TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: I haven't given up on the Hawks. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm going to do what you probably do every year and that is not buy season tickets. I guess the fact that you don't have tickets means you never were much of a fan, at least by your own logic. BTW, if you want my seats they are still very much on the market. Just fork over $11,000 and they are all yours. Plus, you get a parking pass. If you do buy my old seats you may discover that you actually care about whether or not they are well coached. You may also care that BK blows draft picks as well because when your financially invested it's a little different. Remember, even though you will discover that you just pissed away some pretty good coin that it's only a game. And it's only money. Your money. I have a hunch that it won't be you that sits in those seats next year. $11,000? Nah, you're right. That's a little out of my price range. But seeing that I live 4.5 hours from ATL, it's pretty much impossible for me to be a season ticket holder. If I did live in ATL though, I'd definitely be one. And I'd be sitting very close to your section behind the players, judging by these season ticket prices. I'd probably be a "blue seat $75 guy". I'm assuming you're paying for more than just yourself though at $11K. http://www.nba.com/hawks/tickets/0607_Plan...eason.html#full Pete, we all know the situation with ownership and the coaches. We all know that they may have not made the best possible choice with every decision that they had to make. That has been discussed at length on this board, and around the country in various media outlets. Which is why the constant crying about it is useless. It's just that when it came to THIS SEASON, the #1 reason why the Hawks didn't come close to their expectations, are the injuries. That isn't very hard to understand. When your top players miss 150+ games of playing time, it's hard for ANY TEAM to overcome that. And it wasn't like we had one guy out for an entire season, and some other healthy body took his place and played injury free. We had people going out for weeks at a time, come back, and then see someone else go down for weeks at a time. Unfortunately for us, we usually had 2 - 3 players down, instead of one. When you look at this season, it was damn near the worst case scenario for us. We had multiple players hurt from the beginning to the end of the season. Those aren't excuses . . those are facts that can't be disputed. The only way the Hawks win 45 games this year, is if multiple players improved significantly, and the team gelled to the point that they would become a very tough out at home, while winning around 40% of their road games. The only way the Hawks win 30 games this year, is if we had players who didn't develop, and we suffered a rash of devestating injuries. In a typical year, the Hawks should've been somewhere in the middle ( 36 - 40 wins ), with fashes of brilliant and inconsistent play being the theme of the offseason. Back in February, when I suggested that the team shouldn't tank the season, I said that because I thought it would be good for the players overall confidence going into next season. To me, it was more important to see improvement in JJ, JS, JC, and Marvin as a unit, than throwing away the season, just to get a chance at Oden or Durant. I was wrong. But not because I still don't believe that. Now, I guess it was best for this team not to tank, just for the sanity and confidence of the fans who think that all is lost here, if we don't get that top 3 pick. But it's funny. If we'd won 37 games, people would be crying to the heavens, talking about how we pretty much handed over the "chance" of getting a top 3 pick, to Phoenix. They wouldn't be talking about how the Hawks could improve next season. They'd be crying over the draft pick. The sad thing about this season came in March, when Smoove was playing so well. People couldn't even enjoy how well he was playing, because they were so fixated on us deliberately losing games, so that we'd have a "good" shot at a top 3 pick. JJ raised his level of play and made the all-star team. And contrary to popular belief, he should've been voted on there in the first place, especially over a guy like Caron Butler. JJ has gone from a "4th wheel in Phoenix" to a legit "go-to-guy" with us, in just over 2 years. He's already surpassed the expectations of many Hawk fans, and NBA "experts". Smoove made tremendous strides in his game during the 2nd half of the season, sometimes showing flashes of being an all-star caliber talent. How can anyone not be excited about what he could bring to the table next season? Marvin at least proved that he can be a legit starter with this team, with more improvement on the horison. Childress was Childress. A solid player who did his job night after night. The type of dependable player that every team needs. When I look at those 4, there's no way I can go into next season with my head hanging down, thinking that the Hawks can't make that jump to playoff level. I don't expect any of those players to regress, regardless of what happens in the offseason. Sure, we're far from having a championship team here. But we're not far at all from having a playoff caliber team here. We just need to stay healthy.

Pete, don't worry. I'll sit in your seat next year, since you've given up on the Hawks. I hope you had decent seats.

Quote: Because you simply don't get it. We are AT BEST a mediocre team in the coming years and at worse we remain LESSER mediocre team. We have nowhere to go but nowhere without a miracle. This is the NBA! Mediocrity is a graveyard and you like what you see!?! Our rebuild is on life support, the people that have tried to take it's life are not only free but continue to preside over it's care, The court may in effect pull the plug on it anyhow with 4 year contract limits, etc., and you want us to be grateful for the tihings we have been given. Good work Halmark. W Walter, you're like those UT Vol fans that constantly complain about the program, no matter what they do. Even when expectations aren't nearly supposed to be high, you're the type of fan that has them waaaaaaay too high in the first place. As Dennis Green would've said about the Hawks . . "The Hawks are who we thought they were." So if you know what the team is, why the constant complaining? Like GSU said, it's the same thing . . day, after day, after day, after day, after day, after day, after day, after day, after day, after day after day .. you get the picture? As long as you're going to be the poster child of negativity on this board, I'll be here to counteract what you say, and put a positive spin on it. LOL . . the forces of negativity and evil shall not prevail. For the rest of you, I'll ask again . . would you feel better about the Hawks if they won 36 - 40 games, like they probably would've won this year, barring all of the injuries? Or better yet, 36 wins, even with the injuries? Or does that 30 win mark blind you in such a way that you can't even see that we still can be a .500 team right now, despite our deficiencies?

Quote: Quote: Losing is indeed the problem, it has left only a handful of posters here, left smacking of the obvious....losing. What insightful genius. This Board USED to be one of the more insightful and informative. Maybe some new people will start posting here, when the obvious does not happen next season. the other half is the agenda driven posters that remain who beat the same subjects over the head over and over again with a rubber mallet. there are 3 or 4 posters that put up the majority of posts on Hawksquawk and I don't have to read their posts to know what they've written. Right on the money GSU.

Quote: Because other than the four straight 50+ loss seasons (longest in the NBA), missing the playoffs for eight years in a row (longest in the NBA), not drafting an All-Star since Hall and Oates was a headline act (longest in pro sports), and not making it to an NBA Finals since JFK was in office (longest in the NBA), this franchise is on the up and up. After all, the leadership being shown in the front office and ownership box has been a shining example of how winning organizations are supposed to be run. Yeah, right. Short of this team packing up and leaving town, this is as low as I've ever seen them since they jobbed out in 1975 to draft David Thompson with the #1 pick, only for him to bolt to the ABA. Sorry if I sound pessimistic but a fella has to have MORE proof that things are going to be better other than saying that the young guys will one day come around. I want that day to occur while I'm still alive. Just charging the season off to injuries just doesn't fly with me. Just curious Dejay . . when did you start feeling like this about this season? Did it start in November and early December, when this team was 8 - 9, and looking like they can hang with anybody in the league? Did it start when people started dropping like flies from mid-December to mid-January, and we only won like 2 out of 14 games in that stretch? And let me pause right here. Because the night we lost to the Hornets . . a Hornets team that were basically without all of their starters . . just about everybody, including myself, damn near went off the deep end. Then we turn right around, get Smoove back, and beat the Pistons. So what then? Was the team still in shambles at the all-star break, even though we'd won 11 out of 18 games, and had everybody back on the roster, with the exception of Speedy? Did it start after the all-star break, when we lost 8 out of 9 in our toughest strech of the year on the schedule, with every game with the exception of road games at Chicago and Dallas basically coming down to the final 2 minutes? Did it start after the March 4 game home win streak, which cut the 8th seed decifit to 3.5 games? Or did it start after we lost 9 of 10 games after that streak? When did this collection of Hawks become the "low point" of the franchise? Please. There's no way any Hawk fan can say that he feels worse about the Hawks now, than 4 years ago, when we had veteran players here constantly finding ways to lose. And that team was healthy ( Big Dog, JT, Reef, Ratliff, Glover, etc ) You're trying to tell me that this Hawks team, as it is right now . . even if we don't add anybody . . is going to REGRESS? Come on now. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. Fans knew that this wasn't going to be a quick fix. And the injuries have delayed our progress ( much like it has delayed Milwaukee's ). When you look at the East right now, before the draft, Milwaukee and Atlanta are the teams that should be watched in the East. When healthy, both team can win 1/2 of their games next year . . or more. Cry and sulk about the Hawks if you want to. The future is nowhere near dim or bleak for us.

And I also agree with what Gray, Seano, and GSU said. When people are talking about trading our young talent, you don't trade them to get MORE young talent. You trade them for proven vets. The key word there is PROVEN. Not guys who we think that can play ( i.e. - Ridnour ). Guys who we know can play, but just couldn't take their current team to the next level. That's the pattern of the NBA. Build up your talent base through the draft and see if the vets you add to the team can get you to the next level. So when people talk about trading Marvin or Chill, they shouldn't try to get another inconsistent young player with upside . . or a draft pick with upside. Get a good starter who may have worn out his welcome on his current team.

Good lord. People act like the Hawks have hit rock bottom. We're far from a rock bottom team. We had tremendously back luck with injuries this season, yet, people act like the 30 wins we put up were the BEST that we could do. Stop the "woe is me as a Hawk fan" crap. This team is far from perfect, but it's nowhere near the worst collection of talent either. Cry about who we should've taken all you want. That ish does not matter now. Bottom line is this: Would you feel better if this team won 36 - 40 games, but still missed the playoffs? That's what the vast majority of this board predicted about this team last summer. Hell, we were injured all year, and then we tanked the last 3 weeks of the season, sitting people down for the year with "minor" injuries. That's how you get to 30 wins. Ish . . you had SOME people on this board advocating tanking back in January, to have us win 23 - 24 games. The media will continue to attack the Hawks, until we turn this thing around. Until then . . (( bleep )) what the media says about this team. If they hype us up, it doesn't make us a better team ( ask Orlando ). And if they dog us, it doesn't mean that we're the worst in the league. Because teams like Minnesota and New York are much worse off than we are. (( handing a lot of you guys some Kleenex, to wipe your dang eyes out with. )) Man the (( bleep )) up.

Lineup: G - Law ( if Speedy's health is still suspect ) G - JJ F - Marvin F - Smoove F/C - who knows? I think Hawk fans still don't appreciate just how good JJ really is. He's one of 2 SGs in the league that shot over 47% FG, and averaged 25 ppg. The only other guy that did that, is Dwyane Wade. Kobe came close to doing it. People forget that JJ shot 48% from the field and from 3 point range, when Nash could get him the ball when he was squared to the basket. With the Hawks, JJ takes a ton of tough shots, just to get his points. And he still shot a high percentage. (( That's why trading JJ is a ridiculous notion, especially if it's to bring in even younger "talent" to the team. This team isn't where it is now, without JJ. )) Smoove should continue to improve. Marvin should too. If both guys raise their FG shooting to around 47%, you'll see this team immeadiately start to win more of those close games that we've lost in the past. You add Law to this team, and it'll be hard to double-team JJ. Law can hit the open shot like Lue can. And he can handle the point, especially in the 1/2 court game, like AJ can. It's the best of both worlds for this team. And if we wanted to run, Law could handle that too, without making a bad decision on the break that leads to a turnover. And you're not going to lose anything defensively with Law in the game, like we do when Lue plays the point. He can handle his own on defense, while still being able to put the ball in the hole.

I was a BIG Jameer Nelson fan. At the time of that 04 draft, I was definitely willing to take him at #17, than take a chance on Josh. But I understood why BK took Josh back then, because we needed talent more than we needed a solid player. Jameer is a nice PG, a stable PG for the most part. But he's not and will never be a star talent. Fast forward 4 years later, and our talent base is pretty much set with JJ, Smoove, Marvin, and Chill. All 4 of those players could become even better, with a stable PG that could get them the ball in the right spots and maximize their ability on offense. When I look at Acie, I think he could do in his rookie year, exactly what Jameer is doing right now, with the potential to become an even better player down the road. To me, that's Acie's lowest projection as a player . . Jameer Nelson . . with his highest being a player like Billups or Cassell.

I see it too. Crit would be great on a veteran team that could mask some of his shortcomings. But this Hawks team is young, and makes crazy mistakes throughout games as it is right now. To me, Crit is just like Josh Smith, when it comes to talent and upside. And it took Smith a full 2.5 years to finally realize his potential. When you look at Law, you're talking about a guy who can probably step right in the NBA, average 10 - 13 ppg ( if he was the starter ) . . shoot around 45% FG ( since almost ALL rookie guards shoot about 4% - 8% worse in the pros their 1st year, than they did in their last year in college ) . . an drop about 5 - 6 dimes a game. If we took Crit this year, who knows what we'll get in year 1 or year 2. By year 3 or 4, he should be a dang good player in this league. But like you said, do we really want to wait that long for a player like that to develop, when we already have two potential stars here in JJ and Smoove? What this team needs right now is stability. Law could definitely give us that right now. I don't know if Javaris could right now. In 2 - 3 years he could.

Walter, even you've said in the past, that you really haven't seen Law play that much. Honestly, how many times have you seen Law play? It seems like all of the people who really want Conley Jr. or Javaris here, haven't seen more than 4 games of Law. And they didn't see Law's best games against big time competition. And it wasn't like A&M wasn't on TV a lot last year, because they were. Hardcore b-ball fans know exactly what Law brings to the table. Kind of hard to have a legit opinion on a guy, if you've never watched a lot of him. It'll be interesting to see if Javaris attends some of the pre-draft camps after Memorial Day. If he attends, he may go in as the best prospect in the camp. If Javaris has lottery pick potential, he could literally dominate in those pre-draft camps, and raise his stock tremendously. If he shows that he is highly suspect about his decision making as a PG, the camps may see him fall all the way out of the 1st round . . and see him go back to Tech for his sophomore year ( which would be best for him, and for Tech fans ). If he doesn't go, he runs the risk of somebody really raising their stock at the camps, and dropping him even further in the 1st round. Then, it'll be up to what he does in the individual workours. For the most part, a player's stock usually doesn't rise or fall that much in an individual workout. A guy like Law, or any of the projected top 20 prospects, probably won't attend the camps ( because they usually don't ). If Law did, he'd blow people away with his decision making and his shooting. But, like Javaris, there's always that risk that some lesser talent may show you up, and drop your draft status a little. So I'm curious Walter. How many Acie Law games have you watched this year? And be honest.

Quote: Quote: What do you guys think the warriors playoff seed would have been if they had the guys from the inidana trade the whole year? There talent just seemed too good for them to be an 8 seed. Id say they would be about a 5 seed if they had this team the whole year. The bigger question is how good they would have been had their team simply been healthy, IMO. Missing Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, etc. for much of the year is tough. Sorry . . we can't use that "excuse" for the Warriors. Seeing that the injury situation had very little to do with the outcome of the season for the Hawks, it shouldn't be a legit excuse for the Warriors barely making the playoffs.

I pretty much agree . . unless Speedy and Shelden pretty much play to the maximum of their ability, especially on the defensive end. With that lineup, Speedy has to get back to the player he was 2 years ago in N.O. and at G-State. He would have to be as close to Mookie Blaylock as possible ( without the 3 point shot ). With that lineup, Speedy would have to average: 11.5 ppg 6 assists 2 steals and shoot at least 43% FG. Those are along the numbers that people probably expected from Speedy this year. And those numbers are pretty close to what he put up last year in N.O. and in G-State. When you look at Shelden possibly logging minutes at the 5 spot, we'd have to rotate him back and forth from the 4 to the 5, to maximize his effectiveness. As a starter, we'd have to have Shelden put up these types of numbers: 10 ppg 8.5 rebs 1 block 1 steal . . But most importantly, he'd have to be a 50% FG+ shooter and a post defender that isn't easily moved, to justify him being on the court for starter's minutes. And the only way he becomes a 50% FG shooter, is if guys like Speedy, JJ, and Smoove get him the ball in decent spots on the block. A guy like him probably benefits the most from having a decent PG. I see the role that Chuck Hayes plays in Houston as an undersized PF, and wonder if Shelden could have that same effectiveness as an undersized center for us, if we're forced to go that route. That may be a better option for us, rather than picking up some scrub center that nobody wants. Like Diesel said, I'd like to see what this group could do when completely healthy. It'll be interesting. LOL . . all of these "best case scenario" conversations are all well and good before the draft. But if we don't get that top 3 pick, the discussion should turn to how do we maximize the talent we have NOW on this team.

Vdunk, it's hard for me to believe that you saw Acie Law in EITHER game vs Texas, and didn't come away highly impressed with him. That guy is a big time floor leader. The type of guy that teams covet. In the first game @ Texas A&M, he scores 21 points and dished out 15 assists . . with only 1 turnover. That's easily the best PG performance of the year in D-1 last season. He COMPLETELY controlled that game. He had 15 points in the 1st half, when A&M needed him to score and really put pressure on Texas to score, to keep up with the pace that A&M was setting. ( remember, this is a 1/2 court style team . . and they were KILLING Texas from the jump, because of the play of Law. ) In the 2nd half, he scored only when he needed to, and found people for easy looks the entire half. He had like 8 - 9 assists in the 2nd half alone. Ish . . he even had a mini-Willis Reed moment, when he got hurt in that game, but returned a little bit later. The crowd was chanting his name like he was some basketball god. It was EASILY the best college PG performance I'd seen all year. ********* The 2nd game @ Texas, should be an instant ESPN Classic. Not only do you see the best of Durant and Augustin, you see EXACTLY why people compare Acie to Sam Cassell or a Chauncey Billups . . ( and not some guy like Luther Head ). From the 3 minute mark, until the end of the 2OT, Law scored 19 of his 33 points. That included: - A&M's last 9 points to end the half - a 3 pointer over 6-9 Durant with a second to go, to send the game into OT. An absolute incredible shot that even Law called "lucky". - Another 3 pointer in the 1st OT, that eventually sent the game to double OT. A shot in which the entire team knew that he was going to get the ball, and he still made the shot from 21 - 22 feet out. - And he would've sent the game into triple OT, if his lay-up didn't get blocked with about 10 seconds to go. That entire game was incredible, because it truly illustrated what the hype was all about surrounding Durant. But Law did everything in his power to get his team the win, and really put him in the national spotlight as well. ******** Here's what should scare the H-E-L-L out of people about Javaris. We all know that he has turnover problems. And it's been documented by me that he's had 11 games in which he's commited 5 or more turnovers. Well how about another stat concerning Javaris and his turnovers: He had 13 games in which his number of turnovers either equaled or surpassed the number of assists. Usually, you'll see those types of numbers in guys who play the 2, not guys who play the point. If he stays in school, Javaris probably has a good chance to be a top 10 pick next year, and a top 5 pick in 2 years. The kid obviously has skills. He just needs to develop the mental part of his game. And the only way he can do that, is to keep playing on the college level.

I always like your posts. It's like taking a dose of Pepto Bismol, after your stomach is acting up. It sooths, settles, and eventually puts you at ease. Funny . . no responses to this thread, despite almost 80 views. People would rather "keep hope alive", than face the truth. This board is hilarious. I think people better come to the very REAL possibility of the Hawks ONLY having the #11 pick going into next season, and having that as the ONLY offseason move that this team will or can make during the summer. There are a whole lot of "best case scenarios" being tossed around, but very little talk of the "real scenarios" that may very well happen. - Don't look for Smoove to get that extension this summer. If he does, it won't be close to a MAX number. - Don't look for Marvin, Chill, Shelden, or Salim to be traded this summer. - Don't even look for the Hawks to get a PG in the draft, if Law and Conley are gone. - DO look for the Hawks to try to sign a veteran player ( even multiple players ) via FA . . but look for those players to NOT sign here, regardless of what we throw at them. And if we do sign somebody, it'll be for a cast-off center who no one really wants in the first place. I personally don't think that BK wants to go down that route again. The Lo Wright signing pretty much was a waste. But who knows? If the team decides that they can't depend on ZaZa or Shelden to man the middle, they might get a scrub center who can play defense. - Don't expect that ownership battle to be settled this summer. Going with what we have may very well be the path that this ownership takes. Whether people think that is the "worst case scenario" remains to be seen. May 22nd is the day after my birthday. I hope for the best, but am definitely prepared for the worst on that day. Maybe the real talk around here should be this: Can this lineup be a successful one for the Hawks, if everyone stays healthy? G - Speedy G - JJ F - Marvin F - Smoove F - Shelden . . and if not, why? This starting lineup may give us the best possible chance at victories next year, with Chill, Lue, Salim, ZaZa, AJ and whomever we take at #11 contributing off the bench. If healthy, the question then becomes . . can that team get 40+ wins, and get us to the playoffs? Now, this doesn't mean that the Hawks won't look to wheel and deal with teams before next year's trade deadline, because they probably will, regardless of what their record is. But I wouldn't expect a very busy offseason for the Hawks.

Correct. JC is a JC clone. Except Crawford has the worst shot selection in the league. Crit may make the worst decisions running the point that I've seen from a big time prospect, in a long time. All the kid needs is another year or two to hone his skills and his mental game. When he does that, he'll be a dang good player in the league. But have him come out early, and it could have a team waiting 2 - 3 years to grow out of what really ails him as a b-ball player. By that time, we might be in another total rebuilding mode. Pick Law. He has the talent right now, and we won't have to go through growing pains if we let him run the show.

How about the BENGALS . . . which I'm also a Bengals fan, ontop of being a Hawks fan. I don't feel sorry for those of us who have gotten to see the Hawks win 40+ games for years, and make playoff appearances. I feel sorry for those young Hawks fans, that started following the team after the 1999 season, who have NEVER even seen this team win 36 games in a season, let alone make the playoffs. It's the potential young fan base that is hurt in all of this. But even they'll come around when and if the Hawks start winning. But the Bengals have had it far worse than Hawks fans. Yes, they made the Super Bowl back in 1988, but look at what has happened since then. - no playoff wins since 1990. - injured Bo Jackson in a playoff game in the 90 - 91 season that effectively ended his career . . and brought about the Bo Jackson Curse to the franchise . . as a result, see the next point: - 14 consecutive losing seasons 91 - 2004 ( Bo Jackson Curse ) - one playoff appearance ( 2 years ago ) . . and Carson Palmer gets hurt on the 3rd play from scrimmage, virtually ending all hope of a playoff victory ( lingering effect of Bo Jackson Curse ) - multiple BAD 1st round picks ( Dan Wilkinson, David Klingler, to name a few ) - multiple HARD LUCK 1st round picks that either didn't pan out, or got hurt ( Ki-Jana Carter, Peter Warrick, to name a few ) - great players who had to endure losing their entire career in Cincy ( Willie Anderson, Corey Dillon, Takeo Spikes ) - the constant butt of national media jokes . . most notably, constantly being called the "Bungals" for years, by a popular ESPN personality. His name rhymes with Vermin. - Cincy now knows as the Portland Trail Blazers of the NBA, with all the arrests - a totally inept, and CHEAP front office . . until we hired Marvin Lewis - a "behind the times in everything" organzation . . until we hired Marvin Lewis It took the Bengals 15 years just to get back to respectability. LOL . . what I go through as a Hawks fan is nothing, compared to what I've gone through as a Bengals fan. But like I said, I feel more sorry for our younger fans.

Dang . . . I know who Javaris reminds me of. NBADraft.net and draftexpress.com compares him to Steve Francis. But I think that's the wrong comparison. Right team, but wrong player to compare him to. I'll post Javaris' nbadraft.net ratings in regular black text, and the guy who I think he compares to in bold black text. I just happened to luck up and find his nbadraft.net ratings as well. When I saw this, it just confirmed who I think JC really compares to. And it also confirmed to me why this kid should stay in school for at least another year or two. Because if he did, he could really be an impact player in the league if he waited until his junior year to declare. If not, his career could very well resemble the guy that I think he compares to . . which isn't a bad player at all. Just one that should've stayed in school for about 3 years. Athleticism: 9 . . . 10 Size: 9 . . . 8 Defense: 7 . . . 7 Strength: 8 . . . 6 Quickness: 8 . . . 9 Leadership: 7 . . . 7 Jump Shot: 8 . . . 7 NBA Ready: 6 . . . 6 Passing: 7 . . . 9 Potential: 9 . . . 10 Ball Handling: 7 . . . 9 Intangibles: 7 . . . 7 Total rating: 92 . . . 95 The exact same size of player, at the exact same age, with the exact same skill set, and also played on a high profile college team. Name that player. Then look him up to see what he did in his first 2 years in the NBA.

Quote: tell me, what's wrong with it! I mean, Bumpy, if all you ever want to do is sit around and add absolutely NOTHING to the discussion... Why are you even posting?? LOL @ Diesel. I see you're really bored today. (( for humor purposes only )) G - Paul G - Chill F - Marvin ( oops, you'll start Shelden ) (( revising starting lineup )) G - Paul G - Chill F - Smoove F - Shelden C - Chandler Bench G - 1st rounder ( indy pick? ) . . Law? G - Salim F - Marvin F - Solo C - ZaZa Yep . . looks like a title contender to me. So I guess Paul is going to do his best Steve Nash imitation, and get everybody a ton of open looks? Like he did in NOK? or Smoove is going to be the guy who can not only knock down shots, but create his own offense off the dribble against SFs. or Marvin will play a Adreian Dantley role, and be our leading scorer coming off the bench. LOL. Actually, that's a decent defensive group. But the offense would be horrible. Still no post scorer, seeing that Chandler gets a lot of his points off offensive rebounds, and CP assists.

Funny about the current poll results. The "none of the above" column has the most votes. LOL . . I wonder why?

Quote: Because relative to draft position (21) he has been better than JC, SW, and MW...that is unless you're a BK apologist. . . But he played like a 2nd round talent while he was in ATL. So I guess we blame Woody for not playing a 6-8 player at center like Phoenix did, to maximize his talent. LOL . . OK. When evaluating whether a pick is good or not, you better take more into consideration than where they were selected in the draft. If you say that Diaw was better here than Shelden, I can argue against it, but I can at least see your point on that. If you say that Diaw, relative to where he was drafted, was better than Marvin or Chill, relative to where they were drafted, then you're completely insane. At the very least, Marv and Chill has played like mid-first rounders while in ATL. But Diaw played like a 2nd round talent, who didn't want to improve his overall game. Quote: Diaw fit the needs of our team perfectly. HE WAS DRAFTED BEFORE ANY OF THE PLAYERS OTHERWISE MENTIONED! How could he not fit our needs when drafted given we had needs everywhere?!? I agree with this. And Diaw also got a BIG TIME opportunity to become a key cog in the future of this team. Talent wise, Diaw had the ability to be a notch under Lamar Odom, and NBA scouts knew this. BK knew this as well. So how did he respond? He REGRESSED in his 2nd year, from the flashes of talent he showed in his rookie year. He was given every opportunity to succeed here in ATL, and he flat out didn't respond to the challenge of improving himself in the offseason. Then he started crying when Woody opted to give guys like Smith and Chill his minutes. Woody didn't misuse Diaw . . Diaw played himself OUT of ATL. Quote: Where's the moron icon? Combine Childress' and MW's draft positions (8) and it's still less than half where Diaw was drafted (21). Diaw isn't far behind these two and offers alot that neither of them do. Oh I see now. This is one of your famous "let's look at this from one side ( my side ONLY ), and blast any opinion that looks at it from another side" ( i.e. - a logical standpoint. ) LOL . . gotcha. The guys who tend to be scrubs in the late 1st round, usually don't get a chance to contribute right away in the first place. That's not the case with Diaw. He got a chance right away. His 2nd year was supposed to be his breakout year as a decent player, and he regressed . . period. These guys didn't regress in their 2nd year: - Nate Robinson - Jarrett Jack - David Lee - Leo Barbosa - Josh Howard - Tayshawn Prince - Nenad Kristic - Sam Dalembert - Tony Parker - Mo Peterson - Jake Tsakalidis ( good lord, even he improved ) - Andrei Kirilenko - a 19 year old Al Harrington ( edit: And these are all guys who were drafted between 21st to the end of the 1st round. I forgot to include that in the original posting. ) - And I didn't even mention any of the 2nd round picks that steadily improved their game. So you blame Diaw's lack of success on the coach? Please. Just like with Shelden and Marvin, they each have to bring their talent to the forefront, and improve each year that they're in the league. Diaw was so passive as a Hawk, he only wanted to fit in, not improve himself as a player. As Derrick Coleman would say about Diaw's improvement in Phoenix . . . "whoop-dee-damn-doo"!! He didn't do it here, and didn't DESIRE to improve himself while here. And if it wasn't for Amare's injury last year, Diaw would STILL be a scrub that nobody talks about being a quality player in the NBA. LOL . . and he wouldn't be 45 million dollars richer either. Quote: MORON ICON!!! Take you pick. Where were each player drafted? Still, no way "the most NBA-ready player" in SW had a better rookie year given his age, experience, and familiarity with the American game. The simple fact that you have to question whether a 5th pick isn't FAR better than a 21st pick screams [censored] up! It wasn't a much better rookie year, but Shelden, in my opinion, did have a better rookie year. And don't cry about Diaw and his lack of experience. He was 21 at the time he was drafted. He was an experienced basketball player, with his years of play on the French national teams. And his game was NBA-ready. He was on the NBA draft radar for 2 years, before he declared for the draft. His DESIRE wasn't NBA ready though. That is the same trait that people say Marvin possesses. Difference is, Marvin didn't regress in his 2nd year when given a bigger role on the team. And what happened this year in Phoenix, after he played great last year and got his money? He regressed AGAIN!! He showed up for the beginning of the season fat and out of shape. He didn't work on his outside game, to compliment the rest of the game. And that effectively saw him see a decline in minutes as the season wore on. He's not concerned though. He got his big contract, and can use Amare for taking his "center" spot, as the reason for his decline in minutes. With his talent, he should be making a less skilled player like Raja Bell obsolete. But he isn't. Quote: You're laughable. But oh well. Diaw as a 21st pick produces as well as our HIGH lottery picks. W Not while he was in ATL he didn't. He produced more like Royal Ivey, than Shelden, Chill, or Marvin. LOL . . I guess if we trade Chill, and he blossoms into a very good player somewhere else, that you'll say that the Hawks should've kept him too. You're the Alicia Silverstone of Hawksquawk . . . totally clueless. I know you like to get the last word in, so I'll do like O'Reilly does, and let you have it if you like. Just know that placing Diaw as BK's 2nd best 1st round pick behind Smoove, makes the Sene argument you made last year, look like a great argument. That pick is a failure, not only because the Hawks didn't solve any of their problems as a team by drafting him, but also because they got a player that didn't desire to improve himself in any way, shape, or form while in ATL. Even Phoenix fans have mixed feelings on Diaw these days. LOL . . sounds a lot like Hawks fans 3 years ago. There are three current threads about Diaw on the ESPN boards right now: here's 1 here's 2 here's 3 Like I said . . take the last word if you want. But take it at your own risk Dubya.

I'll always prefer the vet PG.

The lack of a decent PG hurts the overall offensive efficiency of the team. Whether it be a scoring one or a passing one, or one that can do both, it is important to have a good floor leader on the floor. The problem is, the Hawks PGs were hurt all last year, so we don't really know how good/efficient the total group can be. If we draft a PG this year, and he gets hurt, we're in the same boat that we were in this season. But with this team, the Hawks lose games simply because they can't prevent people from scoring at will in the paint. At the very least, we need a defensive deterrent in the middle that can play decent defense in the post. Right now, we're probably stronger at the PG position, with Speedy, Lue and AJ ( if all are healthy ), than we are at Center, seeing that ZaZa and Lo Wright are the only legit ones with size that we have there. The other guys who we play at center ( Smoove, Solomon, and Shelden ), are basically forwards, and have trouble staying out of foul trouble when guarding 5 spot. If we can't defend in the post and keep people from scoring in the paint, it doesn't matter how many points we score. My vote: Center

Question: Why wasn't Diaw listed as BK's worst pick in any of those scenarios? You're talking about how the player has played for us and/or fit the needs of the team, right? In the 2 years that Diaw was here, Chill and Marvin easily had a bigger impact as a player than Diaw. You can even very easily argue that Shelden had a bigger impact in his rookie year, than Diaw had in 2 years here. Diaw waw absolutely HORRIBLE as a player here . . just HORRIBLE. If you'd listed this scenario: Diaw, Chill, SW, MW, & JS . . then I would've voted for that one. Otherwise, I have to vote "none of the above" in that section. Listing Diaw as 4th behind Josh Smith, is laughable. Diaw is arguably the most passive Hawk player in its history who never showed a desire to improve while he was here. 2nd round is easy. Donta, Ivey, SJ, and Salim As of right now Salim has won/impacted more games in his Hawk career ( even this year ), than any of those 2nd round picks. And in the right lineup, Salim could be a bigger asset for the Hawks, than those other guys. So I have to put Salim as being the better pick right now.

Well, that's obvious coming from you . . or anybody with "Smoove" in their username. You guys have ALWAYS tried to dog Marvin on every turn, hoping that he doesn't become a better player than Josh. Marvin is already better than Tim Thomas in his 2nd year, so that comparison pretty much goes out the window. Now, Marvin's mannerisms may resemble Tim Thomas, but he has much more athletic ability and talent than Tim ever had. It's more wishful thinking to think that Marvin won't progress more than what he is right now. I don't see "superstar" in Marvin's future. But I do think that he could easily be on the level of a Glen Rice, or slightly below that.