TheNorthCydeRises

He just needs to vent a little. He's been convinced that BK would never make a move like this. Hmmmm . . . TNT says that a 2nd round pick is added to the deal too. So i guess we'll have absolutey no draft picks next year. Interestng. Magic just reinterated kind of what Walter said though, about bringing in a named player. The TNT guys love the trade.

I figured this poll might look like this. Interesting.

Quote: Hey, guys. It's another one of my NBA 2k8 trade ideas again, and I'm wondering if you guys can help me out by thinking of a blockbuster trade if I want to get rid of these players, you can choose as many/as least as you can: -Marvin Williams -Josh Childress -Anthony Johnson -Speedy Claxton -Tyronn Lue -Salim Stoudemire/Shelden Any ideas on how to improve this team? I didn't start the Association yet, but I'm just thinking of how I should trade these players away first because I don't like playing with them. Marvin never makes shots, Childress is too slow, AJ is too slow/no jump shot, Speedy and Tyronn are decent, but they seem like good trade pieces, and Salim/Shelden seem like good trade pieces as well. Remember, this is NBA 2k8. I'm not talking about real life here. I'm just askin for a little advice from a more educated Hawks fan. Thanks. Personally, I think it's more of a challenge to try to win with the current group of Hawks, than to make a trade and make the game easy. I'll tell you how to play with each guy. - Marvin: Use him as a catch-and-shoot guy. As soon as you pass him the ball, immeadiately take your jumper, even if he's moving. Never try to create a jumper with a man on Marvin. - Chill: Take everything to the hole. If you get to the rim, he'll normally dunk it. If he's in the corner for the 3, take it and see if he knocks the shot down. - AJ: You shouldn't be playing him at all, but if you do, use him the same way you'd use Marvin. He's a catch-and-shoot guy. - Salim: If you find him in transition, he can and will knock down the open 3. If he hits 2 in a row, keep going to him. If he misses 2 in a row, go away from him. It's almost like the game knows that he's streaky. - Speedy: If you get in the lane, he'll occasionaly hit the short jumper. Otherwise, take everything to the hole. - Lue: Lue has a pretty good mid-range shot. He'll make that shot often. Don't get 3-happy with Lue. - Shelden: Offensive rebound putbacks with him. Use JJ or Law to set him up for dunks. Challenge yourself man. Put the game on the hardest level, and see if you can win with this year's Hawks. LOL . . see exactly what Woody has to put up with.

Quote: lol I agree about Cassell. Bibby is in his prime...even if injuries have plagued it. Sam can still produce when healthy but he's way past it and DOESN'T shoot a great 3 Bibby's nowhere near in his prime. He shot the ball HORRIBLY last year. This year, he's barely shooting 40% while Cassell shoots in the mid 40s. Even in his old age, Cassell is one of the smartest players in the league, and knows how to play PG. Plus he'd be a great guy for Acie to learn from. Cassell's leadership qualities with this young team, would be very valuble. I'd start Acie, and bring Cassell off the bench, like the Clips did when Livingston was healthy. When you need scoring, or that extra shooter at the end of games, Cassell would be in. Bibby may shoot a better 3 ball, but he doesn't play the positon much better than Cassell does.

Personally, give me Sam Cassell over Bibby, but I won't be disapponted in acquiring Bibby . . I hope. Obtaining a Cassell and maybe a guy like Artest, would be a serious talent upgrade. But like I said, I'll believe this ish when I see it.

Quote: thats a lot of hypotheticals They're hypotheticals that could easily happen though. - while we're all pizzed, we're right there to make the playoffs. A mere 3 game win streak puts us right back in 7th, and knocking on the door for 6th. - if we get in, I could easily see us winning a game or even 2 games at home. I definitely see the Hawks winning a game 3 ( with the atmosphere at Philips being ridiculous ). And if that happened, who knows how game 4 would turn out. But Boston or Detroit would probably close us out in game 6. - and if that happened, I could see the ASG extending Woody for another 3 years, just because he might be cheaper to extend, than hiring another coach that is a known name.

Does the want for Woody being fired, trump the desire to make the playoffs, be competitive, but still get bounced by Detroit or Boston in 6 games? Enquiring minds want to know.

Now let's see what you guys TRULY think about our situation, if the Bibby deal goes down.

Quote: Quote: ...there appears to be a serious roster shake up on the horizon. And I mean SERIOUS! It sounds to me that we are about to move at least one of our starters. AJ definitely has to be gone. Hopefully he's the starter that is gone. LOL . . I still see Lue here though, which isn't good. I can see Speedy included in the deal IF he's verbally agreed to retire, right after the trade is announced. I think that's the only way the ASG pulls the trigger on a deal like this for a contract like that. Worse case scenario would be to make the deal for Bibby, but trade Acie, and somehow keep the other 2 PGs. Like someone has pointed out, that's a hell of an expiring contract for next season. We could use Bibby in 2009 in a wide variety of ways, if things unfortunately don't work out with him. I'll believe this ish when I see it though. This may be a smokescreen to give the illusion that they at least tried to do something, but couldn't get it done.

Quote: And all of that with AJ playing 65% of the minutes with the Big 4, compared to 44% for Acie with the Big 4. That should read: "And all of that with AJ playing 65% of HIS minutes with the Big 4, compared to 44% of Acie's minutes playing alongside the Big 4."

That's why I didn't rely on one particular area when givng my opinion on this. The thing that stood out to me the most, were the shooting and defensive FG numbers when Acie plays with JJ, Smoove, Marvin and Horford. And to illustrate how people can use stats to skew or prove a point, it is correct that overall, AJ's +/- numbers are superior to Acie's. The difference, is that AJ has only mustered a +10 playing with our Big 4 . . while Acie is +26 playing with them. And he did that in almost 400 less minutes of PT with them. And all of that with AJ playing 65% of the minutes with the Big 4, compared to 44% for Acie with the Big 4. It's all moot anyway. I think we all know that Woody is going to keep AJ in that starting lineup, and play Lue down the stretch . . while Acie tries to fit in the middle. AJ and Lue aren't going to lead us anywhere. The mandate needs to come down from the top. Start Acie, let him play 30+ minutes, and let him finish the game at the point.

Gibson is one of his best friends. You act like Lebron has a direct line to the TV producer, telling him that he needs more TV time. If that were Smoove cheerng on Horford like that, you would never say that. Stop being jealous of Lebron

LOL @ Diesel. I know Candace is at least 21. She may be 22. Shelden can't be any older than 25. So if he met her when she was 17 or 18, he was no older than 20 or 21. LOL . . Shelden is not Jerry Lee Lewis, marrying some 13 year old.

You're wrong in trying to justify playing AJ over Acie, just because AJ can knock down a few open shots. In reality, it's the overall impact of each guy on the floor on both ends, that you should be looking at. AJ has no chance in slowing down a quick PG. And if he's playing that same kind of PG, his only chance at scoring is making a jumper. He's so limited with what he can and can't do, that we might as well see what Law can bring to the table, if he plays 30 minutes a night. And Acie has a lot of 0 - 3 . . 1 - 4 FG type games. Play him 30 minutes, and see if he can end up 4 - 9 or 5 - 12 FG. Lue is such a liability, that it's almost counterproductive to even play the guy. Fug an AJ and a Lue. And why didn't you read my entire post? I read your posts.

Well damn, I see 82games.com has updated the numbers, just as i was typing this. That starting group with AJ is even worse now, while the numbers with Law at the point improved slightly. Man, put this guy in the starting lineup, and play him 30 minutes a night. Has-beens like AJ and Lue aren't taking us anywhere.

Quote: I am well aware of the minutes that he has played and how inconsistent it's been but for a team that desperately needs scoring help Acie was hurting us much more than he was helping because the guy couldn't even hit a layup until a few games ago. Simply playing PG successfully is unfortunately not enough for us because we lack perimeter shooting and so far this year Lue and AJ have been better shooters and scorers than Acie. We will see after the break if Acie gets consistent minutes and if he provides a scoring boost to the team. If he does that and Woody still won't give him minutes then I will be more than happy to call Woody out for it but 1-2 good games of scoring aren't enough to vilify the coach over just yet. Dol, we have agreed about Woody and some of the things he's done this year, but you're just flat out wrong this time. Ex has thrown this link up from time to time, so let me throw it up, and try to explain the numbers. http://82games.com/0708/0708ATL2.HTM What you see here, are the 5-man units that we play the most. Of course, AJ, JJ, Marvin, Smith, and Horford, are the main guys getting time. 82games.com gives 2 groupings of stats. The first group gives strictly the raw numbers across the board. The 2nd grouping, are the percentages in certain key categories ( shooting, rebounding, defensive FG%, etc ) The current starters aren't playing bad. Overall, they outscore their opponent . . barely. They shoot decently and they rebound well. When you look at that won - lost profile, that group is 17 - 17, which is kind of bad for your starting group, especially when you see what other winning teams do. The biggest negative with this group, is that they allow their opponent to shoot almost a 50% eFG from the field. * * * * * * * * * Now, let's look at the #3 group that gets the most time, which consists of our core, but Acie at the point. - they shoot better than our #1 group, at a 55% eFG% - they defend better than our #1 group, holding people to 44% eFG - and they have a won/loss record of 11 - 4 And keep in mind that the majority of Acie's numbers with the starters, came in November. Acie's FG% that month? 48% As a PG, AJ just doesn't play the position like it should be played. He plays it like a 2-guard, who is asked to be the point. He plays it like Derek Fisher plays the point . . and he's nowhere near the talent that Fisher is. From a playmaking standpoint, JJ creates more opportunities than AJ. Very rarely, will AJ get an assist by penetrating into the lane, and either kicking out to JJ or Marvin, or feeding Horford or Smoove for a lay-up. AJ gets assists by staying on the outside, and making a decent interior pass or finding an open shooter. This is one of the reasons why AJ's assist numbers are so erratic. Add the fact that he doesn't look to drive the ball, and it just compounds the situation for him as a scorer. When you look at Acie, it's a totally different story. Almost all of his assists come from him either drawing people to him by using dribble penetration, or by shot faking, to draw people to him, so that he can find an open man. And even though Acie drives and misses lay-ups, he's at least keeping the defense honest by driving. And when you drive and miss a lay-up, it's easier for a team to get that kind of an offensive rebound, than an offensive rebound off of a missed jumper. Dol, AJ is nowhere close to being a good PG in the NBA. The only place he might start, is in Seattle. If Speedy were healthy, this guy would be in a suit, because we'd go with Speedy, Acie, and Lue. AJ isn't going to get any better as a PG, while Law, if Woody plays him with the starters, may rapidly improve. Now is the time to make the switch, for the sake of the team. Ever since AJ had the great game @ Portland, he's pretty much been garbagem As far as Lue goes, he should only play if he's making shots, or if we need his shooting to get back into a game. When you look at the 5-man units that he plays with, almost everyone of those units he's on, are HORRIBLE defensively. The bottom line is that if Woody surrounds Acie with our best players, he's shown that he can be successful. When he comes off the bench, it's almost like Woody wants he and Lue to be the main scorers. Contrary to popular belief, that was NOT Acie's game in college. Acie looked to set up people for most of the game. And when people tried to take those options away, that's when he looked to score. At the end of Hawks games, it may be in our best interest to put the ball in Acie's hands, and see if he can beat his man off the dribble. If he draws the double team, he will find the open shooter. In other words Dol . . . fug an AJ, and fug a Closer. Let Law run the show. He's the only chance we have of improving and being more consistent this season.

This poll should be interesting

Quote: Candace is out of her mind to be with ole Shellhead. Sorry, someone had to say it. You underestimate the power of charm or opportunity. Shelden probably charmed the hell out of her, and made her feel extra special. And if she let him hit it, he probably hit a home run, and that's all it took. Then Shelden said . . "Ish, no way I can do better than this," . . and put the ring on her finger ASAP. A 19 - 20 year old girl isn't turning down a marriage proposal from her boyfriend. No way.

With all of the madness going on here in the past 24 hours, this obviously got overlooked. awwww

I got the white JJ jersey after the Dallas win on opening night. Last Friday, before the Cleveland game, I picked up the blue Horford jersey. I bought both jerseys at the Philips Arena merchandise store. No Josh Smith to be found. Not surprised by that. LOL . they even had some Zaza jerseys. When in doubt, get 2 jerseys . . just get them in different colors. I do the same thing with the Bengals, with the black Rudi Johnson jersey, and the bright orange Chad Johnson jersey.

Quote: If making the playoffs means BK and Woody keep their jobs then i hope the Hawks don't make it. The players deserve better than having to deal with those clowns. Making the playoffs shouldn't mean that. But people also have to look at it this way: If we don't make the playoffs, what does that do to the mindset of JJ and Smoove? This is Year 4 for Smoove and Year 3 for JJ in a Hawks uniform. With the East as weak as it is, and with us not having any major injuries, there's no excuse in making it this year. If we don't make it now, why should any of those guys want to stay here? I could easily see JJ demanding to be traded or even Smoove asking the Hawks not to match any deal this summer, if that happens. Making the playoffs takes precedent over just about everything, even if you're being set up to be a sacrificial lamb. The experience of getting there trumps even Woody or BK being fired. Making the playoffs is the reason why a guy like Andre Miller, probably won't be traded to anybody now. Jersey and the Hawks have continuously left the door wide open for everybody below us. At 21 - 28, we may have to go a minimum of 15 - 18 the rest of the way, to get in. Realistically, we probably have to win 17 - 20 more games to get in. My fear is that if we play horribly on this road trip, that we may not recover enough to win the easier games in March and April. Woody's only chance, is to make that switch at PG, and hope Acie can have a positive impact on the game, while playing 30+ minutes a night. If he still believes in AJ, he should be fired.

The play of the rookies, especially the PG who got pulled with 4 minutes to go.

Quote: Right observation, wrong conclusion. Acie can break the defense down and create for others. AJ can't so all he can do is pass to JJ or Smith and let them create. Lue is just looking for his own shot. Exactly.

You guys were complaining about stupid ish, like 1st half timed substitutions, something that every team in the league does. - Complaining about taking guys out who were "hot" in the 1st quarter. - Complaining about Woody sitting Smoove or Horford after they pick up 2 early fouls and not playing them the rest of the 1st half. ( and look what happened when he DID put him back in early. He picked up that 3rd foul, which gave him only 3 fouls to work with in the 2nd half . . which he quickly used up ) - Complaining about Mario West getting more time than Childress, which is lunacy. - Complaining about Salim and Zaza being in doghouses, when they've been given multiple opportunities to produce. What Woody did last night with Acie and AJ, was on a whole different level. It was a move that made absolutely no sense. Even if we'd won that game, the move made no sense because he was pretty content to not play AJ for over 2/3rds of the game up until that point. Our offense isn't going to look good, because we don't have a PG to properly set people up, or a low post option to go to. Woody will routinely leave in the game the guys who are playing the best in the 4th quarter. I understand him leaving Lue in. But bringing in an ice cold AJ was just mind boggling. Our offense may still struggle with Acie getting minutes, but Woody has to at least try to change things up. The lineup Woody has to work with is definitely not an ideal one for any coach to work with. But he's not even trying to shake things up with the chemistry of the main guys. I mean, even if you have to move Marvin to the bench in favor of starting Chill at the 3, but still give Marvin his minutes, then do that. It's just my opinion that the only chance this team has to improve, is if Acie gets a chance to be the main guy at the point. They're not going to make a trade, so that's our only chance to get better in the short term. If Woody can't even trust Acie when he's playing well, he has to be let go, and the interim coach should be made to play Acie. The W - L record was a mark I had in mind before the season, that would possibly keep us out of the playoff hunt. 8 games under .500 represents the minimum mark the #8 team will be. It's playoffs or bust for Woody. So if we're 8 games under, it forces the Hawks to at least hold that position and play .500 ball. If he can't hold that line, we have to let him go to see if someone else can't least get us there. We're not winning a title this year anyway, so it's important to make the playoffs, just to give the players the experience of being in the playoffs. Even if we make the playoffs, Woody should still probably be let go, unless we actually win our 1st round series against Detroit or Boston. The fans that don't want to make the playoffs, just to get Woody or BK out of here, need to think about the impact not making the playoffs will have on the players . . especially ones like Smoove or JJ. Those 2, more than anybody, need to get in this year. If we don't get in this year, they may see no hope for making it in the future, and may want out. That's the worst case scenario for this franchise.

Quote: Every singe coach in pro sports has absolutely 0 job security regardless of their contract... How would getting a contract extension have changed the way Woody coaches??? If he had had his contract extended and we were playing this way he would still be in the hot seat regardless. That's not true at all. Ivaroni in Memphis definitely has job security. Because of that, it was easy for him and the organization to essentially bench Damon Stoudamire, in favor of developing Conley. The move may have been unfair to Damon, but who the (( bleep )) cares. He's not the future of the Griz at the point, Conley is. Same goes for Acie here. AJ had his chance to be the floor leader here, and he couldn't get it done on a nightly basis. Part of that is Woody's doing, because he loves Lue so much. But this team doesn't deserve to have 2 lame duck PGs running the show. Let the guy who is supposed to be your damn future, try to run it. BK bet not bring in some scrub, and say that he's the solution to our PG situation. A Watson or Ridnour is the last thing this team needs now. Either bring in a starter, or don't do ish at all. The simpliest thing, is to just hand the reigns of the team over to the rookie, and see if he can get it done. Make a commitment to play the kid 30 minutes a night. Acie has the worst +/- numbers on the team, because he's always in there with guys that can't shoot or make lay-ups. Play him with the (( bleepin )) starters.