right. But I think we're either going to go on a run, and possibly win 11 or 12 of these final 18 games . . or this team is going to go totally in the toilet, and will have to fight hard just to win 5 or 6 games.

The list showing what games you projected the Hawks probably would win, in comparison to what has actually happened. I want to say it was Adobozz, but I'm not sure. At any rate, it would be interesting to see how that list of games look right now, compared to your projections.

Quote: I agree with you coachx... Smooth came right out of HS into the outstretched arms of the ASG. After his first year, he already had more power than Woody and realized this shortly thereafter, hence the well-documented "maturity issues." How often does Woody even recognize, let alone discipline, JSmoove after his many dumbA** jumpers or prayer jump-hooks? The answer is never. Like you mentioned, Smoove needs (1) discipline and (2) BBIQ. The first one requires a HC that forces him to play within his limits or risk riding the pine, and would still make him a dangerous player because he can do so many things even with his current skill level. Hopefully, he will realize that his unique talents -- the ability to jump high & fast with his long arms and a 6-9 frame -- could make him an elite post player if he developed those skills. Often, IQ develops from discipline as a player understands (i.e. is taught) what he has to do from a fundamentals standpoint and improves his game incrementally to take advantage of newly-developed skills. This is why I'm reluctant to judge guys like Smoove and Marvin who have (had?) superstar potential... they simply haven't had the teaching to develop their skills. With Marvin's case, his development may be irreparable as his confidence is likely shattered from years of second-guessing... You guys make this sound so easy, without looking at the makeup of our team. Woody has tried to reign in Smoove in the past, by inserting Shelden in the lineup. But it's hard to discipline a player, when his backup is killing the team with his poor play. At the beginning of the season, the supposedly deep Hawks frontcourt would've enabled Woody to do just what you suggested. I think if Zaza was healthy to start the year, and was worth a damn, Horforf would've been Smoove's "yoke". He would've been the guy that Woody went to, in order to try to control Smoove when he got too wild. But with Shelden getting worse and worse, and Zaza becoming a completely garbage player, whom do you suggest Woody try to bench Smoove in favor of? Solo? Marvin at the 4? I pointed out in that "stats" thread yesterday just how important Smoove is defensively to this ballclub. So when you try to discipline Smoove these days, with only Zaza, Marvin, and Solo as your options, you severely hamper this team defensively. And I bet you that Josh Smith definitely knows this. So for every bad shot on offense, he'll try to make up for it, with a good play on defense.

Quote: Smith has many "bad habits" that the current staff allows him to get away with. He needs direction, he needs a teacher, a coach to crack the whip and erase these bad habits. Larry Brown is the man for the job. I have not been big on Brown coaching the Hawks until very recently. This team is serioulsly lacking any semblance of order. Larry Brown will bring order and control. He would make Josh play within himself and if he could mentor Acie Law ,as he did Billups, it would be a God send. Starbury was too stubborn to listen to Larry Brown........Law is not too stubborn, he is very coachable......to bad we don't have a coach to "coach him up." We are better then 90% of the teams in the NBA from an atheletic stand point. Houston has inferior athletes on their roster compared to the Hawks (exception McGrady). Yet, with good coaching, and organized game plan they win 20 games in a row. Consistency like that only comes with playing with a high level of basketball IQ.....which the current Hawks team and coaching staff are obviously lacking. Yep . . just like Larry Brown got the job done with the Knicks with all of those players that had bad habits. Woody needs to go, but a lot of you are just fooling yourselves if you think a mere coaching change is going to make everything all better. The Rockets have highly intelligent players who have always been like that ever since they came into the league. Battier and Hayes were 2 of the smartest college players I've ever seen. Scola plays smart, as most international players ( minus Zaza ) do. Deke hs always been an intelligent player. And T-Mac, whom may lack a little heart like his cousin sometimes, is also a smart basketball player. The most athletic team rarely wins anything in sports, which is why I'm scared to death for my Vols in the NCAA tournament. I can see them going all the way, or losing to a smart team that controls tempo ( like Kentucky did to them a few weeks ago when they almost beat us ) in the 2nd round. Almost every team Brown went to, he had some smart players to work with . . except in NY, and that team failed horribly. Here, he might have similar problems if Smoove is still one of the main pieces. That being said, I'm not against having Brown here at all. But don't be shocked if he can't get this team, as currently constructed, to win either. One thing with Brown though . . say bye-bye to the "uptempo/trying to play a little faster" style, if we get him.

KB, i don't disagree with you or CoachX. But somtimes, you just can't depend on your eyes either. When you depend on your eyes only, it's easy to just focus on what a guy does well, and downplay what he doesn't do to help the team. And vice versa. I've long said that Smith should be a much better rebounder than what he is now. With his athleticsm, he should be like a young Shawn Marion on the boards. The reason he isn't a better rebounder, is because he likes to hang out on the perimeter too much, when other people have the ball. And he doesn't crash the offensive board hard at all. So to put a tangible number on what he doesn't do on the offensive boards, the stats on offensive rebounding CLEARLY show a dropoff in that category, when he's in the game. And it's even worse for Marvin. So when you see those two with significant dropoffs, and the rest of the team don't show that kind of dropoff when they're in the game, the blame for some of the lack of offensive rebounding has to be placed on those 2. Conversely, you have to give tremendous credit to how Chill his the boards. It's the little things that these players are not doing, that are killing us in a lot of these close games. Using your eyes AND the stats, correctly point out where the potential problems lie.

Quote: Damned if you do damned if you don't. Chillz is often time the finisher on the break. That is the reason for many of your numbers such as scoring alot of points with less then 10 seconds gone on the shot clock. That tends to happen when you score on a fast break. Who cares when Chillz shoots as long as he is shooting 58 % from the field. I thought this team was at its best when the wings are running and scoring on the break before the defense can set up? Now Chillz is in trouble for doing just that. He is the last guy back on D alot b/c he is the only guy crashing the offensive boards. So let me get this right. You want Chillz to crash the defensive boards and stop running and finishing or cleaning up fast breaks which he is good at. You want Chillz to get back on defense and stop crashing the boards on offense...which he is also good at. Man, that makes no sense once you apply a little logic. Every action has a reaction. My opinion on this team, is that playing fast has not led to victories. It only makes the offense look better. I only want Chill out on the break, if we've forced a turnover. Otherwie, I'd rather for him to crash the boards, to prevent all of those 2nd chance opportunities that people get aganst us. And it's not just him, it's all of those guys. Hit the boards and don't be trying to sneak out for an easy score. Count the number of offensive rebounds Houston gets tonight, simply because we only have 2 bodies in position to get a rebound, instead of 3 or 4. 2nd chance points kill this team. I have no problem with Chill's "cherry picking" game on offense. Since Smoove and Marvin won't hit the offensive boards like they should, I have no problem with chill doing it.

Quote: If these stats aren't lying, then...they fall in line with what me and Ex have been saying about Chillz. He plays no D and he scores cheap points. All points, do have value--however. But drug money, spends like a paycheck--too The problem I see with Chill's production, is that he doesn't consitently do it on a nightly basis. Chill will have a great game one night, and totally be a non-factor the next. To me, he should never have a game in which he gets 10 points or less. Not with the amount of PT he gets. I just wish that Woody wouldn't be so loyal to get him his minutes at times. If he's not doing his usual things on the boards and getting out and scoring, he becomes a liability for us. LOL @ drug money spends like a paycheck too. Call Chill "The Smowman" from now on then, since his points are like herion.

Quote: JJ wants Woody gone... JJ is also a professional. Whether he wants Woody gone or not, he's still going to play to win. I know some people may want to believe that the players are laying down on Woody, but it doesn't make sense, if you really think about it. Smoove, Salim and Chill are all in contract years. It is in their own best interest to make themselves look as good as possible, not play poorly. The rookies don't know any better, so they'll play hard regardless. And Marvin, with all of the comments he sees and hears about Chris Paul, surely he doesn't want his poor play to validate people's negative feelings about him. The reality of the last 2 months is, yes, we've given away about 4 - 5 games that we should've won. But if you really look at things, we just lost to a bunch of playoff caliber teams who were simply better than we are. Blame whomever you want for those losses.

He leads by example Jack. And he's just a naturally quiet person. As long as he continues to lead by example, I have no problem with his verbal leadership. I much rather have a hard-working guy with a good wolrk ethic, than a vocal leader that doesn't put in the necessary work he should.

A lot of you don't like 82games.com because of all of the stats they give. Some of you even go so far as to suggest that "stats lie". And that is the case sometimes. But we're far enough into the season now, to really see if some of those stats listed on 82games.com are really relevant. On their homepage, they have a new section on there updating player sorted stats. They pretty much take the top 200 guys in the league according to minutes played, and sort how they stack up in a variety of offensive and defensive categories. For us, that list includes JJ, Smith, Marvin, Horford, Chill, and the PG formely known as AJ. They like to measure things "per 100 possessions", so to try to give equal weight to the stats across the board. They also break things down by percentages, when it comes to shooting and rebounding. Basically what you see here, is a measurement of a team's performance on a game in each category, while he's on the floor. Here are some of the highlights of what you see in each category, as it relates to the Hawks. MINUTES PLAYED - JJ is #2 in the league, in % minutes played for his team, at 84%. Only Iverson has played more of his team's minutes ( 87% ). So if he isn't rah-rah all the time, this might be the reason. - JJ, Smith, and Marvin have each played at least 70% of the Hawk's minutes. The only othet trio in the league that can make that claim, are Dwight, Rashard, and Hedo in Orlando, who have each played at least 78% of Orlando's minutes This kind of gives credence to the fatigue argument. NET POINTS ON OFFENSE AND DEFENSE ( per 100 possessions ) - Only JJ and Chill give the Hawks a positive offensive net point total when they're on the floor. This just means that when they're in the game, the Hawks as a team tend to score more, compared to when they're out. - At -6.9, Smoove is #3 in the league in defensve net points. When he's on the floor, our opponent tends to score a lot less, than when he's out. Nothing surprising there. At #2 though, is AJ at -7.5 !! Now this could have to do with the pace of the game when AJ was in. But while AJ had trouble guarding quick PGs, he did understand how to switch and rotate within the defense. He was a good team defender. - When it comes to the overall net point impact for the Hawks, JJ at +5.2 and Smoove at +2.2, are the only Hawks that have a positive effect on a game when in, compared to when they are out. Those net numbers are pretty low, compared to the players on more successful teams. SHOOTING - The Hawks are 4.3% better eFG shooting team with JJ in the game than with him out. No surprise there, seeing that JJ is the guy that will also take 3's. But when Chill is in the game, we're shooting -2.2% less eFG as a team when he's in, compared to when he's out. To Chill's defense, he has played with the other bench guys a lot. But it also says something about his offensive game as well. Even with his high FG%, it doesn't have a big impact on a game as a whole for the Hawks, because he'll go through games where he doesn't shoot much at all. His ability to get to the FT line is a factor in this as well. REBOUNDING ( per 100 possessions ) - At a +5.0, Chill is #5 in the league in increased offensive rebound % for the Hawks, while he's in the game. No other Hawk posts a positive number in this category. This means that the Hawks are a better offensive rebounding team when he's in, than out. Chill's impact on the game, is on the offensive boards and put backs. Or "cherry picking", as Ex would say. No surprise there. - Some disturbing numbers in this category, are the -3.8 that Smith has, and the horrible -5.8 that Marvin posts. With us being a jumpshooting team, Marvin's negative number is extremely troubing. It shows his lack of inactivity on the offensive boards, especially if one of the guards or Smoove takes an outside shot. The same could be said for Smoove, if a guard or Marvin shoots a jumper. Marvin's number compares with some PG's though, and that's unacceptable. - Smith is #10 in the league in defensive rebound % when in the game, at +4.3. One of the reasons why you don't see Horford in these rebounding categories, is that Horford's play isn't affected by who is in the game with him. He's consitent regardless. Smith, I would guess, sees his rebounding numbers increase, when he has to play center or when Horford goes out of a game. That's why the Hawks Dreb% when he's in the game is higher, than when he's out. - Conversely, the Hawks Dreb% is -3.7 lower when Chill plays. If Marvin's inactivity on the offensive board has to be noted, then you have to do the same for Chill on the defensive boards. FREE THROWS - The Hawks FT attempts go up +6.6 ( per 100 possessions ) with Chill in the game. That's #9 in the league. With the way he plays, you have to give him credit for the increased number of FTAs when he's in. - Their FTAs go down -6.4 ( per 100 possessions ), with Horford in the game. 2 factors here. His offensive game isn't polished enough to draw fouls in the post. And he's usually playing with JJ, Marvin, or a jumpshooting PG, that don't get to the line nearly as much. TURNOVERS ( per 100 possessions ) - No surprise that the Hawks turn the ball over +1.4 more with Smith in the game. What might be a surprise is that the Hawks turn the ball over -1.6 less with JJ in the game. The amount of minutes that JJ plays, may have somthing to do with this. - To Smith's credit, the Hawks force +1.9 more turnovers with him in the game. We all know that the kid can make a bad play one minute, and his presence force a bad play by the opponent on the other end. Horford is at +1.7. LOL . . our former PG, AJ, was at +2.0, once again giving evidence that he may have been a solid team defender, as opposed to a solid individual defender. Chill's -1.8 is a troubling number, because we all know that he sometimes gets out of control and will lose the ball. * * * * * * These numbers don't like folks. They almost perfectly show the strengths and weaknesses of our team. Unfortunately, we have more weaknesses than strengths. By the way, go look at Bibby's individual numbers while with us. ( look at the 5-man units in his section ) His inability to stay with people because of his nagging injuries, and his poor awareness defensively, may be the single biggest reason why we're worse than ever on defense. Woody won't make this adjustment, but as long as Acie is out, you Mario West fans may have a case. Mario probably shouldn't come in for JJ, but maybe for Marvin or Bibby for short stretches, especially in games where perimeter defense will be a high priority . . like tonight. I'm still an advocate of Law starting when he comes back, and send Bibby to the bench to assume Lue's old role as a high volume scorer off the bench. Bibby may or may not need to be playing over 30 minutes a game though.

Quote: We are the most talented young team in the Eastern conference. 2nd most talented in the league. The idea that this roster can't win a title is false. Our head coach makes it seem that way by minimizing our talent. Al Horford has top 10 C potential Josh Smith has top 10 PF potential Marvin Williams can be a top 10-15 SF Joe Johnson can be a top 10 SG That's a helluva lot more talent than people are acknowleding LOL . . this is exactly what Walter is talking about. Horford is closer to being a top 10 C, than Smoove is at being a top 10 PF. Marvin may not even be a top 20 SF at this point, because there are a few backup SFs who are better than Marvin. Only JJ is a top 10 SG, on some nights. The problem Bus, is that a team's top 2 players are usually very good offensive players. Only JJ can be considered to be a very good offensive player ( at times ). Smoove is closer to being a defensive star. Horford is all-around solid, but neither great offensively or defensively. Marvin is the same way. If Smoove is out of the game, the defense falls off tremendously. The same goes for JJ and the offense.

DeShawn's defensive abilities would be a godsend for this team. Bringing him off the bench instead of Chill, would be an upgrade because he can defend most 2s and 3s and can knock down the 3 pointer on occasion. Caron and Antwan is a nice duo though. Better than any duo we can put on the floor.