TheNorthCydeRises

No excuse tonight. Thorton is just ballin. Gifted offensive players can explode like that.

WOW . . the Al Thorton show !!! Then Mobley with the nice hesitation and the dunk. Down 20 just that quick . . wow !!!

The coaches in the East know who are the ballers in this conference are. JJ is the guy, the only guy, coaches gameplan for when playing the Hawks. The shooting percentage is low for him, but his assists are up. Van Gundy, Mitchell, Brown, Saunders, Chicago's coach, Riles, Isaiah ( based from last year ), and Cheeks probably all voted for him. Congrats JJ.

Quote: Hey douchebag just because you don't agree doesn't make it wrong. Check his record and the product on the floor. And just because I don't agree, doesn't make me a douchebag . . LOL II

Quote: North, I'm not sure if it's occured to you that since 98% of Hawks fans on this board think Woodson is a huge problem and a terrible coach...did you ever stop and think that maybe there is merit to it? Are people in the huge majority who disagree with you really not objective? Or, is it possible that the one in this discussion who has lost objectivity is you? Just a thought. Pete, all I said that giving Woody an F is not being objective. And it's not. And I think you know that, but don't want to admit it. I refuse to be so emotionally scorned as a fan, that I can't look at something objectively. Most of you hate Woody, so it skews your thought process. Woody deserves a C or C-. That's an appropriate grade for him this season. LOL . . almost everyone on this board predicted the Hawks to finish somewhere between 35 - 42 wins. Yet, when we're on that exact pace as a team, he gets an F? LOL @ that. The same people placing all of the blame on Woody for this losing stretch, are the very same ones that DIDN'T give him credit when the Hawks won 12 of 17 games in Nov and Dec. Talking about how the players were winning in spite of Woody. GTFOH !!! You win as a team and you lose as a team. But if you're going to give the players most of the credit for winning, you damn well better place blame on them when they lose. And vice versa. My bad . . Woody is to blame for - JJ's erratic shooting - Not getting JJ rest, even though everything breaks down when he's not in the game - Shelden playing with 10x less intensity than his future wife - Speedy being hurt . . again - Lue still pounding the ball and having no defensive awareness - Zaza crying for PT when he was shootng 35% FG - AJ not being able to play like a legit PG every night - Ish, AJ having to play at all, seeing how Speedy, Law, ad Lue were ahead of him on the depth chart before preseason started. - Salim supposedy being the "hired gun", but plays more like the "hired slingshot", with all those rocks he throws at the rim - Horford not being able to guard or score on elite frontline players. After all he is the #3 pick, and supposed to be a superstar by now. - Law, one of the most clutch players in college b-ball last year, not being able to make 35% of his jumpers nor 50% of his lay-ups - Chill not being able to create his own jumper This fan base complains day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day . . . about not having outside shootng, or a low post scorer, or a legit PG Yet Woody is supposed to wave his magic wand, rub he and AJ's beard, and say ALA-KAZZAAMMM !!!!! WE CAN NOW . . - be an uptempo team with no problem - defend big and talented frontlines - rebound every night - get great production from the bench - see JJ play 2006 JJ-like every night - hit 6 - 8 threes a night - have Smoove and Marvin be able to carry the team when JJ is on the bench PRESTOMUDDAFUGGINCHANGO!!!! (( poof )) That's what you guys want Woody to do . . become a wizard. Meanwhile, Popovich and the damn Spurs, with 2 all-star caiber players on the floor, but without their PG, Parker-Longoria, can't even beat a team that hadn't won a damn game since Christmas. Funny how even a good team can look like garbage, without a good PG running the show. I refuse to be part of the emotional, schizophrenic flock Pete. A lot of you guys act like only Woody is keeping us from being a real good team. I refuse to live that Hawksquawk lie. Woody gets a C- from me. The team is better than last year, despite having to depend on 2 rookies, seeing key parts of the bench actually regress as players, and seeing JJ playing un-JJ-like sometimes. I think Woody's biggest mistake, is not starting Acie. And that may keep the team from taking off like it should. That's objectivty.

LOL. . of course, Woody gets the F. It just kills the Squawk to be objective at all times i see.

Quote: Again, you're confusing STAR PG with good caretaker. I agree, he's not going to come out and take over a game and make his presence known in every game. There are only a handful of PGs that can do that: Kidd, D WIlliams, Chris Paul, and Steve Nash. We call those Star PGs. Guys like Miller, Calderon, D. Harris, etc... they don't show up every night and those guys are the second tier of PGs. Wrong. Those 2nd tier guys do show up every night. They may not put up big numbers every night, like the stars do, but they're going to do exactly what they should do as PGs. As a PG, you not only have to create for others, you have to create for yourself sometimes as well. When you create for yourself, it keeps the defense honest. Most important, you can't play the position in a passive manner. Even guys like Duhon, Sergio, Farmar, and Lowry play the point like it should be played. 67% of AJ points come from assists by other people. That's not good at all as a PG. Most PGs have only 30 - 50% of their points coming via assists. When you see that high of a percentage for AJ, it means that he is hardly doing anything creation-wise off the dribble. He can't impact a game every night, with that kind of percentage. Quote: A guy like AJ is a guy who can manage the game and do what you need him to do as far as managing the game, but you're right, he's not going to do what Star PGs do. As Chris Paul rips up the league, think about what our team would be like if we had him. Ish, all I ask him to do, is what a Telfair does. AJ isn't better than Telfair as a PG. AJ is a better open jumpshooter. Quote: One other thing is this... You also have to look at the offensive gameplan that he's asked to run. You make statements about when AJ can score. Well, the question is how disciplined is our offense? What type of system do we run? For the most part, I think the offensive coaching is very bad. This is not playstation where guys do what they're supposed to do every time down the court. In the NBA, there must be a gameplan and offensively, Wood hasn't offered a lot of that! Diesel, you've just answered your own question, and you don't even know it. The PG is ALSO resonsible for the offense that we run. A PG has a number of offensive plays that he can run in the halfcourt set. The type of system that a team runs, has a lot to do with the PG and his abilities. I was shocked to see Seattle beat the Spurs last night . . . until I found out that Parker was out. Jacque Vaughn is a "game manager/caretaker" just like AJ is. And lt me address that phrase for a minute. Being called a game manager is NOT a compliment. It's more of a backhanded compliment, if anything. Whenever you hear a guy called that, they say it because it refers to him not having the talent to truly play the position, so he should just go out and not (( bleep )) anything up. You hear that all the time whe referring to a QB. - Trent Dilfer - Shawn King - Ben Rothleisberger ( his first 2 years ) - David Garrard ( for most of the NFL season ) And when you hear it in basketball, it almost always refers to a guy who isn't fast or is losng his skill. People don't call a guy like Miller or Caderon a "caretaker". They actually make plays. I used to play exactly like AJ does, as a soph in high school. My junior year, I'm all slated to come in and start varsity. Coach loved how I managed the game, passed the ball, and didn't force the issue. Then a senior from Virginia transferrs to my school, and immeadiately shows coach how a PLAYMAKING PG plays the position. Coach was content with me playing the spot, until he saw Octavius. Radio announcer ends up giving him the nickname "High Octane", because he played the position at a fast pace, was always in attack mode, and constantly looked to get people easy baskets. He couldn't shoot worth a damn, which enabled me to still get playing time. But he took my spot because I played the position "too safe", while he took chances and mde plays for people. Diesel, "PG" does not stand for pass guard, or position guard, or passive guard. It stands for POINT guard. He's the guard that is supposed to generate points for his team. Decent PGs can both score and create for others. Star PGs take over games. If you rank the PGs across the league, is AJ even in the top 30? And if he isn't, how in the world is he "decent"?

Quote: I hope that you can see the inconsistency in these two sentences. And I agree that AJ is a game manager, so what gives you the idea he's not someone you can count on like you said earlier? That's the role of a game manager. Thinking that a veteran point guard with one of the top assist to turnover ratios in the league can't be counted on is a bizarre mindset to have. He took one shot last night Left. He touches the ball on almost evry trip up the floor, yet, he takes one shot. He had no positive impact on that game whatsoever, because he didn't try to make anything happen. Is that what you call "counting on somebody"? Assist/turnover ratios are fine. He doesn't turn the ball over, good. But part of the reason why he doesn't have more turnovers, is that he doesn't try to make many plays going toward the basket. Do you know who are perennially in the top 5 or 10 in turnovers every year? Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. Do you know why? It's because they're always trying to make things happen for their team. Let's look at this another way. Do you know why most people would rather have Smoove over Marvin, if given a choice? Marvin makes less mistakes than Smoove, and he shoots way better. But Smoove makes more thing happen on both ends of the floor. So because of that, people would rather have Smoove than Marvin. Marvin can score 20 in a game, and you'd hardly notice it. Smoove could score 13, and you'd notice him because he'll also have 5 blocks, 4 assists, and 3 steals. So in a sense, Marvin plays a "game manager" type of game, while Smoove plays an "impact/playmaker" type of game. The same goes for PG play. A guy who tries to make things happen on the floor, is more valuable than a guy who is content to not make many mistakes, by playing a "safe" game. People constantly complain about Acie playing scared, or playing not to make mistakes. When you play the point, you can't play it not to make mistakes. You have to play it as a true floor leader, to not only make everyone else better, but also to help your team win. And if you also hve to score, so be it. AJ did neither one vs Phoenix. When you look across the league, there isn't a single team that would trade their starting PG, for ours. Not even Seattle trades Watson for AJ straight up.

Quote: because I dont think both will happen. A coaching change or a trade? If we could get a coach in here, who would adjust and get the team into more of a running mode I think we could get on a little run toward the playoffs. Or hell if Woodson would just coach like he did preseason and early this season. That was all you heard in the offseason, run, get out and up the tempo-and they have just abandoned that mentality all together, and it of course comes from the coach. Or we could get a player to help solidify the roster, maybe a solid shooter, Battier or Capono type of player, or even a big time defensive presence in the middle I think would go a long way to helping this team out. Really make teams think twice about constantly getting to the basket, cause we know Smith cant do it all the time by himself. Well that's the problem right there. The fan base is convinced that the Hawks need to run. We played the ultimate running team last night, and they dissected us with their 1/2 court game and defense, rather than pushing the ball and running. We don't have the shooters, the depth, nor the PG ( with AJ running the show ) to consitently run or play uptempo. A coaching change to a guy that likes to run, doesn't make us a better team. You'd still need the personnel to effectively play that way. A coaching change to a guy who can teach both offense and defense, would help though. But if given the choice, give me Mike Fratello and Larry Brown . . over Paul Westhead and Del Harris This team has to with with DEFENSE, to compensate for their offensive shortcomings. - Suns shoot 65% last night, we lose big - Portland shoots 75% in the final 10 minutes of Sunday's game, we lose . . and in the Portland game, we shoot 52% from the field, and still lost the game We're shaky when we play halfcourt offense, and when we try to play uptempo. The one thing that this team does have the ability to do on a nightly basis, is play defense. When they don't do it, it's an almost automatic loss, no matter how they play offensively. On offense, a spot-up outside shooter is not what we need, contrary to popular belief. We need another guy who has the ability to create his own shot. If he can also hit a 3, that's all the better. But if not a perimeter guy that can get his own shot, a post player who can do it. - Gasol - Kidd - Curry - Cassell - Mobley ( people might be ranting and raving about this guy, after tonight ) Kidd impacts the team the most. Gasol balances us out the most. Curry gives us a legit low pot scorer Cassell and Mobley are two guys who can hit the 3, and create their own shot.

I hope Acie watches closely how Sam Cassell plays the point. Too bad we can't trade AJ & Shelden for Cassell.

Quote: You can spin all you want, but sooner or later you'll have to understand that we're 4-11 (.266) over the last 15. That is not characteristic of a team that plays .500 ball. You know what's characteristic of a .500 ball club? As many wins as losses. Not 18-23. Over half of the NBA teams have a .500 record and we are not one of them. We would be 12th in the West. This is not inconsistency. It is consistent bad play since late December. And we were 11 - 5 before this stretch, with the Miami game now pending. We've been on the road for 9 of our last 15 games. We've only beat Seattle. We've let some games get away, no doubt on that. But as I've said, most .500 teams are very inconsistent, both good and bad. We've lost 5 games to teams who are in the top 12 in the league during that stretch ( Dallas, Cleveland, Denver, and Portland twice ) We've lost to a Milwaukee team who, ironically, is one of the best home teams in the league. The games vs Indy, Washington, and Jersey are games we have to win though. Those are the teams we have to beat. The question for this team, is if they can start consistently beating the teams on their level and below, on the road . . . and if they can beat a few good teams at home, while also beating those average and bad teams. People WANT this team to quit on Woody, but they've done anything but quit. The players have a lot more pride than that. They have some games in which they look horrible from the start. But overall, they will still play hard regardless. The blowout last night might be a blessing in disguise, because we should at least be able to give the effort on the 2nd night of a back to back. People want this team to roll over and die, to force ownership to make changes. Don't hold your breath folks. And don't be shocked if they win 3 or 4 of their next 5. It's how schizophrenic, .500 teams play.

Quote: Which is what people should have expected on this 5 game road trip with a gimpy Joe Johnson. The loss at Portland hurts, but I'm not going to complain about 2 out of 5. We'll continue to make up ground with our next homestand...I expect us to win 3 out of 4 of those. The playoffs are all that matter, and we are right on pace for 7th or 8th in the East right now...All is well at the moment... Everyone can relax with their unrealistic expectations. All that being said, if we do lose tonight, and then struggle on the homestand, I do think we'll be in trouble...I don't expect that to happen, though. Jdu . . fans don't want to hear that though. If JJ is indeed hobbled, they want him to heal like Wolverine, and still get 25 points and 7 assists. - Reality is that we came out completely flat against a Denver team without Melo, fought all the way back, but just fell short at the end. - Then we take care of business in Seattle, although we couldn't completely put them away like we wanted. - Then we flat out blow a game we should've won easily in Portland. - Then we get drilled by the best team in the West. It's the schizophrenic nature of the Hawks, that drive people crazy. But this is a characteristic of a team that plays .500 ball. We should definitely be 2 - 2 going into this game, but we're not. Win vs the Clips, and we've at least survived the road trip. And if we beat the Clips, we have 2 very winnable games staring us in the face with Jersey and Philly coming in. If this team is still OK, we should take 2 of the next 3, with a possibility of winning all 3 games. If that happens, Hawksquawk pulls its hair out, because it knows that Woody won't be fired, and there will probably be no moves made. But we'd pull out of the tailspin that we're in. It'll also give us momentum going into 2 big time crowd games, with Cleveland and the Lakers coming into town. I went on record before the season, by saying if the Hawks fell 8 games under .500 at any point in the season, that Woody should be immeadiately fired, no matter what. If we lose the next 3 games, that's exactly where we'll be. And I'll officially join the FIRE WOODY bandwagon. But like I said a month ago, the Hawks need to win at least 25 home games, if we're going to be very shaky on the road. We won 12 road games last year. We'll at least do that this year. It may be that this team is just horrible on the road all year, but good enough at home to beat the teams they should beat, and beat a few teams better than them. March is set up to have a December-like month, if we can survive that road trip after the all-star break. First thing's first though. Beat the Clips tonight t salvage the trip.

Quote: Obviously, we need a better PG... however, i wouldn't call AJ a bust at the PG. He does everything well. He's a good caretaker. He's like Derrick Fisher as a Laker. He knows what to do.. he's just not a star. He won't lose games for you, but he won't win a whole lot of them either. Last night illustrates EXACTLY what I was talking about concerning AJ. He was a complere non-factor in that game. And no, he does NOT do everything well. AJ is strictly a game manager, but he didn't even do that last night. When your PG takes one shot, scores one point, and has one assist, that is completely unacceptable for a starting PG in the NBA. You might as well have called AJ "Casper" last night, cause he was a ghost. Phoenix shot 64% last night, so it's not like I'm blaming AJ for the loss. We lose that game regardless. But when you look at his individual play, the 20 minutes or so he played, was a complete waste of time. It's like I said Diesel, AJ lacks the true PG skill to affect a game on a nightly basis. That's why he's been a reserve the vast majority of his career. He can do it sometimes when people are making shots or when he's making shots. But if that doesn't happen, he can't do the other things that most PGs do, to affect a game. On offense, he's dependent on a guy like JJ or Smoove throwing a ball out to him, so that he can make a jumper. He rarely creates his own offense, a trait that you DON'T see in most starter quality PGs. His inability to penetrate and break people down is a big negative on a jumpshooting team like ours. Comparing him to Derek Fisher is a good call by you, except for one thing. Fisher is a much more aggressive offensive player than AJ. No way Fisher settles for taking one shot in last night's game. And both AJ and Fisher play more like 2's most of the time, instead of 1's. If people are making shots, he can rack up the assists. If people are off, I want to see him get people easier looks going toward the basket. In contrast, Acie played a decent game last night. At one point in that game, Acie was 4 - 7 FG, with 8 points and 3 assists, in a mere 19 minutes of play. At that time, he was looking to impact the game as a scorer, and as a playmaker. That's what we need at the PG position. AJ would be better off playing a hybrid PG/SG role for us. Instead of the Law/Lue backcourt that Woody puts on the floor, I'd like to see a Law/AJ backcourt. When set up, AJ has shot the 3-ball very well for us. With Law at the point, AJ at the 2, and either JJ or Marvin at the 3, we may cure some of our shooting woes. Law isn't shooting the ball well enough to be a spark type scorer off the bench. But he seems to play much better when playing with the starters. And his 3 assists in those 19 minutes of play, resulted in lay-ups and dunks. Acie plays the position much more like a PG, than AJ does. AJ played great back in late December, and he had a great game in Portland. But it's time to see if Law can positively affect a game . . as a starter . . for 28 - 30 minutes a game. And if Law picks up 2 early fouls, leave him in there and see if he can play through it.

Quote: I would love for someone to compile the statistics of our plays ran after a Time Out Go to 82games.com . . . you'll find exactly what you're looking for. Click on the post time-out performance article.

Quote: Terrible shots? How were they terrible? They were good looks that rimmed out. Do you expect the man to come in the game and knock down all his shots when he has not played in months? Players need time to get warm and shooting is effected the most by that. This is the NBA Duke. Salim is a professional. He's supposed to be a shooter. A damn good shooter at that. If a shooter can't make shots in this league, he won't be in the league long. Everytime Salim gets a chance to come in a game to provide an offensive spark, he fails to do it. I'm a big of a Salim fan than anybody. But like with Shelden, I can't defend him anymore. Salim plays ball every day. He probably takes a ton of shots each day as well. I know there is a difference between practice speed and game speed, but a pure shooter like Salim should be able to make shots whether he plays 25 minutes a night, or 5 minutes a night. Sunday against Boston, a seldom used player like Brian Cook steps into a game in the 3rd qtr. It's his first action of the game. Cook is a soft as hell 6 - 9 forward, but he's strictly an outside shooter. He steps in the game, and scores 11 straight points in a 2 - 3 minute span for the Magic, including three 3's. At that time, he blew the game open for the Magic. Of course, Cook can't play like that all the time. But as a shooter, that's what his team looks for him to do. I don't mind one bit for Salim to come into a game firing shots . . or chucking. That's what he's supposed to do. But he has a limited amount of minutes AND shots a night, to impact a game. We can't wait for him to go 1 - 5 FG, before he hits 5 in a row. We can do that with a starter, but not a role player. And he's not going to get 10 shots in a game, unless he plays 25 - 30 minutes, or if he starts out red hot. There are no more excuses for Salim. His niche in the NBA is that of a shooter. If he can't hit at least 2 of his first 4 or 5 shots, he can't be on the floor . . . period. Quote: Anyone who has half a brain cell can see we need scoring and perimeter shooting and Salim provides that. The last time he provided that, was during March, when he was playing 25 - 30 minutes a game. He was great during that stretch. But we all know what his problem is. He's not big enough to play the 2, and he doesn't have the skills of a 1. If he could defend and handle the ball while being pressured, we could get away with him in the starting lineup alongside JJ, with JJ being the playmaker in the halfcourt offense . . ala Daniel Gibson and LeBron. Unfortunately, those aren't Salim's strengths. Quote: Right now we hardly have anyone who can create their own shot. Salim can at will. And who are we kidding? What other guards have been playing so well that Salim can't even play once a month? None of them. Salim can create his shot. But he tends to rush all of his shots, which results in him missing 70% of them. We can't play him, if he's going to miss 70% of his shots. Lue plays befoe Salim, because Lue can come right into a game and make shots. He'll give the points right back, but he can make shots. If Salim could make shots, he'd instantly make Lue obsolete.

I know you guys don't want to read this, but if we beat the Clips tomorrow night . . MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Realistically, 2 games is all we were supposed to win anyway. Of course, we should already have that 2nd win, but oh well. Winning 2 games on this trip was the minimum requirement. Now of course if we lose in LA, that's a different story. I need to check and see if Jersey beat the Bucks. They were winning last I checked.

Damn, i got so mad thinking about that ish, that I forgot to delete the rest of Coach's post, starting with his "see for yourself" post link. All of that ish after me pleading with the Hawks to win tonight, are his thougts, not mine. (( bleepin )) Babcock!

Quote: That is popular opinion in the local ATL area but it is dead wrong. We traded Nique at the perfect time (like with Mookie). Look how his production fell off after we traded him. One thing about Kasten and Babcock is that they would not keep overpaid players around just as sentimental favorites. We traded Nique because Babcock was afraid that he'd lose Nique for nothing. Nique was seeking a big money extension, but Babs didn't want to give him one. What was happening to Nique, was that his shooting was becoming very erratic and he was quickly losing his athleticism. I specifically remember a game the Hawks played aganst the Knicks, in which Nique was flat out horrble in. He was forcing evrything, not passing, and not playing good defense at all. I think it was on TNT back when TNT was the eqivalent of SportSouth. I forget who it was, but the color commetator said that Nique was playing "schoolyard" basketball. That was easly the worst game I'd ever seen him play. Nique hadn't lost his skill, but he was trying to adjust his game to compensate for his lost athleticism. That team was a DOMINANT home team, and Nique was the only guy on the squad that was capable of scoring 30 points at any given time. In the playoffs, you need a guy like that. When he went to the Clippers, he actually played well. And when the Hawks went out there, of couse he killed us. But once the Hawks got to the playoffs, the ish hit the fan with Manning. He as exposed as being the complimentary player that he truly was. He had a few horrible playoff games and we had no one to carry the squad offensively. That "team ball" concept will only carry you so far in the NBA. If you play team ball, you better have at least one guy capable of having an explosive game. We were the #1 seed in the East that year. It was our best chance to win a title, especially since Jordan wasn't in the league. It was Nique's best chance to win a title. And that mo-fo Babcock traded away the only guy that could possibly put the team on his back during a playoff series. Nique might have been motivated more than ever, to try to take this team to the Finals, with no Jordan in the picture. He screwed us, and he screwed the franchise best ever player. Instead, the damn Miami Heat takes us to the full 5 games in the first round, and Indy wipes the floor with us in Rd 2. But the final act of humiliation was when Manning, who was also an unrestricted free agent, turns down a deal with us, and signs a 1-year deal just to play in Phoenix. So guess what coach? WE STILL LOST NIQUE FOR NOTHING !!! Thanks a lot coach. You got me crunk as hell right now, just thinking about that ish. Hawks . . . pleeeeease beat Phoenix tonight. See for your self: http://www.nba.com/history/players/wilkins_stats.html At the time we traded Nique he was shooting his carrer low FG% of .430. In the past he was a 45% to 48% on his FGs. The season after we traded Nique, his scoring dropped from 26 ppg to 17 ppg and his FG % dropped to his career low (at that time) 42%. Two season after the trade his FG % was down to 41%. Three seasons after the trade he was off to Europe (where he could still be "the man"). Nique was close to finished at the time he was traded and definately past his prime. I grew up a Nique fan, not a Jordan fan but I'm not blind to reality or truth either.

Everybody likes AJ if he has a good game. But AJ has far too many 7 point - 4 assist games as well. He just isn't a floor leader that you can count on every game. He doesn't have the skill to do that. When you watch the good PGs in this league, you can see how they can either break people down and feed somebody for an easy lay-up . . or race up the floor and lay the ball in themselves . . or knock down the open shot when need be . . or be able to effectively run a pick and roll with somebody . . be sneaky and get timely steals. Kidd dominates games at times. Even a Jamal Tinsley dominates the games at times. I was kind of shocked to see AJ have 6 assists in the 1st qtr and 11 for the game. Maybe it's because most of AJ's assists come from people hitting a jumpshot, rather than people making lay-ups and dunks. The 2 lobs to Marvin and the one to Smoove on the fast break were nice though. When Acie had those 7 assists in the Charlotte game, he got people very easy looks close to the basket. Or he would pentrate to draw people to him, then kick the ball out to a wide open shooter. That's being a playmaker. Guys like AJ and Watson are game managers. What we need at PG, is a playmaker. In the situation we were in at Portland with 33 seconds left, a guy like a Kidd, or even an Acie, has little problem beating Roy or any of those PGs off the dribble. If they don't help, our PG gets to the rim for a possible lay-up. If they do help, a Kidd or Acie will find the open man. Put AJ in that same situation, and he probably would have to settle for a tough jumpshot because he wouldn't be able to blow past his man.

LOL @ Woody being a coach of the year candidate. And Chill a most improved cadidate? I don't know. Maybe one of the ASG owners are masquerading as a writer for them.

If you shut JJ down, "the closer" will rise from the ashes. Or we'll have a Salim sighting. LOL @ the thread. Nash needs one of those Mike Miller hairbands to keep the hair out his eyes.

Quote: LOL, I am not willing to give up 3 bigs + Chillz for a star--sorry. That bench is miserable. You'd have Solomon and Mario playing 20 minutes a agme. Other teams would do behind-the-back layup drills with Horford out of the game You talk as if our bench isn't miserable right now, or that lay-up drills aren't happening when Horford leaves the game right now. Of the players being dealt, only AJ and Chill get major playing time. Think of Kidd as a combination of both players, but with much greater defensive and playmaking ability. Lue, Lo, and Shelden aren't making contributons here anyway. The backup guards ( Law, Salim, and West ) would have to step up when called upon. And a guy like Zaza would at least have to be consistent offensively off the bench, similar to how he was in the Portland game. Solo may have to play 10 minutes a night, but I think most fans would welcome that anyway. Also, look at it like this. AJ, Lue, and Lorenzen are likely not to be here next season. The same goes for Chill, if he gets an inflated offer from somebody. Only Shelden is guaranteed to be here. We're going to potentially lose 3 - 4 of these guys in the offseason anyway.

Quote: I think what Ncyde is saying is that because other teams do it wrong and go one on one, that lets Woodson off the hook. Woody just is following the trends. Thats the old "everybody is doing it" argument. JJ is hardly in the same class as Kobe or Wade or {insert superstar]. JJ is a very poor man's superstar but Woody doesnt get that part. We would be much better making them play 5 guys, something totally above Woodys head. Yeah . . sort of. It's not like JJ always fails when his number is called at the end though. He's made many shots over the last 2+ years here in the final minute, that have either got us back in a game or won it. He's also passed to other people, mainly Smoove, so that he can take a late game shot. He's done that twice this year at least. He has shown to possess some of that same clutch play that the superstars have. But like you said, Woody doesn't trust the other players on the court to make plays. If they do make a play, it's because JJ has passed them the ball, instead of forcing up a tough shot. Woody would rather give JJ all of the options to either take the shot, or make the play for others, instead of drawing up a ply in which JJ is a decoy for a guy like Smoove or Marvin to get a wide open look.

Quote: Maybe I am not following your post, but it seems like you just showed why Woody doesn't have a clue. He doesn't trust anyone on the team except JJ. Second, he doesn't set the plays up correctly (as you point out). Thus, your post seems to go against your previous defense of Woodson. Again, maybe I am mis-reading. For me, though, the Legler article shows exactly what I have said several times. You have to set up other guys to win the game. In the military you have three plans A, B, and the gone to hell plan. The GTH plan is usually the one that gets used as all other plans fail when in contact with the enemy. Woodson really needs to understand that philosophy. What I try to do Frog, is not defend Woodson. I just try to illustrate to people that the things he does througout a game, are more of the norm of what everybody else does, rather than him being totally clueless. That's why I contend that he's an average coach, and not the worst coach in the league. It's like the example in the thread yesterday I gave, about how NFL coaches play with the lead toward the end of a game. 75% of coaches do nothing but run the ball when the clock goes under 3 minutes, to either run the clock down, or force the other team to burn their timeouts. Only the coaches who are supremely confident in their players or offensive system, will attempt a pass to get a first down, which will potentially seal the victory. It's pretty obvious that Woody trusts two people on this team durnig late game situatons . . JJ and sometimes Lue. It was just interesting to see on the play that we ran with 33 seconds left who was on the floor and the play that was ran. It was almost like JJ wanted to draw the double, so he could pass the ball off. With that amount of time left, I'd much rather give the ball to JJ exactly where Avery had Dirk get the ball. What Dallas did on their last play, is an example of what great coaching and trust in all of your players, can get you. If Avery can get that team to play tough all the time, he's going to win a title very soon.

On NBA Fastbreak, he talks about coaches calling their simpliest play at the end of games. They showed clips of JJ, Kobe, and Vince all taking tough shots at the end of games. All those teams lost. Turkolgu takes the same type shot, but hits the shot for Orlando to win. He calls this a popular trend among NBA coaches. He also says that teams that struggle or coaches who don't trust their role players, tend to just put it in their best player's hands, and live or die by them at the end. Like I told you guys, we're not the only team that plays it just like that. Legs then goes on to illutrate how it should be done. He uses the Mavericks vs the Clippers. In the game for Dallas: JT, Eddie Jones, Stackhouse, Dirk, Brandon Bass - Bass is under the left side of the basket - Jones is in the far left corner - Stack is on the top left wing - Dirk is on the right elbow, about 16 feet away - JT has the ball on the top right wing with the clock clicking down 5 seconds left. JT passes to Dirk, who then backs his man down. If no double team comes, he's going to shoot his turnaround jumper over Tim Thomas 4 seconds left. Brevin Knight, who was guarding JT, drops down to double Dirk. Dirk immeadiately kicks the ball out to JT. As soon as Dirk passed the ball, Eddie Jones races along the baseline to go to the opposite corner, his man goes with him. If JT is open, he takes the shot. 3 seconds JT, seeing Corey Maggette ( I think ) who was guardng Stack, rotate toward him to contest a potential shot, immeadately swings the ball to Stack on the left top side. 2 seconds Kaman, who was guarding Bass under the goal, races out to contest Stack's shot. But with Stack behind the 3 point line, he's way too far away to get to him. He's wide open to take the shot. ( Legler points out that the reason why Stack is so wide open, is because of Eddie Jones taking his man to the opposite corner. If he doesn't do this, Eddie's man could rotate up to Stack and contest the shot. Instead, Stack is wide open, and the only guy able to get to him, is 20 feet away ) Stack makes the shot at the buzzer. Mavs win. For the Hawks to execute something like this, you need JJ in the same position as Dirk, with shooters all around him. AJ, Lue, and Marvin would have to be on the floor, with a guy like Smoove under the goal. Yesterday, on the possession with 33 seconds left, here's where our guys were on the floor: - from the jump, the worst thing about this play, is that JJ is literally 40 feet away from the basket when AJ gives him the ball. Hawks are spread completely on the outside with JJ up top with the ball. - Chill is in the left corner - AJ is on the left wing - Smoove is on the right wing - Marvin is in the right corner - Woody makes a motion for JJ to go with 10 seconds on the shot clock. - WOW . . I think this play is set up for Smoove, of all people, to take this shot. The reason I say that, is because JJ deliberately drove toward Aldridge, who was guardng Smoove on the wing. When Aldridge challenged JJ's dribble, Smoove put his hands up at his waist, ready to receive the pass. He had his hands up before JJ lost control a bit. But Aldridge disruped JJ's dribble enough to throw him off. That's when JJ went into scramble mode. Marvin, who was in the corner, didn't move a muscle. If JJ doesn't lose his dribble, he's probably passing this ball to Smoove. It would've been interesting to see if he shoots, or passes it to Marvin in the corner. As for the last play, JJ runs Roy through a double screen at the free throw line. AJ actually screens two people. He screens Outlaw who as guarding Smoove at the top of the key, and Roy at the free throw line. That double screen has JJ wide open for a 3, except for one thing. Travis Outlaw. He blew that play up. When he went to follow Smoove, AJ picks Outlaw off. At the very last millisecond, he sees that Roy is nowhere near JJ, and peels back to the top of the 3-point line, to go get him. Travis is completely out of control trying to get to JJ, but he recovers just enough to jump at him when JJ releases his shot. JJ also has to contend with James Jones leaving Chill, as he jumps at him as well.