TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: Marvin was drafted before Redd, Allen, Hughes and JJ became free agents that july. JJ was signed after Marvin was drafted and after we were turned down by Allen. Ex, they officialy became free agents in July, but both Redd and Hughes had verbal agreements to sign with Cleveland and Milwaukee secured before the draft. And it was pretty much known that Ray Allen wasn't coming here before the draft started. They just couldn't officially becme available and sign their deals, until after the draft.

For the record, I thought that both Marvin and Paul would be star players in this league, so I wasn't disappointed in the Marvin selection. But I was definitely on the Bogut bandwagon, seeing that quality big people are very hard to get. At #1, I take him over both Marvin and Paul, strictly because he was the best big man in the draft. But I did say this about Paul ( not here, because I wasn't a Squawker yet, but on the ESPN boards ) "For the Hawks to take Paul, they probably have to think that he is the 2nd coming of Isaiah Thomas. A PG that small has to really be special, in order for a team to select him that high" Turns out, he was the 2nd coming of Isaiah, maybe even better than him, when it was all said and done. Hopefully, Marvin keeps progressing into that hybrid James Worthy/Glen Rice type of player. As for Brandon, that's a pipe dream folks. Hold onto that if you want. Hell, with Paul running the show, I'd hope that we wouldn't even be in the position to select Roy, especially if we had JJ.

It''s the "angry fan syndrome" Bus. They see "what could have been, and get mad as hell". The fan suffering from AFS never takes into consideration the cause and effect of a situation. All they see is . . . "Look what he's doing for them!!! We could've had him here!!!" . . thinking that player would've done the same thing for us, that he's doing for his current team. Cause: BK, looking for a potential star player, allegedly courts Ray Allen, Larry Hughes, and Michael Redd. All sign elsewhere. Effect: BK, still wanting a star player, selects the the guy that almost every "expert" says will be a star player within 5 years, but needs at least 2 - 3 years to develop his game. The top PGs in the draft are all "NBA ready" and would immeadiately start in Atlanta. Logic rating: 5 Cause: BK selects Marvin Williams ( the projected star ) Effect: Still needing a guy who can potentially play the point, BK aggressively goes after the versatile Joe Johnson, who he thinks can be Chauncey Billups-like as a playmaker and as a scorer. Logic rating: 9 Cause: Versatile All-American guard and Pac-10 POY Brandon Roy, publically states that he doesn't want to work out for the Hawks. He and his agent probably sees that JJ, Josh Smith, and Josh Childress are already on the team, and wants to go to a place where he could immeadiately be a starter and get lots of playing time Effect: BK crosses Roy off of his potential draft list, and focuses solely on the frontline Logic Rating: 10 Cause: The Hawks, desperately needs frontline help and a PG Effect: With the best PG available being UCONN PG Marcus Williams, the Hawks draft 2 time Defensive Player of the Year and 1st team All-American Shelden Williams. Critics say that he won't be a star because of his limited athletic ability, but that he's "the most NBA ready guy in the draft and should have little problem transitioning to the league." Logic Rating: 7.5 Cause: The Hawks still need a PG, seeing that the JJ experiment at the point, doesn't maximize his potential as a player Effect: The Hawks sign Speedy Claxton about a week after the draft. Claxton is an oft-injured PG, but the best free agent PG available. With his injury history, it was a calculated risk Logic Rating: 6.5 Here's the truth: - Hawks should've selected Paul to run the team, instead of drafting Marvin. Paul was ready to play and lead immeadiately. - The Hawks were right in doing everything possible to acquire JJ. You would just have to hope that they would stil aggressively go after him, after drafting Paul. - The Hawks were right in addressing the frontline and taking Shelden Williams. He just didn't pan out at all to be that solid player. - The Hawks, if Roy's refusal to work out here was a clear indication that he didn't want to play here, could've had a Steve Francis and Vancouver-like situation here, with Roy demanding a trade if we took him . . a scenario that NO ONE has even thought about. - The Hawks going after Speedy Claxton was a calculated risk, but a move that most people approved of because he was a quick, defensive minded PG It was a domino effect folks. The decision not to take Paul, pretty much lead to the rest of the decisions.

. . is a lot worse than any of you think. The Grizzlies worst enemy in that city is actually the college team, the Memphis Tigers. While the Griz struggle to even fill the arena to 70% capacity, the Tigers have EVERY home game sold out this year. Every single one. With Memphis only having 600K people in the city, and a little over a million people in metro Memphis, the people there are pretty much choosing between the Griz and the Tigers. Coach Cal and the Tigers have that city on lock. If the Griz were in Louisville, they'd be going through the same thing, if Pitino and the Cardinals were a top 5 team. Here's how bad their financial situation is. I was watching their game against the Warriors a few weeks ago, and the Grizzlies announcers were talking about the attendance situaton, in comparison to what the Warriors have. Of course, they gave the Warriors crowd props, but said something that speaks volumes about the state of the Grizzlies. The Lakers came to Memphis about 3 weeks ago. Kobe is a box office draw, no matter where he goes. In Memphis, that game is ALWAYS sold out. This year, the announcers said that it might have been 11 - 12 thousand in the building to see the Lakers that night. That's unheard of for a Laker game in Memphis, even if the game was on a weeknight. If we're "broke" as a franchise, then Memphis is literally on skid row. It's easy to see why they took the Lakers offer instead of ours. They don't want to spend any extra more money than they have to. They got a cheap young, but potentially talented player, and 2 future picks to work with. Most of all though, they can run that team on the cheap, while selling the fan base on the potential of the young kids. Sound familiar? Critt + 2 first round picks is almost the exact same deal we did with Phoenix to get JJ. And Memphis will have the option to either use those picks, or sell them off for other assets, or just for extra cash, like Phoenix did. Chill + AJ + Lue + Lorenzen gets that deal done, but they don't get any future assets, and the y would have to pay Chill at least MLE money. Replace Chill with Marvin, and it's a more attractive deal, but at a redundant position. It would be like us trading Horford to acquire Maggette. Memphis is full of those tweener 3s and 4s. Replace Smoove with Chill, and they have to pay Smoove big money to stay. I think the only way we get Gasol, is if we took Cardinal too. Then, they would gladly taken Smoove and re-signed him. The Laker trade gives them a "potential" type player in Critt ( who may may play a lot at the 2 in Memphis ), plus the 2 picks that the can use however they want. It's a salary dump, that also gives them 3 cheap assets, instead of 1. I don't think they want to spend extra money, if they're horrible and the fans aren's showing up. They'd rather go young, and build around Gay and Conley. They may want to win, but they have to get the financial situaton under control first. Then, if they do decide to move to Vegas or wherever, they maybe could make a major move for a FA, to be the face of the franchise in that new city, along with Gay.

Good call Quest, although Lue and Zaza don't play nearly enough to be the difference between wins and losses. The Portland losses, getting blown out by Phoenix, losing to the Clips, and most of the other losses this month, can't be blamed on Lue and Zaza. And like I said, if Mario West is the key to us winning, we're in trouble to begn with. The recent troubles of JJ are a big reason. Also, we're not stopping anybody as a team recently. One more thing, look at who we played in December. I forgot who said this during the win streak, but it could've been that we were feasting on teams worst than us, or teams struggling at that time ( Utah ) Come to think of it . . HOTLANTA said that !!! It could be that we're good enough to beat bad teams most of the time, but struggle with teams at or slightly above our level . . especially on the road. To me, these next 4 games will be very telling for us. Jersey and Philly are definitely winnable games. The Lakers will be in the middle of their long road trip without Bynum, so that's a winnable game. And Cleveland is a little different squad withoit Varejao, so that should be a game we can take as well. If we lose all 4, Woody should definitely be fired, because the confidence will be completely gone. If we lose 3, a trade should be imminent. If we split, nothing will be done, and the Hawks will just try to ride things out. But if we win 3, it'll kind of back up my theory that the Hawks might just be a much better home team, than road team. Win all 4, and that will definitely be the case. We're a team without a good veteran leader, so it may be that these young guys need the comfort of home in order to play a their highest level. On the road, the role players won't show up. At home, they usually perform well. On the road though, JJ probably needs to go off, in order for us to wn.

Atlas, you are exactly right. JJ does not slow this team down. If anything, a player like him is essential to a team that likes to run. Almost every running team in the history of basketball has these 3 elements: 1) a PG who can push the pace, make the correct decision with who to give the ball to, and possess the ability to score the basketball himself if need be. 2) at least one atlhletic wing or guard who can run the floor and finish on the break when he revceives the ball. 3) at least one great shooting wing or guard that can trail the break, and knock down the 3 or an open outside shot. Phoenix 4 years ago: Nash, Marion, JJ 80s Lakers: Magic, Worthy, Scott They could spread the floor perfectly and you had to account for everybody. Anfd the PG always made the correct decision with the ball. The reason why the Hawks can't get out and run like everybody wants them to run, has everything to do with who is bringing the ball up the floor. We can't properly run the break, with Chill, Horford, or Smoove racing the ball up the floor. And because AJ won't make people accountable for him, he's only adequate in running the break. Situation: - Rebound is immeadiately grabbed by Horford, who passes to AJ - Once AJ starts up the court, he sees that Smoove and JJ are out running with him. Hawks have the advantage. It's a 3 on 2 break with AJ pushing the pace - On a real break, AJ has to push HARD to not only make his man accountable for him, but to also make the other defender think about cutting him off, so that he doesn't get a lay-up. - Smoove should go hard toward the goal, while givng AJ enough space to score the lay-up - JJ should trail AJ, looking for the pass if JJ is left wide open. But AJ is the key. He has to make the decision to take the ball himself, or find the open man. He can't always pass the ball in thay situation. Baron usually takes the ball all the way in. So does Deron most of the time. Parker and Ellis almost always take the ball to the rim. Nash, on some occasions, will even pull up for a 3, if the defender closest to him is backpeddling and playing way off of him. Most of the time, he's passing to a shooter. Paul likes to drive the ball and kick out to Peja for a 3 A shooter is just as important as a finisher on a fast break. But the most important element is who is leadng the break. He is the decision maker that will enable everything to work.

Quote: Ugh, the dreaded "you can't teach size" line. Well, you know what they always say . . . "At the end of the day, you can't teach size, because it is what it is."

This board amazes me sometims. All you saw for the last 2 years on this board is . . ."we need a PASS-FIRST PG" Now, that the ULTIMATE pass-first PG is on the market, people don't want him because he's "getting old and he costs too much". Didn't this board say the exact same thing about Iverson 2 years ago? Talking about he's on the decline Amd let me inform people that New Jersey does NOT have a better roster than us. If they are better than us, they are better ONLY because they have Kidd, and we don't. Give them AJ and take off Kidd, and Jersey MIGHT have 11 wins right now. If we had Kidd, we would be over .500 and praising "The Beard" for his solid coaching. But NJHAWK, I disagree on one thing. You don't trade Smoove to get Kidd, if they won't take Chill + expirings. You trade Marvin instead. Smoove, with Kidd as his PG, transforms into an absolute DEMON offensively. He would make the game so much easier for Smoove, that it wouldn't be funny. I think someone else referred to this, but think of how Paul has turned Tyson Chandler into a legit offensive threat. With Marvin gone, Smoove could see his PPG skyrocket to around 23 a game. And life would be soooooooo much easier for JJ. He wouldn't have to work nearly as hard for his points. Sure, Kidd has never been a good shooter. But the amount of points he creates is on the same level as a Nash or a Paul. His 2nd best asset to me, is his rebounding ability. if he grabs a defensive rebound, he instantly starts a fast break. And guess who loves to run the floor. For all of you uptempo fiends, Kidd is your guy. Oh I forgot . . you guys would rather cheap, scrub PGs like a Brevin Knight, Ridnour, or a Duhon running the show. Some of you cats continuousy blast the ASG for doing nothing, yet, you wouldn't take a chance to do a deal like this? All that talk about . . (( crying )) I want to root for a win-nerrrrrrr . . I want the Hawks to win championshipssssss . . Yet, some of you blink on a deal like this, and would ratlher settle for an All-District PG to run the Hawks, instead of a current All-Star and future hall of famer to run the squad? GTFOH !!!! But as soon as a team like Cleveland, or the Lakers acquire Kidd, everyone will be like . . "see, the ASG doesn't care about the Hawks. They're too cheap". Lineup: Kidd JJ Smoove Horford Zaza Or how about this lineup: Law Kidd JJ Smoove Horford If we trade Marvin, we keep Chill . . and vice versa. Then you tell Shelden or Zaza, Solo, West. and Salim to "man up" and contribute. If it pays off, we make the playoffs damn interesting for the next 2 years. If it doesn't, at least you tried to go for it, and you only lost Marvin and Chill in the proocess. Oh, and if you realy trust the kids, you even consider dealing JJ and some of the expiringd for Kidd and a pick. But we have to pair up Kidd with Smoove, to give us that dynamic threat. I'm with you NJHAWK. We have enough parts here to offer Jersey, without going "all-in". That's exactly what Denver did with Iverson. And while it hasn't paid off in the form of a title, they're at least in the conversation.

Quote: But we're definitely sitting Al or Smoove to start either Shelden or Acie. The dropoff is just too great. So those 2 have to accept their roles off the bench, and be as productive as possible. LOL @ me. That should read . . . " But we're definitely NOT sitting Al or Smoove, to start either Shelden or ZAZA"

Acie, Shelden, and even Zaza might perform better as starters. But we're definitely sitting Al or Smoove to start either Shelden or Acie. The dropoff is just too great. So those 2 have to accept their roles off the bench, and be as productive as possible. The dropoff between Acie and AJ though, is miniscule, especially if Acie plays with the starters. Remember during the preseason? AJ was hardly seeing any time on the floor. Then he pitched that hissy-fit. He did it because he knew he was about to be completely out the loop. Once word came down that Turtle was going to be a no-go to start the season, Woody had to decide t go with AJ or Law. I think before AJ's fit, he was fully prepared to go with Law. Then, when he finally did make the switch, Law gets hurt. Now, with AJ playing just as inconsistent as the rest of the Hawks, the time is about right to see if Acie's skill set is a better fit for the team with the starters. He's not going to get any better than what he is now. The same can't be said for Acie. AJ's 7 points on 6 shots, and 5 assists, are lackluster at best. For a team that struggles to score, he probably needs to be creating over 20 ppg ( own points + points from assists ). He needs to be a 10 - 11 ppg / 5 assist guy . . or an 8 ppg / 7 assist guy. He needs to play well enough to make Woody think twice about giving Lue, even Law, extended minutes. If JJ is struggling and others can't pick up the scoring slack, he can't play the passive PG role. If he does, then his minutes might as well go to Acie.

Quote: Layups and tips, huh? Who gives a shtye? Check out the record. It's 18-24. That has nothing to do with layups and tips. Check out his overall record. Your excuses get worse every day. Are you Mike Gearon in disguise? Yeah I know Pete. I know. The bright side is that they did make 19 lay-ups/tips. That's 19 of 36 for a 53% conversion rate. ( 8 of those lay-ups came during that furious comeback, which means they were probably converting at less than a 40% rate before that point ) Woody should know better though. When controlling the Hawks, he has to know that with JJ and Smoove, he can get away with using the secondary joystick to have them do a special move going to the hole. If he uses the special move, he can make a lot more lay-ups with them. But with guys like Zaza, Chill and Acie, he has to know that he probably needs to tap that circle button 2 times, in order for them to adjust the lay-up and make the shot. His bonehead azz should know this! (( bleepin )) Woody . . killing us with all of those blown lay-ups.

Quote: I guess that ZaZa missed 5 tips all by himself. I recall one possesions where Chills and ZaZa must have tipped the ball 5 times on the same position. Throw in all of Smooves wild shots....I will say 17. Is there any coinidence that Lue and ZaZa were both on the floor when the offense struggled to score ? Say what you want about Law and Lo but they keep the ball moving and the defense rotating where Lue and ZaZa hold the ball while causing the offense to stagnate and the allowing the defense to find their man and lock him down. I don't hold Woody responsible for EVERYTHING like some do. I do hold him 100% accountable for throwing away the offensive chemistry we were developing in December with causing Law to regress by playing Lue and Solo and Sheldon growthtobe totally stunted thanks to his loyalty to ZaZa again in January. I hopethat loyalty to Lue and ZaZa GETS HIM FIRED ASAP ! I now give Woody NO credit for the great play in Decmeber b/c it was injuries that forced the players who should be playing on the court who caused those wins. Then when Woody sees this combo of players works who goes right back to the line ups that have lost for the last 3.5 years. Every reaction has a cause. JJ's sore leg is one of the causes but the main cause is Woody's decision of who to play. Woody needs a class on offensive chemistry and ball movement b/c he does not get it. The correct answer is 17. I counted 18 when I re-watched the game this morning, but the official game log indicates 17 misses. So the new theory is that Lue and Zaza's absence were the reason why the Hawks won in December? At least the record backs that theory up. OK, all somebody needs to do then, is Nancy Kerrigan both Lue and Zaza, and tell BK to tell Woody that he has to play both Lorenzen and Mario, or he wll be fired in the middle of the Nets game. Who would've thought that an undrafted rookie, a center that 100% of the fan base clowned last year, and a struggling rookie PG, would hold the keys to winning for the Hawks?

Good poll AHF.

Starting Zaza would only work if he'd be committed to just being a banger on the boards on both ends. But it's a shame that Zaza isn't taking advantage of 2nd string centers. Same goes for Shelden and backup PFs. The 2nd unit of Law, Lue, Shelden, Chill, and Zaza should be decent offensively. But when Shelden and Zaza shoot 40%, Chill and Law can't make open jumpers, and Lue dribbles outthe clock so he can "be like JJ", you kind of understand why those guys come off the bench.

Hey Dol, it's hard looking at an issue from all sides, isn't? JJ goes out of the game, the Hawks are up 19 - 14. JJ comes back into the game, and the Hawks are down 28 - 27. And we would've been down even more, had Marvin not made 2 of his 3 made FGs right before JJ came bac in the game. Smith, Marvin, Chill, Zaza, and Lue were on the floor. That group couldn't even sustain the lead. And people wonder why JJ plays all the time. Hawksquawk, take a wild guess how many lay-ups and tips we missed last night? Just take a wild guess.

I think the only way Woody would've stuck with the uptempo style of play, is if he had Speedy available or if Salim was able to contribute as an instant offense shooter off the bench. With Speedy's defensive prowess and Salim's shooting, we would've been able to truly play uptempo. But with Speedy not available, and Salim a non factor, that forced guys like AJ and Lue back into the fold. You guys have yet to give me an example of a decent uptempo team, that didn't have a good PG running the show. The end of last night's game was sparked by the defense. When we play defense, we can play that uptempo style. Otherwise, without a good PG, we're going to look shaky trying to play fast. AJ just isn't the guy as a floor leader and a distributor to play like that.

Quote: Nobody said anything about a Rah Rah speech. I said Motivate. Motivation may come from benching a guy until he plays better. Motivation may comes from pulling guys into the huddle to tell them exactly what he needs from them. Isn't that what Woody tried to do with Zaza and Shelden? You act like he doesn't try to do that with guys. Except people on here don't call that trying to motivate Shelden or Zaza . . they call that being in Woody's Doghouse . . as if Woody doesn't play them, just for the hell of it. Quote: As far as your college rah rah speech stuff... an interesting note about coaching is that Phil Jackson would pull Horace Grant to the side in practice and take his fustrations out on him in order to motivate Scottie and MJ... He said that he knew that Grant could take it but that MJ and Scottie couldn't. Moreover, if a coach cannot motivate his team, he will lose his team. How can you tell a player who is making 8 million dollars a year that I want you to set picks all day long and score off of garbage points... and I don't want you to think about yourself but I want you to think about the team.... if you're not a motivator?? Come on Northcyde... you can do better. The "motivation" excuse was used as the reason for firing Scott Skiles. That Skiles was losing his team. Do you actually believe that about him? Here's the reality about the Bulls - PJ Brown was very important to their defense, and provided timely points. More than Wallace, he may have been their anchor. His absence was immeadiately felt. - Ben Wallace, in everybody's eyes, is rapidly declining as a defensive player. In reality, Noah probably should be starting ahead of him. - Ben Gordon is one of the streakiest shooters in the league. He's either red hot, or ice cold.v When he's cold, that team gets blown out because he doesn't quit shooting. - Kirk Hinrich, until both Gordon and Deng recently went out of the lineup, was shooting like straight garbage. His decline as a player this year was probably the most shocking. - Tyrus Thomas is a major project, and not quite ready to be a quality starter . . and migt not ever be. - Deng claimed to be very affected by the Kobe trade talk, and that led to him playing at a lower level than last year. They went from being one of the best defensive teams in the league, to a team that can't stop anybody. And they shot the ball worse than anybody in the entire league. Yet, Skiles takes the fall? Their current coach still has the same problems. I guess he'll get fired at the end of the year. Motivation? Please. The demise of the Bulls is not the gritty, gutty Scott Skiles fault. I guess he forgot how to coach overnight. Woody is not Skiles. Skiles is a much better coach. But it illustrates that even a good coach can look like a bad one, when the players don't perform. The fact that Shelden is not playing like Karl Malone, is not Woody's fault.

Quote: Remember that, just before the season begun, we all agreed that one of Hawks' biggest assets and weapons was young and athletic roster, which was suppose to be used to out-run opponents with intensity and hi-octane-tempo! That can only be done with extended rotation... We saw glimpse of that during pre-season... Since then, we shot ourselves in the foot! Our rotation was shortened, our starters play way too much minutes (fadding away late in the games, having occassional black-outs), 1st round draft picks are kept on the bench (with already lost confidence)... All this points to one direction - Woody! I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but he simply doesn't get the most out of our team, and ignores our strenghts! It seems that sometimes we lose before we even stepped on the floor... The problem here latey, is that our bench has played far below expectations. If you really look at the team, not too many people can complain about the play of Smoove, Marvin and Horford. They have done their job. JJ has been erratic and is now hobbled, so while I don't agree with people clowning him, I see why people are irritated with his play. AJ at the point has been serviceable. Chill is the energy guy, and provides that on most nights. Those are the core 6. I don't have many complaints about them, for the most part. The rest of the bench has pretty much been garbage. So how do we do all of the things that we thought we could do, if the rest of the bench plays like crap on a nightly basis? Everybody has their own favorite bench player that they want to see get more time. If the fans had their way, West would be the 6th man, Law the 7th, Solo the 8th, with people split on whether Chill should be immeadiately traded for a shooter. That tells you all you need to know about the state of our bench. - most agree that Shelden was the wrong pick from the jump, but blame Woody for his lack of development and desire to impact a game - most agree that Zaza never accepted his role from the jump this season, but pitches a hissy-fit when Woody suspends him for one game - most agree that Woody plays Lue too much ( and I'm in that camp ), but Lue sometimes is the only scorer we can bring off the bench. - most agree that Law should play more so that he can gain more confidence ( I'm in that camp too ), but it's hard to stick with him, if he plays timid. - some want West and Solo to get time, but Woody would rather go with the starters than play them . . ( and if those 2 are the key for us, God help us forreal ) - some want Salim to get more time, but gets mad at Woody for pulling Salim, after he goes 1 - 5 FG in 4 minutes of play. Yet, fire the coach, and everything is A-OK. Sorry, I just don't believe that. If Woody is fired, the ASG should force BK to coach the team . . ala what Isaiah is doing. And if BK can't get them to play better, then they should fire him. After that, they should sell the team to a group of Atlanta-area rappers. Let Ludacris, T.I., and OutKast own the Hawks. Hell . . might as well givve them a shot.

Quote: Sorry North.. I don't think you could be more wrong. The coach has 3 main goals: 1. Inspire and Motivate. The coach has to motivate players to play hard at all times. This is not college Diesel. In college, you play at the most 2 times a week, against conference rivals. A college coach can give that rah-rah speech and get people crunk enough to play strictly off of emotion at times. In the NBA, you may 5 games in 9 days . . all away from home . . sometimes playing on consecutive nights or 3 games in 4 nights. That "Hoosiers" speech ain't working every game in this league. The best teams in the NBA try to approach each game in a business-like manner. They just go out and do their job game in and game out. I seriously doubt that Nate has to motivate that Portland team every night. Those guys are self-motivated. They go out and do their jobs each and every night. Quote: 2. Draw up a gameplan that wins based on his personnel. This is one of those areas where Wood fails immensely. He has no idea of how to use the talent he has. Most fans agree that the Hawks should play uptempo. But every time someone off the bench plays, they mess up. Lue, Shelden, Zaza, Salim, Lorenzen even Law, all come in the game and underperforms. Then the fan base whines and cries about his play. During January, it was obvious to me that Woody shortened his rotation because he had lost all confidence in most of the bench. That move backfired, because the extended minutes are wearing the starters down. So if the bench can't be trusted, ( and most of the fan base hates our bench now ), what is a coach supposed to do? Woody is definitely not a great strategist. You won't get any argument from me on that. He isn't going to outcoach most people. But at some point, players have to play their roles and do their jobs. Woody is not Jesus. He can't touch Lue, and give him better defensive awareness . . or make Shelden play tougher every night . . or give Zaza the ability to finish strong inside and bang people around on the boards . . or make Salim slow down so that his shots go in . . or have Law make his lay-ups around the rim. Most everybody thought we had this tremedously deep bench. Some of them played well in spurts, but they were wildly inconsistent and routinely got outplayed as a group on a nightly basis. So much for our depth. And for you Mario West fans . . if Mario West is the difference between us being more competitive or not . . the Hawks are in serious trouble anyway. Quote: 3. Manage the in-game play. When players "get tight", it's up to Wood to decide when to pull them off the court. So who do we pull in that Portland game? JJ? Smoove? Marvin? Because they were the main players who were playing tight that day. He took Zaza out, after his foul on Roy cut the lead to 8. We even push the lead back to 10 a few times. Then everything went to hell on both ends of the floor, with our best player being a big reason why. So do you take JJ off the floor in those last 3 minutes? Quote: Wood has made it no secret that he uses a time sub pattern so that players will know when they are going in. Watch the games and you will see it. Chillz come in mid first. Lue comes in start of the second.. His substitution is like clockwork... with no real dependence on how well a player is doing. Yeah I know his sub patterns. Woody is the only coach in the history that uses timed substitutions. I watch a lot of this league, and can tell you what a lot of teams sub patterns are. And those coaches will also pull a "hot" player out of a game in the 1st half, in order to stick with their rotation. Most coaches agree that it is more important to keep players relatively fresh for the 2nd half. That's why a bench player is more likely to see most of his minutes in the 1st half, than in the 2nd. But in Woody's case, he plays JJ to death because no one steps up to sustain leads or at least keep the Hawks from losing ground, when JJ does go to the bench. We all know that he plays too many minutes. But we all should also know that the team goes brain dead without him on the floor. It's just like the isolation plays at the end of games, that everybody hates for JJ. Even you acknowleged that coaches have been doing that for their star or best player, for years. Yet, when Woody puts a game in JJ's hands, it's the worst possible move in the world. Diesel, if the Hawks have a better coach in mind, I'm all for replacng Woody. But just like in Chicago, Memphis, New York, Milwaukee, Sacramento, New Jersey, Philly, and Sacramento, those teams may need much more than a coaching change, to get things right. But changing a coach is almost always the first move. That's just how sports work. It satisfies the fan base . . for about 2 weeks. The the fan base usually says . . "Hey wait a minute. We got rid of the problem ( coach ), so why isn't this team getting better?" Go get Lenny Wiklins or Larry Brown. Maybe they can magically fix what's wrong with us. In the meantime, the best chance this team has to win, is if they play defense every night. If we start stopping people like we did in Nov and Dec, this team, horrible coach and underachieving players and all, can get back on track.

Quote: I saw this posted on the Hawks espn board with of corse NO LINK but it said Isiah and BK were talking about a trade of Eddie Curry and NY's 1st round pick in 08 coming to atl for Marv, Chills and Law. Sounds like bs but it is Knight and Isiah so who knows. I could possibly see Shelden, Chill and Acie . . for Curry and the pick. But I think the deal has to be BS because I don't think you can trade 2 consecutive 1st round picks. The Bulls got their pick last year. That's a foolish deal though, on both sides.

Quote: If we had lost by 2000 points. Woody would still be our coach tomorrow. The ASG think as Northcyde does: "LOLZ people. It's not Woody's fault our players suck! get real" All I do is try to tell you guys the truth, that's all. I have never said that Woody has absolutely nothing to do with our play recently. I just think this isn't entirey his fault, no way he should get all the blame for this. These players have to take a big chunk of the responsibility for this. These guys are professionals. But some of you act like they're high school freshmen that need to be told every single little thing to do by Woody. These guys know what they have to do. They just have to do it and close games out at the end. The Portland collapse definitey wasn't Woody's fault. That team was in cruise control the entire game. Then as soon as Portland gets the lead under 10, and the crowd really gets into it, we start messing up left and right. We couldn't do anything right offensively, and couldn't stop them defensively. That's called players getting tight. I've seen that too many times in sports, especially on the road. It happened to my high school team back in the day. You tighten up and overthink everything, constantly looking at the clock. You try to make perfect plays, instead of just going out there playing. If AHF reads this, I'm sure he remembers that 31-point comeback that Kentucky pulled off at LSU back in the 90s. I remember watching that. That ish was absolutely incredible. LSU was dominating that team. Kentucky slowly started to chip away. Then they hit some 3s to get it under 20. Once they got it under 10, I knew LSU was losing that damn game. The same thing that happened to the Clips tonight. They got extremely tight and almost let us tie it. If they would've lost that game, no way you can blame that on Dunleavy.

Quote: I'm sorry Northcyde. But you are delusional. We have a team talented enough to be a top four team in the East... When a team plays the way we have the last month it is OBVIOUS to everybody with any slight of objectivity that they have given up on the coach... Look at the body language of half of our freaking players. Loosing the team the way Woody has is the Cardinal sin of coaching... All those retarded plays of off time outs, the substitution patterns that puts the hot player on the bench, the lack of adjustments, the lack of getting bench players comfortable in their roles... all that pales in comparison to when your team plays the way it does night in night out the way our Hawks our playing for Woodson. Top 4 in the East? Now that's delusional. We all know that Woody is the anti-christ and the #1 problem with the Hawks. Just Skiles was the problem in Chi-town. And Brown was the problem in NYC And Fratello was the problem in Memphis Bickerstaff in Charlotte Stotts in Milwaukee Woody will take the fall, no doubt, just like alll of those other coaches. Damn . . . Acie should've taken that 3 with 20 seconds left. Tie game if he hits that. That proves right there that he's playing not to mess up. Oh well . . mission DEFINITELY not accomplished. No defense tonight, until the very end.

DAMN ACIE . . .I wish he would've taken that 3 instead of going inside. Sam is about to ice it . . .lead is 5

Quote: And WHY are the Hawks announcer so excited about Al Thornton??? I am getting sick over this and they sound like they want to throw a party for the guy. Our crew just appreciates good basketball, no matter who plays it. Especially Smitty. They did it when Outlaw and Roy were going off too.

Then again, everything is Woody's fault, so I blame Woody for Thorton going off.