TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: I will say one thing - our interior players better start challenging inside more or Smoove will be off the bandwagon and I don't blame him a bit. If Zaza is gonna play crap defense then sit him. Isn't Smoove one of our interior players?

Quote: I am worried that the place will be empty on the day after xmas. I would go, but the shopping crowd has me scared. So you wouldn't go see the Hawks, if there were only 2,000 at the game? Scared that the crazed shopping crowd will have the roads packed and prevent you from going? Man, go to the game. Those are not acceptable excuses for not seeing a Hawk team that is playing their best basketball in 8 years. If I can drive 4.5 hours to see Hawk games, surely you that stay in ATL can make tonight's game if you stay in metro Atlanta. Go support your team.

Quote: There's an interesting theory getting floated by Bulls fans that this happened as the precursor to a big trade. It does seem that Skiles isn't exactly loved by Bulls players. Big trade? Who ar they gonna trade for? Eddy Curry? Isaiah would be like . . "I'll give you Curry for Deng and Nocioni" Bulls are screwed this year.

Quote: But still, Mike Woodson doesn't have this team with that killer instinct. WE open a double digit lead on teams, and we basically let them back in the game with questionable substitutions and the fact that Woodson doesn't know how to call a timeout early to stop the bleeding. But he's still improved. That's a characteristic that you can say that just about every NBA team has. Hence the phrase "everybody makes a run in the NBA". Last game, we go up 25 - 13 or something like that, with a little over 2 minutes to go in the 1st quarter. Woody says, "OK, I can take JJ out, maybe give him a nice rest, and bring him back in after the first madatory timeout in the 2nd quarter." LOL . . yeah right. Even with Marvin and Chill on the floor, the Wiz close the quarter on a 10 - 0 run, to cut the lead to 2 by the time the 2nd quarter starts. So is that "questionable" substituton by Woody? If our bench and starters can't even hold a 12 point lead for 3 minutes, what can Woody do? The only thing he can do . . . play JJ as many minutes as possible. LOL . . then people will complain that JJ is logging too many minutes and that Woody is wearing him out. Quote: I think he has a lot more control over this team than Mike Brown of the Cavs who I often compared Woody too If the Cavs don't make a trade, I think they're on the verge of a complete meltdown. They want to trade Larry Hughes. LOL . . I bet they do. Good luck with that one. Today might br the only time this year that I root for the Heat.

Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays to everyone. (( handing Woody his Christmas present . . . a "Mo-Fo, I Told You I'd Still Be The Coach At Christmas" t-shirt. )) He would laugh and say . . . Damn right !!

Speaking of Yi, he had a 29 point game the other night. I guess he will be Detlef Schremph after all in a few years. But the Bucks couldn't even defend the Phoenix Mercury, if they played them though. Michael Redd is pissed these days because of that. He'll be the next guy "crying" for help. As for this subject, the 2 choices for me have to be Horford and Smith, if I couldn't choose 'all of the above'. They're the defensive anchor of the team. Without either of those guys, we might not survive November and the confidence might be shot going into December. Smith's numbers in wins and losses are extremely telling.

Definitely a great and on point article about Marvin. He's been the model of consistency on this team. And unlike some of the other 3rd year guys, he hasn't regressed one bit. He's steadily getting better. I truly believe that he'd already be a 20 ppg scorer for this season, had it not been for the injury that took almost 20 games from him last season. Then it took him another month after that to get his rhythm back. When you go to 82games.com, and look at his shooting, you'll see where he's improved across the board. Ironcally, as of this date, he's taken the exact percentage of jumpers as shots, as he did last year, which is 69%. But instead of making 41.5% eFG on his jumpers, he's making 46% eFG on them. Last year, his biggest problem was finishing inside. This year, he's converting over 60% of the time on the inside. That's huge for him and this team. And he's drawing more fouls and getting to the line a lot more, with almost a 20% draw foul rate, which is damn near Wade-like. There's no reason to believe that this guy is going to level off right here. Once he develops a good ball move to free himself for a jumper, or a real good post move, the sky is definitely the limit for him. But even if he doesn't, he's still going to be close to a 20 ppg guy who can knock down 1/2 his shots. I'd love to see him develop a turnaround jumper when isolated in the post, that he also could knock down from 16 feet out, ala Karl Malone. A go-to scoring move like that when he has the ball in isolation, would turn him into an offensive scoring machine.

His rebounding only concerns me when Horford and Smith might be overmatched at the PF and C position. That's when I really want to see Marvin hit the boards. JJ too for that matter. We have 2 great rebounders in Horford and Smith. If they're rebounding well, it's going to be hard for anybody else to post higher rebounding numbers. Most teams don't have 3 guys that have rebound averages over 7 a game. Most teams have 2 guys, but not 3. But when Smoove and/or Horford get in foul trouble, I fully expect Marvin to hit the boards. Marvin is more of a finesse player, so he'll tend not to mix it up often. This is why it is good to have Childress. Chill is a scrapper who can get those hustle boards that Marvin doesn't get to. Right now, Marvin is a stabilizer . . . Chill is an energizer.

My thoughts exactly Boss. The past bad starts of the Bulls that they've overcome, couldn't save his job this year. It's amazing what expecations can do to a job. Woody would be a great contestant on Survivor. Skiles had to have cussed the owner out, to bring this about. To fire Skiles now, on CHRISTMAS EVE, indicates that something dramatic had to have happened. But to just fire him for the bad start, especially when you play in the East, is unbelievable. Maybe this is a result on not giving up Deng and Gordon, to get Kobe. Scott had a lot to do with that decision not to pull the trigger. Forget Woody, how about Isaiah lasting longer than Scott?

Quote: Well, I've been a fan of the Hawks for years, and the cheerleaders have sucked at least for the past 20 years. The girls come and go but the choreography never changes. LOL . . it's like a college pep band that's been playing the song "Louie, Louie" for years, still thinking that it's a crowd pleaser. Philips is a day-care center. So while the pic of Petrino would be hilarious, maybe a pic of Swiper off Dora the Explorer might get a louder response. "Swiper, no swiping."

On #6, I lumped in Phoenix with a team like the Clippers. I didn't quite mean to do that. The Clips were just cheap and didn't want to spend a lot of money. The Suns just don't want to have to go into luxury tax land, in order to win a title. That's why they'd even consider trading a guy like an Amare or a Marion, even though the are so important to the team. They're at championship level, but aren't willing to spend whatever it takes to bring home a title. The fact that they've sold the draft picks that we've given them so far, just to keep out of luxury tax land, shows you how they operate. Rondo on the Suns as a backup to Nash, would make them flat out scary. With Diaw, I guess they thought he was good enough to either replace Amare if he couldn't come back to form, or replace Marion after this year, if the Suns decided not to extend him. That's the only reason Diaw got his money. LOL . . now they would KILL to trade him.

Quote: We cannot afford to sign everyone to a long term extension. Some choices will inevitably have to be made. Question: What do we do? The way JS is playing, he will get 5 yrs/60 million. JJ is still a big cap hit. MW will command a nice extension (which he will deserve -- he is becomming a MAN). Al is probably a max player at some point. JC is worth a MLE. If Acie pans out then there is another 6 or 7 million at least when he comes up for extension. If we sign everyone then our cap is probably approaching 75 or 80 million. Just wondering what everyone thought. There are quite a few things you're not thinking about. 1) I think 75% - 80% of te NBA are already over the salary cap right now. Being over the cap is a fact of life, especially for the good teams in the NBA. Matter of fact, if you're NOT over the cap, you're probably not a goodd team, or you're in the middle of a rebuilding process. 2) And speaking of that, most playoff teams, with the exception of a few disasters like the Knicks, are over the cap. And the reason why they're over the cap, is because you have to pay to keep your developing young guys. And if you go the trade route, you have to pay in order to trade for a very good player to increase your talent. 3) The Hawks could sign EVERY ONE OF THESE GUYS, if they wanted to. They can match any offer, and keep them a Hawk for years, if they wanted. They own the Bird Rights to every single of our core guys. It all depends on what the owners want to pay to put a winning product on the floor, and if the people in the Atlanta area will routinely sell out Philips every night, to watch that winning product. If we're a 50+ win team that perennially makes noise in the playoffs, then we'd hope that this ownership group would keep this team together. 4) The NBA salary cap rises every year, by about 2 - 3 million a year. In a few years, the NBA salary cap could easily be around 65 million, with the luxury tax being somewhere in the mid to high-70 million range 5) And that leads me to this point: Being over the cap isn't necessarily a thing that a team is worried about. What they worry about, is being in luxury tax land. Most of your big market teams that rake in a lot of money, don't even worry about the luxury tax, as long as they put a perennial playoff and championship contending team out on the floor. That's why Boston didn't even blink to bring in 2 MAX money guys like KG and Allen to add with Pierce. 6) If you notice, the teams that really worry about going over the cap, are good teams that are rapidly in decline, but can't make a move in free agency to get a good player. ( i.e. - the Knicks, the Heat, the Sixers, the Hawks 4 years ago, etc. ) Or cheap owners that don't want to spend money to bring in a winner in the first place. ( i.e. - the Suns ), the Clippers ( back in the day ), the Hawks ( because of the ownership issue ), etc. 7) BK has the salary structure spaced out so that salary issues can easily be dealt with. - Smoove and Chill in summer of 2008. And yes, we can easily re-sign both guys, contrary to popular belief. - Marvin in summer of 2009 ( or if they wanted to let him be a RFA and let the market set his worth like they did with Smoove and Chill, then re-sign him ), summer of 2010 - Shelden in summer of 2009 ( who may very well be let go if he doesn't progress as a player. The Hawks may not pick up the team option after next season ) - JJ in summer of 2010 as an unrestricted FA ( who may command real big money by then if he continues to improve. But his situaton is definitely going to depend on how good of a team we are, and if guys like Marvin, Smoove, or Horford haven't overtaken him as our best player. The decison on him might be made during the 2009-10 season. Believe it or not, JJ could be the one that isn't with the Hawks 3 years from now, not the young guys. ) - Horford and Law in summer of 2010, or they can let them become RFAs in summer of 2011. 8) Signing our core guys means that guys 8 - 15 on the Hawks, will be made up of cheap vets or cheap young talent. And the better we are, the lower our future draft picks will cost us. Or, we can always sell off our picks like Dallas and Phoenix does. 9) Because a lot of teams are over the cap, that means that teams aren't necessarily going to throw big money to get our guys, unless they are absolutey convinced that those guys can be impact players on their squad. Chill won't get over the MLE and Smoove probably won't get a deal over the 5yr - 60mil that you stated he may get, because of this. I think it's been said on this board that Philly is the only team that could make a major play at Smoove this summer. Everybody else is either cap strapped, or have to sign their own young guys. Even Philly has to make a decision on Iggy. 10) The way it looks now, we are going to have 10+ million fall off the books this summer, assuming that AJ isn't re-signed for a Lue-like deal. Hopefully Speedy decides to retire, to help us out even more. And with AJ, we might be the only team wanting him by next summer. So the core could stay the same, but the role players will constantly change. OK, that may be more than a few things you overlooked.

Quote: He was a threat to blow that game last night. The Hawks would play well until he came in and kept turning the ball over allowing Washington to start taking control of the game. That's why I've always called him "Turnover" Pachulia. Sounds like a Taco Bell item. (( ordering )) "I'd like a Gordita, 2 Chalupas, and a Turnover Pachulia to go."

What's worse, is that he wanted to do all of this, based on how everyone perceives us in the media. (( Bleep )) the media! LOL @ that perfect Atlanta team. What 8 year old came up wit that? You could probably do something like that for every team in the league.

JJ on Smoove's 3: "He was wide open, so I had to kick it to him . . . . I believe he can make that shot, and he did." That's an unbelievable quote by our captain about easily our worst perimeter shooter. For him to have confidence in Smoove in that situation, speaks volumes about not only Smoove as a fearless shooter, but also about JJ as a leader. As hot as JJ was, he passes up his own shot, to pass to an open Smoove for 3? Unbelievable. That's truly "playing the right way". Having said that, I don't want Smoove playing like Rasheed. I want him playing like Shawn Kemp. Nice that he hit the 3, but I'd rather see him becoming a feared dunker in traffic. Don't shoot the 3, dunk on Shaq's head instead.

Quote: At the end of whatever NBA2night has turned into last night as the show was ending. They had Joe going up for top performer of the night, as well. LOL . . glad to hear Greg come around to us, seeing that he picked us dead last at the beginning of the season. I think he was the only ESPN guy to pick us last.

Quote: That is some BS!!!!! Officials make mistakes all the time!! Every game in fact. And yes Miami's staff should have caught that when it happened. They didn't take the win away from the Patriots this year after the whole cheating thing. They just made them pay money....but this wasn't Atlanta's doing it was the officials mistake. If anything they should fine the officials or the league for not getting it right. But even that is a stretch. LOL . . . how the tables have turned for the Heat. I don't believe that the Heat intend on having the game replayed. Something like that has never happened in the history of basketball, based on a miscalculation of points or fouls. But they do want someone suspended or fired over this. This the ultimate act of desperation we see here. If any team in history ever had a beef about replaying a game because of an error by an official, it would have to be Missouri in that "5th down" game. Now that's a game that a team can bytch about. And even in that game, the Missouri coach didn't immediately complain that the other team got an extra down. I know if JJ was called for his 6th foul, but he really only had 5, Woody, or someone on that damn staff better throw a damn fit. And most of the time, a player knows how many fouls he has at all times. So JJ better throw a damn fit too. Shaq knew he had 6. That's why he didn't cry about it. Riley just needs to resign and save himself the embarassment of going through this season. They aren't going to miraculously get better, and sneak into the playoffs. They'd have to win almost 65% - 70% of their ballgames now, just to sneak in the playoffs. If they did replay the game, advantage Heat. Because they'd probably replay the game at the beginning of the next Heat game in ATL. All of the emotion from the players, coaches, and especially the fans, would completely be gone. And most importantly, Shaq would be totally fresh, and all he'd have to do is play hard for about 30 seconds. A block or a key rebound, could turn the tide of that game. And if we lost, we'd have to turn right back around and play a full game, knowing that we'd just lost a game. I need to check RealGM, and see what the Heat fans think of all of this.

Quote: Marvin draws so many fouls and it is so critical to have a guy that knocks down every open look he gets. I'll back this statement up. This is how good Marvin is at drawing fouls. Smoove gets to the foul line so much, that I thought Smoove easily gets to the line more than Marvin. And the raw numbers indicate that. But this is why 82games.com is such a cool site, especially when you know what you're looking at and what to look for. They have a stat on there called Draw Foul %. It basically adds the number of shooting fouls a player draws, to the number of field goal attempts you take. Then you divide that total number by the amount of shooting fouls you draw. It makes up for the fact that shot attempts aren't counted when you get fouled, but miss the shot. So say like Marvin last night. He only took 12 shots. But he drew a shooting foul I think 4 times. So that's 12 + 4 = 16 scoring chances. 4 drawn shooting fouls / 16 scoring chances = 25% draw foul %. 25% is EXCELLENT. How do I know that? Because the current "King of drawing a foul" ( even questionable fouls ) Dwyane Wade, has a draw foul % number over 21%. When I saw that, I wanted to see how the other players in the league stacked up against D-Wade. I checked most of the top wing players, some of the Hawks, and guys who are known for gettng to the line. JJ was a little under 9%, which isn't surprising. The closest guy to D-Wade that I saw, was Corey Maggette, who had a number just under 20%. Smoove? Just under 19% Marvin? A little over 19% From the guys I checked, Marvin was #3 in drawing a foul. Better at it than Kobe, Lebron, T-Mac, Boozer, Melo, and just about every other SF or hybrid PF in the league. Anything over 15%, is good in my opinion. The difference between a guy like Maggette and a guy like Marvin, is that Marvin is a much better jumpshooter, while Corey is more aggressive in going to the hole. I don't think Maggette gets any better than what he is right now, because of his jumpshooting. And the difference in Marvin and a Melo, is that Melo has an array of offesive moves, including a deep perimeter game, that he can go to that Marvin doesn't have yet. So if Marvin adds another element to his game, like a go-to move in the post, and gets a little more assertive as a player, he could really become a top offensive player in a few years. And if he continues to limit the number of bad outside shots he takes, Smoove could be the forward equivalent of D-Wade, with a draw foul % of over 20%. Definitely a nice compliment to each other.

Quote: I agree with your statement that most of Marvin's points were on assisted shots. I can't believe people would argue against that. However, Marvin being better than Rice... Hold on. The Rice that played for the Hornets/Heat was a several time allstar and team leader. That guy could kill a defense on his own. He had a three point shot and a post up game (when needed). Marvin and Rice are progressing at almost the exact same rate. Rice's year 1 and year 2 numbers, are pretty similar to Marvin's year 2 and current year 3 numbers. And Marvin shoots a higher percentage from the field. And Marvin right now is already better at getting to the line. The fatal mistake that you keep making about Marvin, is that you truly think that he can't add more things to his game as a player. Last year, his major problem was finishing on the inside and getting his shot blocked. That's not even close to being an issue this year. His defense last year was suspect. This year, he's solid defensively. Last year, he wasn't nearly aggressive enough. This year, that's less and less of an issue and it's making him a better player. There is a distinct pattern developing with this kid that you either fail to see, or don't want to admit to seeing. You got this "Tim Thomas" image of Marvin in your mind, that you can't get rid of. If Marvin was Denzel in the movie "Training Day", he'd tell you "TIM THOMAS . . . AINT'GOT S**T ON ME!!" Rice, while a tremendous 3 point shooter in college, didn't exactly come into the NBA bombing away from 3. He barely took over 2 threes a game in his 2nd year. It wasn't until year 3, that Rice really started to become a prolific shooter from both 2 and 3-point range. And he didn't make an all-star team until his 6th or 7th year in the league, even though he was starting to become really good during his 3rd year. So while Marvin is becoming the master of the 18 - 22 foot jumpshot, don't think for one minute that either his long range shooting, or his post game, will become the next focus for him. The guy's work ethic should never come into question anymore. He'll add one or both of those elements to his game, within the next 2 years. The best thing that can happen to him this year, is that we make the playoffs, and he gets recognized as being a key contributor. That will motivate him to become even better as a player, much like it did T-Mac and JJ when they were complimentary players.

Quote: So, are you saying Marvin doesn't knock down the shots consistently? Maybe we are watching a different player. Just FYI, because JJ and Marvin are huge to this team, Marvin will not have many times when he's on the floor WITHOUT JJ. And the fact that Marvin takes the ball to the hole, and now often either finishes, gets fouled, or both, I wouldnt be too upset if he got more touches. He rarely takes more than 10-12 shots in a game and still puts up 17ppg...and he has hit 20+ 5 of 6 games and 4 straight. We all know JJ is the man on this team. But, and a big BUT, if he is off, why not let Smoove, Horf, Marvin, etc. pick up some slack? JJ doesn't need to be on his game now all the time for us to win. It seems that every night we have guys stepping up and that means were less reliant on JJ having a big night. And that is great for this basketball team. I love the way Marvn is playing. The "shot" that I'm talking about, is a jumper that he creates for himself. Over 80% of Marvin's jumpers are via assists. There's nothing wrong with that, seeing how high a percentage he shoots. To me, he's playing like a Glen Rice right now. But there's a difference in a Glen Rice, and a Mitch Richmond. Glen was a great shooter, who was better at catching and shooting, than creating for himself. Mitch could catch and shoot, but was a great creator of his own jumper as well. This is how I see Marvin and JJ. I think Marvin can be better than Rice though, because he can get to the line, as well as hit the jumper as a high percentage. But JJ is the creator. When Marvin becomes a better creator, is when you'll really see this guy explode. If he adds a great post move, or a nice dribble pull-up to his offensive game, he's going to be almost impossible to hold. But right now, he doesn't have that. And because he doesn't have that, he has to play alongside a guy like JJ that can either draw all the attention, or be able to get Marvin the ball in the right spots. It's a good reason why JJ has to play 40+ minutes a night. Because we don't have that 2nd creator on this team that can keep the offense going when he's out the game. If we're playing D, we can score and survive without JJ on the floor. But most of the time, we struggle offensively when JJ sits. LOL . . . then Woody panics, and has to get him right back in the game. JJ played, what, 44 or so minutes tonight? I think Marvin was on the floor when JJ was out. What did the Hawks do?

Quote: Lets put it this way, Do you think that Marvin deserves more than 6 or 7 shots in the 1st half or 12 for the game? He deserves more shots. And he'll get them as soon as he's able to create his own jumper and knock the shot down consistently. But I don't want JJ passing up shots that he normally make either. If Marvin can prove that he can be a main scoring option WITHOUT JJ on the floor wth him, you'll see his shot attempts rise. And when he's able to do that, you'll also see JJ's minutes decrease. Marvin is a very good complimentary player to JJ. Not the other way around.

Quote: Dude, he was forcing up shots in the first half!!!!! And plus Marvin could miss and didn't see the ball but 7 or 8 times in the 1st half. I have a problem with that! What star player doesn't force up shots? The shots he missed, he can make on occasion. All of his misses in the 1st half weren't forced shots. He had some good looks at the basket that he missed too. This is constant with you though. You act like he's JJ Redick or somebody, and is only supposed to shoot when completely open. The fact that he had 5 dimes in the first half, proves that he was passing the ball.

Quote: Quote: huge 3 by Smoove, damn Marvin fouled out. He had one hell of a game though Joe played like an all star in the 4th quarter! It's hilarious to see you bytch and complain about JJ shooting the ball poorly for a half and telling him to pass ( even though he had 16 points and 5 assists at halftime ) . . . then ride his sack when he scores 13 or 14 points in the 4th. JJ can't even go through an 8 minute cold stretch, without you complaining. like another poster said . . . your best player is supposed to take the most shots. You act like JJ isn't our best player.

Quote: If Zo had not had the kidney problems he would be a first ballot guy. I agree that he is not in the NBA wing but his body of work overall would include him in the general HOF. He brought his lunchpail every game. I'm not really sure why the kidney transplant prevented him from getting back to his previous level. Although, that's probably a lot more traumatic on the body than I can fathom. Zo was an 8-time all-star. 1st team all-NBA one year. His teams almost always won and made noise in the playoffs. The centers he played against, Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, and Robinson are all going to the Basketball HOF. If there were a separate NBA HOF, I don't see how you could keep him out. He's arguably better than Ewing.

Quote: As I look at the Hawks as compared to some of the teams with whom we are competing for a playoff spot, I am encouraged. It seems like Cle lives and dies with Lebron. NJ lives and dies with JKidd. Toronto cannot succeed w/o Bosh. The hawks, however, seem to have a more diverse set of weapons. JJ can stink and we can still win. We seem to have a greater margin of error. That is especially true since Marvin is becomming a MAN before our very eyes. Josh lights it up from time to time. AJ and Al seem to provide some real stability. Just my random musings. Thanx for listening. Actually, we live and die with JJ as well. When you look at our games, we usually get a victory when JJ accounts for 32 or more Hawks points ( combination of actual points and points off of assists ). So even when JJ had those 7 - 19 FG nights for 18 points, if he also got 5 - 7 assists, we were usually in the game with a chance to win. Having said that, I think our defense on most nights, separates us from those teams you mentioned. So you're right. We do have a greater margin of error. But like those other teams, we can't afford to lose JJ for about a week or two.