TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: I certainly hope you're right. Perhaps he will prove me wrong. I just don't see that special intangible we call "it" in his game. LOL . . anything to dog Marvin. It's a shame. As far as "IT" goes, Josh Smith doesn't have "IT" . . "yet". He just makes more exciting plays ( dunks and blocks ) than Marvin does, because he is more athletic. None of you would've typed this about Smoove a year ago. Like Marvin going into his 3rd year, there were a lot . . A LOT of questions about Smoove going into his 3rd year. He put a lot of those questions to rest in year 3. I think Marvin will do the same. And let's not forget this about Smoove. He blew up as a player statistically, when JJ was out. The question now becomes, can he play at that high of a level on a consistent basis, with a healthy JJ in the lineup? Does Smoove play with more passion and desire than Marvin? Of course. But Salim Stoudamire arguably plays with more passion, than anybody on the team. As I'm typing this with 6 minutes in the 2nd quarter, both Marvin and especially Smoove, seem to be struggling with Miami's frontline. Both have 2 fouls and 3 turnovers. Marvin has 6 points and no rebounds. Smoove has no points and 5 rebounds. BOTH players must become more consistent on a nightly basis before saying one or the other has "IT".

Quote: So let me get this straight... Orlando took out it's first squad and left in the second team.... and we left Smoove in til 253... and we're bragging about the outcome. First off all, Orlando's second team is NBADLers... Augustine played in the NBADL. Arroyo messed up the game last night and he's the only legitimate player that was on the floor. There was no Howard. There was no Lewis. There was no Nelson. There was no Foyle. There was no Battie. JJ Redick played a career high 31 minutes last night. I'm not saying that there wasn't things that we shouldn't be proud of from last night's game. I'm just saying before you go out saying we won, we won, we f---- won.. you need to look at who was on the floor when we won. Try this.. Which scenerio would you be happier with: 1. We were winning a preseason game up until the 8 minute mark and Woody subbed out all of our starters and left in every 2nd and 3rd teamer he could find and we ended up Losing. 2. We were losing a preseason game up until the 8 minute mark when the other team subbed out all of their starters and left in every 2nd and 3rd teamer that he could play and we ended up winning. Which scenerio makes you happier. First off Diesel, I could've cared less if we'd won that game on Monday night. It's preseason. In preseason, I only look at how individual players play, not necessarily how the team plays. Second, I'm the one who started the "Get the starters outta there" part of this thread, when I saw Smoove and Marvin still in the game with 5 minutes to go. I wanted BOTH of them out of the game, to prevent some freakish injury occuring to one or both of them against the Magic scrubs. All I was doing, was pointing out the FACTS of the game to you. You were under the assumption that if Howard stays in the game, then we wouldn't have won. Well, on the flip side of that, if JJ stays in, we maybe would've won even with Howard dominating. Diesel, these are glorified scrimmage games, and they should be viewed as such. These games, especially the first few games, will NOT resemble how the Hawks play or rotate players in and out of games. I think JJ took a total of 3 shots in the first half. You'll never see that in a regular season game. So if a player plays well or struggles in a preseason game . . OR IN A SCRIMMAGE IN PRACTICE . . people shouldn't overanalyze either performance. Now if he consistently plays well, that's a good thing. If he consistently struggles, that's a bad thing. But I'm not the one to get all emotional over the good and the bad during preseason. I just don't want anybody to get hurt.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Was the Orlando first team on the floor for the final 8 minutes? No. Also, there was no Speedy and JJ on the floor during that time. - ZaZa came out at the 7:33 mark - Smoove finally came out at the 2:53 mark, and we were still down 3. Why are you guys justifying a pre-season result to this guy? Don't you know what this guy's agenda is by now? You're right. (( aiming the lazer cannons at Diesel's "agenda" ))

Quote: Was the Orlando first team on the floor for the final 8 minutes? No. Also, there was no Speedy and JJ on the floor during that time. - ZaZa came out at the 7:33 mark - Smoove finally came out at the 2:53 mark, and we were still down 3.

Gray . . they just don't understand. I mean, I can play uptempo on NBA Live, with Chill and Smoove pushing the ball . . LOL . . as long as I get the ball back to an open JJ for the jumper. But reality is a little different, than on a video game ( although the video games do accurately protray the abilities of certain players ) You're not going to find one good fast-break/uptempo basketball team, that doesn't have a really good PG leading the way. Not one. And if you have just a decent one, he has to stay healthy. Something Speedy and Lue wasn't last year. But guess what? We can possibly get away with it this year, because we have (( gasp )) 2 PGs now. You can tell people like Smoove, Chill and Marvin, to fill the wings, instead of leading and starting the break. Hard to run an offense, let alone an uptempo one, without a PG. I'm about to do some research into Hawks wins last year. I'll post my findings either tonight or tomorrow. I'll see if the Hawks need to play at a faster tempo, or just become a more efficient team, regardless of tempo.

Quote: Quote: I don't consider this a good victory. Howard went out of the game with 7 1/2 minutes left on the clock... Orlando was up by 9. He had dominated the post all game long. If we're going to be contenders, we got to do better! This is bull. Their best player played 28 minutes, our best player played 27. And after Dwight went out, we had 4 bench guys and Marvin. It was basically backups vs backups. I agree that the win means very little, but last night sounded great for our whole team (except for defending Dwight), particularly Smith, Marvin, Chill, Horford and Law. JJ left the game for the final time, with 3:56 left to go in the 3rd quarter. SCORE: ATLANTA 62 - ORLANDO 58

Quote: Quote: Most of the board jumped all over Marvin for one bad scrimmage game and called for his starting spot all weekend long because he wasn't aggressive enough! Now that you saw it in the very next game he played, as a fan the response should be "wow" I was so d_mn wrong! This guy is telling me I should say I was wrong for my assessment of Marvin on saturday. Now since he listened to a game on the radio and saw the boxscore he is going overboard. Stats can be decieving. I posted Sekous comments for guys like him who are trying to say "I told you so." How can you properly assess a game by hearing a radio broadcast? I am simply saying it would be better to go by someone who cavers the team and was present last night than your own opinion right now. When you go down to phillips or see a game with your own eyes then you can disregard Sekou or any other writer who covers the NBA and put your assessment over theres. Until then I suggest you go by an eyewitness account instead of blindly following a boxscore. Zone, don't you get it though? The vast majority of this fan base holds Marvin to a much higher standard, based on his #2 selection, than assessing how he's actually progressing as a player. Everybody expects this kid to be LeBron James, even though he doesn't have LeBron James talent. That's why some of you flip out over lackluster scrimmage games, or reports in the paper that he's going to school, and not devoting his entire 24 day to basketball. It's not enough for some of you for Marvin to "just" be a good player. He has to be a star. Until he shows flashes of becoming a star player, it won't be nearly enough for some of you. If Marvin shot 47% FG this year, but only averaged 15 ppg and 6 rebs, a lot of you would still flat out call him a bust . . even if it was obvious that the two best players on the team, and the most potent offensive weapons, are JJ and Smoove. Because he wouldn't be emerging as a star, people would see him as a failure. Marvin Williams is in the same boat that Mario Williams of the Houston Texans is in. Both guys were picked ahead of more popular, and possibly, more talented guys. Both guys, because of that, were expected to IMMEADIATELY be impact players on their respective teams. When it didn't happen, all kinds of criticizm is heaped upon them. Neither guy is a BAD PLAYER. But they may never be the SUPERSTAR player of the guys picked behind them. Here's a list of #2 picks in recent drafts: 2007 - Durant 2006 - Aldridge 2005 - M. Williams 2004 - Okafor 2003 - Milicic 2002 - Jay Williams ( Duke ) 2001 - Tyson Chandler 2000 - Stromile Swift 1999 - Steve Francis 1998 - Mike Bibby 1997 - Keith Van Horn When I look at that list, I see ONE star player, and even he's a schizophrenic star, in Stevie Franchise. Bibby had a few very good years. So did Van Horn. Okafor is a nice player who stock seems to be rising. The one characteristic to look at with this list, is which player was able to start right away for their teams as a rookie. Van Horn, Francis, Bibby, Okafor, and Durant this year, will be or were rookie starters. Chandler, Milicic, M. Williams, J. Williams, and Aldridge were not. Jay williams had the unfortunate motorcycle accident. Aldridge is progressing, and will start this year. Milicic rode the pine in Detroit for 3 years, before finally being able to showcase what he can do as a player. Chandler's progression was slow, until he got traded to New Orleans. Then he blew up as a defensive shot blocker and dominant rebounder. And Marvin? Year 2 saw him inserted into the starting lineup, get off to the slow start because of his hand, and finish strong to close the season. I still say that Marvin would be even further along in his progression, had the Hawks done what they should've done, and got rid of Harrington in the summer of 2005. That would've cleared more PT for Smoove, Marvin, and Chill in the 05 - 06 season, instead of playing behind Harrington for another year.

Quote: Solo only getting 4 minutes in a preseason game. Both he and Sheldon should have gotten a lot more while Chil and Smith should have played less. These guys need some court time and preseason is the time to do it when winning is not important. I totally agree.

Quote: Quote: Quote: It's not just about proving a point. It's about developing chemistry. Horford and Law need chemistry with JJ, Smith, Speedy, whoever... Well then, put Horford in the starting lineup. Law too, if you want to do that. This is preseason. You can do things like that in preseason. The last thing I want, is someone like Smoove turning an ankle, trying to block a shot in the final 2 minutes of a meaningless game. You see Orlando doesn't have one single starter in the game now. This isn't football. These guys play year round, let them play. This is no different that the scrimmages they've been playing. In practice they play against guys who know their plays, this is their chance to develop real chemistry. Later in preseason you can play the bums if you're looking for a 15th man. Totally disagree with you. I'd rather play the starters more minutes in the final few preseason games, than in the beginning of the preseason. Developing chemistry is one thing. Keeping key guys from getting freak injuries is another. These games don't count. In these first few preseason games, I'd much rather see a lot of Horford and Law, than a lot of Marvin and Smoove. I can halfway understand Marvin being out there in the final minutes, just to give him some extra confidence. Guys like JJ and Smoove don't need it. That 2nd unit needs chemistry too. They're the guys that's going to keep us in ballgames in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

Quote: Exactly. Our "CBA" should be in too. Get Marvin out of there. Let Law take the last shot, since he hasn't been looking for his shot much. LOL . . . like I said.

Exactly. Our "CBA" should be in too. Get Marvin out of there. Let Law take the last shot, since he hasn't been looking for his shot much.

Quote: It's not just about proving a point. It's about developing chemistry. Horford and Law need chemistry with JJ, Smith, Speedy, whoever... Well then, put Horford in the starting lineup. Law too, if you want to do that. This is preseason. You can do things like that in preseason. The last thing I want, is someone like Smoove turning an ankle, trying to block a shot in the final 2 minutes of a meaningless game. You see Orlando doesn't have one single starter in the game now.

This is preseason. Winning the game will be nice, but it is more important to not get anybody hurt on a stupid play. Especially one of our starters. JJ, Claxton, and Smoove should not play ANY MORE tonight. I want to see Law . . West . . Chill . . Horford . . Shelden Let that group finish the rest of the game. The starters have proven their point.

Quote: Josh Smith is a rebounding machine. Not to over and over, but that is exactly why you play Smoove at the 4. He's so much more active there. There's no reason for that kid to average at least 9 boards this year, possibly even 10.

Did he just get an And-1?

Quote: Quote: I do have one last post for ya though Sweet Pea. I would hate for you to continue to prove me right, however, you've never let me down yet so I shouldn't expect less. ...Roy over SW ...34 wins closer than 40 wins ...And now yet another series of venomous posts directed against me by GSUteke to ensure that it's 80%, not 70% of his posts this week that are directed against me. You are too cute you little loser you. Too cute (grab GSUteke by the ears, muss up his hair, and pat him on his little head). I love you like a parasite, but then again that's what you have become. Just for fun. Projected Hawks lineup w/Brandon Roy before training camp. Starters: C - ZaZa F - Smith F - M. Williams G - JJ G - Claxton Bench: G - Roy G - Lue G - Salim G - Ivey F - Childress F - Jones F/C - Batista F/C - Wright ( one of the guys out of Jones, Batista, Ivey and Wright, would be on the IR. Probably Batista ) Starting lineup on opening night w/Roy on the team and Marvin out with injury: C - ZaZa F - Smith F - Childress G - JJ G - Claxton Bench: G - Roy G - Salim G - Lue G - Ivey F - Jones F/C - Batista F/C - Wright Injuries: - Marvin still hurt in first 17 games to start the year. Returned on Dec 8th. - Speedy is still off and on hurt in the first two months. - Chill goes down after 7 games. Missed 19 games in Nov - Dec. Reutrned on Dec. 23rd. And let's factor in Roy's early injury too. He went down after the 4th game, and missed almost all of 21 games after the injury. He didn't come back until Dec 20th. Hawks lineup on November 18th, the first game Childress misses, with Marvin and Roy already out of the lineup: C - ZaZa F - Smith F - JJ G - Lue G - Claxton ( hurt off and on now ) Bench: G - Salim G - Ivey G - NDBL player ( Bozeman? ) F - NDBL player ( Freije? ) F - Jones F/C - Wright F/C - Batista This lineup would have to survive for the next 10 games. When you look at this squad, Lue and Salim would have to come up BIG TIME, along with Smoove, on a nightly basis. And remember, this is early in the season. How many games could they win, when you go back and look at the opponents we played? ( last year's actual squad went 4 - 6 during this stretch. ) ***** Dec. 8th . . good news!! Marvin comes back. Bad news !! JJ is out for 4 games. And Speedy is having nagging injuries that is limiting his playing time. Lineup: C - ZaZa F - Smith F - Marvin G - Lue G - Ivey ( starts in order to conserve Claxton ) Bench: G - Salim G - Claxton G - NDBL player ( Bozeman? ) F - NDBL player ( Freije? ) F - Jones F/C - Wright F/C - Batista ***** Dec. 15 Good News !! Chill and Roy are healthy, and ready to get back to business. Bad News !! Lue just went down. C - ZaZa F - Smith F - Marvin G - JJ G - Claxton Bench: G - Salim G - Roy G - Ivey F - Jones F - Childress F/C - Wright F/C - Batista **** Dec. 22nd - Bad News !! Smith just went down for 8 games. C - ZaZa F - Marvin F - Childress G - JJ G - Claxton Bench: G - Salim G - Roy G - Ivey G - NDBL player ( Freije? ) F - Jones F - Wright F/C - Batista I think you guys get the picture. Moral of the story: If Brandon Roy misses 21 games to begin the year, the Hawks may have actually been WORSE in those months, than with a "less than 100%" Shelden and his shoulder. The question then becomes . . . would Brandon Roy make us a significantly better team in the 2nd half of the season? He may have emerged only when JJ went down, and the Hawks needed another shooter in the lineup. But who knows? With that type of a merry-go-round in the first 2 months of the season, it's pretty easy to be "right" about a sub-35 win prediction. Then JJ goes down at the end of the year? LOL. I think we're better equipped this year to handle an injury or two. Even a Smoove injury, I believe, doesn't kill us this year, because we have Horford. A combination of two of these guys being out ( JJ, Smoove, Horford ) would be catastrophic this year. Graymule . . . Half full or empty? I say that every time we started to fill up the glass, somebody knocked the glass over and spilled out some water.

Quote: 13 out of GSUteke's last 19 HOMECOURT posts have been about or related to ME! Quote: A lesson we all can learn from HomeCourt gsuteke 10/07/07 08:55 PM I've decided to debut a new sig HomeCourt gsuteke 10/07/07 08:46 PM Re: Jermaine O'Neal HomeCourt gsuteke 10/06/07 08:20 AM Re: What nonsense. HomeCourt gsuteke 10/06/07 08:17 AM Re: What nonsense. HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 11:54 PM Re: NBA SGs: Where is Joe Johnson on your list? HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 11:51 PM Re: NBA SGs: Where is Joe Johnson on your list? HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 05:53 PM Re: Better to be right than wrong, PERIOD! HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 05:51 PM Re: NBA SGs: Where is Joe Johnson on your list? HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 05:10 PM Re: What nonsense. HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 05:03 PM NBA SGs: Where is Joe Johnson on your list? HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 02:46 PM Lovefest continues: SI.com Hawks most improvet HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 02:37 PM What an @sshole HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 02:11 PM What a [censored]-up YOU are! HomeCourt gsuteke 10/05/07 12:10 PM I wish like hell we had drafted Sene HomeCourt gsuteke 10/04/07 08:54 PM Re: We've LOST this coming year's pick? HomeCourt gsuteke 10/04/07 08:43 PM We've LOST this coming year's pick? HomeCourt gsuteke 10/04/07 08:19 PM Re: Interesting how you respond to me that way HomeCourt gsuteke 10/04/07 05:35 PM WRONG! HomeCourt gsuteke 10/04/07 03:44 PM [/indent] SIXTY-NINE PERCENT of what you've posted here in the last 3 days involves your hate towards or an attack by you on me. Sadly, that is not even a hate record for you. Your behavior is shall we say, ugly and obsessive. Wash your hands of it 1000 times or however many it takes. GSUteke's therapy/punishment?

Quote: And certainly not bigger teammates attempting to push Stoudamire around under the basket — his jaw-dropping block of a Josh Smith layup attempt in practice Friday serving as proof that Stoudamire's ready to make his case for a larger role with his actions and nothing else. I can only imagine the comments that would've been thrown around, had Salim blocked Marvin's layup attempt.

Quote: I've NEVER said BK shouldn't have made the JJ deal, always insisted he had to, and always accepted the deal with the belief that had it not broken down in the open that we could've gotten JJ for less. Glad you realize that. Also realize this. A 13-win team is in little position to play "chicken" on a deal, when trying to get a rising young star like JJ was. Giving up 2 draft picks plus Diaw, was no big deal in my eyes. Personally, I would've given them Harrington + the conditional pick, but maybe they didn't want Harrington. But giving up 2 draft picks, in order to get a rising young star, is a fair trade in my book . . . especially when you look at the overall talent on the team 2 years ago. Quote: I JUST said that BK's deal for JJ meant that whatever talent we have NOW is the most we can expect to have. Resignings start the next offseason. We can't keep everyone over the next 2-3 years. If the glass is only half full (or empty) the reality is that there isn't a source remaining from which to fill it. This is simply NOT TRUE. A flat out LIE, if you will. We can easily keep this core group together for the next 2 seasons, if we choose to re-sign Smoove and Chill. You're making way more out of this than should be made. When you look at the contracts on the books right now, we can basically go in ANY direction we want to, in regards to player personnel. For the 08 - 09 season, we already have 8 players under contract ( JJ, Speedy, Acie, Al, Solomon, ZaZa, Marvin, and Shelden ). If you add Smoove and Chill to that mix, that makes 10. So that core group can easily be here for another 2 years. If Marvin hasn't made a quantum leap as a player, you do the same to him going into the 2008 season regarding an extension, as we're doing with Chill and Smoove this year. A contract decision on Shelden, as far as an extension, does not have to be made until the Summer of 2010. Let's go the other way. Say we have another sub-par season this year. We then are in a great position to completely restructure the team, with all the expiring contracts and even with Smoove and Chill becoming RFA's. If a ridiculous offer comes across for Smoove, and the Hawks deem him expendible, then we can easily ask for something from the team trying to get Smoove, in exchange. The issues you bring up, aren't really that pertinent to even discuss right now, because of all the directions we could go in regards to player personnel. And whatever direction we go in, will be determined by how we do this season. If we're good, BK will keep the team intact, much like the Bulls did last year with some of their young guys. If we're bad, he can trade away "assets" to bring in veteran players. So the upgrade can take place that way, with veteran players coming in, instead of hording more draft picks that need time to develop. The rebuild may well indeed be done. But that doesn't mean that we don't tweak the lineup every now and then. We are one of the few teams, with the flexibility to do that, even after we sign Smoove and Chill.

Quote: We're certainly more than half full but the hard part isn't the first 60% towards a championship, it's the last 40%. WE've already lost this coming year's pick and future picks should be lesser. We better be 80+% of the way there and the players we lose because we can't resign them all better be insignificant. Not likely. W I'd rather have two top 10 talents this year, than one top 10 talent this year, and a guy that we may take somewhere between 10 - 20 next year. Without that #11 pick this year, the entire dynamic of this season, and the way we deal with the vet PGs, would dramatically change. At some point, the value of 1st round picks become less important than actually acquiring talent, especially if you already have talent on the squad. The great thing about having 2 picks this year, and none next year, is that we can pretty much set the core of the roster right now, for the 2008 season. And it also enables us to see exactly how much to spend on both Joshs, who CAN easily be retained, barring Smoove really breaking out as a player. And if that happens, that's great in itself. So we only part with Chill, give Smoove his money, and still have enough left over to add one or two cheap but crafty vets to the squad.

Quote: It wasn't what Fratello did. Fratello won 49 games in the previous year with mediocre talent. Jerry West is the guy that traded away key players like Shane Battier, who was easily the Grizzlies best defender and one of their better all around players. Jerry West gave Mike a bunch of players that didn't know how to play defense this past season, and as a result, Mike was made into the scapegoat for Jerry. Jerry West did one of the worst GMing jobs in the NBA while in Memphis, and he receives no criticism for it. I saw just as many Grizzlies games, as I did Hawks games. And KB, you're right on the money. Speedy and Lue missed almost 70 games last year, and we had no low post scorer to go to. Yet, people here expected some kind of efficient fluidity on the offensive end? Come on now. Name a team without a halfway decent PG or a decent low post option, that has a good offense? This '07 team is light years better than the '06 team, simply because of the health situation. Add the two rookies to the mix, and we should be a better looking offensive team. Yet, people still say we should've ran more. The only reason why we ran, is because those running teams take a ton of long shots, that create long rebounds. You can run when you get long rebounds. I would much rather see this team run, because they're playing great defense and creating turnovers and missed shots, that to run just to speed up the tempo of the game.

45 - 47 wins . . . if healthy and if the rookies contribute right away. 42 wins if healthy and the rookies take a little longer to become decent players. There are no Iveys, Batistas, Bozemans, or Frijies that will be seeing significant minutes this year. Our 2nd unit should easily be able to sustain leads if we're ahead, or keep us in games if we're behind. That alone, will keep a guy like JJ fresh for the 4th quarter.

One thing you need to remember Bumpy. Both Smoove and Chill will be restricted free agents at the end of the year. By keeping Lue and AJ until the end of the year, and letting their contracts expire, that frees up enough money to comfortably re-sign both Smoove and Chill next summer. Between Lue and AJ, you're talking almost 7 million coming off the books next summer. Add Lorenzen and Salim to that, and you're talking around 10.5 million. If we take back a contract, it better be for a player who is better than Childress. If not, we're probably better off keeping Chill. The only way in my eyes that Lue and AJ get traded, is if they're part of some big time deal that brings in a legit scorer, regardless of position. But if a deal like that goes down, that means any one of our other players, outside of JJ, could be the major piece in the deal, from our end. It would be a Smoove or Marvin + Lue + AJ + Lorenzen for x-player. It wouldn't be just Lue and AJ for somebody. WE may be better off just letting their contracts expire.

They definitely played off of him when JJ went down. Chill almost always needs to be with a good creator, in order to maximize what he does well. Without JJ to get him the ball when open, he was definitely limited offensively. Smoove even gets Chill the ball in the offense. But when JJ went down, Smoove had to become the "go-to-guy" in the offense. That's kind of why I was all for bringing Marvin off the bench last year, so that he could possibly develop his offensive game as the "go-to-guy" with the 2nd unit, or during those times in which both JJ and Smoove were out the game. That's how the Raptors brought along T-Mac in his 2nd year, before he really showed flashes of greatness in his 3rd year.