TheNorthCydeRises

So let me get this straight. We trade the #3 pick ( horford ) and the #6 pick ( chill ) . . just to get Biendrins, the #11 pick in the 2004 draft? Biendrins = all defense and rebounding, no offense. Horford = defense and offense and rebounding Chill = decent defense and decent offense and a decent rebounding SF Trade two lottery picks, just to bring in a defensive center here? Some of you have completely lost your minds.

Quote: Very coincidental: Maybe we are in the works for Yi and Villanueva. Total disaster for the Hawks if we did that. Charlie is a pure finesse player that doesn't like to bang on the inside. Yi is a pure finesse player that doesn't like to bang on the inside. LOL . . we'd be virtually trading a guy who can at least play on the inside on both ends of the court, for two guys who don't. And seeing that we're a team that already doesn't like playing on the inside, that trade wouldn't help us at all. Who plays center if we trade Horford for those two guys? ZaZa? Charlie? Yi? Good lord.

What's so funny about the Smoove fans, is that Smoove was arguably our MOST inconsistent player, up until he went out for that herina surgery back in December. After his 2 years, people still had PLENTY of questions about Smith. But for Chill and Marvin, they need to "prove themselves now"? After his first 2 years, Marvin is probably further along as a player, than Smoove was in his first 2 years. Smoove fans need to keep in mind that he only shot 44% FG this year. While he's obviously a better player this year than he was last year, he was only a better player for 1/2 the season. Before Christmas, Smoove was great on some nights, dog ish the next. NO consistency whatsoever from him. Now, it looks as if he turned the corner. Marvin? He's improved as well. People conviently forget that this was his first year in the starting lineup. And he missed 1/4 of the season with the injury. Let's see what he can do in Year 3, just like we had to wait for Year 3 of Smoove to see what he can do. In all honesty, Childress should've been the starter last year, with Marvin coming off the bench. But like you said, they had to take the diapers off our #2 pick. When you talk about consistency, Childress is easily more consistent than both Smoove and Marvin. It's a shame that our fan base has to take shots at any of these guys, in order to hype their favorite forward up. If the front office wants to, and if the marketplace doesn't overvalue any of these guys, the Hawks could definitely keep Smoove, Chill and Marvin around. All 3 bring different things to the table that help the Hawks. So we trade Chill for Monta Ellis. What happens with Acie Law then? Do we play Monta at the point? If that happens, how is the #11 pick that we just acquired going to help us? ( By the way, Law is a better all-around player than Ellis, even though we almost traded for him with that #11 pick ).

Personally, I think Smoove would be best served if he doesn't sign an extension this summer . . especially if it's a deal that's under 10 million per year. On the flip side, I wouldn't sign Smith to an extension if I were the Hawks. If they're trying to acquire another player or two, they probably won't sign him to a new deal this summer. Let the marketplace set the value for Smoove. If the kid is still inconsistent, he can be had at a lesser price. If he blows up, the Hawks will have to give him max dollars. Either way, I wouldn't do anything regarding Smoove and an extension.

Quote: Here are his combine numbers: 6'8.75" 6'9.75" 246 7'0.75" 8'11" LOL . . that's what I said. He's 6-9 3/4. Come on van . . this isn't some 3rd world basketball league in which people play without shoes on. We play with shoes on. So if he's 6'9.75 . . that rounds up to being 6'10. That's not hard to understand.

Quote: That was a lot of work for....actually i am not sure what it was for. It boils down to one simple question. Is our goal to win a title? If the answer is no then by all means Horford is fine at center. But if the answer is yes then we will have to get a center who can effectively defend the top centers in the league. There is no way around it. And Ex . . that's part of the reason why I did this. Go find us a DEFENSIVE CENTER who can also play offense . . that's also available for us to get? Who out of this list of centers do you want? And are they available for us to get? And please don't trade one of our forwards for a stiff who's averaging 6 points, 5 rebounds, and 17 minutes a game. That doesn't help us at all. The thing is this. The history of this league as shown that if a good big man goes up against another, neither are going to shut the other one down. It all comes down to who can play better on the offensive end and rebound the basketball. I could live with ZaZa at center, even with his deficiencies, if he were also a guy who could shoot 57% FG and grab us 10 - 12 rebounds a night. But he can't do that. So we have to get someone who may be capable of doing that, even if he does have problem defending the post. That's why I was for trading for Gasol. He's an average to below average defender, but he's a very good offensive player. We have to be able to cancel the great low post players out, with great low post play of our own. Horford gives us our best chance at doing that right now. All I want from him this year, is 12 ppg . . 8 rebs . . 55% FG . . 1.3 blks. If we can get that from him this year, along with people like Smoove and Marvin improving, we're definitely in the playoffs. But you can't just put a stiff in the middle, with no one around him that can get it done on the offensive end on the block, and expect to make the playoffs either. Stiffs only play with dominant low post players at PF. Gasol has one. So does Duncan and KG. I'm banking on Horford being able to keep people honest on offense, while providing adequate defense in the middle. I'll definitely take that for now. And as far as this "championship talk" . .lol. Ish, we have to make the playoffs first, before anybody starts talking about building a "championship team".

Quote: Why do people keep listing Horford at 6'10? He was measured at a shade under 6'9. http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AlHorford.html The question should be . . why do people like you keep saying that he's 6-9? He measured out to be 6-9 3/4. Last time I checked, you don't round off 3/4 downward . . you round upward. Now if he were 6-9 1/4 . . he'd be listed as 6-9.

Quote: I thought Bosh was a seven footer. Anyways, Horford is closer to Brand and Okafor in size. Amare is taller, longer reach, and much more athletic. But, Brand has Kaman. Out of the draftees, I want Roy Hibbert the most. I wished he had stay in the draft. Hibbert and Law would have been the best choice. I agree. That was my preference from Day 1. But as soon as Hibbert dropped out, I was on the Horford bandwagon because we had to address the middle.

Quote: Well done but I am not sure what the point of this post is. Interestingly, the only guys appearing on that list who are close in dimensions to Horford are Bosh, Amare, Okafor and Brand. There are a lot of people on this board that want a certain type of center. But I don't think they know what they want at all. You just can't name a height and size, and think that's all we need in the middle. We need somebody with some skill who can score on the block and defend it. I just gave those numbers to really give an idea of the types of centers in this league. You have a few elite guys. A lot of mediocre guys. And straight up bums. It pains me when I see that we should trade ( insert the forward you hate here ) for Brendan Haywood or Joel Przybilla. Those guys are bums. There's no way we should trade a forward we chose as a lottery pick, for a perennial backup center. We're almost better off going with 2 PFs that bring different things to the table, like a Smoove and Horford. When you add Marvin to the frontline . . we go 6-9 . . 6-9 . . 6-10. And every single one of those guys are great athletes. Now, it's up to Smoove and Marvin to really start using their heads when they play defense, and not just rely on their athletic ability. If they start playing smart, we're going to be much better off.

I think these numbers tell us a few things: 1) Most of the guys who are impact players on the low post, aren't your prototypical "back-to-the-basket" centers at all. They are guys who can do both face the basket, and back you down. Most of these guys are 6-10 or 6-11, and they tend to be your more dynamic scorers, rebounders, and shot blockers. 2) Bigger guys do tend to be better inside defenders, but not necessarily better rebounders. The big guys act as space eaters, preventing easy shots. On the offensive end though, they can be a liability. Of course, this isn't the case for Yao and Shaq. 3) The ideal size for today's NBA Center, probably should be 6-11 . . 260 . . and VERY athletic. Ironically, that's Tim Duncan's size. 4) 6-10 centers tend to be much better offensive players, than 7-0 centers. The majority of 7 footers in the league aren't impact players at all. They're role players. When people make the case for Horford playing center, you have to understand that the Hawks had a hell of a time defending the post. Sorry centers looked great against us. Here are the eFG and the iFG numbers for Lorenzen, Shelden, and Solomon. You saw ZaZa's numbers in the previous post. WARNING . . THIS IS NOT PRETTY. Lorenzen Wright: eFG – 51% . . iFG – 65% He has the knowledge to play the position, but has obviously lost some athleticism. He's not active at all on the boards and is a liability on both ends of the court. Solomon Jones: ( center only ) eFG – 57% . . iFG – 62% A great shot blocker, but way too thin and weak to be a viable option at center right now. He's a pretty good weak side defender though, because of his athleticism. Shelden Williams: ( center only ) eFG – 56% . . iFG – 65% Scary numbers for Shelden, and illustrates why we had to address the position with Horford. The ONLY defense Shelden can lean on right now, was that his shoulder was hurt for a good chunk of the season. Otherwise, he was just as horrid as the others. He has to get better if he wants to play center. The only thing that saves him right now, is that he's a great rebounder. Otherwise, he can only play center if we're in a zone defense. Right now, Horford is listed at 6-10 . . 245 lb. You figure that he'll have to add at least 10 - 15 pounds of more muscle to his frame, to effectively play center for an extended period of time. It may not happen by the time this season starts, but he'll be able to do it fairly quickly. Horford could easily be in that 6-10 . . 260 range by the start of the 2008 season. This will at least put him in a position to be a very good low post scoring option, and a good defensive option in the middle. He has the offensive skills to be a potent low post threat. He's also a smart player on both ends of the floor. I think he's going to prove right away that he's our best option at the 5. But he'll need the other guys to spell him at times, until he can adjust to playing there possibly full-time. In other words, expect the Hawks to play a lot of zone this year, but be very active in it. They'll use their athleticism and length to cause havoc on the defensive end . . or at least try to. Horford should free up Smith to do even more weak side shot blocking.

Here is a statistical snapshot of the centers around the league. I’m using nba.com and 82games.com for these numbers. We’ll look at the 4 statistical categories that are most important at the center spot: scoring, FG%, rebounding, and blocks. According to nba.com, the guys listed in these first set of numbers almost exclusively played center for their respective teams. Even though some in this list can be considered PFs, they mainly played the C spot. Some big names are omitted in this list, but I’ll get to them later. When I add those guys, it’ll give you a pretty good look at the “centers” around the league, whether they be “true centers” or “power forwards masquerading as centers”. I’ll also give you the center’s measurements, along with the respective stat in each category. Top 11 in scoring amongst centers per game in the NBA ( courtesy of nba.com ) ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 25 ppg ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 20 ppg ( 6-11 . . 263 lb ) Mehmet Okur – 17.6 ppg ( 7-1 . . 325 lb ) Shaq – 17.2 ppg ( 7-0 . . 250 lb ) Mark Blount – 12.3 ppg ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut – 12.3 ppg ( 6-11 . . 280 lb ) ZaZa Pachulia – 12.2 ppg ( surprised? ) ( 7-3 . . 260 lb ) Z. Ilgauskas – 11.9 ppg ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 11.2 ppg ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 10.7 ppg ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 10.1 ppg ( NOTE: These are the ONLY guys that scored in double figures of guys who were listed as centers by nba.com in the scoring category. ) Top 10 centers in FG% in the NBA + the FG% of guys in the top 10 in scoring who aren’t in the top 10 FG% overall ( courtesy of nba.com and 82games.com ) I’ll only list the guys who get at least 20 minutes a night at center. ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Erick Dampier – 62.6% . . ( 67% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 223 lb ) Mikki Moore – 60.9% . . ( 79% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-1. . 325 lb ) Shaq O’Neal – 59.1% . . ( 49% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 240 lb ) Steven Hunter – 57.7% . . ( 71% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-10 . . 261 lb ) Alonzo Mourning – 56% FG . . ( 66% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 275 lb ) Andrew Bynum – 55.8% FG . . ( 66% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 263 lb ) Brendan Haywood – 55.8% FG . . ( 51% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut – 55.3% FG . . ( 55% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 54.6% FG . . ( 46% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 255 lb ) Rasho Nesterovic – 54.6% FG . . ( 78% of shots are assisted ) Top 10 scorers who aren’t in top 10 FG%: ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 54.1% FG . . ( 68% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 51.6% FG . . ( 67% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 250 lb ) Mark Blount – 50.9% FG . . ( 83% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-3 . . 260 lb ) Z. Ilgauskas – 48.5% FG . . ( 66% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 280 lb ) ZaZa Pachulia – 47.4% FG . . ( 56% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 47.3% FG . . ( 60% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 263 lb ) Mehmet Okur – 46.2% FG . . ( 74% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 45.1% FG . . ( 62% of shots are assisted ) Top 11 rebounding centers per game in NBA ( courtesy of NBA.com ) ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 11.7 per game ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 10.6 ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 9.4 ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 8.9 ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut – 8.8 ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 7.8 ( 7-3 . . 260 lb ) Z. Ilgauskas – 7.7 ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Erick Dampier – 7.4 ( 7-1. . 325 lb ) Shaq O’Neal – 7.4 ( 6-11 . . 263 lb ) Mehmet Okur – 7.2 ( 6-11 . . 280 lb ) ZaZa Pachulia – 6.9 Top 10 in blocks per game amongst centers in NBA ( courtesy of NBA.com and 82games.com ) ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 3.3 blks . . block rating: 13.8 ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 2.4 blks . . block rating: 11.3 ( 6-10 . . 261 lb ) Alonzo Mourning – 2.3 blks . . block rating: 18.6 ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 2.0 blks . . block rating: 8.9 ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 1.9 blks . . block rating: 10.3 ( 7-0 . . 275 lb ) Andrew Bynum – 1.6 blks . . block rating: 10.0 ( 7-1 . . 255 lb ) Joel Przybilla – 1.6 blks . . block rating: 18.9 ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 1.55 blks . . block rating: 8.8 ( 7-0 . . 280 lb ) DeSagana Diop – 1.4 blks . . block rating: 12.0 ( 7-1. . 325 lb ) Shaq O’Neal – 1.4 blks . . block rating: 7.3 NOW . . LET’S LOOK AT SOMETHING ELSE . . Let’s now add some of the league’s Power Forwards who also see a lot of time at center for their teams. Some of these guys are listed as F/C, instead of being given the distinction of being a “true” center. Guys that I add in each category are in bold ( courtesy of nba.com and 82games.com ) NOTE: 82games.com has a tendency to mess up where a guy plays as far as position. So if I see in their 5-man roster a guy who is out of place, I won’t count him, if they’re giving him a lot of floor time in his “un-natural” position. We all know this is the case with Marvin vs Smoove at Power Forward. Smoove is almost always at the 4, when playing with Marvin. But Elton Brand, for example, played about ½ the time at both PF and C according to 82games.com. When you look at their 5-man units, you’ll see that whenever Brand played C, Thomas and Maggette were the forwards. And they played quite a bit of “small-ball” this year. So I’ll list Brand in this group of PFs who see a lot of time at center. His true time at center is probably closer to 35% - 40%, than the almost split floor time numbers that they give. The rest of these guys easily play ½ of the game at the center spot. ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 25 ppg ( 6-10 . . 230 lb ) Chris Bosh – 22.6 ppg ( 7-0 . . 260 lb ) Pau Gasol – 20.8 ppg ( 6-8 . . 254 lb ) Elton Brand – 20.5 ppg ( 6-10 . . 245 lb ) Amare Stoudamire – 20.4 ppg ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 20 ppg ( 6-11 . . 285 lb ) Eddy Curry – 19.5 ppg ( nba.com has him listed as a C/F ) ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Jermaine O’Neal – 19.4 ppg ( 6-11 . . 263 lb ) Mehmet Okur – 17.6 ppg ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Dwight Howard – 17.6 ppg Others: ( 7-1 . . 325 lb ) Shaq – 17.2 ppg ( 7-0 . . 250 lb ) Mark Blount – 12.3 ppg ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut – 12.3 ppg ( 6-11 . . 280 lb ) ZaZa Pachulia – 12.2 ppg ( 7-3 . . 260 lb ) Z. Ilgauskas – 11.9 ppg ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 11.2 ppg ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 10.7 ppg ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 10.1 ppg Kind of changes things, doesn’t it? OK, let’s look at FG%. Once again, I’m not listing guys who see limited amount of time. They need to at least get 20 minutes a game. ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Erick Dampier – 62.6% . . ( 67% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-1 . . 235 lb ) Tyson Chandler – 62.4% FG . . ( 47% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 223 lb ) Mikki Moore – 60.9% . . ( 79% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Dwight Howard – 60.3% . . ( 56% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 245 lb ) Andris Biedrins – 59.9% . . ( 71% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 270 lb ) Kwame Brown – 59.1% . . ( 63% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-1. . 325 lb ) Shaq O’Neal – 59.1% . . ( 49% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 240 lb ) Steven Hunter – 57.7% . . ( 71% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 285 )Eddy Curry – 57.6% . . ( 65% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-10 . . 245 lb ) Amare Stoudamire – 57.5% . . ( 65% of shtos are assisted ) Others: ( 6-10 . . 261 lb ) Alonzo Mourning – 56% FG . . ( 66% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 275 lb ) Andrew Bynum – 55.8% FG . . ( 66% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 263 lb ) Brendan Haywood – 55.8% FG . . ( 51% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut – 55.3% FG . . ( 55% of shots are assisted ) ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 54.6% FG . . ( 46% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 255 lb ) Rasho Nesterovic – 54.6% FG . . ( 78% of shots are assisted ) ( 7-0 . . 260 lb ) Pau Gasol – 53.8% FG . . ( 52% of shots are assisted ) Rebounding? ( 7-1 . . 235 lb ) Tyson Chandler – 12.4 per game ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Dwight Howard – 12.3 ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 11.7 ( 6-10 . . 252 lb ) Emeka Okafor – 11.3 ( 6-10 . . 256 lb ) Al Jefferson – 11.0 ( 6-10 . . 230 lb ) Chris Bosh – 10.7 ( 6-9 . . 240 lb ) Ben Wallace – 10.7 ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 10.6 ( 7-0 . . 260 lb ) Pau Gasol – 9.8 ( 6-10 . . 245 lb ) Amare Stoudamire – 9.6 ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Jermaine O’Neal – 9.6 Others: ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 9.4 ( 6-11 . . 245 lb ) Andris Biedrins – 9.3 ( 6-8 . . 254 lb ) Elton Brand – 9.3 ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 8.9 ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut – 8.8 ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 7.8 ( 7-3 . . 260 lb ) Z. Ilgauskas – 7.7 ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Erick Dampier – 7.4 ( 7-1. . 325 lb ) Shaq O’Neal – 7.4 OK . . how about blocks? ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby – 3.3 blks . . block rating: 13.8 ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Jermaine O’Neal – 2.6 blks . . block rating: 12.0 ]( 6-10 . . 252 lb ) Emeka Okafor – 2.6 blks . . block rating: 13.1 ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan – 2.4 blks . . block rating: 11.3 ( 6-10 . . 261 lb ) Alonzo Mourning – 2.3 blks . . block rating: 18.6 ( 6-8 . . 254 lb ) Elton Brand – 2.2 blks . . block rating: 8.4 ( 7-0 . . 260 lb ) Pau Gasol – 2.1 blks . . block rating: 8.5 ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming – 2.0 blks . . block rating: 8.9 ( 6-9 . . 240 lbs ) Ben Wallace – 2.0 blks . . block rating: 8.9 ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Dwight Howard - 1.9 blks . . block rating: 8.3 ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert – 1.9 blks . . block rating: 10.3 Others: ( 7-1 . . 235 lb ) Tyson Chandler – 1.8 blks . . block rating: 7.5 ( 6-11 . . 245 lb ) Andris Biedrins – 1.7 blks . . block rating: 7.0 ( 7-0 . . 275 lb ) Andrew Bynum – 1.6 blks . . block rating: 10.0 ( 7-1 . . 255 lb ) Joel Przybilla – 1.6 blks . . block rating: 18.9 ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman – 1.55 blks . . block rating: 8.8 ( 6-10 . . 256 lb ) Al Jefferson – 1.5 blks . . block rating: 7.2 ( 7-1. . 325 lb ) Shaq O’Neal – 1.4 blks . . block rating: 7.3 Now you have a pretty good snapshot of the guys around the league . . except for one thing. How do they defend as far as limiting guys in the post? The only way we can look at this, is to use the stats that 82games.com gives us, about how an opponent shoots against another person. Since most of these players play either the 4 or the 5 spot, we can look at what guys give up on a per 48 minute basis. I’ll look at the top guys who play center in this league, either full time or part time, and see how they defend the position, as far as eFG ( effective Field Goal %, which combines both regular and 3 point shots ) and iFG ( inside/close to basket FG% ) goes. The percentage numbers for guys who play both the 4 and the 5 may be off ( because of the mistakes that 82games.com may make in determining what position a guy is playing at that moment ), but they do give you an indication of how they defend at that position. ( 7-6 . . 310 lb ) Yao Ming: eFG – 44% . . iFG – 46% ( 6-10 . . 230 lb ) Chris Bosh: ( center only ) eFG – 52% . . iFG – 62% ( 7-0 . . 260 lb ) Pau Gasol: eFG – 54% . . iFG – 57% ( 6-8 . . 254 lb ) Elton Brand: ( center only ) eFG – 52% . . iFG – 56% ( 6-10 . . 245 lb ) Amare Stoudamire: eFG - 58% . . iFG – 54% ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Tim Duncan: ( center only ) eFG – 56% . . iFG – 52% ( 6-11 . . 285 lb ) Eddy Curry: ( center only ) eFG – 54% . . iFG – 52% ( 6-11 . . 260 lb ) Jermaine O’Neal: ( center only ) eFG – 47% . . iFG – 57% ( 6-11 . . 263 lb ) Mehmet Okur: eFG – 53% . . iFG – 61% ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Dwight Howard: eFG – 47% . . iFG – 54% ( 7-1 . . 325 lb ) Shaq O'Neal: eFG – 51% . . iFG – 51% ( 6-10 . . 256 lb ) Al Jefferson: ( center only ) eFG – 56% . . iFG – 58% ( 7-1 . . 235 lb ) Tyson Chandler: eFG – 54% . . iFG – 52% ( 7-0 . . 265 lb ) Chris Kaman: eFG – 49% . . iFG – 53% ( 6-11 . . 245 lb ) Andris Biedrins: eFG – 52% . . iFG – 55% ( 6-11 . . 250 lb ) Sam Dalembert: eFG - 51% . . iFG: 59% ( 6-9 . . 240 lbs ) Ben Wallace: eFG - 50% . . iFG: 57% ( 6-11 . . 235 lb ) Marcus Camby: eFG – 51% . . iFG: 60% ( 6-10 . . 252 lb ) Emeka Okafor: ( center only ) eFG – 50% . . iFG: 64% ( surprised? ) ( 7-0 . . 245 lb ) Andrew Bogut: ( center only ) eFG – 55% . . iFG – 57% ( 7-3 . . 260 lb ) Z. Ilgauskas: eFG - 50% . . iFG – 55% ( 7-0 . . 275 lb ) Andrew Bynum: eFG – 51% . . iFG – 53% ( 6-11 . . 280 lb ) ZaZa Pachulia: eFG – 50% . . iFG – 63% ( not shocked by that at all ) ( 7-0 . . 250 lb ) Mark Blount: eFG – 54% . . iFG – 56% ( 6-11 . . 265 lb ) Erick Dampier: eFG – 49% . . iFG - 57%

Definitely an A . . . for this draft. We had to somehow address the issues at center and point guard. Horford was the best option at center, and Acie will prove that he is the best option at PG. I can rest easy until the season starts . . unless we make a trade for somebody we have no business trading for.

Two of the three panelists agree with me. Horford and Law should be the picks, if the #3 isn't traded. ( paraphrasing what each guy said, when talking about the Hawks ) Len Elmore: "Horford will give the Hawks an inside presence, a low post scorer, and a big body that can bang people around and defend . . You can get a quality PG at #11 in Law or Crittenton." When asked the question for a Hawk fan in Atlanta . . "Would the Hawks be crazt to pass on Horford @ #3" . . . Elmore said YES. Kiki Vandeweigh: "I like Conley, but I'd take Horford as well to address the frontline issues. Knight has amassed a lot of talent in Atlanta. Sometimes, he's tight with giving up a young player. I know we ( Denver ) had a hard time prying away one of the young players. ( An indication that if a deal involving Nene or Miller was ever on the table, that they were looking for either Chill, Smoove, or Marvin in any deal ) "I'd also take Law to fill the point guard spot. He's a clutch performer and a guy you can put alongside Joe Johnson that he'll instantly respect" Doug Gottleib: "I disagree with both of you guys. They should take Mike Conley. They've passed on PGs in past drafts and they need to address this issue with the best PG available. If they take Horford, that means that they'll be admitting that one of the Williams' picks were a failure. Yes, Conley has problems with his shot. Yes he needs to bulk up a little. And yes, Law may be better right now. But Conley will be better long term. The Hawks aren't winning right now, so they should build for the future." ( Doug does not elaborate on who we should take at #11 ) Andy Katz: ( basically just reinterated that Horford would likely be the pick, and that Atlanta were looking at multiple teams for trading possibilities ) NO MENTION OF YI BY ANY OF THESE GUYS.

Quote: Horford is not a guy who will come in and immediately do anything worth talking about. When you talk about Low post scoring, you have to think about how a guy will perform against good trapping prostyle defense. Horford never was a volume scorer... I don't think he will be a double digit scorer as a pro. AND don't let the FG% fool you. He doesn't have many offensive moves. PERIOD. He has just been graced to be able to over power weaker players just like Shelden did. Well, that does not translate in the pros... If you want a truer picture of who Horford is, let's try to find him playing against Pro style competition. Click 1 Quote: Wright, the versatile sophomore who did his best work on the boards against Ball State, was inspired offensively from the opening tip. He made seven shots in the first half -- all but one coming deep in the paint, thanks to his array of slashing moves -- while grabbing five rebounds. "I knew I had to come out very aggressive," Wright said. "That's usually not the type of player that I am, but I knew that was the only way to approach this challenge." Click2 Click3 There are more games, but there is nothing exciting about Horford. He takes advantage of playing with other great players and he takes advantage of playing against ham and eggers who will never be in the pros. When he gets to the NBA, he will be Bison Dele or Dale Davis. That's right Diesel. Post the bad games that Horford had. Now go post the good ones. How about the two games vs Ohio St and the best center prospect since David Robinson? He had two double-doubles against the mighty Buckeyes. As for your man-crush on Yi . . Yi could very well be the next Boris Diaw . . the Atlanta version. The CBA that Yi played in, isn't even as good as the SEC. LOL @ Porter and Crump looking like Hall of Fame players in the CBA. That right there tells you all you need to know about the competition that Yi plays against. I don't dislike Yi, but it's obvious that this guy isn't anywhere close to ready to be a big time contributor in this league. He has to go to the perfect situation, in order to maximize what he can do. Yi's presence does more harm to hamper the development of Josh Smith, than Horford would. Yi and Josh have very similar games, with the exception that Josh is 10X more aggressive than Yi. He definitely isn't right for the Hawks. But anything and anybody that can get Marvin out of here, you'll approve of. Yi isn't even better than Marvin, and might not EVER be.

That's why you can't take him seriously in any deal concerning Marvin. He'll give up Marvin for a bag of Doritos and a Yoohoo.

Those Bobcat games were ugly. The most disappointing part of those 2 games for me, is that we'd played the perfect game against a Minnesota team, that was pretty hot at that time. I think they'd won like 10 out of 13 games before then. We go on the road, and literally tear that team apart. Then we play Charlotte, and have the exact same thing done to us on 2 consecutive nights. I'll say this about Yi. If this was the 2005 draft, and we were coming off of a 13 win season, I'd have no problem taking a chance on Yi. Because at that time, we were looking for a star player. That's part of the rationale behind taking Marvin. They believe that Marvin could one day become a star. I don't think they believed that Paul could do it. But as of right now, I'm totally against taking Yi, because he doesn't help us on the inside. We have our star player in JJ, and our developing star in Smoove, with the jury still out on Marvin. We need to address our problem areas now. Center and PG are our problem areas. Get two guys in here who can possibly address those areas. Put it like this. If the Hawks went out and acquired Vince Carter in a Marvin + #3 + fillers trade, we'd be a better team. We'd definitely be a more exciting team to watch. But we'd be a very flawed team because we'd still be weak on the interior and we'd still be totally dependent on the outside jumper. Even with a talent core of JJ, Carter, and Smoove, we'd be flawed once playoff time came around. The pressure would be tremendous on Smoove to provide both offense and defense, because we all know what happens to Vince under pressure. That's how I see Yi. If he had a post game, then I might could be swayed his way. But his post game is pretty much non-existant . . he struggles from the international 3-point line . . and he plays in a league where former SEC players dominate in? Nah. Too many red flags on that guy for me to go for him. I'm like you . . I really want to trade this pick. But if all of these teams are high on Horford, that may be telling us something. This organization has to do what's best for this team in order to get us in the playoffs next year . . not 2 - 3 years from now. These kids need to experience winning right away.

Quote: I just don't think Shelden can play at anywhere besides the 5 (no speed), so a three man rotation at the 4 and 5 between Smoove / Horford / Shelden would be fine. That rounds out to about 32 minutes a player. I think Shelden needs to improve how hard he works when he comes into a game. I saw how Chuck Hayes played last year in Houston, and he brought it just about every night. Chuck played PF . . and he's only 6-6. It'll be interesting to see if Houston re-signs him. They probably should, before some other team scoops him up. But back to Shelden. A lot of red flags went up about Shelden, starting with those summer league games. It was pretty obvious then that he couldn't create his own offense with any consistency. But I think he's the type of player that can do the dirty work for us, especially on the defensive end and on the boards. But you're right, I think he has to play the 5. Steve Smith pretty much said that all year during Hawks telecasts. LOL . . maybe Smitty needs to be the coach. Quote: Do you think we'll try to trade maybe Lue + Chillz around the trade deadline? I doubt either resigns with us (we MUST keep Josh Smith), and maybe we could get a backup wing or something? That's definitely a possibility. It'll depend where we are in the standings, and if the rookies are progressing at a fast rate. I don't see Lue or Chill being traded, if we're in the middle of a playoff run, unless we can trade them for a very good player. And I've said all along that I wouldn't trade Chill, Marvin, or Smoove, just to fill a need with a player that might have less talent. Young guys like that should be traded for proven vets, not more young talent or some stiff at center. Personally, I think the Hawks are going to take a chance to see what Chill's value is on the open market, just like they'll probably do with Smoove. If it's not too much, they may match any offer up to 5 million, to retain Chill. But whatever money Chill gets, is going to depend on how well this team is playing. If we're playing well, he'll get some press and his stock will go up. If we're still struggling, his market value won't skyrocket. The same goes for Smoove. Quote: Maybe Anthony Johnson can be to us what Eric Snow is to the Cavs. It appears Anthony went to the finals twice with the Nets half a decade ago, so he could maybe sit back and mentor our young guys. If anyone saw Eric Snow yelling at his teammates with 10 minutes left in game 4 of the finals (LeBron was chewing his nails...What a surprise) you'll know what I mean here. I like AJ a lot. He's definitely the type of vet that Woody prefers to have on this team. But I think a healthy Lue is better than AJ. And if the PG we take at #11 is ready to make a contribution, it may be a numbers game for AJ to get playing time. There will be certain situations in which AJ's presence and experience will definitely come in handy for us next year. If Speedy goes down again, AJ will definitely be a luxury for this team to have. But at the end of the day, talent will rise to the top. And whether it be Acie, Javaris, or Mike, one of those young PGs will have a great opportunity to seize that starting PG spot before the year is over. Quote: I think we have to be careful with our backcourt. If Joe is out and Childress is playing at the 3, that leaves us with a bunch of barely-6-footers running the backcourt. A backcourt of T. Lue and another PG will get harrassed. You said Acie plays good defense, so that helps. Northcyde, who do you compare Acie Law to? I'm hoping he turns out to be a bit like Mike James or Sam Cassell--cocky, but can back his play up (Mike James on the Raptors was a killer). If JJ goes down, we're definitely in trouble. But this is also the luxury of getting a Law. If need be, he can play a Ben Gordon type role, and be the scorer. If JJ went down, you'd probably see a Speedy - Law backcourt or a Speedy - Childress backcourt. When healthy, Speedy is strong and athletic. Matter of fact, he may be just as athletic as Conley. Speedy can handle the defensive duties at the point. But I see your concern. There are a lot of big 2-guards in this league. Law is 6-3. Just for perspective, here are the heights of the starting 2-guards, or guys who play a lot of the 2, in the playoffs. - Devin Harris ( DAL ): 6-3 - Jason Terry: 6-2 - Stepheh Jackson ( GS ): 6-8 - Jason Richardson ( GS ): 6-6 - Derek Fisher ( UTA ): 6-1 ( but he's tough like AJ and can defend 2's ) - Tracy McGrady ( HOU ): 6-8 - Mike Finley ( SA ): 6-7 - Manu Ginobli ( SA ): 6-6 ( I didn't realize he was this big . . I thought he was 6-4 ) - Allen Iverson ( DEN ): 6-0 ( but he's a scorer and can play the point ) - Raja Bell ( PHO ): 6-5 - Kobe Bryant ( LAL ) : 6-6 EAST - Rip Hamilton ( DET ): 6-7 - Grant Hill ( ORL ): 6-8 - Dwyane Wade ( MIA ): 6-4 - Ben Gordon ( CHI ): 6-3 - Anthony Parker ( TOR ): 6-5 - Morris Peterson ( TOR ): 6-7 - Richard Jefferson ( NJ ): 6-7 - Sasha Pavlovic ( CLE ): 6-7 - DeShawn Stevenson ( WAS ): 6-5 Hopefully with Smoove coming on last year when JJ was out, we could survive a little better. But we'd need production from everybody to do it. Quote: I'm kind of disappointed that you have ZaZa at #10 though. Even though we are hardly paying him anything, he's a wonderful center to bring right off the bench. Maybe as the season progresses and we face all these different teams, we can juggle around our lineup a bit. Personally, I thought that Shelden would move ZaZa down last year, eventually taking over the center spot. But he had trouble fouling people last year. Then he got hurt. We'll see how Shelden comes back next season. ZaZa I like. But he's inconsistent. Very inconsistent. And I don't think he has the desire to improve on the defensive end. He'll gamble for steals and sometimes steal the ball, but his man defense is horrible. What irritates me about ZaZa is the rebounding. He'll go all out to get his own miss, but not nearly as hard to get a defensive board. He's also a turnover machine in the post. If ZaZa is playing well ( 14.5 ppg . . 7.3 rebs . . 54.6% FG when we won ), the Hawks are usually in good position to win a game. If he isn't ( 10.9 ppg . . 6.8 rebs . . 42.8% FG when we lost ), we're usually having problems. 47% FG on the season is good . . if you're playing SG, SF, or are a shooting/scoring PF. If you're a center, especially a role playing center, you need to be well over 50% FG. If Horford is the real deal, and can defend as well as score, ZaZa's minutes are going to drastically go down. If not, then ZaZa will have to play to provide offense in the paint. Quote: I agree about us being a deep team. Even this last year with a healthy lineup we were about 9 deep. I wouldn't mind just seeing Salim go at this point. I'm thinking Childress and Acie (ASSUMING he's drafted) could cover up what Salim did with this team. What could we trade Salim for anyway? Would he merit us a 2nd round pick? Thanks for clearing it all up, Northcyde If I'm Salim's agent, I'm setting him up to go play with Kobe in LA ( because LA would be foolish to trade Kobe. You keep him there and call his bluff about not playing for the season. But you DON'T trade him under ANY circumstances. Let his azz cry. ) I'm a Salim fan. I like to see the kid play well and I root for him probably more than any other Hawk. But he's like ZaZa . . too inconsistent. Salim could very easily be Kobe's "Steve Kerr" in LA. And he's not afraid to take that big shot. Salim had a big chance to really show the team and the league what he could do as a player when all of the PGs started to go down. But he didn't elevate his level of play until it was way too late for us. No doubt that Salim could get us a 2nd round pick, if we traded him right now to a veteran, playoff team that needs a shooter ( LA, Cleveland, Orlando, etc ). But a team can always wait until his contract runs out next year, and just sign him then. So unless he's a filler in some package deal with Chill or Marvin, to bring in a very good veteran, he'll probably be on the roster next year.

Here's something else about that 8 game stretch. During that stretch, we also got DESTROYED on the boards. Detroit: -9 Cleveland: -6 Houston: -9 San Antonio: -11 Raptors: -12 Clippers: +1 ( the only game we won during this stretch ) Indiana: -11 Hornets: +2 ( but we shot 33% that game while the Hornets shot 52% ) You can't win ballgames when your frontline is getting dominated like that. We HAVE to address that. In Horford, we have to have the potential to keep a very good player on the floor at the 4 or 5 spot, even when Smoove gets in foul trouble. We couldn't do that last year. If we take Horford, we'll have the ability to do it this year. And if we take Law, we might not go through significant droughts throughout games, due to his scoring and playmaking ability. A guy like Yi, even if he can step into the league and be effective, can't address the issues that we have as a ballclub. If our 7-1 Chinese Dirk can't mix it up on the inside, and prefers to play on the outside, it does this team no good. We need an INSIDE player who can score on the inside AND defend. If we have a guy on the inside who can score, along with Smoove who can drive from the high post to score, it'll open things up even more on the outside. Here's something else, even when Smoove was in the lineup. Let's fast forward 8 days later, when the Hawks were "riding high" off of a 3-game win streak, and was looking at 2 games with the Bobcats in a home-and-home series. Win those 2 games, and the Hawks are right back in the thick of things as far as the playoffs go. But we all know what happened. Game 1 @ Atlanta: Bobcats 96 - Hawks 75 The telling stat of the game? Rebounding. The Hawks were outrebounded 47 - 31 in that game. In fact, Okafor and Wallace of the Bobcats almost outrebounded the entire Hawk team by themselves!! ( 28 - 31 ) It was a situation in which that frontline, who wasn't any bigger than we were, completely outworked us from start to finish. Smoove and Marvin only had 4 rebounds a piece, despite playing 33+ minutes in that game. Shelden had 5 rebounds ( in 20 minutes ). And JJ led the team with 6 rebounds. The Cats took it right to us. And the 15 offensive boards they grabbed that game was the difference. Different night, same result, but the reason for losing was different. Game 2 @ Charlotte: Bobcats 104 - Hawks 85 Hawks had the rebounding edge 27 - 25. Hawks shot 51% FG and 86% from the FT line. Even Royal Ivey, who started at the point, scored 12 points in 34 minutes of playing time. So we should've won, right? LOL . . not when you let the Bobcats shoot 65% FG Now granted, Charlotte was hitting everything thing they threw up from the outside, but we couldn't stop them inside either. Okafor had 19 points on 8 - 9 shooting Wallace had 12 points on 4 - 7 shoting Matt Carroll had 22 points on 9 - 12 shooting Adam Morrison lit us up for 18 points on 8 - 14 shooting The Hawks? Oh JJ, Marvin, Ivey, and Chill played well. But guess what we got out of the interior people. Smoove: 2 points . . 4 rebounds . . 4 turnovers in 17 minutes ( This was the famous "flip the crowd with the double-bird middle finger" game, in which Smoove got ejected midway through the 2nd quarter ) Wright: 6 points . . 2 rebounds . . 5 fouls Shelden: 0 points . . 5 rebounds ZaZa: 2 points . . 3 rebounds . . 1 - 8 FG Smoove wasn't having a good game. But once he left, we virtually had no chance to do anything, because we had no one else on the frontline that could pick up where he left off either offensively or defensively. So to say that we need to address the PG issue, when our frontline is VERY SUSPECT, is turning a blind eye to the real problem of this team. The problem is that the Hawks are a SOFT BASKETBALL TEAM. We need to add tougher players to the lineup, preferably on the frontline. And if you do add a soft player, you better make sure that he can be a big time offensive threat night in and night out ( like Gasol ). The team needs Horford to improve the balance of this team on both ends of the floor. JJ needs Law so that he won't have to go through being double and triple-teamed on a nightly basis. It's as simple as that.

December 23rd - January 10th Anybody remember that time of the season last year? Of course you do. For one, that was the 8 game stretch in which Smoove was out of the lineup. Second, it was also the time in which Lue was out of the lineup. And it is probably most remembered for when the Hawks probably hit rock bottom as a team last year . . the New Orleans game on Jan. 10th, in which their 2nd team ran us out of Philips. Hawk Armageddon was in full effect, with the entire fan base calling for the heads of Woody and BK. Then Smoove comes back, doesn't have a good game, but the team played their best game of the year against the Pistons at home. If you remember, this was the game in which JJ made his first 11 shots. The loss of Smoove for those 8 games disrupted the flow of the team on defense and on offense. With the PGs being oft injured, Smoove was the 2nd best passer on the team, in terms of finding teammates. And teams had to at least respect Smith on offense. On defense, his presence as a shot blocker and as an active guy on the boards, was sorely missed by the team. When he came back into the lineup, things instantly got better. But back to the woes of that 8 game stretch: JJ struggled mightily. With no PG to get him the ball in the right spots and no threat whatsoever on the inside, teams doubled, even triple-teamed JJ. He went through the exact same thing that LeBron went through in the NBA Finals. The result? 37.8 minutes 15.1 ppg 3.0 assists 2.4 rebs 35.9% FG 27.3% 3FG 82% FT He even had a 9 turnover game @ Detroit in that stretch. Speedy was a non-factor during this stretch of the season. He couldn't even average over 10 ppg and barely averaged over 5 assists during this 8 game stretch. He did average almost 3 steals a game, but that's all he did. And the shooting was still horiffic. Salim? Pretty much MIA. Didn't have one game in which he shot over 35%. The complete opposite from what he showed at the end of the year. Lorenzen? Straight garbage. Scored 15 TOTAL points in the 6 games he played during this stretch, while only managing 5 rebounds. Solomon? He played better than Lorenzen, but not at the level to really help the team much. ZaZa? You'd think he'd be the one to really pick up the slack offensively. And he did in 2 of the 7 games he played in during that stretch, scoring 22 points in both contests. But here were his averages during that stretch. 30 minutes 12.5 ppg 4.8 rebs 40% FG 73% FT That's your starting center folks. Shooting 40% FG. Shelden? Shelden actually played some of his best ball during this stretch, but it's not like he took over games either. But he played about at the level most expected him to play when we drafted him. 27.6 minutes 8.5 ppg 8.9 rebs 0.4 blks 52% FG 100% FT ( 8 - 8 ) What about Marvin? Marvin, like JJ, stunk it up as well. 30.1 minutes 10.8 ppg 4.5 rebs 34.5% FG 81% FT 23% 3FG ( 3 - 13 ) The best player during this stretch? Josh Childress. Ironically, his first game back into the lienup was the very first game that Smoove was out. 12.7 ppg 6.3 rebs 1.3 blks ( led team ) 1.7 stls 48.5% FG 91% FT ( 21 - 23 ) Why do I post this? I post it to pretty much kill any perception that we don't need to try to address BOTH the frontline and the point guard position. It pretty much has to be Horford and Law, if a trade can't be made for that #3 pick to address the frontline. Our frontline is the reason why we flat out lose games, not the PG position. When you can't consistently score on the inside, and you can't defend, you're not going to win many games unless you play dang near perfect on offense. And for those of you who think Horford duplicates what Shelden does, let me ask you this: It's been documented plenty of times on this board, that Shelden is a double-double guy when he gets 25+ minutes of playing time. Even in the 8 game stretch I've cited, he's almost at that level. So you're trying to tell me that if Horford is at the very least on Shelden's level, that Horford wouldn't help the frontline immeadiately? Horford is a guy who can immeadiately come in, shoot 50% FG and defend the PF and C position better than any guy we have on the team thus far. If at minimum, Horford can step right in, start at center, and get us 11 points, 8 rebounds, and shoot 50% FG, that would be HUGE for this team. But his versatility on offense indicates that he may be able to put up somewhere between 10 - 15 ppg, if plays are ran for him. If he can defend the position, that makes the selection even that much better. And all indications point to Horford being able to defend both the 4 and the 5. And for you Smoove fans, playing Horford actually HELPS Smoove, because it keeps him from guarding the centers in this league. We all saw what happened with Amare in the final Phoenix game last year. With a Horford - Shelden rotation at center, it would allow Smoove to do what he does best, and that's roam the paint to be a great weak side defender. But he at least needs a guy who can hold the center up until he gets there.

Overall, I like the new look. Kind of wish the font was different on the numbers and lettering, but the overall uniform looks good. Definitely an upgrade over recent looks.

Funny . . I can't find that page linked to the Hawks webpage yet. $20 says that the guy who designs the Hawks webpage, took it upon himself to go ahead and leak the new look a day early. Either that, or he got the go-ahead to do it by the Hawks front office, before they actually put it on the webpage.

Hayley, you're making this too complicated, when it really isn't complicated at all. I don't think we have a glut at all, considering the personnel makeup of this team. Horford will play both the 4 and the 5. He'll probably start at the 5. Billy said that he'd like to see Shelden get more minutes at center. So that's what will happen. Remember, ZaZa is really a PF as well, so you could conceivably have Shelden at the 5 and ZaZa at the 4, if they happen to be on the floor together. With Horford, it'll give us a legit 4 man rotation at the 4 and 5 spots, with Solomon and maybe Lorenzen playing spot duty in the frontcourt. And while I'm not a fan of it, Smoove will probably see a few minutes a game at the 3 as well. C Depth chart: - Horford - Shelden - ZaZa - Lorenzen PF Depth Chart: - Smoove - Shelden - Horford - Solomon - ZaZa ************** As far as the PGs go, remember, both Lue and AJ's contract expires at the end of the 07 - 08 season. Our problem this time last year, was that the only PGs we had on the roster were Lue and Speedy. When both started to miss time, we had NO PG here. We had to resort to playing Ivey or even Childress at the point, along with JJ playing more PG than he probably thought he would. Adding Law to the fold only means that we'll have 2 PGs signed and on the roster for the 08 -09 season. This year, it may be in our best interest to keep the extra PGs around, seeing how Speedy is injury prone and how Lue, when healthy, is a pretty good shooter to insert into a game. ***************** Personally, I don't see where the concern is. Depth is not a bad thing to have. Our young players will get to play, if they prove themselves right away. If not, they'll sit behind the vets and learn. If Law proves right away that he's better than both Lue and AJ, he'll move up to #2 in the PG depth chart, while guys like Lue and AJ play spot roles at the 1 and 2 spot. Lue can be a shooter at the 2, while AJ can defend the 1 and the 2 position. The guy who should be worrying about his playing time, is Salim Stoudamire. He's going to be the odd man out, if he doesn't elevate his game. So here are my version of the Hawks, assuming we keep the picks and don't make any trades. PG - Speedy G - JJ G - Marvin F - Smoove F/C - Horford Bench: 6th man - Childress 7th man - Shelden 8th man - Lue 9th man - Law 10th man - ZaZa . . with AJ, Salim, Lorenzen and Solomon rounding out the bench. Two of those guys will not dress on a given night. That guy on most nights, will be Lorenzen. If we're playing a big frontline, Woody may opt to dress Lorenzen, and bench Solomon. And one of the guards will probably join him in street clothes. Right now, my guess is that guy would be AJ. If Salim gets off to the start he did last year, he'll be the one in street clothes, sulking on the bench. If Horford and Shelden prove that they can handle the 5 spot, you may see ZaZa fall out of the top 10 rotation, and probably rotate not dress out sometimes. If Law immeadiately proves that he can at the very least be the backup PG, it'll mean that either AJ and Salim will rotate not dressing out. No problem at all Hayley. We're going to be a well-rounded and DEEP team, if we keep the picks and don't move anybody.

Nic . . we all know there's a lot of propaganda on this board. All they have to do is THINK. Why are teams calling the Hawks about the #3 pick? They're not calling for Conley, or Yi. They're calling for it to take Horford. Why? Because he gives a team the option to play him at either PF or C. He can definitely play C on the NBA level, because he's athletic enough and smart enough to do it. He can do it on both ends of the court. LOL . . somebody needs to go back in time, and see how tall and heavy Hakeem Olajuwon was.

Teke, the problem is that most people also think that there isn't a tremendous difference between the #1 PG and the #2 PG in this draft. They play differently, but could be just as effective as the other. I seriously doubt that the GM's across the league, if given the choice, would take Conley at #3. On the flip side, most of them would take Horford at #3. Conley may be a top 7 talent in this draft, but he isn't a top 3 talent. The gap between Conley and Law just isn't that great, if there's even a gap at all. Paul was a top 3 talent. Deron was a top 5 talent. Felton, in my opinion, should've been nowhere near the top 5, but the Bobcats needed a PG and they took him. At best, he was a top 10 talent, not top 5. And the jury is definitely still out on Felton. He's a PG that thinks he can shoot, but really can't. Because of that, it hurts the Cats. And that acquisition hasn't advanced the Bobcats any further than where we are right now. It's like choosing between Jason Kidd in his prime and Chauncey Billups in his prime. Kidd is/was great, but that isn't a no-brainer type selection. Kidd can do just about everything well, and he's a great passing and defending PG. Billups can do those things too, just not as well as Kidd. But he does something much better than Kidd, and that is flat out win games for you offensively. Two different PGs. Both are good. And a team can win with either one. That's why if given the chance to upgrade another position on your team, you can put off choosing that PG, and take the 2nd or 3rd guy later on.

Quote: Smith + #3 for Howard? Wow. That's the only way Orlando is giving up Howard. Either that, or we give them both Smith and Marvin, and we keep the #3. But I think they'd rather have the #3 and Smith. This Howard talk is foolish, if you're not willing to give up Smith. You have to look at this from the other perspective as well. Dwight is their most marketable player. He's also their best player. At the least, Orlando has to get back something they can sell the franchise to, as well as a young talent that could possibly be at or just below Dwight's level. Smoove is that guy. For us, it pretty much solves our problem at center. It also allows Shelden to play 30+ minutes a game, to see if he can be that double-double guy that all the scouts think he could be. It also allows Marvin to become almost strictly an offensive player. Money wise, it's cheaper to go with Horford at #3, and see if he becomes something special playing the 5. But if we really want Howard, we're going to have to give up Smoove . . period.