TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: In response to the original poster, as we all know, depth is a wonderful thing. However, depth does little good if: 1) They do not know their role 2) They come in and do more harm than good 3) They are not used correctly to maximize their talents Here lies one of the main issues with Woodson. I get the feeling that he is failing miserably on #3 and because of #1, #2 starts occurring. Many of us grew concerned when we heard "The Closer" was coming back from injury (If I hear Smitty call him that one more time, I swear, I'm gonna shoot myself. The only thing he does is close out the shot clock to damn near zero with his incessant pounding of the ball). Anyway, I digressed, we wondered if Woodson would be able to effectively manage his players with a near-full bench at his disposal. So, what happened? Lorenzen Wright!!! got too many minutes, Al Horford was taken out the game for minutes at a time for no apparent reason, West was nowhere to be seen, T Lue played WAY too many minutes, Acie Law only got 8 minutes coming off a relatively good game at Dallas, Pachulia...dont get me started, and thus it continues... In response to your recent post PB, I agree to a degree about giving people a chance. However, give them a chance as long as they show flashes. Yes, Shelden should get a break because, although inconsistent, can still bang inside and get near double-double numbers on great days. Other times, you wonder why he is even in the game. At least those are flashes. Same for Salim. He can shoot the hell out the rock one game and go ice cold the next (a product of inconsistent PT more than anything imo--plus, it's not like he gets a chance to take many FGs either). However, I disagree when it comes to Zaza. He has proven time and time again that he DOES NOT belong on the court. Someone mentioned that he used to be a bargain. Something is only a bargain when you are paying below market value for something that can provide acceptable service. Zaza's pay is below most other bigs, but his service is simply and utterly unacceptable. A big is supposed to rebound and play defense--he consistently does not do the former and gets a boost of the latter due to offensive rebounds of his poor missed shots. Problem is, he did this last year (along with an alarming rate of turnovers). I have said it before and will say it again regarding the bench: 1) Give Shelden Zaza's minutes and either play Solomon or ship him off to the D League. Dude doesnt play and needs to get a chance somewhere to develop since Woodson apparently refuses to play him. 2) Don't put Lue in there unless you just have NO OTHER choice 3) Give Salim like 5-10 mins near every game instead of letting him ride the pine 4 games out of 5. He will likely shoot better if he gets more consistent PT. He wasnt regarded as the best shooter in his draft for no reason... And most importantly 4) KNOW YOUR ROLE! Woodson needs to make sure he communicates the role each player plays. For players to play their best, they must know what their specific role is. These players know their role. The coach defines their roles. It's just that the players, other than Childress, are inconsistent as hell. Law is a rookie, but he still should be playing a little better than what he is right now, especially scoring the basketball. With the 2nd unit, I think Woody would love for him to be one of the main scoring options. But Acie just isn't finishing when he gets to the rim. Skill-wise, he's definitely our best PG. But he's too inconsistent for Woody to trust right now. I root for Salim, but he should not play before Lue. At some point, you have to perform on the court. There are plenty of players in this league that are in the same positon as Salim, and some of them are able to come right in and contribute. If your designated hired gun off the bench, steps into a game and goes 1 - 5 FG in 7 minutes, that's not good. Same goes with Shelden. A guy like a Jason Maxiell off our bench would be a godsend forthe Hawks. Even if he's not scoring, you know Jason is going to be active as hell. I can't say the same about Shelden. I was all for the Hawks taking Shelden over Roy because of his reputation as a defender and rebounder in college. So if that's what you're known for, you should be able to do it on a nightly basis. And he just doesn't do it, point blank. Zaza represents one of the few big bodies on this team. But he doesn't use his body to his advantage on either end of the floor. The fact that Zaza played 5 or so minutes last night, probably means that Woody is about to give up on him. Who would've thought that Zaza would regress so much? Which brings us to Lorenzen. It's amazing to believe that he could actually be back ahead of Zaza on the depth chart. But he just might be. Lorenzen isn't going to rebound, block shots, or score. What he will do, is play positon defense well enough to possibly enable one of our forwards to grab a rebound off a missed shot. But the fact that he doesn't rebound or score or block shots, makes him a liability as well. Solomon Jones, in my opinion, is probably getting dominated in practice by the "bigs". If he had shown any indication that he could contribute, then he'd be playing. If this is the case, he probably shouldn't play either. Yes, he's athletic and can block a shot from the weak side, but he's a hatchet and pretty much a liability offensively. And his other problem is that you can't play him at center. He has to play PF. You don't take minutes away from Horford, Smoove, or even Marvin when he plays the 4, just to get Solo on the floor. As for Lue and AJ, always remember this about them . . . they are vets that know how to play. Their main problem is that they don't have the physical skills to play consistently on a nightly basis. Both are slower than what they ued to be, making them a liability on defense, and turning them into spot-up shooters on offense. But the one thing that both have going for them, is that Woody trusts them, no matter how much the fan base hates that he does. Mario West, other than Chill, is maybe the only consistent bench performer we have. His sole role is to defend and he does that pretty well. His problem is that he's behind JJ and Chill on the depth chart. Unless one of them are hurt, it's hard to even justify him playing spot minutes. You almost have to play Mario, when JJ plays the point or plays the 3. I'll end with this. Woody can't wait on players. He's looking for a new deal as well. He's going to play the players that he trusts, until he can absolutely not trust them anymore. AJ, Chill, Lue, and for maybe a little while longer, Zaza, are going to get the benefit of the doubt for now. Woody needs solid contributions from the bench right now. We can't do like Phoenix, and go 7 deep, not right now. We'll wear our starters out if we did. Players have to step up, period. Woody would love to go with Chill, Law and Zaza off the bench, with Lue being the hired gun. If not Zaza, then Shelden. But he needs 8 - 9 guys he can trust on nightly basis.

I'll even put it in my sig, so that you can see how close you are on a daily basis.

Quote: We will see where the team is at when it gets to the all star break. Well make your prediction now, so we'll have something to refer to whe the break comes. How many games below .500 will the Hawks be at the break, since you are back to your "the nest is falling" routine?

Quote: The honeymoon is over and back to the cellar the Hawks go. Can't even stop a 1 player team. Shame Shame Welcom back Hotlanta. The lukewarm, halfway supportive Hotlanta was kinda getting on my nerves. This team is much more mentally tough than its fan base. I'm sure someone will start a "we must beat the Pacers" thread before Friday. Losing 2 in a row, especially on the road, doesn't phase this team one bit. They've been getting those games back all year. BTW, The entire SE division plus Indiana lost tonigt. We're dropped all the way to 5th in the east. Go crazy folks !!

Quote: That half shows why the Hawks are a legit team. The offense was a train wreck but thanks to defense and foul shots (two things that can be done well consistently) they have a 1 pt lead. I agree. I love the way this team just grinds everything out when things don't go their way. It's the mental toughness of this team that impresses me the most this year.

Quote: Its annoying that Chill gets 'penalized' for making a lot of putbacks and dunks. This is what you want guys to do: MAKE EASY SHOTS. I agree. It's definitely annoying. It's like people think that Chill is some scrub or something. Yes, he can't create his own jumper, but he routinely creates his own shot by driving all the way to the hole. At least he doesn't trry to do something he can't. And he can draw fouls. Players like that stay around in this league for a long time. Ask Ruben Patterson. Chill for Anthony Parker? For Pietrus? No way in hell. Those are the type of players you trade Zaza for, not a 6th man of the year candiate for.

Go look at Hollinger's PER stars. The have Chill under the SG category, so click on that to see how he ranks against the other SGs Overall, his PER ranks 31st, with a PER over 16. ( there are a lot of SFs in this grouping for some reason. A lot of those hybrid 2/3 guys like JJ and Lebron. ) If you click on FG%, it'll group them by what he shoots from the field. He's #1 at just under 57%. Total Shot %? He's #2, at just under 65%, which is ridiculous for a SG/SF. Free throws? He's top 10, and shoots over 90%. Rebounding? He's top 10 That's versatlity my friend. Instead, you want to give all of that up, for a guy that might make 4 threes in one game, and might make a total of 4 threes in the next 3 games after that? Sorry, I'll definitely pass on that. I'll never understand the obsession of acquirng some other teams mediocre player, thinking that the new player will help us more than the good player we gave up. in the East, Childress starts at the 2 or 3 in Philly, New York, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Charlotte, and Miami. He's the 6th man just about everywhere else.

Quote: Methinks you underestimate the versatility and athleticism of several of the players on that list, in addition to the usual overrating of Childress' offensive contributions. Outside of offensive rebounds and putbacks, Childress does nothing on offense that can't be easily replaced. Can't easily be replaced? Wow. Chill is so underrated by the majority of this fan base. The fact that he gets offensive rebounds, on a team that routinely struggles in games to secure them, is almost reason enough alone to keep Chill. Offensive rebounds means extra possessions. And Chill is a better slasher/penetrator than 75% on that list. The vast majority of the guys on your list are VERY streaky shooters. Not only that, most are one-dimensional, or at the most, two-dmesional players. That's why most of those guys ride the bench, instead of being a starter. In football terms, Chill might be what Troy Brown used t be for the Patriots. He didn't do one thing great, he just did a lot of ish good. I've always maintaned that if our young guys like Smoove, Marvin, or Chill were ever traded, that they be traded for very skilled vets that can make an immeadiate impace, that also may have worn out ther welcome on another team ( Gasol, J. O'Neal, etc ) What you don't do, is trade them for one-dimensonal scrubs, to so-call balance out your team. Caron Butler for Kwame Brown comes to mind. Put Chill on any of those teams to replace the player we'd get, ans Chill either automtically becomes the starter, or the 6th man. I bet LeBron would love to have Chill, in place of Damon Jones. Quote: You absolutely MUST add a 3 pt. threat to the rotation, or JJ will continue to be double-teamed for the foreseeable future. With JJ and Marvin manning the wing positions for the next three years at a minimum, there's no real spot on this team for a wing who can't shoot from the perimeter. Or, you could trade Chill for a legt low post threat, that can pass out of double teams to JJ, so that HE can take the 3. What is Chill shooting from 3 this year, by the way? I need to look that up right quick.

Quote: Under normal circumstances, trading Childress alone gives you the following options for wings who have averaged at least 35% on 3's over the previous two seasons: Kyle Korver Anthony Parker Mickael Pietrus* Rasual Butler* James Posey Michael Finley* Matt Barnes* James Jones* Damien Wilkins* And for guards: Steve Blake* Damon Jones Chris Duhon Charlie Bell *Indicates WC team Good Lord. There's no way I'd trade Chill for any of those guys, just to add a guy that may hit one or two 3's a game. Give me the versatlity of Chill, over any of those guys. ugh @ that list !!!

The reason why this is a bad deal, is because Miller might be a solid contributor for only the rest of this year. By next year or 2009, it's no telling how bad of a player he'd be. Brad would be our version of Ben Wallace with his rapidly declining play and huge contract. Better yet, he might be the 21st century version of Jon Koncac. On our team, Brad wouldn't get the offensive opportunites here that he's getting in Sac-Town. If he were 4 years younger and made 20 million over the next 3 years, then maybe. Honestly, this is the type of deal that a team that was just a role playing center away from competing for a title, would make. A young team looking to just make the playoffs, without any other major expectations this year, probably shouldn't make this move.

Quote: Please don't flatter yourself. 3 of the top 4 threads I mentioned had very little to do with Diesel. Still.. no response on that point. OK . . I'll respond. 3 of the top 4 threads had very little to do wth Diesel, showing that he was at least trying to be somewhat objective in making his top 10 list. Quote: Moreover, if we take your list. I'm probably just as prominent (if not more) on the list of subjects you pointed out than the ones I did. True. The one glaring difference being that you only started one of the threads in the top 10 most replied threads, instead 4 of them in your top 10. Quote: But of course, Northcyde will not mention that in his attempt to villify. I will still deny villification. Saying that your top 10 list probably included threads that you were more prominent in, is not villification. If may not be entirely true, but it is far from a lie, and has a lot of truth to it. Quote: It's like trying to take God out of the world... You can ban him from schools and courthouses and even try to take him off of money...... but the first time something happens, who are you going to look to? While I agree with you on the God commet, this is nothing like that. Villificaton would be me constantly calling you out about your erroneous opinion about Yi and Horford, and who would be best for the Hawks. I try to only state facts in most of my posts that aren't strictly opinions of mine. That's why I posted an alternative top 10 list. On this point, I will admit that I was 30% wrong and 70% right. LOL Diesel, you love being a villian on this board. You know that people are higly sensitve about Marvin, yet, you find so many creative ways to downgrade him and his importance to the Hawks. If you feel villified, you now know how it must feel to be Marvin Williams. He wakes up every day, knowing that 50% of the fan base wishes Paul or Deron was here, instead of him. And even when he steadily improves game after game, he still can only get lukewarm love from the fans that long for Paul or Deron. 2.5 years here, and he's still viewed as one of the main reasons why we haven't reached the next level. That's true villification right there.

Quote: I wasn't going to say anything but I believe it needs to be pointed out that this is more villification. Northcyde says that my list is IHO me picking where I was most prominent in... - 4 of those threads you started. - 1 of those threads was in direct response by exodus to the Marvin v. Chillz issue - and we all know how you feel about Sothron and his threads So it's safe to say that these subjects definitely had your interest, more than other subjects that may have rendered more responses. LOL . . the Bonds thread was in the 'Other Sports' section, yet, it makes your top 10? Quote: Damn Northcyde... My making one post in these threads means that IYO i'm most prominent? Damn... I must have some power to be most prominent with 1 post. Or maybe you're just full of sht! . Maybe I am full of ka-ka. Or maybe, like I pointed out, that most of those topics you listed were definitely of interest to you. And you did start 4 of the threads that made your top 10. Villification? LOL Just keen observation on my part.

Quote: 1) Watch Vegas SL games online: See Yi Suck Live! - gsuteke - 266 replies This thread actually has 281 replies.

Quote: Just ask that before next year, you show me how to find the reply data. Easy. Just click on "collapse" to view the post list by threads only. Once you do that, you'll see the threads, the number of views, and the number of replies each thread has. Click on "reply". Once you do that, it'll group the threads from most to least, in the reply category. It's similar to how one would look to see a particular NBA team stat in a certain category on espn.com. Doing this saves you a lot of time. Obviously, most of the high reply threads are under the game threads started by gsuteke.

vWhen you actually look back on 2007, these were the hot topics. These are the top 10 threads of 2007, based solely on replies. Game threads, because they tend to get the most responses, will be omitted. The one game thread I will include though, also happens to be the most responded to thread in Hawksquawk history. Congrats gsuteke for the Thread of the Year. 1) Watch Vegas SL games online: See Yi Suck Live! - gsuteke - 266 replies This thread started by gsuteke during the summer, showed us first hand that we avoided a potential disaster by passing on Yi with the 3rd pick. Yi might still have a decent NBA career, but it's obvious that Horford was definitely the right choice. Just the title of the thread makes it top 10 worthy. 2) Convince Me That Horfrd Can Be Our Center - jdu00743 - 227 replies This is probably the topic of the year, seeing that Horford's ability or inability to play center could directy affect the success of the 07 - 08 season. So far, so good for Horford and the Hawks. 3) What Has The JJ Trade Netted Us? - gsuteke - 187 replies Interesting thread that evaulates the impact that JJ, Diaw, and the draft picks we gave up, has impacted the Hawks. It'll be interesting to see what people think of this subject, now that we're playing .500 ball. 4) Finally Some PTS in the Paint Stats - exodus - 177 replies Our ineptness in the paint is explored by exodus. Like most Hawksquawk threads with a lot of posts, the thread strays into many tangents relating to the subject. 5) Crittenton in the Draft - CBAreject - 169 replies Everybody had their favorite PG for the Hawks to take before the draft. The case for and against Critt is made here. 6) Is the Prejudce on Yi Starting to Lift? - Diesel - 160 replies Yi was definitely a hot topic in 2007. And of course, Diesel was one of Yi's biggest supporters. Interesting to see what some of you thought then about Yi, and how he could fit with the Hawks. 7) Latest Information - Sothron - 133 replies Sothron was definitely "the man" in June, with his insider information about the upcoming 2007 NBA draft. And the Squawk was definitely interested in what he had to say. 8) For All Those Worried About the Lack of Extensions - mrHonline - 132 replies mrHonline tries to calm the fears of Squawkers on the issue of extending Josh Smith. Of course, it didn't work, fearing that teams will steal Smith away with a lucrative RFA offer next summer. Others questioned whether Smith deserved an extension in the first place. 9) Latest Information ( long ) - Sothron - 131 replies Sothron's informative post just days before the draft drew just as much intrest, as it did skepticism. The vagueness of the long post brought about serious questions about his credibility as an insider. 10) Decision Tree Branches Regarding Horford - Walter - 127 replies Where is Horford best suited to play, and how does that affect the decision making of what the Hawks should do with other players? Walter's thread is a derivative if Horford can play the 5. But if he can play the 4 better, what should we do? A lot of interesting opinons on this subject.

LOL . . you just love to stir the pot. It's too bad technology isn't advanced enough for the two of you to have a "virtual reality" fight in The Octagon. Or ish, set up a real octagon and let you two really go at it. Question is: which one of you would cheat, grab a kendo stick, and beat the hell out of your opponent first.

I think D picked the threads that he was more prominent in. How does not one of all those "tank or no tank" threads not crack the top 10? I agree . . you deserve at least one of your game threads in the top 10. What would be more interesting to see, are which threads ( outside of your game threads, which routinely run 1 - 3 pages long ) received the most posts period. That would be more indicative of which topics were the biggest in 2007.

Zaza's name is on the ballot too . . .

It takes a big man to do what you just did. People almost never admit that they're wrong on this site, even when it is obvious. Give Nicholas27 his props for being dead on the money with his December prediction.

It's New Year's Eve. 80% of Hawksquawk is probably drunk or almost there right now. I'm out at the club, but not drinking. I liked what you said about Salim. If he'd just do like Marvin, and concentrate more on his midrange game, while not forcing the 3, he'd be a much better player right now, and seeing playing time. His floater when he goes to the hole is nice. But I think Salim is a lost cause for us. Everytime he gets a chance to really contrbute when somebody goes down, he just take advantage of it.

Quote: He is basically a poor man's Al Harrington, who he was most compared to during the draft. Yep you're right. Casue Al was excellent in his 3rd year as the #3 option behind Reggie and Jermaine.

LOL . . . poor Marvin and Chill. They can't catch a break from our schizophrenic fan base. One loss, and the complaining picks up like both players are regressing. (( crying )) But they aren't all-stars !! I won't be happy until they both are all-stars !! (( /crying )) If we make the playoffs, and win a few games, people are going to be drooling over our players more than ever. It took JJ 5 years to develop into the player he is now. Some guys develop rapidly. Most don't. If they're steadily improving, what's the damn problem?

Quote: I have the same question. It's got to include Za, Chill and Lue? Shelden? He make 13.7 mil so that's got to include several of our players. That's the deal someone suggested in the comments in that link that MemphisX provided. But get this . . .they said Zaza, Chill, Lue, Shelden, and Wright, for Gasol, Lowry and Navarro. That's an interesting deal on the Memphis end because they'd take on guys whose contracts expire either this year or next year. They definitely wouldn't re-sign Zaza after the 09 season. And they'd definitey let Lue and Wright fall off the books. So the only real decisions they'd have to make, are with Chill in the summer of 2008 and Shelden in 2009. They could either keep one or both of them, or not match any offer sheet for them. In essence, it's a potential salary dump with a team from the East that they'll only see twice a year. And it puts them in positon to make a run at a restricted free agent . . . like a Smoove or Emeka Okafor. I could definitey see a team like them going all out for either of those guys, just for their shotblocking, athleticsm, and rebounding. Smoove would probably be the target, and we'd be compelled to match the offer if we make the playoffs ad Smoove plays well. For us, Gasol provides a very good low post/midrange threat on the frontline, Lowry the extra PG to go along wit Acie, and Navarro the possible 3-point threat off the bench. Adding those contracts, plus re-signing Smoove, probably puts us at or over the cap ( I think ). But I'm perfectly OK with that. Adding a big like Gasol, without losing Smoove, takes this team to another level. You replace Zaza and Shell with Gasol. Definitey an upgrade. Losng Chill will hurt, but the blow is softened by adding Lowry and Navarro. Lineup PG - AJ / Acie / Lowry / JJ G - JJ / West / Navarro / AJ or Acie / Salim F - Marvin / JJ / Smoove PF - Smoove / Horford / Marvin / Jones C - Gasol / Horford I bolded the 10 players that i think that Woody would use in the rotation. With this squad, JJ might have to play a little more at the 3, to compensate for the loss of Chill, which he did just fine when Chill was out. And because of that, he'd have to rebound more. Horford would go to the bench, but would still be vital to the frontline. He probably see his minutes decrease only slightly. He'd still play more center than PF. And he'd probably play more minutes than Gasol, to try to keep him less injury prone. In certain situatons, we could go "big" and put Smoove at SF, with Horford and Gasol alternating at the 4/5 spot. The obvious downside to this lineup, is that if one of the frontline guys went down, we'd HAVE to play a guy like Solo. And if something happened to JJ or Marvin, we wouldn't have the "luxury" of replacing them with Chill. If the Griz keep losing, ( they're beating the Spurs right now ) they're going to move Gasol. But it probably won't be until Feburary. Interesting deal for bot sides though.

Quote: Quote: Hawks shoUld ask the nba to review this game. You really think the NBA gives a **** about the Hawks. They really don't care about us. I tell you what though. If the Mavs keep missing FTs . . . LOL . . . great play by Law. Somebody just needs to get hot. This game reminds me so much of the game @ Denver last year. Damn. . . big 3 by Stackhouse. If he misses that, we could've cut it to 4.

Wow @ this game. We must be in Cameron Indoor Stadium. They get every touch foul. We get knocked down or run over, and can't get a call. LOL . . it's amazing that we're even down 13 instead of 33.