TheNorthCydeRises

Smoove just has to work on that aspect of his game defensively. He'll get stronger and become more savvy on how to play true PFs. But it takes "heart" to want to be a good defender. Smoove has to translate that same passion he has on offense, and put it to use on defense . . and not just from a shot blocking standpoint. But as to the point that Smoove isn't a 4 . . you could say these guys aren't 4's either: Dirk Nowitzki Lamar Odom Shawn Marion But all are pretty effective when they play the 4 spot. Maybe by early as next year, Smoove could be better than Odom, and possibly better than Marion. Using Smoove offensively at the 4 works better for this team, than using him at the 3. Defensively, it works better too, because Smoove has worse ball defense on good 3's, than he does on good 4's. So playing him at the 4 is what is best for this team. And his numbers on both ends prove this.

Quote: Quote: 2)Since 1997 ( Tim Duncan ), the only top 3 pick that has made it to the NBA finals, is Kenyon Martin. I wonder how many 14th picks have similarly LED a team to the title (twice) since 1997. Hmm? In a vacuum stats look one way. In context they look 1800 degrees another. Seriously, what's better? This team or this team with a top 3 pick in this draft? It's not a trick question. Also, 1997 isn't that long ago in the basketball world, especially with Duncan taking up two of those years and Martin another. Lebron is what? 23 yrs old? There are three exceptions for us: 1) Oden and Durant are as good as any two players at the top of any draft in 10 years. This is NO ORDINARY DRAFT! 2) WE ARE NOT A 3rd WORST TEAM! No matter what our record may end up. Thus, any top 3 pick added to this team could significantly and dramatically improve it's championship hopes whereas top 3 pick, even the best of top 3 picks, added to bad team and they go from a 20 win to 40 win team at best. 3) If I could expand the scope to include top 5 or 7 I would, but we can't keep our pick under these circumstances. We are artificially limited to "top 3"! Expand it to top 10, I bet the odds go up considerably. Big deal. W Walter, all I did was state the facts about the top 3 picks in the draft. You're the one acting like a top 3 pick this year will change our destiny. That ish is just not true. Only Oden and possibly Durant will change anything. And we'll have to either trade Durant, or one of more of the kids immeadiately, in order to bring another guy to the mix, in order for Durant to realize his potential. I can't expand the discussion to top 10, because you're focusing on the top 3. Of course if you have a bunch of top 10 picks on your team, your team SHOULD be better. But you can't have a bunch of YOUNG top 10 picks on your team. You have to mix the young guys with established veterans that may have not played up to their potential when they were "the man". That's the history of the league Walt. Look at Dallas. When you look at their draft picks over the past 10 years, their picks are no better than ours. They even had three 1st round picks in 2000, with the best player in that mix being Etan Thomas. They're a team that went out and spent a ton of money to bring the type of guys that it took to elevate them to championship level. Guys like Dirk, JT, JJ, Dampier, and Stackhouse were all brought in via trades, because their original teams gave up on them. To continue to stock this team with draft picks, without bringing in veterans, will probably not help our situation. Even your obsession with Javaris shows just how clueless you are about all of this. This obsession here of developing a young PG is all well and good. But you have to obtain guys who have an NBA mentality as well. You can't mortgage your future in a young kid like Javaris, and expect him to be a good PG in 2 years time, when he constantly makes mental mistakes right now that limit his greatness. Let the kid stay in school for 2 more years, and see if he can get the mental part of the game down pat. If he does, he may turn out to be a find. If not, he'll be the next Shawn Livingston. The one thing that the past 10 drafts have shown us, is that teams are putting a lot of stock into young kids that don't have NBA ready games. They're basing a lot of their decisions on "potential", much like we did with Marvin. And when you do that, you have to wait 2 - 3 years for them to develop. Meanwhile, the team you currently have may or may not be there when the kid actually develops. Which also means that the entire makeup of the team may be different. It's Oden or bust for us in this draft. And if we do get the #3 pick, we'd almost have to use it on Acie Law, in order to get a guy that is NBA ready. People would scream to the hills if we did that. But if you want to build a "championship team", those are the types of moves that you have to do. We still have one more year with the current group to determine who should go and who should stay. When we decide that, we can then trade one of more of these kids for that disgruntled borderline all-star caliber player that can instantly help us in the short term. But it's like Diesel says. At some point, you have to stop depending on the draft, and develop what you have here to the fullest. You just can't keep recycling guys like the Clippers did throughout the 90s and what the Bulls did for about 5 years, and expect instant results. You have to be in it for the long haul. Oden and Durant should instantly help this team . . IF . . the kids we have now, are solid and consistent NBA players. If they aren't, it doesn't matter who we pick up in the draft. That's why most of your good teams trade for talent, to upgrade their situation, instead of relying on the draft to get there. And that's why teams that rely on the draft, don't normally get to championship level.

PlayaPat, these guys are hilarious. They're mad at Marvin because he wants to be a TEAM PLAYER, and not some primadonna ball hog that takes all the shots. They want him to do like Kobe did in his rookie year, where he thought he was the man and had the green light to take every bad shot possible. What people don't realize, is that most #2 picks come into this league with the opportunity to be "the man" right away. Most #2 picks don't come to a team with a potential all-star player ( JJ ) and a very good offensive player ( Harrington ) already in the lineup. Chris Paul came into a situation where he was almost instantly the best player on the team, and had to shoulder a burden offensively. Deron came into a situation where he was instantly the best PG on the squad, and would get a chance to play major minutes from the jump. Marvin came into a situation where you already had 2 main scoring options, in addition to 2 other forwards that was ahead of him on the learning curve that we were also trying to develop ( Smoove and Chill ). This year is really Marvin's first opportunity to make an impact on this team, and even that was delayed by 19 games at the beginning of the season. But the people all over Marvin will say that these are just "excuses" instead of realizing that these are FACTS. LOL . . this is what the kid is averaging in March. 13.8 ppg 4.1 rebs 45% FG 91% FT ( which is incredible ) He's become one of the most consistent players on this team, yet, these idiots constantly come at Marvin, because he doesn't "want" to be a star? LOL . . that ish is hilarious to me. Meanwhile, while we were winning 4 straight without JJ, you didn't hear a PEEP out of these clowns about Marvin's play. Not ONE WORD. Marvin had 17 points and 8 boards in the Boston loss, yet, people act like he should've had 27 and 12. And LOL @ the notion that because Marvin "supposedly" doesn't watch or isn't passionate about basketball off the court, that it somehow effects his play on the court and his desire to be great. Tell that ish to Karl Malone, who has said plenty of times that he NEVER watched basketball or other people, unless he was actually playing in the game or watching his daughter play. If JJ is going to be the star, and Smoove is going to be the 2nd guy, Marvin is going to turn out to be a very good #3 guys for us. Let the kid develop his game and stop expecting ish to just magically happen overnight. It took 2.5 seasons for us to see the potential in Smoove. It took 2.25 seasons to see Chill turn into a consistent player. But Marvin is supposed to be a star overnight, just because he's the #2 pick, but the #3 option AT BEST on the team? LOL @ that logic. Lay off the kid. He's doing exactly what he's being told to do. And he's becoming a very consistent player.

Quote: He sucked today, especially down the stretch. No way do I want him. He needs one more year of school, maybe 2. He's definitely not NBA ready because his mind isn't NBA ready.

First, let's list the guys who have been top 3 picks since the lottery made it's debut in 1985 till the 2005 draft class. 1985: Pat Ewing, Wayman Tisdale, Benoit Benjamin 1986: Brad Daughtery, Len Bias, Chris Washburn 1987: David Robinson, Armon Gilliam, Dennis Hopson 1988: Danny Manning, Rik Smits, Charles Smith 1989: Pervis Ellison, Danny Ferry, Sean Elliott 1990: Derrick Coleman, Gary Payton, Chris Jackson ( Mahmo Abdul-Rauf ) 1991: Larry Johnson, Kenny Anderson, Billy Owens 1992: Shaquille O'Neal, Alonzo Mourning, Christian Laettner 1993: Chris Webber, Shawn Bradley, Anfernee Hardaway 1994: Glenn Robinson, Jason Kidd, Grant Hill 1995: Joe Smith, Antonio McDyess, Jerry Stackhouse 1996: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim 1997: Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horn, Chauncey Billups 1998: Michael Olowokandi, Mike Bibby, Raef LaFrentz 1999: Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis 2000: Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles 2001: Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol 2002: Yao Ming, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy 2003: LeBron James, Darko Milicic, Carmelo Anthony 2004: Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon 2005: Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, Deron Williams 21 years worth of top 3 picks here. Here are some things of note. 1)In almost ALL of these drafts, there has been at least one pick out of the top 3, that turned out to be no more than just a good player, not a superstar or a franchise-changing player. That's significant to note in our situation, seeing that the two "franchise changing" players in this draft are Oden and Durant. That makes whoever gets that #3 spot this year, a candidate to pick up a player that will be only "good", but nowhere near great, when he comes into the league. 2)Since 1997 ( Tim Duncan ), the only top 3 pick that has made it to the NBA finals, is Kenyon Martin. And you can make a pretty good deduction that even he doesn't make it, if not for Jason Kidd coming from Phoenix in the Marbury deal. And the only reason why Kidd was traded, was because of the domestic violence issues he was having at the time. 3) Of the #1 picks in this sample, only Tim Duncan, David Robinson, and Shaquille O'Neal have won NBA Championships. This is the reason why people act like crack fiends to get Oden. A great big man is usually a good building block in order to be a winner. The question you have to ask yourself is this . . . is Oden "great", or is he just "good, but a little overhyped". The one thing about Duncan, Robinson, and Shaq, is that they were probably better offensive big men, than they were defensive big men. They could dominate games on both ends of the floor on a consistent basis, no matter who they were matched up against. Oden can dominate on the defensive end, but he isn't an offensive force just yet in college. Maybe if he stayed in school another 2 years, he'd be the total package offensively and defensively. If he comes out this year, he could hold his own defensively, but will he develop into a great offensive center? And his development in the NBA may have a whole lot to do with who will feed him the ball from the PG position. 4) The vast majority of top 3 picks FAILED to elevate the original team that drafted them, to "conference championship contender" level . . especially in the last 15 years or so. Partially because of expansion in the NBA, the quality of players each team have, has been watered down considerably. And with the youth of some of these teams, the experience of these players also contributes to the lack of success that some of these guys go to. Take the difference between David Robinson entering the league, compared to Alonzo Mourning. Robinson was drafted in 1986, but didn't enter the league until 1989, because of his 3 year commitment to the Navy. The year before Robinson entered the league, the Spurs were 21 - 61 and had this lineup of core players: Willie Anderson, Alvin Robertson, Johnny Dawkins, Cadillac Anderson, Frank Brickowski, and Vernon Maxwell Because of the poor record, the Spurs were able to get the #3 pick in that draft, and take Sean Elliott. So when the 1989 season started, it was almost like the Spurs obtained the #1 and #3 pick in the draft. This was their team in 1989, which went 56 - 26. David Robinson, Terry Cummings, Willie Anderson, Rod Strickland( who was obtained in a trade ), Sean Elliott, and Vernon Maxwell. Many people think the immeadiate turnaround of the Spurs was due to Robinson. And it was . . . just not totally. Cummings would be a solid #2, and sometimes #1 scoring option for that team ( 22.4 ppg ). Adding Strickland gave them a very nice PG to run the show, after being in the shadow of Mark Jackson in New York. And Elliott could have time to mold himself into a very good player by playing off of Robinson and Cummings. We all know the story of the Robinson led Spurs. They had the talent, but they seemed to come up short all the time. And they drew the label of being "soft", especially Robinson. The Hall of Fame center in Robinson, only led the Spurs to the WCFinals only once . . before he got additional help in Tim Duncan. Switch gears and look at Alonzo Mourning. Kind of like the Spurs, the Hornets were able to obtain the top pick in Larry Johnson the year before. Zo and LJ did great things in Zo's rookie year, reaching the 2nd round of the playoffs, but that team was far from being a contender of anything. They flat out missed the playoffs the following year, and were one and done the next year. Mourning bolts to Miami, where he had more success team-wise, but could never get over the hump. 5) Of the guys on this list that have played in the NBA Finals, the vast majority had to be on the same team, to get there. And that means that they couldn't do it by themselves. They needed help . . . major help. - Duncan, Robinson, and Elliott - Kidd and Martin - Mourning and Shaq - Ewing and Larry Johnson When you look at Denver, they currently have 3 former Top 3 picks, in Iverson, Carmelo, and Camby. It hasn't paid off for them yet, but maybe it will next year. One thing is for sure, only Iverson was able to get there by himself. The rest needed help, or ride the coattails of a better player. ********** The fact is this. If you're looking to build a championship caliber team, you better get: - 2 All-Star caliber players - a #3 guy who could be a star on another team, but is a very good complimentary player on your ream - a defensive specialist - an offensive specialist ( whether it be a slasher or a 3 point artist ) - and about 3 - 4 other guys who are very solid basketball players. Championship teams have very few holes in their lineup. And not just in the starting lineup. I'm talking about on the entire team. Even with Duncan, he came to a team that already had 2 all-star caliber players and some very solid role players. That team didn't change overnight, because of him. Do your own research into how effective or ineffective a Top 3 pick can be on a squad.

Quote: Quote: I don't cheer against my team under ANY circumstances. We need more fans like you! I wish the tankers would go choose another team...It's embarrassing to have people claiming to be "fans" actually cheering for us to lose. I understand the "tankers" position. It's just that their thinking is highly flawed. I got an hour left at work. I'm about to post a thread about the top 3 picks since the lottery. It'll be interesting reading, if I can get it done within the next hour.

Good post Bus. And of course, I'm cheering for the Hawks all the way. I don't cheer against my team under ANY circumstances.

LOL @ hot. PP is an all-star caliber player, and probably makes the All-Star team this year, if he didn't get hurt. Of course he makes a difference for the C's. Celtics have won 6 of their last 9 games.

Quote: JJ did try to dribble through double teams a lot rather than passing out quickly. It looked like he felt he had to carry the load himself. Hopefully now he realizes that the young guys are developing and he should trust them more. JJ does trust the young guys. He has no problem deferring to them. It's just that when you get down by 7 - 9 points because the young guys are turning the ball over ( Smoove - 9 turnovers in the Knicks game ) . . or not making their shots ( Marvin going through those 4 - 5 straight miss lulls in his game ), then the star player has to take things into his own hands. The youngins need to be consistent. If that happens, we'll be a better team, even with JJ plays. Smoove has gotten 15 shots up in a game before, but never came close to making 10 - 15 . . let alone 12 of 15. And when is the last time ZaZa grabbed 15 rebounds? Salim with a 13 point, 5 rebound, 4 assist game? These kids need to do this when JJ plays, not just when he's out. If they do this when he plays, we'd win games more comfortably, and JJ wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a game.

Quote: really when it came to utah and phoenix, they had a much better situation going into rebuilding than we did. utah had two HOFers still on the team when they started to slide so they were still able to put up the sense that they were a legit team. they also hit it big in the draft with AK47. but the jazz still were criticized when they gave out the deals to boozer and okur, it hasn't been smooth sailing for them and their fans gave their GM the same flack that we give BK. only now that they've had time to adjust to the team are they good. don't forget that they weren't a playoff team either for a while. phoenix benifits alot from keeping their draft picks. they drafted and developed four of their starters, and used another rookie (joe johnson - traded rookie year to them) to aquire another. they were able to get free agents later on (nash, thomas' and bell) later on but they had to endure a couple bad seasons before showing others that they were ready to compete. Good post. I'll add a few things to it. I don't think citing Phoenix and Utah as examples of how a franchise goes from zero to playoffs is a good example for us at all. Consider this: Phoenix has had two sub-500 seasons in the past 7 years. But before each of those seasons, they made the playoffs by winning 51 games in 00 - 01, and 44 games in 02 - 03. So it wasn't like they were totally going through a rebuilding phase when they were losing. People forget that Kidd was the PG in Phoenix at that time. And the ONLY reason why they let him go, was because of the domestic violence issues that he and his wife were having. Phoenix then trades Kidd in exchange in Marbury. Plus Phoenix lost their 3rd leading scorer from the 00 - 01 season ( Cliff Robinson - 16 ppg ) in that deal. The 01 - 02 Suns featured Marion, Marbury, and Anfernee Hardaway. And they were the ONLY double digit scorers on that team. They didn't have enough talent to compete. That's why they fell off that year, winning 36 games. So then that franchise takes a huge gamble on a high school kid in a 2002 draft that only saw ONE HS kid get drafted. He turns out to be an instant stud, and the Suns win 44 games the next year. The 03 - 04 Suns were pretty much destined to be a 40 - 50 win team, but Amare got hurt in December of that year, which led to the Suns sliding dramatically. Couple that with the franchise and fans being disappointed in Marbury's inconsistent play, and it spelled disaster for the Suns that year. Actually, the franchise and the fans expected Marbury to really elevate his play after Amare went down. And he actually played well, from an assist standpoint when Amare was out. But his shooting was erratic at best, and it cost Phoenix a lot of close games. So he became the scapegoat for why Phoenix was losing, instead of the obvious reason of Amare being out. But their foundation was already set with Marion, Amare, and Joe Johnson, who had improved dramatically that season. So when they got the opportunity to get Nash away from Dallas, the cycle was pretty much complete for them. ********* When you look at Utah, they've never fallen completely off the map, even with Stockton and Malone retiring. The year after their 2 Hall of Famers left the Jazz, Utah still managed to win 42 games, even though they didn't make the playoffs. And the only reason why they won 26 games during the 04 - 05 season, is because their "do-it-all guy" AK47 got hurt at the end of November, and the Jazz went into a 2 month freefall while he was out. That's the ONLY season since the 1982 - 83 season, in which the Jazz has had a sub-500 season. *********** Our situation is a lot like what the Bulls went through after Michael, Scottie, and Dennis left Chicago, than anything. Like that Chicago team, we had to totally rebuild from scratch, and struggle to get quality free agents to the team. Remember, they used to be a team with a lot of young players that also had trouble attracting that big time free agent. A lot of people expected T-Mac to actually go to Chicago, but he turned them down and went to Orlando. And Chicago had to give up some assets in order to get a good player ( at the time ) in Jalen Rose, to try to build the team around. The difference between us and them, is that when we acquired JJ, we didn't give up guys like a Josh Smith or Josh Childress in the process. But when they acquired Rose, they gave up a Brad Miller and a Ron Artest. People complain about how our GM mortgaged our future when we gave up Diaw + the 2 1st round draft picks. Imagine if BK would've done what Chicago did, and gave Phoenix three players that they currently had on the roster. Phoenix right now . . with Josh Smith, Diaw and Josh Childres, would be flat out SCARY right now, with a tremendously deep bench. At least BK kept the assets that he had then, in order to get the player he wanted. Chicago did just the opposite, and eventually saw Brad Miller and Ron Artert turn into 2 very good players for about 3 seasons. When you look at what the Bulls could've had, the lineup in 01 - 02 season, if they still did the Rose trade, but KEPT Elton Brand, could've looked like this. C - Curry ( 2001 draft pick ) PF - Brand F - Artest G - Jalen Rose PG - Travis Best With guys like Brad Miller, Trenton Hassell, Ron Mercer, Jamal Crawford, and a vet like Charles Oakley . . comprising their bench. So in essence, the Phoenix and Utah situations are NOTHING like ours.

Well . . that's because we don't have good post up players. I mean, JJ might be our best post-up player, with AJ a close 2nd. Marvin and Smoove still need to work on their post games, and they seem to only be effective when they're posting someone up who is much smaller than they are.

Actually, Smoove played the 5 for most of the 2nd half. Maybe he's our Ben Wallace type center. A Big Ben that can score. Big Ben . . 6-9 . . 240 lbs Smoove . . 6-9 . . 235 lbs LOL . . maybe we already have our center here. Just tell Smoove to do whatever he did last summer, and put on another 10 pounds of muscle. Then you can make room for Shelden at the 4, and be set for next year. PG - Speedy/AJ G - JJ F - Marvin F - Shelden F/C - Smoove Send Smoove to one of those Big Man camps, and see if he can develop a post move or two. Then use his quickness and new strength against the 5's in this league, ala what Camby does.

I know people have already explained it, but here is the last play, as I saw it. And since I RECORD all Hawks games on SportSouth, even when I'm seeing the game live at a sports bar, I've viewed the final 2.8 seconds over and over by now. The Play: - Play is obviously designed for either Marvin or JJ, diving toward the baseline toward Chill. With the way Marvin broke toward the ball, I think he was actually the 1st option in that play. If he catches the ball at point blank range, he probably gets fouled, goes to the line, and hits 2 FTs. - If not, JJ was the 1st option, seeing that he was coming hard toward Chill from the wing to the baseline. He would've had a chance to either make a move and take a 15 footer, or get the ball to someone else . . possibly even Childress . . if multiple defenders came at JJ to disrupt the shot. - But by looking at the play, I think Marvin and JJ were the two options ONLY if the Wizards decided to play everyone man-to-man. But they didn't. They played zone on that play, with Lue's defender ( Arenas ), slacking off of him to help to the middle in case JJ or Marvin got the ball. All 5 Wizards defenders were below the dotted circle in the lane. So Lue was obviously the last option. And he ended up being the guy who was wide open. Inbounds Pass: - Childress threw the ball in at 3 seconds, not 4. You could see the ref counting down. And his count was relatively slow. - Before Childress inbounded the ball, you could see one of the Hawks assistant coaches pointing toward Lue. Chill then threw the ball to Lue about 1/2 second later. - Lue, who was all alone at the top of the arc, was waving his arms to receive the pass. But for some odd reason, he drifted about 15 feet back, maybe so Chill could see him better. The Play DESTROYER: - Deshawn Stevenson. LOL . . and I slowed this down and watched it for about 5 minutes. Deshawn actually breaks toward Lue, a split second before Childress even started his motion to throw the ball to him. I don't know if Deshawn saw the assistant coach pointing toward Lue, or if he saw Lue by himself behind the 3 point line. - But when you look at this play over and over, he was the ONLY Wizard player that was looking at his man, Childress, and what Lue was doing. Arenas was closer to Lue, but his sole focus was on JJ. Same with Haywood and Butler looking at Marvin. If Deshawn doesn't break toward Lue, Lue could've comfortably taken one dribble, and shot a wide open 3 to possibly win the game. What could the Hawks done differently?: - If anything, Lue should've just slid to the left side of the 3 point line about 10 feet, instead of drifting so far backwards. If he just drifts to his left, and not back and to the left ( LOL . . that sounds like Kevin Costner in the movie JFK describing Kennedy's head being blown off . . back . and to the left, back . . and to the left, back . . and to the left ), Stevenson may still get to him, but he's about 15 feet closer to the basket. And it may have enabled him to make a pass to an open man. - One other point. By the time Lue caught the pass and landed on his feet, Deshawn was all over him. At that time, the guy who was immeadiately open, was SMOOVE, not JJ. JJ didn't break open until after Lue took that first dribble. But Smoove was open at the 3 point line, the minute Deshawn left him to race out to Lue. So if anything, Lue could've caught the ball, and immeadiately swung it to Smoove, who would've had Haywood running at him, but may have been able to get off his 3-point attempt before Brendan could disrupt his shot. Verdict: Childress is excused of all blame on that play. Blame Stevenson for having great defensive awareness, to destroy that play.

Quote: Quote: WTF is wrong with you? HE HAD NO TIMEOUTS LEFT!!! The problem with Pete is like Most HSers he has his favs.. and he wants to make Chillz to be the scapegoat by hook or by crook. The truth is that there were no magical timeouts left. Chillz didn't do the Chris Webber. He just passed it to the only open man there was. Stevenson got a good jump on Lue's shot. I was hoping Lue would have time to swing it to Smoove but Lue stumbled... My problem is "what was Lue doing in the game?" Where was AJ? We needed somebody who had played in a game over the last 10 days. LOL @ this coming from you. (( referring to the Marvin is Improving thread )) But you did tell the truth. If someone likes a player, they tend to defend him no matter what. If they hate the player or coach, they'll try to find everything possible to show him in a negative light.

No sense in signing him to a long term extension now. We can always get that done sometime during the season next year. The quesiton with Smoove becomes this: (1) does he sign a standard 5 or 6 year deal that will guarantee that he's a Hawk for a long time . . or (2) does he go the rout that Melo, Wade, and LeBron all went, and sign a big money 3 year extension, so that he can weigh his options at the end of the deal?

Quote: You have no idea what your talking about...none. BTW, I would have been fine with Foye. But I have seen enough of Roy to know that the PG spot is fine with him. He looks a helluva lot better than Speedy who has scored 14 points in the last 6 games and has been held scoreless in half of them. Roy is a future ALL Star and you don't pass on guys like that to pick a D league player like EL STIFFO. FYI...if Childress can play the PG some...Roy damn sure can. Texas . . to make a comment like that, means that you're the one that doesn't know what he's talking about. Putting Roy at the point, would be like us putting Chill at the point full time. Teams can get away with it in short stretches, but not throughout the game. The Hawks would be dead in the water if we made the decision to play Chill at the point for over 20 minutes a game. Chill can't guard quick PGs who penetrate. And Roy can't either. Roy hardly ever plays the point in Portland, yet, you think he'll be "fine" if he were the starting PG here? LOL. Roy is a SG. He plays his best when he's at the SG. He played the point in Portland, whenever Juan Dixon was in the game, and none of the other PGs were playing. Now that Dixon is gone, he's almost exclusively at the 2, because Portland is making a big time effort to make him the #2 option in the offense more than ever. Roy is a very good young player. But he's not a PG, not even close to one. What he is though, is an unselfish ballplayer that doesn't mind giving up the rock, and find the open man. That's how he gets the vast majority of his assists. But he isn't the guy you want dribbling the ball up the court, being pressured. Not that he'll turn the ball over, but you want that guy getting the ball in scoring position, not in a giving position. Roy's offense struggles when he played the point, and so did his defense. He's a natural 2, and that's the position he should play. You people advocating bringing in Roy, think about it the wrong way. You don't play Roy at the point, with all of these other kids. If you want Roy here, you play him at the 2, and move JJ to the 3. But when you do that, you move Marvin straight to the bench and reduce the number of minutes that Childress plays. Either way, bringing in Roy would slow the development of one or both of our lottery picks ( Marvin and Chill ). That's why BK passed on the kid, even if he does turn out to be a big time player. BK still believes that Marvin will turn out to be just as good, if not better. At least if you go after Foye, you could legitimately make a case about him playing the point, mainly because he can defend the position far better than Roye, and he has the body to absorb contact when he goes to the hole. But then again, most of you guys don't believe anything, until you see some "stats". So I'll use Ex's favorite site . . 82games.com: Foye: http://www.82games.com/0607/06MIN4C.HTM Roy: http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR4C.HTM But heck, I knew this ish even before looking it up . . because I WATCH THE LEAGUE, not just stats or box scores . . or highlight clips of a player on SportsCenter. I'm not just a die hard Hawks fan, I'm a die hard NBA fan. I watch everybody any chance I get, because I love NBA basketball. Brandon Roy may become an all-star . . but he'd never reach his potential playing the point. And frankly, Minnesota is probably slowing Foye's potential as a great player, by playing him at the point. But right now, Foye at the point for Minny, is what is best for the team. So if you wanted a PG, Foye is the choice, and the most likely to gain a starting spot for the Hawks. On the other hand, I could easily see Roy coming off the bench here, because we couldn't bench Marvin in favor of playing Roy at the 2. Roy would get time, but he wouldn't play 35 minutes a game here, like he is in Portland. He might see 20 - 25 minutes a game. And if that happened, he wouldn't be the Rookie of the Year here. You guys need to start thinking about things at all angles, and not just assume that a player playing great somewhere else, could play just as good here. If the situation here isn't similar to where he came from, the results wouldn't be the same. As far as Shelden goes, he's the perfect example of what could happen to Roy here. His talents could be suppressed simply because he has a better player in front of him taking minutes away from him ( which would be JJ ). Put Shelden in a situation in which he could instantly be a starter, and his numbers and level of play would greatly improve. I mean, even when he was the starter back in November, he played pretty good basketball, and got recognized for it as a top 5 rookie. Shelden just needs to work harder in the offseason, to get back into the rotation. Right now, he seems destined to be a decent backup PF to bring off the bench for us, if Smoove keeps playing at a high level at PF.

Maybe . . but I doubt it. Curry was a scorer, Chandler was a defender. I don't think each of them could co-exist with one another. And because the Chicago guards dominate the ball so much, I can't see both of them emerging into the players that they've become. Chandler DEFINITELY benefits from playing with Chris Paul. Paul probably gets him 2 - 3 easy baskets a night. Look for the battle between he and ZaZa to be very interesting. ZaZa is a crafty scorer that uses his body and position to get to the hoop, even if he barely gets off the ground. Chandler is trying to develop somewhat of a post game, with a jump-hook and decent pivot moves on the block. But it's when they get ZaZa in the pick and roll, that Chandler will probably get his points.

Not to . . . but once again, Brandon Roy cannot play PG for extended minutes on the NBA level. If you watch Brandon play, you would know that. He gets his assists the same way Vince Carter gets his assists, by passing to wide open shooters after a team tries to double team him. Surely you wouldn't suggest that Vince play PG for the Nets, if Kidd or Williams happened to get hurt, just because Vince averages 4.5 assists/gm? I've watched about 10 Portland games this year . . 6 with Brandon playing. Brandon has pretty good court vision and can find people in a half court set when a team tries to double team him. When he drives, he almost always shoots, but he has shown the ability to dump a pass off to a center or PF, if the defense converges on him. He's like a poor man's version of Jalen Rose right now, although Jalen had a little better court vision and could direct a team from the PG position. Offensively, he reminds me a lot of Jalen, when Jalen was starting to emerge as a good player in this league. But a PG is supposed to control the tempo of the game and run an offense. Brandon can't do that. That's why Portland plays Jack and Sergio, and even Dickau at the point. And Brandon can't even begin to defend at the PG position. He'd have the same problem that JJ had defending PGs last season. So if you want to cry about us passing on a player, don't cry about passing on Roy, cry about passing on Randy Foye. He's the guy that is now showing the ability that he can adjust his game to a PG mindset, while also showing the ability to guard PGs adequately. He and my boy Trenton Hassell did a pretty good job defending Gilbert Arenas Sunday night. Foye has just about rendered Mike James obsolete in Minny . . which makes Kevin McHale the worst GM in the league. Nobody even thought about giving Mike James a significant amount of money, not even BK. But McHale pretty much gave James 25 million for the next 4 years without even blinking. At least BK can use the excuse that Speedy is hurt. James is healthy, and got his spot taken by a rookie SG. But even Foye isn't a better PG right now, than the current PGs we have on the roster. Potentially though, he could be better at that position . . in about 2 years. LOL . . people talk about us paying out 12 million next year to 3 backup PGs. McHale will pay out almost 17.6 million to two guys who don't even see playing time ( Marko Jaric and Troy Hudson ), and to Mike James, who got benched in favor of Foye. To make it worse, Jaric, Hudson, and James are ALL under contract through 2010 ( if they aren't bought out before then ), in which the 3 could be making a combined 20 MILLION. If KG gives up that 22 million he's due in Minny next year, takes a lot less money, and tries to go somewhere else just to win a title, that Minnesota franchise is pretty much done for the next 5 - 7 years, unless Foye turns into Dwyane Wade, and McCants turns into Ray Allen. There are so many situations around the league that are FAR WORSE than what we have here. A lot of teams are/will be stuck in limbo. We're steadily on the way up, with an unlimited ceiling for the next 2 - 4 years.

That number is in direct correlation to Lue being hurt and Salim not being able to hit the side of the barn. People on this board just don't realize how Lue's injury has impacted this offense. Lue was definitely on pace to knock down close to 100 threes this year. With JJ commanding all of those double teams, it was Lue that was finidng himself wide open back in November. That's why Lue was scoring so much and the Hawks offense was looking so good. Then there's the Salim situation. I wish that Salim would just adjust his game, and take that open 20 footer or even get to the hole and see if he can draw a foul, instead of taking those rushed 24 footers after dribbling one time, that he always love to take. He's a hardheaded basketball player though, and that's why he's riding the pine with splinters in his butt these days. AJ isn't the guy you want jacking up a lot of threes. Lue is the guy you want shooting. Everybody keeps saying to draft a big man or a PG in this draft, and I'm not against that at all. But don't be surprised if the Hawks draft a 6-5 . . 6-6 G/F shooter to replace Salim or Ivey on the bench. Or at the very least, sign one of those guys as a cheap free agent.

One more thing. Woody gets crucified on this site about his lack of an offense and the fact that the Hawks don't run a lot. 2 questions to that: 1) How many good running teams are there in the league, that doesn't have a good PG making the decisions on the break? 2) How many teams rely on their SFs and PFs to lead fast breaks? I mean, that's basically what you guys are asking Woody to do. Have someone like Smoove or Childress lead the fast break and make the right decision. Personally, I cringe everytime Smoove pushes the ball up the floor. I don't mind him running it into the frontcourt. But I don't want him making decisions on the fast break. He should be the finisher, not the distributor. Speedy is more like Turtley these days. He can't run for extended minutes. Lue is hurt. Salim could run the break, but do you want that guy making the decisions on the break? LOL . . even that good pass he made to Marvin in the Spurs game, he acutally took 3 steps before Marvin got the ball. The refs didn't call it though. Ivey? I guess he should run the break . . lol. JJ? JJ could do it, but he's better off spotting up for a 3, than actually making the decision to take the ball all the way to the hole. So basically, Woody has to work with what he has. He'll let the kids run in spurts, which is all they should be doing right now. AJ isn't a guy known to push tempo, so don't expect us to run with him either. Woody isn't perfect, but he's probably had to do more with his personnel, than any other coach in the league.

With that shoulder injury of his, the Hawks should "test" it. Bang him around a little when he does drive to the hole. But I would really make an effort NOT to double Nash. Make him be the scorer tonight. But most coaches can't take the fact that he gets lay-ups a lot, so they try to take the ball out of his hands. I say, take away everybody else, and see if Nash and Amare can beat us by themselves. Tonight should be a good game. I don't know if we'll win our not, but I'd be shocked to see a blowout either way. Like most Hawk games, it'll go down to the wire.

Quote: I will admit to being 1 of the Woody bashers on this site. Something hit me as I was reading a post about Marvin maturing as a player and developing into a star. Why do we not give coaches the same developement period? Just want to hear what u guys think. The question you should be asking is . . . "why not give the coaches CREDIT for developing these players?" A lot of people on this board think that Josh's transformation has everything to do with his change in mindset as a player, rather than the COACHES actually changing his mindset as an offensive player. The same goes for Marvin and Childress. It's actually the coaches putting these young players in position to become better players. These coaches are constantly challenging these young players to raise their level of play. I like what Woody said about Smoove after the Chicago loss. (( paraphrasing )) "We have to get back on working on Josh ( Smith ). We don't want to take the jumpshot away from him, but we also want him to drive the ball more and get easier looks at the basket." That's straight from the coaches mouth. That same coach that 85% of the posters despise around here. Yet, those same people will give all of the credit to the transformation of Smoove, to Smoove only. Saying that Woody and the staff had a lot to do with Smoove's transformation as a player, would be a slap in the face to everything they believe about Woody. Things the coaches have done with the kids since all of them have been able to play together this year: Smoove: (1) Move him almost permanately to the 4 spot, to create possible offensive mismatches against bigger and slower 4's. That move to the 4 spot has also increased the number of rebounds the kid can grab, especially on the defensive end. He's even played the 5 on a few occasions when both ZaZa and Ren are having "difficulty". Smoove has grabbed double figure rebounds in 10 of his last 16 games. When he reaches that double figure number, we're 7 - 3 in those games. (2) Stressed upon him to not settle for every open look he has from 18 feet on out. They're telling him to take it to the basket and possibly draw fouls. He's gone to the line 70 times this month . . 15 more than he went to the line back in November. (3) Worked on his post up offense. He's developing a little jump hook, especially when matcehd up against players his size or smaller. His post game still needs a lot of work, but the coaches are doing just that . . working on it with him. Marvin: (1) Encouraging him to spot up somewhere around the 18 - 21 foot range, so that he can receive a pass and immeadiately shoot the open jumper without rushing the shot. If you remember last year, Marvin would come in the game, and take at least one 3-pointer to try to develop some range on his shot. Since Smoove's return on Jan 12, Marvin has taken a total of 5 threes. He's concentrating on developing his mid-range jumper when he does get that open look almost exclusively. (2) When the jumper isn't falling, they're telling him to ATTACK ! Although he needs to become a better finisher when he does get to the hole, it's evident that he has the ability to get to the basket and cause problems for the opponent. And he probably needs to attack more than he already does. (3) When matched up against a smaller player, he's posting up. That's a call that usually comes from the sideline. Some teams think they can get away with playing their 2-guard on Marvin, while letting their bigger SF guard JJ. When that happens, Marvin usually has a play ran for him where he posts up the smaller man. Sometimes he scores. A lot of times, he draws a foul and gets to the line. Childress: (1) Enabling him to impact the game in a variety of ways by playing him at three positions PG, SG, SF. As a PG, he concentrates more at playing defense and possibly posting up the smaller PG. Like Marvin, the call for a Chill post up usually comes from Woody. As a SG, he's usually open for that 18 - 22 foot shot that he knocks down so much, and usually draws the assignment to guard the other team's best 2 or 3 on the floor at the time.. As a SF, he really becomes very active around the basket, almost Tayshawn Prince-like, while doing all those other things. (2) Because of his ability to play 3 positions, and because of our PG injury situation, his minutes have increased. Out of the 3 kids, Childress has been playing the most minutes since Jan. 12. While people criticize everything about the organization, I love the way Woody and the coaches have persevered through everything, and not quit on these kids. They work with what they have, and try to make the best of it. Few people will give them credit for that, but the ASG definitely notices the hard work that Woody and his staff puts in on a nightly basis. That's one of the reasons why they're not quick to do what most of the fans say, and get rid of Woody.

Making the playoffs means that this team will have to win at least 37 or 38 games. That means that we'd have to finish the season with about an 18 - 11 record. If this team finishes that strong to end the year, and gets in the playoffs . . AND . . if the current ownership group is still in place, BK and Woody aren't going anywhere. The key to our upcoming run, may be how we play against the Wizards and Heat. We still have 3 games coming up with each of them, with 3 of those games coming in the first week in March. Sweep the Wiz and the Heat, and we have a damn good shot at this. Get swept by the Wiz, and we'll have to really take care of business against the teams on our level. I'll take a 2 - 1 record over the Wiz the rest of the way, but a sweep against the Heat. 4 - 2 at the very least.

He got ticked off because SA couldn't pull away from us. Teams still act like we're this squad that everyone is supposed to run right over. Like we have no talent here. Then they acutally get in the game, and get into a dogfight, and wonder what happened when the game is over. I stopped back in January trying to predict wins and losses for this team. I truly don't know what team will show up. I have noticed that we usually don't play well against physical teams. The way this team plays, they could lose by 15 Sunday against Phoenix, but go to Dallas and beat them by 6. That's why I watch the Hawks and take everything one game at a time.

I use that date, because that's the day that Smoove came back from injury, and the team started playing better. Here are some stats of note since that day: - As a team, we're 12 - 10 overall - When JJ scores 25 points or less, we're 3 - 6 . . when he goes for 30 or more points we're 7 - 1 - When Smoove scores 21 points or more, we're 5 - 1 - When Marvin scores 12 points or less, we're 9 - 4 - When JJ, Smoove, Marvin and Childress score a combined 70 or more points, we're 7 - 2. Not to defeat the purpose of the thread, but I think Marvin having a good game points wise, isn't the issue. I think Marvin needs to just come up big when asked to, even if he's struggling with his shot. That could either be on the offensive or defensive ends of the floor. Fact is . . we usually don't win, unless JJ is playing at all-star level, no matter how everyone else is playing. He really has to look to score 30 every night, until the rest of this team can provide him and the team with additional scoring help. That help may come in the form of Lue or AJ. But as Bus said, it can also come in the form of Marvin upping his game to that 17 - 20 per night level. Until that time comes, JJ needs to take good shots, and shoot often. I think Walter, about a few weeks ago, made the correlation that Smoove and Marvin hardly ever play a good game together. And that's true for the most part. Fortunately, Childress usually steps up his game, whenever Marvin or Smoove are struggling. But when all 4 guys ( JJ, Smoove, Chill, and Marvin ) are playing well, this team is tough to beat . . even without a PG or a C. One thing about this team is this . . players need to be willing to defer to the other guy, if he's not necessarily playing well . . unless his name is JJ. I say that, because JJ is the one guy on this team that can start a game 1 - 5 . . 2 - 8 . . but hit his next 5 or 6 shots in a row. No one else on this team can do that. So if Smoove starts a game out 2 - 9, like in the San Antonio game, I want to see him defer more to others and try to get them easy looks, instead of forcing bad shots that he can't make. Same goes for Marvin and Chill. Only JJ should have the green light on this team.