TheNorthCydeRises

Chill is a scrapper. Every team needs a scrapper on their squad. But if you can criticize Chill for not grabbing more defensive boards, you can say the same thing about Marvin, and especially Smoove, on the offensive boards. Both of those guys should be better in that department, if you ask me. Smoove's athleticism should see him grabbing as high as 4 - 5 offensive boards a game, while Marvin's body type should have him getting to more offensive rebounds as well. But like I said, it's a shame that fans can't appreciate what both guys bring to the table.

You can use 82games.com to kind of prove your point. When you go to Chill, and click on Player Stats, you'll see the different breakdown in the shooting numbers. When you look at the "shot clock usage" section, you'll see that Chill takes 57% of his shots within 10 seconds of the shot clock being elasped. In other words, he's shooting 57% of the time, before the shot clock gets to 14 seconds. I'll bet money that Chill's 57% is the highest percentage in the league, of the guys wo get playing time every game. That's an absolute ridiculous number. The only guys that I could think of that even would come close to that number, are the guys on Phoenix ( including when Marion was there ) ans Golden St. Of that group, Monta Ellis came closest to Chill, with 52% of his shots coming before 14 seconds are gone off the shot clock. Guys like Baron, Marion, and Barbosa were in the high 40% range. We used to have a guy on our high school team that we nicknamed "Bill Hall". Bill Hall was ( and still is ) a weatherman on one of the local stations in Nashville. Whenever it snowed, that station had what it called the "Snowbird Report" to announce the middle Tennessee counties that were closed for school. So because the guy used to always leak out after a shot, just so he could dunk it if he received a quick outlet pass. And because another name for that is "snowbirdng", we used to call him Bill Hall. Like Chill, he'd break his neck to get offensive rebounds, but give half of that effort on the defensive boards. LOL . . he was kind of weak defensively too. That guy was by far the best athlete on the team though, and the QB of the football team.

Quote: We all know that Chillz have limitations. He's no superstar... But he definitely brings more to the party than the stats say... So does Marvin. It's too bad that most Hawk fans can't appreciate both guys and what they bring to the table.

Quote: It is being reported that the Kings have bought out Tyronne Lue. I don't know if there has to be a 30 day rule, but I think that it would be a good move to bring him back. He could play 10-15 minutes and it keeps us from having to run Childress at the point. He also could be an insurance policy in case Law and Bibby get injured. Wow JB. You do know what you're suggesting means, right? It means that the Salim Stoudamire era in ATL is offically over. There's no reason to even play Salim, if Lue comes back. So I take it that you've officially given up on Salim?

Quote: Interesting changes in this version of the story. he notes that of the two sources one was inside the organization and one was outside. also talks about the response to the early online version and Gearon's denial. Can't wait to see Sekou's next blog entry. Like I said yesterday . . . Belkin = inside source Mullin = outside source What 2 guys would want to see the ASG look bad, more than those 2?

Quote: For the record, and I think that I speak for all my fellow fans, the people that hope we miss the playoffs still cheer for us to win every game we play. It's kind of like betting against your own team scenario... You cheer for them to win the game (or make the playoffs in this case), but if they loose you've still won something (Woodson getting fired) This is idiotic fan thinking at its finest. The events of the past 24 hours should CLEARLY show you that the main problem here, is the ASG itself. Woody and BK are only symptoms of the major disease crippling this franchise, which is the ASG. So if they won't fire Woody now, and BK doesn't have the absolute power to fire him, who do you think this ownership group will bring in? A lot of you think a coaching change, just for the sake of change, will have us better off. Well look at all of the struggling teams that have given power to one of their assistants over the years. Almost all of those guys fail to get the ship back on track. Just like with the PG situation, if they're going to make a coaching change, then do it RIGHT. Go out and get a guy that you know can coach, or just interview a lot of guys at the end of the year, and make your decision then. This reminds me of Bear fans complaining about Rex Grossman. All of them wanted Rex on the bench because he'd flat out lose games. When coach Lovie Smith finally makes the change, Bear fans were delighted to see Brian Gresie take control. LOL . . that happiness lasted for all of 2 weeks. Then he started to do he same ish that Rex was doing, with untimely INTs. Their situation is not going to change, until they get a legit signal caller running the show. Ish, you could use that same analogy with the Falcons. All those people that wanted Vick gone, even before the dogfighting stuff came out, look at the Falcons now. Maybe things would be different if they kept Schaub, but look what they ended up with . . Joey Harrington. Even Leftwich couldn't get the job done. As for the Hawks, people have no idea if Drew is an upgrade over Woody or not. He's just the simple cheap cosmetic replacement at this time. If they want to give him a chance, then fine . . give him a chance. But don't act like our situation will immeadiately be better with Woody gone, and BK and the ASG still here.

Quote: I know I've pretty much said this in responses on other threads...but let me consolidate my opinion. Figuring that this was no accident: Woody: It makes no sense that Woody would want something like this out there for public consumption just a week or so after he got a new PG. The Hawks with Bibby haven't proven anything yet. One win at home isn't enough to blow your own horn. Plus, how would he know that BK wanted him fired three times (unless he has an owner feeding him info). Even if he did he would surely wait until things were more in his favor to go against BK. Players: I'm sure they have +Woody and - Woody factions, but could they really be in the know enough to have this kind of information? Unlikely. The only thing I could think of would be a guy like Shelden - who BK could have told that he was trying to get rid of Woody (3-times) to get him out of the "doghouse". Maybe Shelden would say something - but in this manner? He would logically say something to the SAc. press about how happy he was to get away from Woody - not about firing attempts. ?? not a likely scenario. ASG: Last thing they want is an article like this when they have just gotten a new star PG who will hopefully turn things around and give them a shot at the playoffs. Owners never - EVER - leak dirty laundry...even Belkin wouldn't do that. BK: The only logical choice. He was likely forced into the Bibby trade because Woody had finally gotten the ASG's ear and they became fed up with BK's B.S. So this is a "get back at you" move by BK. The reason Woody wouldn't do it now is the same reason BK would. Woody wouldn't say anything now because it's too early and he doesn't have enough wins with Bibby to show much. BK - on the other hand - would do it now for the exact same reason. He might see the handwriting on the wall. This team starts winning (at least at home) with a PG that he fought against getting and he (as I mentioned before) is a "dead man walking" with the owners - who finally took Woody's side. By the way - Oswald didn't kill JFK by himself.

Quote: Sekou says there were two sources. Who could know that info besides coaches or owners? Maybe Nique? I'll vote Belkin and Mullins. I wonder when was the first time BK recommended that Woody be fired?

Quote: or what you said, northcyde- another possibility. If Sekou had 2 sources, there go your 2 sources right there.

. . . unless he's a former member of the ASG that got fired about a month ago. Woody is the lead headline on hoopshype.com by the way.

Quote: I think the percentages would also improve if we had a decent scoring in the post. Then the guys wouldn't have to rush shots at try and make every shot while a hand is in front of them. Emeka would be a good player to have on the team. So are you saying that we go after Emeka, but let Smoove go?

Quote: Are we in agreement that almost any coach other than Woody, is a "real" coach? I definitely don't agree with that. If the Hawks change coaches, they either need to get a guy who has won in the past ( Brown, Fratello, etc ), or a guy who is a great teacher of X's and O's. It's like I've always said. Put a Lawrence Frank or an Eddie Jordan as our head man, and we're no better off. Pat Riley has Dwyane Wade, and lost 27 out of his last 29 games. They're even 1 - 5 with the Marion / Wade combo ( soon to be 1 - 6 after tonight's loss @ the Lakers ) I guess Riley is the worst coach in the league now? Just a mere coaching change may or may not improve our situation. You, as well as everyone else, know that we need upgrades across the board. We still don't have a legit low post scorer. Or a big man who can defend. Or a dependable bench. We finally got a PG, so we'll see how that works out in the long run as the season progresses. Quote: The only problem with that is the ownership. Would these guys actually let the contract run out on a guy who improved his record every year, culminating in a playoff appearance? I don't have any indication that they are smart enough to let him go. That would mean we would have to start the next year in the dumpster to even think about dumping Woody. That's another year gone. Also, what about Smoove? No way he stays if Woody does, no matter the money, imo. I've never heard of one NBA player that has turned down a mega-buck deal, just because they don't like the coach. I'm sure you'd even play for Woody for 55 - 70 million dollars over the next 5 years. When Smoove gets that money, and if he keeps developing, he'll actually have the power to complain enough to get Woody out of here. JJ has that power now, but is too much of a team guy to do something like that. If the Hawks win 36 games, make the playoffs, but still lose in the first round, Woody is definitely fired, unless the Hawks can't find a decent named coach to replace him. What we should worry more about, is if the Hawks are willing to just settle for Woody, in order to keep from paying a big named coach much more money. If that's the case, it's not going to matter what we do anyway. The ASG will always settle for a cheap option, whether it's Woody, or some other assistant somewhere that they can hire on the cheap, and sell to the fan base. Contrary to popular belief, Memphis is NOT better off with Ivaroni, than they were with Fratello. The same goes with Chicago and their firing of Skiles. Quote: And what confidence does an intelligent human gain from making the playoffs when they don't deserve it. I don't want players so dumb that they don't even realize they're not working or thinking hard enough, just because they made the playoffs in the East. A very strong push at the end of the season could be big for the players but idling in just won't do it. Winning record or bust, imo. It is not the fault of the Hawks that the East is so weak this year. So if they get in, they deserve it. What's important, is for our young guys like Smith, Law, Horford, Marvin, and Chill, to get a taste of what it is like to be in the playoffs. Even if our chances are slim to none of actually winning the series, they can take that experience and use it as motivation for the 08 - 09 season. That really isn't hard to understand at all is it?

Quote: Like I said, it's laughable that people are calling a 13/5 player that shoots 58% a joke and cream in their pants when a bum like Mario West makes a layup or provides energy for 3 or 4 minutes. LMAOOOO !!! Funniest quote of 2008 so far. And so true too.

I just don't understand why people think that we don't need BOTH of these guys? Both guys bring different skill sets that help this team out. It would be nice to see Marvin make 50% of his wide open jumpers, along with Chill bringing his "slash and burn" type game off the bench, in every game. I wonder what our record is, when both Chill and Marvin score 15+ points in a game? Chill IS our bench right now. To lose him means that Mario, Salim, and Jeremy would have to step up on a nightly basis. To lose Marvin, means that we lose a guy big enough to play the 4. And when his shot is falling, like it was early in the year, he'll be a hell of a luxury to have with Bibby on the team now. We need BOTH Chill and Marvin.

Quote: It boggles my mind on this thread that people are actually saying that our success is by virtue of the good job we do running a halfcourt offense. We are terrible in the halfcourt. Just aweful. I don't know where to go in a conversation if people think we are actually a good halfcourt team. I hope we improve in this but Hawks halfcourt offense is really ugly and ineffective this year. That is NOT what I said. I just make the point that in the vast majority of the games we've WON this year, our halfcourt offense was one of the reasons why we did win, along with our defense. Just go back and re-watch the games. When we were winning games earlier in the season, the defense was tough, we were getting to the line A LOT ( especially Smoove ), we kept people off the offensive boards, and people like JJ or Marvin were knocking down shots within the halfcourt offense to ensure victory. ( Even AJ was knocking down 3's within the halfcourt offense during that 5 game win streak ) When we lost, the shots wouldn't fall, we didn't get to the line much, the defense would let us down during critical stretches, and we usually got killed on the boards. I also made the point that if this team DOES run, I want them to run right. "Running right" means that you get the ball to your PG as much as you can, and you let him be the decision maker. Not to our athletic forwards whose decision making is questionable at best. Bibby did a great job in controlling the action on the offensive end, especially in that 1st half. He controlled the Hawks exactly how they should be controlled. It's nice having a PG here that actually knows how to properly run the position. That was my biggest gripe about AJ.

Quote: Quote: Wrong. We have never won with good half court execution. We have gotten strong production from running and then desperately held on while the other team makes a run and our half court exectution grinds to a halt. This is 100% correct. If we were better in the half court set you would expect us to win some games that we were behind in after the half or the 3rd quarter was completed, when the game slows down considerably because the end approaches and the opposition slows it down themselves making every possession "more valuable". We are 5 and 25 if down after the 3rd quarter and 7-24 when down at the half. No team has a good record in these situations but this ain't good. W It's actually 100% wrong. This is exactly the reason why i told all of you who were able to do it, to RECORD THESE GAMES. When you rewatch these games . . rewind particular segments of it . . and actually comprehend what you're watching, you can see what works, and what doesn't work. When you rewatch games, you'll see how many WIDE OPEN jumpers we miss, and how many lay-ups in traffic we blow. Modt of the blown lay-ups are a result of guys just trying to do too much by forcing the issue. But in the games the Hawks have won this year, it's been either because of good execution in the halfcourt ( i.e. - people were making their jumpers and lay-ups ), or great defense on the other end, or a combination of both. When JJ has big scoring games, it's from him making his shots in the halfcourt offense. The same goes for Marvin. And I wonder what the correlation is between Marvin shooting poorly, and our struggles the past 15 or so games? And to be honest, when Smoove has his big scoring games, it's usually from him scoring by beating his man off the dribble within the halfcourt offense. It this wasn't the case, and Smoove scored the majority of his points while we're running, we could afford to put him at SF for long stretches at a time. The only guy that truly benefits from playing fast, is Chill. But even he is out of control at times. When you look at the Spurs game, once again we missed a TON of wide open shots. We played well enough defensively to really extend that lead in the 1st half, but missed too many wide open shots, and made things a lot worse with the flat out dumb turnovers in the 2nd half. Whether you play fast or slow, you have to make wide open shots. If for them to play more under control, means they have to slow ir down, or milk the clock like they did in the 4th quarter of the Golden St game, then that's what they just have to do.

Quote: That statement completely ignores reality. The reality is that the Hawks have been successful when they run. their problems have been in the half court set. That's REALITY? Ummm . . what is our winning percentage since Jan 1st? Your problem is that you fail to realize tht our fast break points come from turning people over, or creating transition opportnities off missed shots. As I said, I don't mind at all for the Hawks to run when those opportunities arise. That's why I say that the Hawks are built to DEFEND, not to RUN. What I've been totally against, is FORCING the run. That's what you and a lot of others want to do. We are nowhere near a good enough team to force the run. And I hate to break this to you and the rest of Hawksquawk, but go back and look at the games we've WON this season. In those games, the Hawks are either playing tremendous defense, or they're executing in the halfcourt. When we play defense, we have a pretty good shot at winning, IF we play under control. This was even evident in the Golden St game. We defended and rebounded well against G-State until that 3rd quarter. Part of the reason why they scored 39 points that quarter, was because we were playing at their pace. We still scored, but playing at their pace allowed them to get back into the game when we missed shots or turned the ball over. So for the 4th quarter, the Hawks made it a point to hunker down defensively, slow the game down by playing inside out, and limit the amount of shot opportunities that the Warriors could get by slowing them down. The result was us regaining control of the game. Quote: the Hawks are probably the worst half court team (offensively) in the league. When you say you don't want to run you are saying you want to play into our weakness. I don't want to force the run by constantly trying to play fast. Playing fast hasn't translated into victories. And our fast brea points come off of forcing turnovers, especially open court turnovers. The decline in fast break points recently, almost directly correlates to the lack of defense or created turnovers via blocks and steals. Quote: Sure guys make some mistakes on the break but those mistakes pale in comparison to the mistakes they make in the half court set. The reason obviously is that in the half court the defense is set while on the fast break they aren't. Here lately the Hawks haven't been able to run. They have only 1 hobbled pg instead of 3 healthy ones. They have been forced into a half court game and the result has been a turnover festival. The idea that the solution is to slow it down further is just nuts. Mistakes on the break can quickly go back the other way as easy fast break points. Worst, it takes away a potential possession. The senseless turnovers everywhere on the court, need to stop. What's nuts, is you believing that our PGs have been the keys to us running in the first place. Smoove and Chill routinely have the ball once the fast break starts. If what you say were true, a guy like Acie would be routinely posting 5 - 6 assists a game. But oftentimes, Acie may have to trail a break or track down the ball, because one of our forwards are racing into the frontcourt with the ball, with nowhere to go. Trace is right. The Hawks just try to do too much, whether it be in the halfcourt or when they try to run. I love Smoove's effort, but because he tries so hard, he's prone to make a plethora of mistakes. The same goes with JJ and Chill. These guys just need to slow down, and let the game come to them, so that they can make better decisons. Run ONLY when the opportunity presents itself. Most important, play defense and rebound the ball on a nightly basis.

Quote: in the half court AND on the break. For this team to be successful, we need to think defense first and protect the ball on offense. I've said this from Day 1. You're exactly right Trace. Quote: That said, you CAN run and protect the ball at the same time, it just means that you make high percentage plays rather than spectacular plays. Making the high percentage pass might result in getting fouled and going to the line versus getting an easy layup or dunk but in the long run, we will come out ahead. Our problem, is that the guys who should be finishing plays off the break ( Chill, Smoove, etc ) are routinely the main ball handlers on the break. Smith almost absolutely refuses to get the ball to a guard. He's much rather start and finish the play himself with a score or a pass, than just playing the role of a finisher. And Chill is just out of control at times, even trying to go 1 on 2 ( like he did twice in the Golden St game ). Quote: I think we need to run off missed shots and TOs, but we are not even CLOSE to being ready to run off made baskets. Teams that can run off made baskets generally take care of the ball fairly well and we have not reached that point yet. If we have to play in the half court, so be it. We all know that Woody's half court offense sucks but really, it won't matter as much with Bibby and JJ on the floor because teams won't be able to zone us NEARLY as easily anymore. Let Bibby do what he was brought here to do - run the team. I agree totally. And I've said that since the start of the season. If Bibby or Acie don't have the ball, I want no part of this team trying to run after a made basket. If they play defense and rebound the ball, I'm all for this team running IF they still try to get the ball to Bibby and Acie FIRST. This team is built to defend, not to run. Play some damn defense, and THEN they can start to run. And the only bright spot since the arrival of Bibby, is the 3 point shooting. Even though Bibby has been wildly inconsistent, JJ hasn't. He's shooting right around 50% from 3 sincle Bibby arrived. And one more thing. In the past 5 games, JJ has taken 14 or less shots in 4 of those games. We lost all 4. In the one game he took 22 shots, we won. This team still very much lives and dies on how JJ plays. At this point, I still want the ball moved around on offense, but I also want JJ taking 20+ shots. Find him in the halfcourt or on the break. But find him.

Quote: So what you are saying is that the GM has done a pretty bad job putting together this team? EDS, this entire team is f'd up at his point. From the players, to the coach, to the GM, to the ownership. To blame it on one single entity, and think that ish will change, is kind of being naive.

Quote: I guarantee better 3rd quarter performance if we bring in a real coach. Woody isn't to blame for everything but a coach should be able to make effective adjustments at half-time and should be able to inspire effort out of the gate. If we had Phil Jackson in the lockerroom, you would see a world of difference in the 3rd quarter from what we gotten this year, IMO. The players bear responsibility for what they do on the floor but they sure aren't getting a lot of help being put in position to succeed in many, many instances, IMO. You guarantee it? How? I love JJ, but JJ makes some of the laziest passes I've ever seen. Smoove tries to make Magic Johnson type passes. Marvin can't dribble or hold onto the ball in traffic. I mean, how does a coach correct those types of things on the professional level? What about Salim? Usually, if a player comes into the league a fundamentally sound player, he's going to stay that way. I don't know of too many examples where undisciplined players, became good to great players down the road that play smart. Ricky Davis immeadiately come to mind. Talent wise, he has it. BBIQ wise, he's never gotten it. This is the same argument that we're having with ZaZa these days. The only option we have, is to literally take the decision making away from some of these players. Maybe a healthy Acie can do that. But even things like blocking out for rebounds seem to go by the wayside with this team. Horford consistently does it, which is why he usually leads us in rebounds. The other guys do it every once in a while. You know Woody stresses rebounding and defense, so you know he stays on them on these issues. Woody needs to be fired, if for anything, to illustrate that these players need to take accountability. I'm not against firing Woody at all though. I just think it probably won't solve the problem.

Coach, these are professional players. If they need some sort of rah-rah speech with a 7 point lead going into the 3rd quarter, then I truly don't know what to say about them. There are so many problems with this team, especially when they go on the road, it isn't even funny. You talk about 3rd quarter adjustments? - JJ and Bibby had consecutive turnovers to begin the quarter. - Then they missed their first 4 shots - Then JJ and Bibby had consecutive turnovers AGAIN - By the time Smoove finally hits a little bunny shot, the game is tied at 39. - We didn't hit a shot outside of 5 feet THE ENTIRE QUARTER and were 3 - 17 overall in the quarter. I mean, seriously. What would you have done differently to start the 3rd, as far as a lineup? It wasn't like Chill was playing like anything, so why even take the time to bench Marvin? Unless you bench Marvin for ZaZa, and move Smoove to SF, which is a disaster in itself. So do you bench Smoove in favor of ZaZa? I say that, because Horford did have a pretty good first half, so the logical person would be to bench Smoove, right? I'm sure people would've had a fit if Smoove didn't start in the 2nd half. The problem with this fan base, is that most people think the answers are so simple. You guys should know better. Most of us either watch or follow very closely what this team does on a nightly basis. This team has found every way possible to lose a game this year, from bad coaching moves/plays/decisions, to players just playing like garbage after playing great the quarter or half before. We get a legit PG who is also a shooter, but now we turn the ball over like a 9 year old YMCA team? Everybody's favorite bench players finally get some time, yet, they can't hit or do ish when they get in a game? Go to Marvin more . . when he's only shooting 36% FG and has failed to score in double figures in 5 games this month . . after having only ONE sub 10-point game the entire year before February? His eFG on his jumper has now fallen below 40%. So seriously man, what would you have done differently, that would've prevented the cold shooting and the dumb turnovers that caused them to rapidly lose the lead last night?

I didn't jinx ish. These players jinxed it themselves with those 22 turnovers.

Quote: Yes and we lose another one. Woody waited till they outscore us 13-2 to call a TO. He should of called a TO when we commited those 2 TO early in the qtr. Well this at least gives people a reason to blame Woody. (( bleep )) that. These players do the same stupid ish game in, and game out. Woody shouldn't have to coach a game, like he's coaching a bunch of college freshmen and sophmores that don't know what to do.. The players have to play disciplined basketball, not throw the ball all over the place, just because they want to play fast. What a depressing quarter. It's like the Spurs said . . "OK . . playtime with you mo-fos are over." But go ahead and place all of the blame on Woody. It's what you guys do best anyway.

It don't sound like a victory, but to be able to win 2 of these 5 road games, means that our objective has been achieved. As always, it doesn't matter which games you win, just as long as you win. These guys aren't the least bit afraid of the Spurs. Don't be shocked if they win tonight.

Because some you blame every single little thing on Woody. Some of you do these exact same thins in regard to whatever player you don't like on the team. If that particular player played well, you'd either be silent, or find something that he did do wrong, and complain about that. ( ala Marvin with his 14 rebound effort against G-State, yet, people were still dogging the guy out because of the poor shooting night. ) Woody could smile tomorrow, and if it rained, you'd blame that on Woody. Then if he didn't smile on Tuesday, you same guys would be like . . "WTF WOODY? You know that we're in a drought here in Georgia. Why didn't you keep smiling? I HATE YOU!!!!"