TheNorthCydeRises

You guys get way too excited over a Tim Thomas clone.

Just to let you know, Kinsey put up decent numbers late last year, playing a scoring PG for Memphis. He was dang near their go-to-guy in some games Salim and Shelden also put up good numbers late last year, which should keep what Kinsey dd in perspective. These days, Kinsey can barely get on the floor. Chill is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Kinsey as a player. Add Kinsey to the Hawks, and he still doesn't get on the floor here, because his defense is terrible. Woody would still play Mario over Kinsey, even if Chill wasn't here.

Quote: Quote: I like Lue; if for nothing else he does look to shoot. Sometimes that is exactly what we need. That's exactly what Giricek would do, but he'd do it in a way that reduces JJ's minutes from 48/game to 40/game. Jazz fans' claim he's not THAT bad a man defender either. Basically, Sloan won't play him. LOL . . that was messed up what Sloan did to Gordon tonight. I would've loved to be in that huddle and heard what was exactly said. Jerry was like "GTFOH . . go on. GIT !!!"

Quote: Quote: In a game when Shaq causing foul troubles for all of our bigs. Why can't we get solo some pt. If for no other reason but to suck up some of the fouls. Am I missing something is Solo that bad? Is it just me, or are Atlanta sports fans dumber than most other teams fan bases? The irony of this statement. (( looking at your sig ))

Quote: I really believe the Hawks should send Solomon to the D-League just so he can play some and gain some confidence. I understand that players can develop in practice, but I think Solomon needs some meaningful time on the floor and will only get it in the D-League. I agree. It's almost like BK is hiding Solo or something.

Player wise, this is Joe Johnson's team. Never get that twisted. Even AJ would tell you that. It's JJ's multitude of talents that enable our guys to go one on one against their man. It also enables AJ to get those open looks that he gets. AJ is doing what all veteran PGs should do with a young team. He's leading on the court and with his mouth. AJ is the Jon Kitna of the Hawks. He's a good enough guy to lead, direct, and cheer people on. But overall, his talent and skill isn't good enough for you to depend on him on a nigtly basis. And because of that, he will end up breaking your heart at times. View AJ as Kitna, and Law as Carson Palmer. Kit did a good job in getting the Bengals to get out of their losing mindset. And he taught Palmer a lot about being mentally tough. But Kit's talent could only get the Bengals so far. It took for Carson to take control, for the Bengals to get over the hump. Injuries killed us this year. Tim Duncan isn't a vocal guy. But there is no doubt that the Spurs are his team. Same goes with JJ.

This isn't the type of game to play Solomon in, unless absolutely necessary. Horford, Smith, Zaza, Shelden and Lorenzen are our "bigs". Horford's presence pretty much renders Solo useless. I know people love his shot blocking ability, but that's really all he can do. And he only does that when coming to help somebody. One of the better games I saw Solo play last year, was the loss to Phoenix. He was active and could showcase what he could do, because the game was going so fast. In that type of game, I'd rather see Solo than Lorenzen. But against a bruiser like Shaq, he should only play if necessary. The guy is a hacker, pure and simple. His nickname should be "the Hatchet". (( announcer )) "Hatchet" Jones with foul, and his man has a 5-inch gash on his shoulder

Orlando have games with Houston, Utah, and Boston in their next 3 games. So you're right. This could get real interesting real quick.

LOL . . . where are the paragraph breaks. I hope this isn't being seen as one big azz paragraph. It looked right in the preview. Damn PDA.

Just thougt I'd break up all of the negative Chill v Marvin talk. There is defnitely a bigger issue to be talking about.

We're looking at it again. The "Berlin Wall" for these current group of Hawks. It's the thing that is probably keeping us from really taking off as a team. Getting ABOVE .500 For the schizophrenic fan base, it's a mark that we all look at to really judge if we really do have the potential to be a good team and make the playoffs. Getting above .500 this "late" in the season would be an early Christmas present and the ultimate ray of hope. To the players, especially to the 2 - 4 year guys who have been here for all the losing, it's probably an even more important mark to reach. They're in unchartered waters right now. They've never experienced this. For the rookies, it's huge, because they don't have to first rid themseves of a losing mindset, in order to become better and more confident players. Portland is absolutely on fire right now. I believe it's an 8-game win streak right now. They've gone from a potentially 34-win season without Oden, to a legit playoff threat. And you can see when they step out on the court these days, that they EXPECT to win . . not hope or stay close enough to win. They're 13 - 12 right now. I think tonight's game is the biggest game of this franchise in 8 years. This game won't derail the season if we lose, but it will be a huge psychological weight lifted off the franchise, if we win. We play the team that usually has a crowd advantage in our own building, in Miami. Even with the win over them this year, and even with them struggling, they represent the "Berlin Wall" to us, more than any other team in the league. Tonight, 1/2 of Philips will probably initally cheer for D-Wade and Shaq, like they always do. But this young team has the ability to quickly turn this game into a true home court advantage. Beating the Heat tonight means . . . - we're 5 - 1 vs the Southeast, with 4 wins over the 2 teams that have given us the most trouble over the past 3 years ( MIA & CHAR ). - we've won 10 of our last 15 games, something this team hasn't done in a long time, and never in Woody's tenure as coach. - it's a chance to totally win over this fan base and create a buzz about the Hawks in ATL. - and most important . . we're above .500 after 25 games, for the first time in 8 years. For a franchise that has been the butt of jokes for almost a decade, those are huge accomplishments. Getting above .500 may even have them believing that they're a really good team. And when players actually start believing this, it translates into more hustle and desire to win on the court, just like it has in Portland.

Quote: Damn the world is f up. He got robbed AGAIN? That's 2 times in 3 days. Candace needs to buy one of Vick's pit bulls for Shelden for Christmas. or this is 48 hour old news that has already been discussed.

If Okur is out, I wonder if Sloan will start Milsap? If he does, Al and Smoove will really have to fight hard on the boards tonight.

LOL @ "pour out a little liquor to our crippled homie". I can hear Tupac rappin about Walter right now. I know you stressed, cause you can't rest, laying in bed/ Marvin knockin' down them jumpers, and it's turning you red/ But I ain't mad at cha homie, you just heal up quicker/ Go to Strokers and I'll buy you a stripper . . . Pour out a little liquor

Quote: I think they are two different players and bring two different elements to the team. I agree. They are equal in my eyes right now. Marvin is the constant performer . . Chill is the energizer. They're like our version of Ford and Calderon. Two different styles, but almost equal impact on a game, if they both got equal minutes. It's a good luxury to have both Chill and Marvin.

3 teams for me. I bleed U of Tennessee orange first and foremost. That's my alma mater and no team comes before them. Nice to know that we don't have to worry about Kentucky this year, with Tubby gone. The hometown school here in Clarksville, is Austin Peay State University. I always support them, unless they play the Vols. And growing up, I grew attatched to another "orange" team . . . . the Syracuse Orange. I used to even try to play like Sherman Douglas, minus the bad free throw shooting. I think more people might hate the Tar Heels on here, than like them.

Quote: It seems that Orlando is the fraud I thought they were and are coming back to the pack. We have a good opportunity to make a move but we need a 3-4 game win streak. I was watching that game. Rashard Lewis didn't play, and Howard was dominant ( 31 and 20 ). But Memphis beat them without Pau Gasol. Memphis is athletic like we are. And it's becoming obvious that Orlando can't handle athletic teams. Rudy Gay ate them alive last night. And Mike Miller might as well have been Reggie Miller. If we could win another 8 out of 12, that would put us at 19 - 16. It would be interesting to see what record Orlando would have after 12 more games. I'd bet that they'd be like 22 - 14 or somewhere around that. I won't call them a fraud. But I kind of agree with you and say that they're not nearly as good as they've looked so far.

Quote: Based on what we have seen from them so far, they were dead on about Francis, Artest and Randolph. Iverson has been better than ever in Denver, but one of the two biggest concerns with him (age) wasn't this year but two years or so down the line when our players are starting into their primes so that will be a wait and see. Gasol is sucking this year but clearly has had the most support of these guys. I just can't believe you are bashing people for not wanting Francis!!!! That is like bashing people for thinking Michael Olowkandi shouldn't have been a #1 pick. Trading for Zack means that Horford and maybe Smoove or Law probably isn't here. He'd definitely be a great 2nd option scorer for us, but that means we'd have to go extremely small on the frontline. So I know why we didn't do that. Zack isn't the reason why NY still can't win though. Nah, I'm not bashing people for not wanting Steve. It's just interesting that the board almost fiends for guys like Ridnour and Dalembert, when they've done nothing in this league. Like those guys could really be impact players for us. Both of those guys are more flawed and less skilled. They're just cheaper. LOL . . . Franchise wasn't that bad, at the time he was available. Didn't Stevie hang like 35 points on us in a game last season? I think he's in that mode in which his mind still thinks that he's the man, but his body and skills can't let him be the man on a nightlly basis. That's why is in limbo as a player right now. On the Hawks though, he'd be starting at PG and we might be a better squad. Artest or Marvin at SF? Remember, at the time in which he was available, it was all about possibly trading Harrington for him. Adding Artest basically takes up the room that we gave Speedy and in picking up AJ's contract. And the acquistion of Artest did initally paid off for the Kings, seeing that they made a run to the playoffs that year I believe. I think Artest is in the last year of his deal, so he'd come off the books this year anyway. Iverson is a superstar player. People who were against not bringing him here, weren't looking at the total situaton. He and JJ instantly becomes the best backcourt in the league. And I don't believe that he's still not going to be playing at an all-star level 2 years from now. Even when AI loses a half of a step, he's still going to be one of the fastest players in the league. Like Curry, what he gives up defensively, he makes you pay on the offensive end. My point is that teams usually get significantly better, when they trade for veteran highly skilled talent.

Quote: Please. Bringing in Curry to come off the bench is an AWFUL move for a franchise with limited resources. Don't go trying to justify this awful trade by insulting the people on this board. So adding a guy who averaged 19.5 ppg and shot 57% from the field last season at center, would be an awful move? I mean, you could start him, but that means either Horford, Smoove, or Marvin goes to the bench. I'd rather bring him off the bench, have him concentrate on just being a scorer, and let Horford and Smoove handle the boards. Curry is definitely a flawed player. He's a bad rebounder for his size, and a God awful shot blocker. But he's one of the top 10 scoring post players in the league. The 650 something FTs he shot, was #5 in the league last year. His total shot % was 60%. This guy is flawed, but definitely not a scrub. He's like a highly efficient scoring version of Zaza. When Zaza is scoring, his horrible defense is much less of an issue. If he shot over 50% FG, Zaza would definitely start over Horford, despite most of wishes. Centers who put up scoring nunbers like Curry does, are usually making max money, not 10 mill a year. Isaiah won't trade Curry, unless he's absolutely desperate, and he may be getting close to that. He's unhappy with just about everybody outside of Zachary these days. Ish, it isn't an impossibility that both Chill and Shelden could start in NY. Shell could be their Kurt Thomas.

Quote: Finally someone who sees what I have been preaching about for years now. If anyone on this team is tradable it is Chills. He is a luxury on great teams but a trade piece on mediocre ones. We have an advantage because we have a number of short term contracts we can move. Chills is up after this year, Zaza is up after next year. We can move Shelden without any backlash from the fanbase whatsoever, and the knick could sell him to NY as a young big with a comparitively small contract. While Curry is an ill fitting piece in NYC, he'd be a key peace in Atl. In my lineup he'd start. He may be a black hole, but he is by far better in the post than any of our current players. He'd give us a legitimate 5. We could use him in multiple lineup sets. My fav would be a "Big" linuep of JJ, Law, Smoove, Horford, Curry I think that Curry would be a better defender and rebounder under Woody's system. He won't be an allstar, but I'd feel much better about him defending the Shaq's and Howards of the world, than either Horford or Zaza. IMO he gives us the maximum amount of talent for giving up the least amount of talent. I challenge anyone on H.S. to name another player with Curry's talent who would be available for a Childress/Shelden type trade. And the one thing about Curry, is that he forces the other big to guard him in the post. When that happens, teams have to either gameplan to stop him, or foul him. He's too good of a scorer to let him do what he wants. I looked on the knicks board the other day, and they're all for Randolph starting at center. You'd think Curry was Shelden Williams, let them tell it. Curry did have a great game yesterday, but I hope he continues to struggle a bit. I want to see if Isaiah would seriously be willing to trade him. Karl Malone always complained about having a "dominant center" to play alongside him. Curry isn't "dominant", but Karl maybe wins 2 titles with a center with the scoring ability of Curry.

Troy, you mentioned someting about January. People better look at our schedule starting mid-January. We have 2 major road trips in January and February that could completely wipe us off the map, if we can't win at least 40% of those games. Right now though, we have a lot of home games between now and then. We probably need to make our move now, before we hit those road games. So the games right now are definitely important. Every home game we lose, we need to steal back on the road. I seriously doubt that this team can go .500 on the road. Every home game in these next 4 - 5 weeks, are of the utmost importance to this season.

Quote: I made this exact thread a week ago and it was ignored. This board does not believe in making a move. If this was the celtics board, they wouldn't have traded for the big 3 because of the "potential" of their youth. But I guess they'd rather trade Josh Smith for the right to pay Gasol 13 million JB, you're right. I saw your thread. The problem with this board, is that most believe we're just a role player away from being real good. People don't want to trade Chill for a big man like Curry, but they'd trade Smoove for Biendrins? Most on the board don't want to give up a young player, in fear that the player we give up, will all of a sudden blow up in another system. But most non-playoff tems get better by making multiple trades, or one big trade. I have no problem keeping Chill here. He's underrated by most Hawk fans anyway. But I'm also not against moving one of our youngsters for greater or equal talent. I wouldn't even start Curry if he came here. He'd assume Chill's 6th man role, with that 6th man being a good scoring low post opton at center. It'll also enable a guy like Horford to see more time at PF, a position that most on the board thinks he can be very good at. A contract decision will have to be made on Chill this summer, and on Shelden the next. Keeping both will be the equivalent of Curry's deal anyway. So a Chill + Shelden + Salim swap for Curry, wouldn't be a downgrade IMO. It might make guys like Horford, Smith, and Law more efficient players. And JJ would definitely benefit, because he'd see less doule teams with Curry in the post. It's funny though. People didn't want to bring in Iverson, or Artest, or Francis ( before he went to NY ), or Randolph, and is split on Gasol . . . but they're all for bringing in Nene, Ridnour, Calderon, Biendrins or Haywood. It's a "low-cost potential" over "high-priced actual skill" mindset. It's real interesting to see a fan base that criticizes its owners for being cheap, but they themselves not willing for the team to bring in a high-priced vet in exchange for one of the kids.

It's hilarious on how only a few people have commented on this thread. Woody is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Woody is the "hip-hop music" of coaching. When something bad happens, blame hip-hop. If hip-hop puts out something good, people cry about it not putting out enough good. Woody is hip-hop.

Just don't change your mind if Deron and Boozer come in here, and take it to us. Hawksquawk opinions tend to wildly change, based on one win or one loss. Woody is an average coach, not a bad or good one. I've always said that, even last year. People wanted to blame Woody for all of our problems last year, and not the injuries. But we were pretty much in the same position last year, that we are this year. Last year, we were 8 - 10 with Marvin not playing any, Speedy hurt off and on, Lue just getting hurt to begin a 3 week absence himself, and Chill in the middle of a 4 week injury hiatus himself. Yet, this team was surviving. Then we lose JJ for 4 games, and lose 3 out of 4, only beating Memphis by 1 or 2. We get Marvin and JJ back, but then Smoove goes down for 8 games. By the time we get most everybody back off of injury, we've lost 11 out of 12 games, and we're pretty much done. The difference this year is . . . - (( knock on Wood and pardon the pun )) JJ, Marvin, and Smoove haven't had some sort of extended injury - even though the PGs are hurting, AJ has been steady enough to keep us afloat - all of the experiences that our core group has been through for the past 3 years, have made them mentally tough. They just don't panic even when they're playing like ish ( unlike the fan base ). - and Woody has always known that defense has to be the thing that gets us to the next level. That's why role players like Ivey, Bozeman, and now Mario, have always played, when they probably shouldn't see the floor. People can complain about the offense, but if we're a consitent defensive team, we're going to be in just about every game we play. If the Hawks are going to be a "grind it out" team that can consistently win without scoring 95 points in a game, then so be it. Even in some of the games we've lost this year when the offense had been horrible, we were very much in the game until the defense breaks down for a 5 minute stretch. When the Pistons won their title a few years ago, they were one of the more lackluster offensive teams in the league. But they could ugly things up and slow you down on the other end . . hence the term . . DEEEEEE-TROIT BASKETBALLLLLLLLLLLL. Like I said three weeks ago, this team is built to DEFEND, not to run. Our running is always going to come about because we've played excellent defense on the other end. But we're definitely a team that can't force the run. Woody did try to make us run, but he quickly realized that we were turning the ball over by the boatloads, when we tried. That's when we slowed down the pace, concentrated on taking better shots, and really started making an effort to shut down teams. The result is the Hawks being winners of 8 of 12 games.

Quote: If we get him, one of our young stars have to go, he isn't worth it imo. Let's break it down then. Curry is due 9.7 mill next year. And let's say that the Knicks want Chill + Shelden + Salim Hawks contracts for 08 - 09 ( I'm not a capologist, so I'm just going off of what I see on hoopshype.com ) JJ - 14.2 mill Curry - 9.7 Speedy - 5.7 Marvin - 5.6 ZaZa - 4.0 Horford - 4.0 Acie - 2.0 Solo - .8 That's 8 players under contract, at 46 million. That leaves roughly 13 million for Smoove's extension. If he gets closer to the 10 mill per year deal, we can start him out around 8 - 8.5 million in 2008, and incrementally work up from there. So that's 9 players at roughly 57 million. fill the rest of the roster with low-priced vets and the 2nd round pick. When Marvin's deal comes up in 2009, the team will have to decide if they want to go over the cap a little for about a year, before deciding what to do with JJ later in the season or going into the 2010 season. If we haven't turned the corner by 2009, JJ is almost sure to be dealt for need players, or expiring contracts. I don't think that 2 more years of non-playoff basketball would see JJ around for the 09 - 10 season. In that situation, the "keys to the car" will probably be handed to Law, Horford, and Marvin or Smith. I know people are scared to make a move whenever someone throws up a guy with many flaws. But a Curry, the good Curry that can score, could do wonders for this team as far as offensive balance goes. I don't know if I would make the move either, but I wouldn't totally dismiss it right off the bat. IMO, Curry is definitely an upgrade over ZaZa, but overall, not as good as Horford. I definitely see why people wouldn't want to pull the trigger on a deal like that. But then again, you have to take risks sometimes. And out of all the young players that might become stars, it's safe to say that Chill and Shelden are the most unlikely to do so. I think Chill, as a starter, could be a 15 - 17 ppg guy though on a team like the Knicks. You know, this is probably like when the Lakers traded Caron Butler to bring in Kwame Brown. Now Caron is a much better player than Chill, and Curry a much better player than Kwame. But the situation is somewhat similar. The Lakers were trying to address their void in the middle, and were willing to give up a good young piece to get him. Caron panned out for the Wiz, but Kwame didn't for the Lakers. In this situation, we'd be getting a very skilled post scorer, while giving up a pretty good swingman. Curry is far from the project big man that Kwame was. To me, Curry is on the level of an Andre Miller, as far as impact. Neither will be "the man" or one of the star players here. But both could fill a much needed void in the lineup and provide some of the skills that we're lacking. Just keep an eye on the Knicks.