TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: Do the Hawks ever pass into the post, or do they just launch jumpers all game long? LOL . . who is going to score in the post? But I see what you're saying. We're a soft basketball team. When we play teams that are bigger and stronger than us, we stay on the outside and don't attack the rim. LOL . . 18 - 5 rebounding advantage now . . . quickly down by 14. WOW !!

LOL . . and ya'll don't think this correlates to us winning and losing. Also, 5 offensive rebounds for the Spurs.

LMAO @ that vote being DEAD EVEN !!

Quote: Good post Northcyde. And coach, that doesn't mean that I'm pro-Woodson. I just don't place all of the blame on him. I'm definitely for firing him if this team continues to struggle this month. But I think the fans are a little to obsessed with this whole "let's run" philosophy. If we don't execute when we do run, why run in the first place? To me, it's all about players being in attack mode. We saw what Josh Smith is like, when he attacks, instead of settles. The same goes for Marvin and JJ. Tonight, if we're not in attack mode, we're going to lose. Keep your eye on Smoove tonight. Because of the great game he had up in Milwaukee, he'll probably come out in attack mode again. If he's successful, that's a good thing. But if he struggles, like he usually does against the Spurs, see if he also stays in attack mode on the defensive end. If he starts out 1 - 5 . . 2 - 8, see if he still stays active on the boards and with the block shots. Normally against the Spurs, he kind of wilts. So keep an eye on him.

I'm a person who sees the Griz, just as much as I see the Hawks. I might even go to Memphis this weekend, and check out the Griz vs the Washington Arenases. Quote: Mike Fratello made Memphis a playoff team with Miller, Gasol, and Stoudamire. The problem was that Fratello was never West's choice. Fratello was Heisley's choice for Coach. West thought that Fratello would fall on his face but what happened was Fratello did what he always do, he found the strength of the team and he won with that. Of course, the strength of that team was with Gasol and Miller. Jerry West was upset because he wanted Mussleman to be his coach. He even did so much to make it evident when he hired Mussleman and put him on Fratello's coaching staff as Top Assistant. Welp, Sacramento came a calling and Mussleman went to take the job. This caused great problems between West and Fratello. For years, West had been squandering draft picks... like Dahntay Jones and Bell and picking up guys like Swift and Cardinal (wasting money)... However, Fratello won with whatever he gave him... UNTIL Pau went down. First off, Hubie Brown made Memphis a playoff, not Mike Fratello. Hubie laid the foundation as far as work ethic, the offensive rotation of 9 - 10 men, and a commitment to defense, right after Memphis fired Lowe. It was also Hubie that was HAND PICKED by Jerry West. Hell, that man was long retired, and had little desire to return to coaching, until West begged him to come out of retirement and take over, what was then, EASILY THE WORST FRANCHISE IN THE NBA. That was BY FAR the best move Memphis made in that 3 year stretch in which they made the playoffs. Fratello inherited a team that already knew how to play. And frankly, he didn't make them any better than what they were. Don't get me wrong, he definitely didn't deserve to get fired, with Gasol being out most of the first part of last season. But it's not like he built that Memphis team and had them doing great things either. Quote: When Pau Went Down, Fratello had a team that he had made to be a Halfcourt team (Pau inside, Miller/Jones/Battier/Jackson outside) to now having guys like Warrick/Gay on his team. Wrong again. That was all Hubie that established Memphis' style of play 2 years earlier. Fratello just didn't let them lose a step. He didn't make Memphis worse, but he didn't make them better either. When Gasol went down, that's when the problems started. Quote: Fratello still played Jones because Jones was a vet who could play defense, but he was not playing uptempo like West wanted him to because Fratello realized that Pau was coming back and Pau wouldn't work in an uptempo system. So with this being the case, coming off of a playoff birth with half your team hurt and the other half (battier, Jones) traded away... West fired Fratello claiming that he can't coach uptempo. LOL. Fratello took over from Brown during the 04 - 05 season. A season in which they still had Jason Williams running the point. They won 45 games that year and averaged around 93 ppg. The next year, they won 49 games and averaged 92 ppg. So your theory was that because the Griz wasn't playing uptempo, but WINNING GAMES AND MAKING THE PLAYOFFS, that West fired Fratello the next year, because of his plodding style of play? The same style that Hubie had the team running in 2003, when they first turned the corner? You sure there wasn't something else in play here? You do remember what happened after the Suns swept the Griz in the 05 Playoffs right? Remember . . "You ain't writin' nothin' homeboy!! You ain't writin' nothin?" West had to bust up that successful group, with Williams Bonzi Wells being the problem children. So he give those two the boot, along with Posey, and brings in Stoudamire, Atkins, and Jones. But what probably did Fratello in, was that pizz poor performance against Dallas, when the Griz were a 5 seed and Dallas a 4 seed. Not only did they get swept, they averaged under 90 ppg that series. That was an indication to West that not only did they not have the talent to compete against the West playoff teams, it might be an indication that Fratello had taken that team as far as he could've taken them. And remember, we're not talking about a Memphis team that was making the playoffs for the first time ever. They had been to the playoffs 3 consecutive years by then, and hadn't won a single playoff game. And with Fratello being the coach for 2 of those seasons, the heat was definitely on him. Quote: In his last move, West, made sure that the Griz would hire Ivaroni and prove that this team is uptempo. However, they still have Gasol (who is slumping). I don't think it had anything to prove that the team was uptempo. It's just that they weren't winning playing Fratello-ball, with the personnel they had and with Gasol out. You talk about adjusting? Fratello didn't adjust when Gasol was out. With Gasol out, their only chance at winning, even competing in games, was to try to play fast. That team struggled to break the 95 point barrier on most nights, while playing atrocious defense. The Griz was 6 - 24 when he got fired. I think West wanted to make the team more athletic, seeing that Phoenix and Dallas had swept the Griz in the playoffs in 2 consecutive years. If anything, he wanted to construct a team that plays like them. And if Fratello wasn't the right coach . . . well, you know how the story ends. West definitely isn't perfect. And he definitely made a few questionable moves in Memphis. But he made more good moves than bad. Quote: The Lesson applies to us in this way... Hmmmm . . I can't wait to read this. Quote: Whereas Fratello was a coach who could find his players strength and recognized that an inside out game was more suitable for Memphis than uptempo... Woody is the exact opposite. He's not one able to find the strength of this team... Moreover, I don't think Woody can truly coach up-tempo. Nor does he have the desire to. Once again, Hubie established what that team's strength was, not Fratello. And Fratello didn't adjust to Gasol being out, which led to that horrible record. Diesel, how many teams run an uptempo offense with their forwards being the main guys pushing the ball up the court? Does Phoenix do it? Does Golden St do it? Does Memphis do it? Utah? Dallas? Every single one of those teams have guards . . GUARDS . . who push the ball up the floor and make life easier for the wings. Yet, people want the Hawks to do the exact opposite, and still run the floor? LOL . . Imagine Carlos Boozer, Amare, Pau Gasol or Dirk trying to do the same ish that Josh Smith does. LOL @ Amare grabbing a rebound, and almost flat out refusing to give the ball to Nash, and running the mini-fast break himself. That would be totally counterproductive to being a running team. And that's exactly what we do. And look what style of play Memphis played when they WON. Even you admit that Fratello, and his inside-outside philosophy ( the one that Hube also used ), won games for Memphis. Like it or not guys, the Hawks have won when they've done these three things. 1) rebound the basketball 2) get stops, key stops, late in games 3) execute in the half court offense When we do those 3 things, we win. We are 14th in offensive FG% . . and 26th in defensive FG%. Which number do you think contributes to us losing games? This team is NOT built to run . . this team is built to ATTACK. Whether it be on the fast break, or within the half court offense, these guys should always be in ATTACK MODE . . not PLAY FAST mode. Quote: Woody wants a Detroit like team with interchangeable parts who can play good defense and the offense will come. That's the problem. That's so far away from up-tempo and far away from the strength of this team. LOL . . like this would be a BAD thing? Man please. Detroit is EXACTLY who we should be trying to play like. Detroit is an ATTACK style team, both on offense and on defense. They force you to play hard on BOTH ends of the floor. They can run, or shut you down. So . . I guess you would rather us play like Memphis and Golden St? Kinda pretty on offense, but horrible on defense? Well, that's exactly how we're playing when we lose games. We take a lot of jumpers, we don't attack the rim or the boards, and we aren't aggresive enough on defense. That's why we lose. Oh, but "running" looks so much better. We look good, but don't win. Fug that !! I'd LOVE to see this team play like the "boring" 1996 Hawks that used to average under 95 ppg, but shut people down defensively and win games. Quote: Woody should be replaced by Del Harris!!! Or Alvin Gentry!!!

Why do you guys do this to yourselves? You know there is no way in hell we could get Calderon here, so why even go through the "possible" trade scenarios? And be leery of backups who look "great" in the backup role. They may not look that great as the starter. Not saying that we couldn't use Calderon, because we definitely could. But this topic really isn't even worth discussing.

Quote: They completely dismiss it. They don't seem at all interested, pretty surprising if Biedrins is so lame. click Of course they'd dismiss it. He's their only legit big man. That would be like us saying no to an Al Harrington for Al Horford rumor. No way we're giving up a young Al for Harrington, even if he is having a career year. That still doesn't mean that Biendrins would fit here in place of Smoove. If you add Beans, and kept Smoove, now we're talking. But in place of him? No way.

Good job in going back to this thread. Maybe you should continue to do it like every 10th game from here on out, to see how we're stacking up against what you predicted.

MrH., I think you're just way off on this one. Biendrins is 6-11 . . 235. That's pretty much the same size as Marcus Camby. The knock on Camby is, that while he's a very good shot blocker, he's not that great of a man defender. Good post players can muscle and push Camby around. And that's exactly what they do to Biendrins. Boris Diaw damn near looked like an all-star two years ago in the playoffs, when he played "point" center for Phoenix. 19 ppg in the playoffs for that kid? And why? Because he was able to take advantage of bigger centers, and use his quickness to score. It's all about the Phoenix system, when it comes to Diaw. The same goes for Biendrins. His numbers are greatly enhanced by that Golden St. system. And until I see this guy really hunker down on defense, and actually stop a good post player from having his way on him, I can't even consider trading a talent like Smith, for a role player like Biendrins. He couldn't do anything with Utah's big guys last year in the playoffs. 6.4 ppg and 6.3 rebs in the entire playoffs last year, while not being able to stop anybody. You know who Biendrins is? He's a less skilled offensive, better skilled defensive version of Troy Murphy. A nice player to have on your team, but NOT a player to trade a starter for. It'll be totally different if you were talking about adding him, without trading Smith. Then you would be getting somewhere, because we could either start him in place of ZaZa, or bring him off the bench as a decent defensive big. But to subtract Smith to add Biendrins? No way. ****** The bad thing about this thread, is that Smoove is almost certain to struggle against San Antonio. Smith will look great against bad defensive PFs, but look bad against PFs that can play good defense. Tim Duncan will probably be on him, and he always struggles with the Spurs. It was actually ZaZa that played well against the Spurs last February. I think Smoove's career high vs the Spurs is 9 points, in that same game last February. He shot 3 - 14 in that game. So it will be interesting to see how he plays against them in a couple of days.

Quote: OFFENSE sells TICKETS DEFENSE wins GAMES REBOUNDING wins CHAMPIONSHIPS Matter of fact, that'll be my new sig.

As the great Pat Summitt says: OFFENSE sells TICKETS DEFENSE wins GAMES REBOUNDING wins CHAMPIONSHIPS If you don't rebound the basketball, and stop people, you will be an wildly inconsistent team. If you do those 2 things, you can actually win a basketball game on nights in which your offense isn't clicking. But if you're good on offense, but terrible on defense, you will still be wildly inconsistent. You better be GREAT on offense, if you're a bad defensive team.

Quote: I would love a Gasol for Smoove deal. Watched the Memphis game last night ( because SportSouth is KILLING ME by not showing Hawk games right now. I got a (( bleepin )) replay of the UT-Chattanooga vs Applachian St football game ). The Griz remind me of the Hawks so much. It's no doubt they have the athletic talent. But they just can't close out game and they can't get stops when they need it the most. LOL . . and they also could use a BIG in the middle. A Gasol - Smith trade, would meant that Smoove would be playing center for the Griz. LOL . . not sure how that would quite work out, but it would be intersting. Like with the Hawks, the Griz TRY to play uptempo. And like with the Hawks, the Griz lose because they can't stop anybody.

Quote: The more I think about it, the more I like it. Biedrins is a true center, Horford is a true PF, and Marvin is a true SF who is also a borderline PF. All of them can rebound and play defense, and all of them are team-oriented, and stay inside their role in the offense. If Law comes through at PG, we wouldn't have a weakness, except for head coach. Biedrins is 6-11 . . and MIGHT be 235 pounds. In reality, Horford is a bigger player than he is. He's not a true center. He's a PF playing center on a very small team that likes to run. Skilled post players pretty much aren't scared at all facing Biendrins. vs Clippers: Biedrins: 12 points - 7 rebounds . . Kaman: 26 points - 18 rebounds vs Utah: Biedrins: 14 points - 9 rebounds . . Okur: 28 points - 3 rebounds vs Cleveland: Biedrins: 12 points - 10 rebounds . . Big Z: 22 points - 14 rebounds vs Dallas: Biedrins: 9 points - 10 rebounds . . Diop: 4 points - 5 rebounds ( in 15 minutes ) vs Detroit: Biedrins: 18 points - 11 rebounds . . Wallace: 22 points - 9 rebounds vs Clippers: Biedrins: 23 points - 18 rebounds . . Kaman: 20 points - 12 rebounds vs Toronto: Biedrins: 15 points - 14 rebounds . . Maceo Baston ( lol . . the forward from Michigan? WTF is he doing starting at center for the Raptors? ) 4 points - 3 rebounds ( in 13 minutes ) With Biedrins in the mix here, we're going to have the exact same problem in the post, whenever we go up against decent post players. Biedrins is the type of player you give up expiring contracts, or maybe Shelden + Salim for. You don't give up a starter, especially not a versatile one like Josh Smith, to bring him in. We'd have to get lucky again in the draft if we traded Smoove for Biendrins + 1st rounder. We'd have to hope we land in the top 3, and then hope that Roy Hibbert or some other big center, was available with that pick.

Quote: i don't get the obsession with biedrins he's a great rebounder for sure; tho horford won't be much worse he doesn't bring the defense that smoove brings, nor the assists or steals or blocks he doesn't play the man defense as good as horford smoove is a very UNIQUE talent and he is only getting better every year...the last two games he showed that he is ready to start driving and not settle for jumpers and as he matures (still only 22), he will become one of the best players in this game why trade that away? I totally agree. Biedrins is only a decent player because of the system he plays in. G-State is so small upfront, that if anybody gets a rebound, it's probably going to be him anyway. He's not the type of player whose skills can translate to any team he plays on. Kind of like Boris Diaw. Or maybe a better example is Al Harrington. Al is averaging 21 ppg - 7 rebs - and is shooting a career high 54% FG right now. If he's that good, we should be trading to get Al back in the mix here. As far as Biedrins' defense goes, he's slipping in that department so far this season. Right now, opponents have an eFG% of 57% against him. In comparison, Horford is at 52%, Smith, Shelden and Marvin at 48%. Yes, he'll block some shots, but you also have to get stops in this league by plaing good "on-the-ball" defense. And you pretty much get nothing from Biedrins on offense, unless he puts back offensive rebounds in the hole, or if a PG is setting him up for easy lay-ups. This guy has literally taken ONE SHOT outside of 5 feet from the basket. One. There is no way in hell that you trade a Josh Smith + a 1st rounder, for that. No way. LOL @ bringing in ANOTHER young guy ( the draft pick ) to this team. That's the last thing we need right now. We need experienced guys that know how to play, and have no problem filling their roles. There are a lot of obsessions on this board for players who are just marginal players that probably wouldn't help us much, especially if we have to trade a Smoove, Chill, or Marvin to get that player. Guys like Luke Ridnour, Andre Miller, will not keep us from being an inconsistent team, because . . lol . . they're inconsistent themselves.

Here's a proposition for anyone willing to take up the challenge. We have games @ Milwaukee, vs San Antonio, and @ Miami coming up. Some of you are already in mid-season, doom and gloom mode. So let's put it to the test. If you truly believe that we're going to lose the next 3 games, with or without Smoove and/or Law, I'll make a friendly wager with you. If we LOSE all 3 games . . I will NOT post on Hawksquawk until December 1st. If we WIN all 3 games . . whomever takes that bet against us losing all 3, has to do the same. Simple wager. I'm about to get off from work, so I'll check this thread tomorrow. But PLEASE post by the start of tomorrow's Bucks game. Lose 3, and you don't see me on this site until December. Win 3, and I don't see ________ until December.

Quote: Keep your head in the sand if you like NC. No excuse for a supposed young and hungry team to lose at home to 1-8. I don't need a Kleenex because it's not my job in the balance. Call your best buddy Woodson because he's going to need a whole box. Here's whats going to happen NC. If we drop 3 straight here this week, and its looking pretty likely, your buddy gets the axe. Finally. Because if we go 3-8 and he's still employed then we have no shot. NEWSFLASH: Seattle sucks. There is something STILL wrong with the Hawks. It's called coaching and we simply don't have a good one. In fact, our coach is embarrassing. If we're 3 - 8, I agree that he should get the axe. I'm on record of saying that if we're not at least 5 - 9 at the end of November, then he should be fired. And if we fall 5 games below .500 in this month, he should be fired. LOL @ something still wrong with the Hawks. Maybe what was wrong tonight, was our 2nd best player not being in the lineup. It's too easy to give that excuse when it's us. But when we beat teams like Dallas and Phoenix, it's . . "oh, but Josh Howard and Amare Stoudamire didn't play". But the Hawks can't use that excuse. All this game proves is that our bench isn't nearly as good as we all thought it was. Guys like Salim, Lue, and Shelden have to step up, whenever they get heavy minutes. They just didn't do it tonight. I'm betting that at least one of them will do it in Milwaukee though, and help bring home the win.

Quote: NC, your real good with getting numbers together. So, while your talking about "crybabies" will you go back and tell us all what the Hawks record is this millenium? Then, let's re-visit the crybaby issue. Oh, and then tell us what the schedule is over the next week and report back. Then let's see if we can all put a positive spin on what's about to happen. LOL @ Pete. Here's a kleenex for you man. The Hawks have no time to sulk over a loss like this. Not with a game tomorrow night. So I'll take that same approach. When you lose games that you should've won, you learn from the mistakes you made, and get it right back. That schedule next week doesn't concern me one bit, because we can play with every single one of those teams. With there being about 25 minutes left in "positive day", here's a positive you can take away from this game. When we lost Smith for a few games last year, this team had NO CHANCE at winning. Tonight without Smith, we could've won this game, instead of having no hope of winning. This is the NBA Pete. You've watched enough games to know that bad teams can get hot and beat you on any given night. And it doesn't mean a damn thing, unless you let that happen on a consistent basis.

Quote: Quote: Go ahead and cry because we lost to the Sonics. This is the NBA folks. If teams like Detroit and San Antonio can lose to us when we're terrible, then we can damn well lose to the Sonics on a night when Damien plays like Dominique. So go ahead and cry. Doom and gloom. Cry your damn eyes out. Here . . lol . . I'll hand you some kleenex. You'll be crying on Feb when you look at the standings in Feb and March. The hawks only beat teams like Dallas and PHX because these teams don't take the Hawks seriousally. Dallas proved last night that when they're taking the other team seriousally they're a top 3 team. I thought we beat them because they were missing key starters?

Go ahead and cry because we lost to the Sonics. This is the NBA folks. If teams like Detroit and San Antonio can lose to us when we're terrible, then we can damn well lose to the Sonics on a night when Damien plays like Dominique. So go ahead and cry. Doom and gloom. Cry your damn eyes out. Here . . lol . . I'll hand you some kleenex.

LOL . . that damn Durant. He got his first signature highlight. Oh well . . . I have a feeling that positive day is about to come to a screeching halt.

well . . I guess JJ still trusts them. Gotta get another stop now.

JJ won't pass it this time. He'll force a shot if he has to. Let's just hope that it goes in.

I tell ya. Lue is a complete liabi . . dang . . . it's positive day. Coach, just put Mario in please?

what a big time shot by JJ.. good lord

damn I thought Salim was going to hit that !!