TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: I think that we don't really need the kind of production that Randolph provides. 23/10 is really good.. But what's he shooting? From my understanding there's a black hole in PTL and he's wearing number 50. Zach Randolph makes Glenn Robinson look like Toni Kukoc. Think about why he is a black hole though. Other than Roy, there is no other reliable offensive option on that team. When you look at that Portland team, it almost resembles what we have here, in the fact that they have a lot of guys with "potential" who are shooting a fairly low percentage from the field, in regard to the positions they play. Zebo shoots almost 47% from the field. I pray to God that Smoove and Marvin could shoot 47% next year. They have the ability to do it, but they may not do it in the same breath. IF Smoove and Marvin could shoot 47% FG, that would be HUGE for us. Zack's problem is that he's not a team leader. And he'll never will be. But he's a guy who could be a very good #2 option next to a star player. I bet LeBron wishes he had a Zack Randolph to throw the ball to these days. So would Kobe. I think the mindset of this organzation and its fan base is going to have to change at some point VERY SOON. We just can't keep adding "potential" and young players to this lineup. At some point, we're going to have to trust that JJ, JS, JC, and Marvin can become the core of this team. And it also means that if we can add a good veteran player to this team, regardless of the position he plays, we should look to do it ASAP. The more I look at our options via the draft and via free agency, the more I truly believe that once the season starts, Josh Smith may be starting at the 5. He's already played the 5 a lot over the years, especially whenw we put Chill, Marvin, and JJ out on the floor with him. If he adds another 5 - 10 pounds of muscle to his frame this summer, he may be asked to do just that. Josh's problem is that he's a little soft. If he's asked to play center, he's going to have to get a lot tougher. I watched the last Phoenix game we played against them the other day. Josh played well, but Amare pretty much had his way with him. I'd like to see Smoove come back with a warrior type mindset, especially since he'll probably not have a contract extension by the time the season starts. He has the ability to play bigger than his 6-9 height, when he wants to. Don't call him a center though, because he isn't. He'll just be part of a 3 forward . . or 4 forward lineup ( depending if you want to call JJ a SF with SG skills ). But then again, it seems like this is the way the league is going these days. But Smoove may provide our best chance at winning, if he plays the 5 and is able to use his quickness to beat centers off the dribble. On the defensive end, he'll have to be a more displined man to man defender, and not try to block every shot. If we can't get a quality big man in the draft or via free agency, you'll see the Hawks play a lot of zone, and try to use their athleticism to frustrate teams on the defensive end. We're probably not going to be able to trade for a GOOD center ( not just a space eater ). So we may have to opt for trading to get somebody who can at least score in the low post. And when we do that, it'll probably be for a PF. It may be a PF with center-like skills in the low post ( Gasol or O'Neal ). Or it may be for a scoring PF, like a Zack Randolph. If we're able to put this lineup on the floor, I can't argue against it, because it would be an upgrade from what we put on the floor last year. PG - Law G - JJ F - Marvin ( or Chill ) . . whichever one is traded F - Randolph F - Smoove Bench: G - Speedy ( or Lue ) . . whichever one gets traded G - Salim G - AJ ( if he isn't included in a deal ) F - Solomon F - Shelden G/F/C - ??? If people TRULY want this team to run, Smoove will probably have to play the 5, in order for us to be a very effective running team. Let Smoove outrun the big man, while also having the option to throw it down low to a guy like Randolph, who can get you offense from the low block.

http://www.nba.com/news/usa_basketball_men...ht_players.html Good. Rather have him rested and completely healed for us, than playing qualifying games for the US this summer. Interesting additions though.

. . this summer, by using the picks and the young talent the Hawks have acquired for the past 3 years. We all know what we "need". Problem is, we probably can only get 1/2 of what we need via the draft. And if we trade for a center, there is no guarantee that we'll get one that is worth a damn. For the most part, teams aren't giving up their big man, if he's an adequate player. So the next alternative, is to use our picks and some of our young talent, to trade for a STAR PLAYER on another team, or a borderline star. Folks, the fact is that the NBA is built around STARS. You need more than one STAR on your team, regardless of position, to really see your squad make that jump to the next level. If a team acquires two star players, you may can get away with surrounding them with mediocre talent, and still be able to win . . and possibly win big. The history of the league has shown this trend time and time again. So maybe the mindset of fans need to change on this board. Instead of acquiring players with "potential" at "need" positions, maybe we need to just acquire veteran STAR talent, regardless of the position they play. We're in a position to really bring a big time player here, and not some young kid with potential. And we'll be able to do this RIGHT NOW, if we have to. Here are some names to look out for this summer. More will probably be looked at. ************* Paul Pierce ( 4 yrs - 74 million left on his deal ) When you look at Pierce, you see a guy who has played an an all-star level for the past 6 years. Unfortunately for Paul, he's in the exact same situation that Joe Johnson is in here in ATL. Surrounded by a lot of young talent with "potential", without another guy. The best player he's ever played with, has been Antoine Walker. Both were good enough back in 01 - 02 to see take the Celtics to the Eastern Conference Finals. For the Hawks, a JJ - Pierce dynamic duo would be hard to stop offensively. The trick would be to surround these guys with smart, hard-nosed defensive players, even if they lack great offensive skills. For Boston, it gives them a chance to completely start anew, and get Pierce's 74 million off of their books. With the #3 and #5 picks in this year's draft, they could go a long way in rebuilding that franchise the way they want to. Add a player like Marvin Williams, and they would really have a lot of young talent to choose from, if they chose to trade Pierce. #3 + Marvin + Lue + Wright . . gets that deal done, if Boston wants to acquire talent plus get 1/2 of Pierce's money off the books by next summer. Hawks potential lineup: PG) Law . . G) Pierce . . F) JJ . . F) Smith . . C) ZaZa Jermaine O'Neal ( 3 yrs - 62 million left on his deal ) Of course, this is the deal that would benefit the Hawks the most. It's an unlikely deal though, seeing that Indy probably isn't willing to part with Jermaine without getting a big time asset in return. The one thing in favor of the Hawks when dealing with Indy, is that they might be desperate right now. Dangling that #3 pick to them, after we took their #11 pick, may be enticing enough to pry O'Neal away from them. Here's the problem, they'd probably want Josh Smith. No way we can do that. So we'd have to play "chicken" with Indy, to see how bad they want the pick. And the Pacers have a few bad contracts on the books, with Dunleavy and Murphy, so they might be willing to make a deal, just for picks and potential cap room. This is a deal in which maybe Marvin and Chill would probably have to go, plus expiring contracts, in order for the deal to work. Either that, or get more teams involved. Hawks lineup: PG) Law ( or Lue ) . . G) JJ . . F) Smith . . F) S. Williams . . C) O'Neal Zack Randolph ( 4 yrs - 51 million left on deal ) A lot has already been said about Zack. And a lot of that is pure BS. Zebo is a baller, plain and simple. He's been a pretty steady 18 - 20 ppg and 9 - 10 rpb guy for the last 4 years. He's improved in areas in which he was weak. And he's learned how to effectively be a scoring option in this league. But it isn't his fault that he's played with a bunch of young players and old pot heads the past 4 years. As JJ will tell you, "I need help!!" But Zebo is not a STAR. He's a borderline one, but not a star. He's a good 2nd option complimentary player to a star. Put it like this, he's the 2005 version of Al Harrington with a better low post game. Offensively, he's what we'd hope Josh Smith will be next year. Question: Would you rather have a guy who you KNOW can get you 20 ppg and 10 rebs every night, or continue to wait to see if Marvin, Smoove or Chill develop? There's no right or wrong answer to this, especially if you think that Marvin or Smoove can be a 20 and 10 guy very soon. If not, then you at least have to consider the Zebo option here. If Portland wants the #3 pick that bad, I'll take Zebo. But I'd offer Portland the absolute minimum I could, to get him here. ( #3 + Lue + Wright + Shelden ). We don't necessarily need Zack, but he would be a talent upgrade here. If we did acquire Randolph, the Hawks would seriously have to consider playing Smoove as an athletic 5. Hawks Lineup: PG) Law . . G) JJ . . F) Marvin . . F) Zebo . . F) Smoove If you like Golden State's style of play, that's a team that you can run with, and still have players like Chill, Marvin, Salim, ZaZa and Solomon to come off the bench. Shawn Marion ( 2 yrs - 33.5 million . . player option in 08 ) Funny that I even mention a Phoenix player in this mix. Contrary to rumors, I don't believe for one second that Phoenix will trade Amare, so I won't even list him in a trade scenario. But they will trade Marion . . . in a heartbeat. And they'll do it not only to keep from going into Luxury Tax land next year. They'll do it to possibly make more room for Diaw to really have a chance to earn his money. This deal was mentioned yesterday by a Phoenix fan on another board. Speedy + Marvin + Chill . . for Marion. Granted, I don't think any team would trade for Speedy, and his contract. But it's not as "dumb" as it may seem on the surface. For Phoenix, Speedy ( if he became healthy ), could serve as their defensive backup PG for Nash. Right now, no one really fills that role, seeing that Barboas plays NO DEFENSE whatsoever. When talking about Childress, he's a guy that may really become good in a running system like that. ( many of you have mentioned that he'd be good on a Western team, because they play more uptempo ). But Marvin is the wildcard in this. Would giving up Marvin be a little too much, for just Marion? I think it would. Instead, I'd offer them ZaZa or the #11 pick instead. For the Hawks, Marion improves this defense, especially in the 1/2 court, by leaps and bounds. He would immeadiately become our defensive stopper when guarding the superstar 2's and 3's in this league. And he's shown the ability to effectively guard very good 4's in this league as well. The great fallacy of this fan base is that we lose games because of the issues at PG. It's a factor in why we lose, but it isn't the biggest reason. The Hawks lose, simply because they can't defend GOOD FRONTCOURT PLAYERS. Whether it be at the 4 or the 5, we have a problem slowing down the good players, and a hard time stopping even scrubs who come against us. Add Marion to the mix, and it would go a long way to addressing that, especially since there is no defensive center on the horizon that we can probably get. Hawks lineup . . from original trade involving Speedy, Chill, and Marvin: G) Law (#11) . . G) JJ . . F) Marion . . F) Smoove . . F/C) ZaZa . . . . with Lue, Salim, Solomon, (#3) Wright and Shelden backing them up. One major problem with acquiring Marion. He has a player option at the end of the 2008 season. That means that he could be here only one year, then bounce right out of here. If the Hawks were to deal for Marion, they'd have to make sure that they could re-sign him to an extension. And that extension would probably have to be somewhere less than 10 million per. ************* The point is this folks. We're probably making a move to bring in an established talent here with this #3 pick. No more time to wait on potential. And since there are no star or impact players who can be BIG TIME right away after Oden and Durant go off the board, it's probably best that we trade the pick to get a talent like that. Drafting Conley has the same parameters that drafting Chris Paul had. If we take him at #3, you better damn well make sure that he's isn't the next T.J. Ford . . but the next Isaiah Thomas or the next Nate "Tiny" Archibald. You don't settle for just the best PG in this draft, if he doesn't look like he'll be a star right away. But if you have a chance to trade that #3 pick for a star, even if it's a star in a position you don't need, you make the move. If you take the PG, make sure that he has star written all over him, not just "good, fill the need PG". Tim Duncan won a title with Rasho Nesterovic as his center. Karl Malone got to the finals with Greg Oestertag in the starting lineup. Kobe and Shaq won titles with Derek Fisher "running" the point. LeBron is in the conference finals, without a legit PG and just a decent offensive center. Stars are who take you to the promise land. Role players help you win the whole thing. We're at a point now where we need to get the star talent where we can, then fill the needs elsewhere with quality players. Remember . . BK is probably running out of time as well. So whatever moves he makes this summer, will have to be moves that really put us in position to make the playoffs NEXT YEAR . . not in 2 - 3 years. And the quickest way a team can do that, is to add another player the caliber, or just below a Joe Johnson . . even if he is another forward or 2-guard. You just put him beside JJ, and see if both of them can get it done, with the help of the remaining young talent left on the squad.

Oh God . . we're going to take Yi aren't we? (( breathing )) As long as we get Law at #11 . . we'll be OK. Acie is the crown jewel for the Hawks. Dammit Billy . . just come up with a damn good trade, and get us a good vet, or a couple of them.

LOL @ teke . . . I agree. When I saw Milwaukee at #6, I was like . . Oh man, we might actually get into the top 3. After that commercial break, I had a bad feeling that we were going to get called at #3, even though I was praying it wasn't. Being at #3 isn't the worst case scenario . . . but it's close. Being at #3 means that we actually have to "think" about what we're going to do with the pick, instead of thinking about how to trade Marvin or Chill or Shelden, to compliment JJ, Smoove and Durant or Oden. Right now, I'd just rather make a trade, and bring an established player here that can help us right away. At #11 . . take Law.

Quote: PG - Speedy or Law G - JJ F - Marvin F - Shelden ( he'll probably have to start ) F/C - Gasol Actually, I forgot about us acquiring the #4 pick from Memphis. We could actually use that to get Brandan Wright. So Shelden may or may not have to start. In either case, we'd have Gasol in the middle, JJ on the outside, and Marvin as the #3 scorer.

Quote: Marvin is a duplicate of a position of strength. I don't think he completes that deal. Not necessarily. Marvin is a much better mid-range shooter and shoots better from the line than both Gay and Warrick. Gay is the better slasher and 3 point shooter. Warrick is the most physical of the 3 and better post player. Swift plays the 4 and the 5. Gay routinely moves to the 2, whenever Mike Miller is out of the game. Warrick can play both the 3 and the 4. Marvin can play the 2, 3, and 4, in Memphis' offense. They'll find minutes for him easily, if a trade was made for him. If they want to go super athletic, they won't turn down acquiring another athlete who can shoot the ball.

Quote: Quote: He put the Grizz on his back and took them to the playoffs the last two or three years so I'm not sure where that 4th quarter stuff is coming from. He didn't do great in the playoffs but that was with the entire defens designed to shut him down and he got no help from his team. He'd at least have JJ and Smoove here. There is just something about him that bothers me. Hell though, maybe he's the best option. The team does need somebody that can score inside. If that'z the best out there what else can you do? Hot, he's a Abdur-Rahim type player in which he's a good talent, but he's not the guy you want being the star or the "go-to-guy" on the team. JJ is our guy. He's proven that he can be THE guy. If we traded for Gasol, or any other decent post player, you now create an inside-outside threat for this team, that frees up not only JJ, but everybody else on the team. But I think Memphis would be asking for Smoove in exchange for Gasol. I don't know how well that would sit with Hawk fans who are absolutely in love with Josh.

Quote: I think we're trading the #3 pick to Grizzlies for Gasol and their first pick or some vet point guard off their team. The way this sounds it makes me think Knight doesn't want to keep the pick. Memphis wants a PG now, to go along with their athletic forwards. If push came to shove, they could always move Stromile Swift back to the 5 spot, and finally give him the chance to be the starter. Gasol + Memphis #4 for #3 + Marvin and ZaZa . . would get the deal done. Memphis might ask for more though . . like a sign and traded Josh Smith + #3 for Gasol + #4. That would be an interesting deal for both sides. Smoove fans wouldn't like it at all. Shelden fans would finally get to see if Shelden can average a double-double as a starter, while Marvin gets a chance to flourish as the #3, possibly the #2 option. Memphis lineup: PG - Conley G - Miller F - hmmm . . . Rudy Gay or Marvin F - Warrick F/C - Swift or PG - Conley G - Miller F - Gay F - Warrick F - Smith That's definitely a running team, and might be the most athletic in the league . . even more than ours. For us: PG - Speedy or Law @ #11? G - JJ F - Chill F - Smoove F/C - Gasol or PG - Speedy or Law G - JJ F - Marvin F - Shelden ( he'll probably have to start ) F/C - Gasol

Quote: Alot of you act like those 2 are great and would instantly turn our team around. They were on the same team and couldnt win a ncaa title much less an have a great impact in the nba right away. They were a bad call away from going out in round 2 to Xavier for God sake. Im not saying they wont be stars down the road but it will take time. I would actually rather get Durant and Law with pick 2 and 11 or 1 and 11. I know we need size more than anything and Oden has that. I know there is no way we pass him up with pick 1 but Durant is almost a lock to be the way better player. LOL . . they should've lost to my Vols in the Sweet 16. I can't believe they blew that game. Forget Oden and Conley . . give me Oden and Law. I can definitely roll with that. That'll be like Christmas for me.

Quote: Follow along what might have occurred had the Hawks not dealt for JJ (only one possible scenario of course): 1) we keep Diaw (no big deal) OK Quote: 2) we keep the 2006 #21 pick - which was used for Rondo. Marcus Williams went #22 and we know BK was interested in him. I say we would have picked Marcus Williams, likely. I could see that . . OK. Quote: 3) we would be certain to have our pick in this draft, likely #5. This becomes Hibbert, most likely. I disagree. I think we'd been one of the 3 worst teams in the league going into this draft. We'd probably be in the same position as a Boston, with about 20 - 26 wins . . that is, if we were healthy. It may be worse if we had the same amount and the same type of injuries we had this year. So the pick probably becomes Oden or Durant. Quote: 4) most importantly, our ownership is not fractured by the JJ deal fallout. Legal trouble perhaps never occur. I can see that . . OK. Quote: 5) Since we pick Marcus Williams in June 06, we never sign Speedy in July 06. True . . but we still might have major problems at the PG postion. Marcus struggled this year playing the point in Jersey at times this year. He has talent, no doubt about that. But he makes silly, if not stupid turnovers as well, by trying to do way too much. Add the fact that he only shot 39.5% FG, and we'd potentially still have a BIG PROBLEM at the point. In fact, Tyronn Lue may have very well have still been the starter going into this season, even if we'd drafted Marcus. And if Lue goes down in the same fashion that he did this year, the burden of playing the point would've went to Marcus. Would he respond positiviely and prove that he's the future PG of the Hawks? Or would he prove why he dropped from a top 10 pick, all the way into the 20s? It's conceivable that we'd still be in the market for a PG. Quote: 6) Since we have no JJ, we don't need to pick Shelden at #5. We pick Roy instead because we still have a huge hole at SG. If we had no JJ, I don't think the Hawks win more than 15 - 20 games in the 2005 - 06 season. And if that's the case, we're probably a top 3 lottery team, with the worst record going into the draft. JJ was a big reason why Harrington played so well in the 05 - 06 season. JJ probably got 2 assists a game from Harrington converting off of his passes. Sometimes, those assists came because Harrington converted on 3 pointers. So JJ probably contributed 4 - 7 points to Harrington every game. But for the 06 - 07 squad, this is how important JJ was to the Hawks this year: * when JJ scored 30 or more points, the Hawks were 12 - 7 * when JJ scored 25 or more points, the Hawks were 18 - 18 * when JJ scored less than 20 points, the Hawks were 1 - 12 So if he had a bad game, we were dead in the water . . period. If he had a good game, we at least had a fighting chance. In the NBA, if you're not a well balanced team in which many guys can score at least double digits every night, you better have a guy on your squad that can get you 25 points on any given night. A team would preferably like to have 2 or 3 of those guys. The Hawks only had one. And if JJ weren't here, they wouldn't have any guy like that on the squad. And they wouldn't have a balanced enough team to depend on 7 - 8 guys to score on a given night. Quote: 7) we probably still pick Solo because we still are weak in the front court at that point. I can see that . . OK. Quote: 8) We still have the #11 pick in the 2007 draft - we can take BPA. OK. Quote: 9) we have a ton more cap room - no JJ and no speedy. Probably BK would have made another dumb free agent signing but we can't know for sure. OK. Quote: Ultimate woulda-coulda-shoulda team: Marcus Williams / Lue Roy / Chills Marvin / Diaw Smoove / Solo / #11 pick Hibbert / Zaza I'll break it down even further in the 3 seasons you're talking about: 2005 - 06 squad: PG - Lue, Salim, Ivey G - Chill, Diaw, Donta F - Smoove, Marvin F - Harrington, Batista C - ZaZa, Edwards Offseason question #1: What do you do with Al Harrington at this point? On this team, he'd obviously be the best player on the squad. And his contract is coming up at the end of the 06 season. Do you re-sign Al, or let him walk? If you let him walk, you better be sure that you can either get a big name FA to come here that can SCORE, or you better make sure that one of the kids you have on your roster, can become that scorer. Offseason question #2: Who do you take in the draft, if you have the #1 or #2 pick? Like I said before. Without JJ, that 05 - 06 team may be looking at being one of the worst 2 teams in the league. So we're not looking at a #5 pick, we're looking at a #1 or #2 pick. BK was high on Bargnani, so does he take him? How about Aldridge? Thomas? God forbid . . but Morrison? The one guy that I don't think BK takes, is Foye or Roy, if he's picking #1 or #2. Roy would definitely be a good pick for that team, seeing that you still have a scoring need ( especially if Al is gone ). If you get the #2 or #3 pick, maybe you trade down to get Roy. But I think Aldridge may be the route that he goes here if he has a top 2 pick. * Also of note: If that 05 - 06 squad finished with the worst record, I think that Woody is fired, or at least given a very short leash going into the 06 - 07 season. No 3 - 10 starts would be tolerated from Woody in 06 - 07, if the team was healthy. The hook would probably be quick. 2006 - 07 squad: PG - Lue, Marcus Williams, Ivey G - Chill, Salim F - Marvin, Diaw ( if re-signed ) F - Smoove, Solomon C - Aldridge, ZaZa, Batista Here's a scenario for you. I think if this is the team that is going into the 06 - 07 season, the one guy that has a chance to really break out and be the scoring option, is none other than Salim Stoudamire. When you look at this team without a JJ, Salim is the only guy, outside of Lue, who is capable of pouring in 20 - 25 ppg at any given time. Remember, Smoove hadn't shown the ability to do that early last year. And Chill was good for a solid 15 points, but not a solid 20. Marvin wasn't ready yet. Diaw would still be a scared rabbit on offense, looking to play more of a passing point forward, than look for his own offense. Aldridge would slowly be growing into his own, but far from a difference maker type of player. The offensive leaders would be Lue and Salim. Which means that we would probably live and die by the jumper more than ever. (( And this is why it's probably more likely that the Hawks re-signed Harrington, than trade him and get the #11 pick. They'd have to have SOMEBODY for offense. But if they did trade him, it would be for Marvin to immeadiately try to step in and get the job done. Question is, could he do it right away? )) I mean, look at that squad? The only guys who could create their own offense, would be Lue and Salim. Chill could still be the mini-slasher, but he relies on others to get him the ball when open so that he can knock down the shot. Marvin might start out slow, but develop as the season went along. Maybe Smoove breaks out at the PF spot earlier than expected. The situation may be far worse going into this draft with that team, than people think it is with our current squad. Offseason question #1: Do we break the bank and go after Billups? Cap space wouldn't be a problem with this team. We'd have more than enough money to go after any top notch UFA. But the question is always . . will they sign with us, even if we overpay? If they fail to get Billups, do the Hawks immeadiately go after a guy like Vince Carter, if he were to opt out of his one year remaining deal in Jersey? Offseason question #2: Oden or Durant? I could imagine the debate on this board now, if faced with this decision. * Remember, no 25 ppg scorer in JJ to rely on. * Center wouldn't necessarily be a position of need, seeing that we have Aldridge there. Now, if it's the belief that Aldridge would be a much better PF, than Center, then we could slide him there, and make a BIG DECISION on whether to start Josh Smith or Marvin. * Smoove may or may not have developed to where he is now, so the decision isn't a no-brainer. * Same with Marvin. He may be better than he is right now, because he'd be given the chance to start right away in his rookie year. * Chill would be Chill. * Lue would be the leader, but highly expendible. * Salim would either be rotting away on the bench, or be the "Monta Ellis" of our team, leading the team in scoring, as a 6th or 7th man. As many questions as we have now, there would be even MORE questions surrounding this team at this point right now. So do you get the center that can play great defense, but is still developing as an offensive force? Or do you get another SF, that has the capability to become the next great scorer in this league in a very few years? I think you would still have to go with Oden, and hope that Smoove and Marvin are developing into nice players by now. Offseason question #3: Who do you take at #11? Even more debate would surround this selection. If Williams plays lackluster in his rookie season, would Hawk fans still be crying about obtaining a PG, especially with Lue being in his last year? Or would we be looking for a guy who could score in bunches, regardless of position? The choices may still boil down to Law or Crittenton. Whomever was chosen at #11, they'd probably have to show the ability to score the basketball. Projected 2007 - 08 lineup: PG - Lue, Marcus G - Chill, Salim F - Smoove, Marvin F - Aldridge, Solomon C - Oden, ZaZa #11 pick: choose between Critt or Law or another scorer at any position. Quote: So, maybe even our best moves have bit us in the arse. We can't really judge it completely until tonight. If we don't get a top 3 pick this year, we'll be joining mediocre team hell. Our team will probably be good enough to win 40 games, never contend, no future lotto chances, and be capped out to boot. However, if we do get a top 3 pick (even #3) - it's redemption time. We will have assembled enough capital in order to at least have a chance. With Oden we would be undeniably be the best positioned team in the East for a bright future in a couple of years. I personally think the JJ move saved us from being the 1999 - 2002 Chicago Bulls. In 4 years, they won 13, 17, 15, and 21 games . . despite having drafted: * Elton Brand #1 and Ron Artest #16 in 1999. * Marcus Fizer #4 and Jamal Crawford #8 in 2000. ( they had three 2nd round picks that year too. The #32, #33, and #34 picks. ) * Eddy Curry #4 and trading Brand for Tyson Chandler, who went #2, in 2001. * and Jay Williams #2, who had a horrible rookie year that season, before basially ending his career with that motorcycle accident. The JJ move gave us a bonafide star to build the team around, with the chance to have our young talent develop as well. The vast majority of the time, young teams just don't win in this league. It's proven every year. You'll see a team slip through the cracks here and there. But for the most part, they just don't win. The veteran teams win. It's no coincidence that San Antonio and Detroit are 2 of the final 4 teams for the championship. This isn't saying that I would've done all of the moves that BK has done. It's pretty obvious to everyone that we should've gotten one of the PGs instead of Marvin, because both PGs seem to be more NBA ready than Marvin, even if he turns out to be the better player in the future. But the JJ trade? I'd do that again in a heartbeat. I'd just hope that the team wouldn't be as injured in the 06 - 07 campaign.

Quote: If the Bucks get the #1 pick, I don't want any "told you so"s from the pro-tanking crowd. If the Hawks or Seattle gets the #1 pick, I don't want any "told you so"s from the anti-tanking crowd. You CANNOT use the hindsight of the results of the lottery as part of your argument, as that is information we didn't have when we could have tanked. All rational arguments only discuss the odds we would have going in to the lottery based on our position in the standings, as that's the only thing we could control/know. And more importantly, we're all in this thing together, so there's no point in bickering about what we should have done. Agreed. In about 6 hours, this will be a moot point, no matter where we land. Even the ones of us who were heavily against tanking, aren't rooting against the Hawks not getting a top 2 pick at this point now.

Quote: Harrington and Walker were guys rounding out our roster. The more capable our young guys have become the less we see vets here getting playing time. AJ didn't take time away from any young guys because unfortunately we don't have any at that position. What he is saying is true. This is why Delk, Barry, Googs, Slava couldn't get off the bench even though they might have been superior to the guys who were playing at the time. And its why we don't trade for decent veterans with inflated contracts. I fully expect at least one of AJ, Speedy, Lue to be traded. Actually, you could make the case that Walker's presence actually stunted Harrington's development as a player here with the Hawks. I was all for Al getting the chance to be "the man" here. I thought that he and JT would make for an interesting duo. But BK traded JT and Hendu the first chance he got, to acquire Walker. If it worked, BK would be hailed as a genius becaue Walker still had talent at the time, even if he did have the 2nd worst shot selection in the league ( #1 is Jamal Crawford ). If we dramatically improved, Walker probably signs an extension with us, and the Hawks are back in the playoffs. LOL . . but I think most hardcore b-ball fans knew that Walker being the leader and "go-to-guy" on this team, wouldn't work at all. So if it didn't work, BK could always say that the Walker deal was made because he was an expiring contract and an easy way to get JT and Hendu's salary off the books a full year early. And that's what the deal accomplished. And it gave us enough money to go after JJ. But by doing that, he killed Al's chance to possibly be "the man". LOL . . then he did it again with the JJ deal. Remember, Al was still a young guy when we acquired him ( 24 ) So now, I guess he's fully committed to giving the Joshs and Marvin every opportunity to develop, without bringing in somebody that can possibly take major minutes away from them. We'll see if that holds true with this draft.

Quote: http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-bl..._to_make_1.html Sounds to me like BK is quite a jerk. Also i found something wierd about this quote below. "But for the long term good of the franchise it’s hard to take on a big contract like that for a short time because you could stymie the growth of your young guys, and you could also limit any other opportunities you might have because of the [salary] numbers involved." Didnt we do that with anthony johnson? No . . because AJ's deal isn't a big contract. The 2.8 million that AJ will make next year is nothing. It's when you combine AJ's 2.8, with Lo Wright's 3.2, with Lue's 3.5, and Speedy's 6.3 million next year, where it becomes a problem. But AJ's number by itself still only makes him the 8th highest paid Hawk on the team next year. ( 9th, if Josh Smith signs an extension this summer ) What BK is talking about, is doing something that I think he should do ( if it became available ). And that is go after a Jason Kidd, even though he's owed another $40 million over the next 2 years. Add Jason Kidd to this team, and we're immeadiately in the playoffs barring an injury to him. It's also a quick fix to the PG problem and the perimeter defense problem. But at the same time, you're only looking at him being here for 2 years, unless he signs an extension for far less money. And you're probably looking at giving up one or two of the young players that BK covets, before he knows what his true ceiling as a player is. If Kidd coming here didn't work, we're not only screwed, we're probably in borderline luxury tax land while being screwed, with no way to upgrade the team until Kidd leaves. Plus, you would have the prospect of JJ definitely leaving the year after Kidd's contract ran out. It's kind of the situation that Jersey has found themselves in for the past 2 years. BK is definitely a dude that could care less what anybody thinks. When you read this article, you wonder if he still doesn't have the utmost confidence that the combo of Lue, AJ, and Speedy can get it done here. If that's the case, he'll say no to a PG when the draft comes around.

Question: If the three PGs are off the board, who do we take at #11? A lot of people on this board think that Critt is a top 10 talent. If he moves into the top 10, we could very well see the 3 PGs go before our #11 pick. If it's a choice between Critt and Hawes, BK might take Critt . . if anything, for PR purposes. Nothing like taking the local college star that everybody likes, to revitalize interest into the season. But as a player that could make an immeadiate impact, Hawes may be the guy on OUR team NEXT year. I say that because Hawes could beat out ZaZa for the starting C spot, easier than Critt could beat out Speedy, AJ, or Lue for the starting PG spot. Woody loves his vets. So if Conley and Law are gone, I could see BK leaning either way. People might not like the Hawes pick, but he's an immeadiate upgrade over Wright and may be a more sound offensive player than ZaZa already. Defensively, we'd still suffer in the middle. But the middle would have a solid offensive threat in Hawes. Conley vs Hawes . . give me Conley Law vs Hawes . . give me Law Critt vs Hawes . . ish, flip a coin, and I could live with either pick.

Here's mine: 1) Boston - because the NBA needs Boston to be back in the spotlight in the Eastern Conference. They'll take Oden and try to revitalize their franchise. 2) Charlotte - they'll get it because Jordan is part of their organization now. What better way to repay him for growing the popularity of the NBA in the late 80s and throughout the 90s, by giving him the #2 pick, so that he can take Durant. 3) Memphis - usually the team that has the best chance overall, doesn't fall out of the top 3 once the lottery results come out. Memphis has been in this position before, and has never landed the #1 pick. Do they take Hibbert to add a center to their roster? Or do they take a big gamble, and take Conley at #3, so that they can truly play the uptempo style that they want to play? I say they go with Conley.

But it was a bad deal that Indiana made though Walter. Most people said that in the beginning, even though the deal looked like it would work for Indy. I didn't see anybody saying that the Golden St. side of that deal was bad. The vast majority of "experts" loved the deal for G. State. Like I said Walter . . go post on a RealGM board, and see if the Minny fans agree with you. If they do, post a link of the convo, saying where they would agree to the deal. You talk about one tiny aspect of a deal, like deals aren't broken because of one tiny aspect. You don't like my idea because anything I suggest isn't good enough for you . . because it disagrees with the Walter "grand plan" for the Hawks. ************ My idea if we got the #3 pick? Try to package Marvin + fillers ( the expiring contracts of the PGs ) and the pick to bring an established player here . . a player that another team has given up on. Not a prospect. Give me a player that I know that can play. A Zack Randolph. A Rashard Lewis. A Jason Kidd ( if the Nets decide to blow up everything ). Heck, I'd rather have a deal in which we'd land Lamar Odom here, instead of Bynum. Put Odom at the 3 . . keep Smoove at the 4 . . and the Hawks rapidly improve, even without a decent big man. Odom could essentially play the point forward for us, and make the entire team better, especially JJ. But I choose to be realistic, and not live in some fantasy trade world, where every deal I suggest would be feesible AND accepted by the other team. The real world isn't like that. So this is what I would do. At #3 . . I'd take Hibbert At #11 . . I'd take Law Simple as that. Now if someone wanted to make an offer for Hibbert + marvin + one of the PGs, for a good veteran player, I'd listen. If not, I'll role with Hibbert and Marvin. PG - Speedy ( or Law ) G - JJ F - Marvin F - Smoove C - Hibbert But of course, you wouldn't like that because you don't think Marvin will improve. So be it. It's like I've said many times before. It's more important for the core of this team to dramatically improve ( JJ, Smoove, Marvin, and possibly Chill ), than to hope that whoever we bring in here, will put us into contention. I don't see any regression in JJ, Smoove, Marvin, or Chill. If we kept all of them, that's just fine with me. And I'd have no problem rolling with Hibbert as our "project" center. And I have every bit of confidence that Law could easily be the PG for this team right off the bat, if need be. Now disagree with my plan. I have no problem with it. But you go post your ideas on the boards that you're trying to trade with, and see if they agree with you . . or laugh you off of their board. Simple as that.

Quote: Coach, I agree with the essence of what you're saying... Becuase it's true.. but there's one thing you're really missing... THE HYPE MACHINE... The Hype Machine was hard at work in the 2005 draft... Marvin and Bogut had the benefit of being two of the most hyped players in the history of the draft. The hype machine said that Marvin was the next James Worthy and that Bogut was better than Bill Walton. The Hype machine had people believing that Bogut bested Tim Duncan in the Olympics?? And Bogut helped out his own cause by talking tough... People thought that John Wayne had put on basketball shoes... But Marvin takes the cake. What did he do to deserve so much hype?? Nothing. Coming off the bench and being the right size propelled Marvin into the place where he was. The prognosticators (especially fans) tend to float to what they can't see and don't know more than what they can see and do. Chris Paul and Deron were the best prospects coming out of that draft, but the hype machine made Paul look too fragile for the game and made Deron seem too fat. It seems like they were running around calling him fatboy. So, I think the Hypemachine would have eventually chipped away everybody but Oden and Durant. Although Conley Jr. is getting the hypemachine ride this year. He'd probably be picked 5th. There's definitely something to that Diesel. ESPN has way too much power these days, over who becomes a star, and who they WANT to become a star. We've seen it in other spots, especially with young talent. - LeBron ( who they were right on ) - Michelle Wie ( who we haven't heard anything from in about a year. Maybe she'll concentrate on actually beating other women to get that fire to win, instead of just settling to make the cut on the men's tour ) - Freddy Adu ( the supposed savior of American soccer even at 14. Adu may be an average player at best on the MLS circut. ) - Sebastain Telfair ( next to LeBron, he probably got the most hype coming out of high school. ) - Maria Sharapova ( since she beat Serena at Wimbeldon 3 years ago, I don't think she's even won another major, even though most of the top women tennis players have been hurt off and on for the past 3 years ) But the NBA is definitely guilty for hyping up and even tearing down certain players. It's my hope that some of these teams will actually BELIEVE THE HYPE, and pass on Law in the top 10. But if you go by who are the best 10 players in this draft, Law is definitely in the top 10.

LOL. All you need is a BK latex mask with some real hair on it, and we couldn't tell the difference. This fan base would be calling on Al-Queda to bomb the Hawks headquarters, if we took Thaddeus.

I should've read the entire thread, before posting my comments. Diesel and Atlas pretty much summed up everything I was thinking. I could've saved about 30 minutes of typing. Walter needs to stop making these NBA Live type trades, in which he can make a deal and have the computer just immeadiately accept it because it fits under the cap.

Quote: The deal involved us getting rid of not-so-speedy Claxton. If you can't argue against the proposed deal, make up your own strawman deal to tear down. Suddenly Speedy's contract, MW, and 3rd pick in a draft where Pfs will remain at 3 for Bynum, Foye, and Radman becomes "a #3 pick and a #2 pick for Bynum". Now isn't that clever nonsense. W But this is always your problem Walter. You propose deals that sound good on paper, but never really consider why the other side would even make a deal like that. Speedy had his worst year as a pro, and was chronically injured. Now tell me who will make ANY trade for him right now? If anything, you wait and see if Speedy can get healthy, produces a little, THEN trade him when his value is higher. But as of right now, no sane GM in the league would trade for Speedy, and that contract. It's the same reason why Minny can't get rid of guys like Hudson and Jaric, and even Mike James for that matter. Who in their right mind would trade for those guys, with the amount of money left on their contracts? Unless Speedy improves to the level he was 2 years ago, he's going to be a Hawk for the next 4 years, whether we like it or not. That's just reality. Now we can cut him before then, but it still doesn't do us any good cap wise. I tell you what Walter. Go to the RealGM or ESPN boards, and post your trade on the Lakers and the T-Wolves board. See what response you'll get from their fans. Don't cry to us because we disagree with your elaborate, but unrealistic schemes. Post on their boards, and see if THEY agree with you.

Quote: You guys are just plain silly. Bynum is a stud WHO PLAYS A POSITION OF NEED. Foye can be a great playmaker next to JJ. AND THE DEAL IS PLAUSIBLE AND CAN GET DONE! Yet, you guys hem and haw and want 6 RPG Hibbert over Bynum (are you [censored] crazy!?!) and laud the play of MW as if he's worth a top 8 pick now, even though we have three other forwards, 2 of them lottery. But most importantly NONE OF YOU BK AND ASG FANS HAVE A SINGLE CREDIBLE IDEA OF YOUR OWN AS TO HOW TO SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE THIS TEAM! I potentially solve BOTH our positional needs with a great prospect in Bynum and a very good one in Foye using a redundant player in MW and a 3rd pick we would have to reach with to fill our needs, I don't cost us our 11th pick, and you guys just make asses of yourselves. What's new? Northcyde, the new GSUteke. GSUteke, the new KB. KB, the new ? W You obviously see what you want to see Walter. Just because I'm not 100% behind your trade idea, doesn't mean that I wouldn't be totally against it if it happened. I could see why the Hawks would do it . . even if I wouldn't personally do the move. I think I explained that pretty thoroughly in my original post. That "stud" you talk about, can't even beat out Kwame Brown as the starter, on a team that desperately needed good play in the middle. Bynum does show flashes of greatness every once in a while. But he is a very inconsistent basketball player, especially on the defensive end. That's why a Hall of Fame coach like Phil Jackson opted to play Kwame, instead of Andrew. Now . . if you don't agree with that, write Phil an e-mail and tell him how much of an idiot HE is for not playing Andrew. If he were such a "stud" and a gamechanger, he would've played a lot of minutes against Amare in the Phoenix series. But the fact is that as of right now, Kwame Brown is the better player on both ends of the floor, even if his upside is very limited, compared to Andrew's upside. And when you say that Foye CAN be a great playmaker, you obviously haven't seen much of Minnesota play this year. What sets Foye apart from most guards, is that he's a pretty good defender, and can play AND defend both guard positions. Most importantly, he can score either via the open jumpshot, or by taking the ball strong to the hole ( ala Ben Gordon ). But as a playmaker? Please. I watched a ton of Minny games this year, mainly because I wanted to see how my boy Trenton Hassell was playing this year. Foye got a lot of his assists the same way that JT used to get his assists . . by passing to jumpshooters who caught and shot the ball to give him an assist. It wasn't like Foye was penetrating in the lane, drawing people to him, then kicking the ball out to a shooter or finding someone under the basket for an easy dunk. When Foye goes to the hole, he's a lot like Ben Gordon in the fact that he's looking to score, not create for others. Look at the numbers Foye put up in April, by far his best month as a pro in just about every category. 15.4 ppg 3.5 rebs 3.8 assists 3.1 turnovers 53% FG 50% 3FG In the previous 5 months, Randy shot 41% FG - 22% 3FG ( March ) 41% FG - 50% 3FG ( February ) 39% FG - 35% 3FG ( January ) 48% FG - 30% 3FG ( December ) 42% FG - 29% 3FG ( November ) That's what Randy would bring to the table, although I seriously doubt that he could shoot both 50% from both the field and from 3-point range. He'll be more around the 45% FG and 37% from 3, which is dang good for a young guard. But up until April, he showed no indication that he could play that well at all. As people have said before, Foye is a lead guard, not a playmaking PG. But he can play both guard positions, making him a value to any team picking him up. But to try to say that he can be a "great" playmaker, is so far from the truth, it isn't even funny. What he can be, is a Mike Bibby type playmaker, with the potential to be a Baron Davis type scorer. But even that is probably another 2 - 3 years from happening, considering the state of the T-Wolves these days. Maybe we should chalk up Foye playing so well in April, to the fact that he was playing against NBDL talent, much like some of you say about the numbers that Shelden put up in April. As far as Hibbert goes, I think that offensively, Hibbert is a much more polished player than what Andrew is right now. The guy is pretty graceful around the basket, can hit about 70% of his free throws, can hit a mid-range jumper, and is a pretty good on the ball defender. Unlike Josh Smith, he isn't a good defender only because he can block a few shots. Hibbert is a good defender because he can block shots and play man defense. When Oden and Hibbert went head to head against each other, Hibbert didn't back down from Oden one bit, and got his offense. And Oden didn't manhandle him either. It was a pretty good matchup against the 2 best centers in college. And we're not even going to talk about the game Hibbert had against UNC the game before. Hibbert isn't going to be a scrub in the NBA, and he may be better than Bynum right now. We won't see that, until they go head to head though. Neither may live up to be great centers, only serviceable ones. If the Hawks aren't going to transform themselves into a running team, give me Hibbert instead of Bynum. And for that matter, give me Law instead of Foye, because I trust Law as a playmaker and as a shooter, much more than I trust Foye. PG - Law ( or Speedy ) G - JJ . . Salim F - Marvin . . Chill F - Smoove . . Shelden C - Hibbert . . ZaZa I'll take that squad going into next season. You can take yours. Argue all you want on which combo would be better for us next year. You can't prove a thing, because we'll never know. It'll all be just speculation. And I know Walter. Marvin nor Shelden nor anybody else on this roster will improve next season. So in your eyes, this is a failure. To each his own. (( tossing the ball back to you, so you can do your childish namecalling once again ))

Quote: When did Andrew Bynum become such a great player that it would cost the Hawks Marvin Williams, a far better player, AND the #3 pick in the draft to get him? KB . . I agree with you. That's why I wouldn't do the deal. But if the Hawks were that desperate to get a center, that's probably what it would take to get one here, if they felt that Hibbert at #3 isn't as good of an option as Bynum. From our perspective, it'll basically be us giving up the #3 for Bynum . . and giving up Marvin in order to clear some room for Chill, Smoove, and Shelden to get 30+ minutes a game, even if all are healthy. If this team is so unbalanced, a move like that will instantly balance out the team. It's a gamble that I'm not willing to take, because I'm not convinced at all that Bynum can even be better than Eddy Curry, let alone be a dominant center. But I could see why the Hawks would do it. PG - Speedy . . Law . . Lue/AJ ( until traded or contracts expire ) G - JJ . . Salim F - Chill F - Smoove . . Shelden . . Solomon C - Bynum . . ZaZa . . Wright Chill is solid, and we know what we get from him. His upside isn't nearly as great as Marvin's though. Right now, Chill is the better player until Marvin becomes a more consistent player. Smoove is still growing and has a chance to be an all-star caliber player at the 3/4 combo spot. It's also has been cited many times on this board that Shelden produces when he actually gets major minutes. Moving Marvin may free him up as a guy who can get major minutes at the 4 and the 5, while not compromising the floor time of Smoove, who could easily move to the 3 in a Smoove - Shelden - Bynum frontcourt. I wouldn't make the trade, because I don't believe in trading young talent with potential, for more young talent with potential ( especially when the talent we're trading for is younger than what we already have ). I'm all for a Marvin/Chill/or Smoove trade, if it will bring us an established veteran player who we know that can play. But I definitely see why the Hawks would do it. And it would only be a bad move if Bynum turned out to be a complete bust or didn't develop past the level of a Mark Blount ( who isn't bad, but nowhere near great ).

Quote: Wright scenario: G - Crittenton G - Kobe F - Odom F - Wright C - Brown Marvin or Brewer ( 6th man ) Forget Brewer being the 6th man. He's not on the team if the Lakers take Wright. So Marvin would be the 6th man.

Quote: First, given our contract signing restrictions not allowing us to sign or trade for a player with > 4 years on his contract without unanimous approval from the owners, we cannot expect to trade away a player for cap space (i.e. Speedy) AND sign a max FA. No max FA of worth will sign for 4 years or less. PERIOD. Thus, with the 3rd overall pick we should look to either draft a player, draft a player and trade, or trade the pick. I suggest the following listed as trade scenario # 3807190 at realgm.com 1) Hawks trade the #3 pick, Marvin Williams, and Speedy Claxton, all to Minnesota and get Bynum, Foye, Radman, and Cook. 2) The Lakers trade Lamar Odom to Minnesota and Bynum, Radman, and Cook to Atlanta and get Garnett. 3) Minnesota trades Kevin Garnett to LA and Foye to Atlanta and get the #3 pick, Marvin Williams, Odom, and Speedy Claxton. Obviously, they rebuild with the 3rd and 5th picks this year, MW, and Odom. This deal could easily be tweaked to send Lue to LA. Possibly SW and JC instead of MW if that's what it takes to make the deal work. Anyhow, the lineup would be Bynum/ZaZa JS/SW/Cook JC/Radman JJ Foye/Lue or AJ We draft whomever with the 11th pick. Basically, I think a 3rd pick is to Minny's liking if they decide to trade Garnett and rebuild. LA want's Garnett. Bynum and Foye fill our two needs perfectly and very well respectively. We have a high pick to spare. W Decent trade. And one thing about Foye. Foye CAN play the point, but that isn't his ideal position. So we're running the risk of putting a "young" JT-like player at the point, hoping he can develop into an efficient one. He's a scoring PG, not a playmaking one. Right now, he's just decent at that position, with decision making being his biggest problem while playing PG. He's had his biggest games in Minny, when he's able to be the main option with the reserves, or when KG tosses the ball out to him for open jumpers. What Randy can do, is defend PGs. And that would definitely be a benefit for the Hawks. It's funny though. You're completely against Law, compared to the other 2 PGs, but Foye and Law are pretty comparable players, when it comes to offensive play. The exception being that Law is a truer PG than Foye, and a far better playmaker. Foye is the better defender though. But I think you're making this way too complicated to get Bynum here. I wouldn't even make Minny part of the deal. ( Note: As bad as BK is villified on this board, he'd be dealing with arguably two GMs who have done a worse job than him . . McHale and Kupchak. So any deal involving the three of them would be "interesting" to say the least. ) Here's what I would do, to try to pry Bynum away from them. I could only do this if Corey Brewer keeps rising on the draft board. Atlanta trades: Marvin + #3 pick to Lakers LA Lakers trade: Bynum + Maurice Evans + 1st round 2008 If Kobe is definitely in a "win now" mode, they need to start acquiring people that can help them "win now" . . right now. If you add Minny into a deal, they're more than likely will want Bynum, because everyone already knows what Odom will bring to the table. Bynum has "upside" that the Lakers can sell teams on, in which that team can sell to their fan bases who need a center ( like us ). Odom doesn't. You already know what you'll get with Odom. That's the main reason why you keep Minny out of the deal. But this is what you sell the Lakers on. If they take Marvin and the #3 pick, they'll have their choice on how their roster can look for the 2008 season. Frist option: You can go extremely athletic, and take Brewer with the #3 pick. ( Note: the triangle offense doesn't require you to have a playmaking PG . . just one who can guard the other teams PG, and one that can knock down open shots. If push came to shove, Kobe or Brewer have the ability to bring the ball up the court and guard both guard positions. ) Lineup: G - Kobe G - Brewer F - Marvin F - Odom C - Brown 2nd option: You can address the center you just lost, and take Hibbert to take his place. G - Farmar G - Kobe F - Marvin F - Odom C - Hibbert 3rd option: If you want to keep Odom in the starting lineup, and bring Marvin off the bench as a hired gun, take Brandan Wright. G - Farmar G - Kobe F - Odom F - Wright C - Brown Marvin ( 6th man ) ** And there's a reason why I would ask for the Lakers 2008 pick, instead of their #19 pick this year. You would do that in order to essentially give the Lakers three 1st round picks this year. The Lakers have to be sold on the fact that Marvin + the #3 pick, could give them enough athletic talent to get them past a team like Phoenix, and give Kobe the adequate help that he needs. That may be enough for them to let go of Bynum. And you would do it in order for the Hawks to have a 2008 draft pick in the 1st round. ( A pick that we would lose, if we got the #3 pick this year ). Even if it's a pick in the 20s, it's still a 1st round pick. And here's what some of you Hawks fans would HATE. I would sell them on the fact that they ( the Lakers ) could also acquire a young PG waiting for them at the #19 spot. Guess who it would be? Now . . let's go back and redo those lineups, with the Lakers getting that young PG at the #19 spot. Brewer scenario: G - Crittenton G - Kobe F - Brewer ( or Marvin ) F - Odom C - Brown Hibbert scenario: G - Crittenton G - Kobe F - Brewer ( or Marvin ) F - Odom C - Hibbert Wright scenario: G - Crittenton G - Kobe F - Odom F - Wright C - Brown Marvin or Brewer ( 6th man ) For the Hawks, we'd basically sell "less" our soul to get Bynum, and PRAY TO GOD that he pans out immeadiately. Evans is just a filler to make the numbers work, with his contract expiring after the 2008 season. And the 1st round pick would at least give the Hawks a pick to work with in the 2008 draft. But we'd be basically selling our soul, just to get a center. Hawks lineup. G - Speedy ( or Law ) G - JJ F - Childress F - Smoove C - Bynum Bench: G - Law . . Lue . . Salim . . AJ ( or Speedy, if not the starter ) F - Evans, Solomon, Shelden C - ZaZa, Wright We would've addressed both the needs at PG and at C with this, but in turn, possibly given the Lakers two potential All-Star players ( Marvin and Brewer ), with the remote opportunity of them drafting a 3rd guy who might develop into a star in Crittenton. We'd still have our expiring contracts to work with ( Lue, AJ, Wright ), to possibly make another move with to get a veteran player here. And we'd be assured to have a 1st round draft pick in 2008. This means that Bynum BETTER be as good as people think he can be, and not just a "run of the mill" center. Personally, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it because I would rather trade Marvin for a more established player ( lol . . like a Lamar Odom or a Zach Randolph ). And this Hawks lineup would be interesting as well . . if we wanted to run, and go extremely athletic. G - Speedy G - JJ F - Brewer F - Marvin F - Smoove But if this team ( and the fan base ) really wants a center that bad, the best way to go about it is to sell the Lakers on the fact that they could essentially acquire the #2 pick in the 2005 draft and the #3 pick in this year's draft, to significantly upgrade their team.