TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: Quote: WTF is wrong with you? HE HAD NO TIMEOUTS LEFT!!! The problem with Pete is like Most HSers he has his favs.. and he wants to make Chillz to be the scapegoat by hook or by crook. The truth is that there were no magical timeouts left. Chillz didn't do the Chris Webber. He just passed it to the only open man there was. Stevenson got a good jump on Lue's shot. I was hoping Lue would have time to swing it to Smoove but Lue stumbled... My problem is "what was Lue doing in the game?" Where was AJ? We needed somebody who had played in a game over the last 10 days. LOL @ this coming from you. (( referring to the Marvin is Improving thread )) But you did tell the truth. If someone likes a player, they tend to defend him no matter what. If they hate the player or coach, they'll try to find everything possible to show him in a negative light.

No sense in signing him to a long term extension now. We can always get that done sometime during the season next year. The quesiton with Smoove becomes this: (1) does he sign a standard 5 or 6 year deal that will guarantee that he's a Hawk for a long time . . or (2) does he go the rout that Melo, Wade, and LeBron all went, and sign a big money 3 year extension, so that he can weigh his options at the end of the deal?

Quote: You have no idea what your talking about...none. BTW, I would have been fine with Foye. But I have seen enough of Roy to know that the PG spot is fine with him. He looks a helluva lot better than Speedy who has scored 14 points in the last 6 games and has been held scoreless in half of them. Roy is a future ALL Star and you don't pass on guys like that to pick a D league player like EL STIFFO. FYI...if Childress can play the PG some...Roy damn sure can. Texas . . to make a comment like that, means that you're the one that doesn't know what he's talking about. Putting Roy at the point, would be like us putting Chill at the point full time. Teams can get away with it in short stretches, but not throughout the game. The Hawks would be dead in the water if we made the decision to play Chill at the point for over 20 minutes a game. Chill can't guard quick PGs who penetrate. And Roy can't either. Roy hardly ever plays the point in Portland, yet, you think he'll be "fine" if he were the starting PG here? LOL. Roy is a SG. He plays his best when he's at the SG. He played the point in Portland, whenever Juan Dixon was in the game, and none of the other PGs were playing. Now that Dixon is gone, he's almost exclusively at the 2, because Portland is making a big time effort to make him the #2 option in the offense more than ever. Roy is a very good young player. But he's not a PG, not even close to one. What he is though, is an unselfish ballplayer that doesn't mind giving up the rock, and find the open man. That's how he gets the vast majority of his assists. But he isn't the guy you want dribbling the ball up the court, being pressured. Not that he'll turn the ball over, but you want that guy getting the ball in scoring position, not in a giving position. Roy's offense struggles when he played the point, and so did his defense. He's a natural 2, and that's the position he should play. You people advocating bringing in Roy, think about it the wrong way. You don't play Roy at the point, with all of these other kids. If you want Roy here, you play him at the 2, and move JJ to the 3. But when you do that, you move Marvin straight to the bench and reduce the number of minutes that Childress plays. Either way, bringing in Roy would slow the development of one or both of our lottery picks ( Marvin and Chill ). That's why BK passed on the kid, even if he does turn out to be a big time player. BK still believes that Marvin will turn out to be just as good, if not better. At least if you go after Foye, you could legitimately make a case about him playing the point, mainly because he can defend the position far better than Roye, and he has the body to absorb contact when he goes to the hole. But then again, most of you guys don't believe anything, until you see some "stats". So I'll use Ex's favorite site . . 82games.com: Foye: http://www.82games.com/0607/06MIN4C.HTM Roy: http://www.82games.com/0607/06POR4C.HTM But heck, I knew this ish even before looking it up . . because I WATCH THE LEAGUE, not just stats or box scores . . or highlight clips of a player on SportsCenter. I'm not just a die hard Hawks fan, I'm a die hard NBA fan. I watch everybody any chance I get, because I love NBA basketball. Brandon Roy may become an all-star . . but he'd never reach his potential playing the point. And frankly, Minnesota is probably slowing Foye's potential as a great player, by playing him at the point. But right now, Foye at the point for Minny, is what is best for the team. So if you wanted a PG, Foye is the choice, and the most likely to gain a starting spot for the Hawks. On the other hand, I could easily see Roy coming off the bench here, because we couldn't bench Marvin in favor of playing Roy at the 2. Roy would get time, but he wouldn't play 35 minutes a game here, like he is in Portland. He might see 20 - 25 minutes a game. And if that happened, he wouldn't be the Rookie of the Year here. You guys need to start thinking about things at all angles, and not just assume that a player playing great somewhere else, could play just as good here. If the situation here isn't similar to where he came from, the results wouldn't be the same. As far as Shelden goes, he's the perfect example of what could happen to Roy here. His talents could be suppressed simply because he has a better player in front of him taking minutes away from him ( which would be JJ ). Put Shelden in a situation in which he could instantly be a starter, and his numbers and level of play would greatly improve. I mean, even when he was the starter back in November, he played pretty good basketball, and got recognized for it as a top 5 rookie. Shelden just needs to work harder in the offseason, to get back into the rotation. Right now, he seems destined to be a decent backup PF to bring off the bench for us, if Smoove keeps playing at a high level at PF.

Maybe . . but I doubt it. Curry was a scorer, Chandler was a defender. I don't think each of them could co-exist with one another. And because the Chicago guards dominate the ball so much, I can't see both of them emerging into the players that they've become. Chandler DEFINITELY benefits from playing with Chris Paul. Paul probably gets him 2 - 3 easy baskets a night. Look for the battle between he and ZaZa to be very interesting. ZaZa is a crafty scorer that uses his body and position to get to the hoop, even if he barely gets off the ground. Chandler is trying to develop somewhat of a post game, with a jump-hook and decent pivot moves on the block. But it's when they get ZaZa in the pick and roll, that Chandler will probably get his points.

Not to . . . but once again, Brandon Roy cannot play PG for extended minutes on the NBA level. If you watch Brandon play, you would know that. He gets his assists the same way Vince Carter gets his assists, by passing to wide open shooters after a team tries to double team him. Surely you wouldn't suggest that Vince play PG for the Nets, if Kidd or Williams happened to get hurt, just because Vince averages 4.5 assists/gm? I've watched about 10 Portland games this year . . 6 with Brandon playing. Brandon has pretty good court vision and can find people in a half court set when a team tries to double team him. When he drives, he almost always shoots, but he has shown the ability to dump a pass off to a center or PF, if the defense converges on him. He's like a poor man's version of Jalen Rose right now, although Jalen had a little better court vision and could direct a team from the PG position. Offensively, he reminds me a lot of Jalen, when Jalen was starting to emerge as a good player in this league. But a PG is supposed to control the tempo of the game and run an offense. Brandon can't do that. That's why Portland plays Jack and Sergio, and even Dickau at the point. And Brandon can't even begin to defend at the PG position. He'd have the same problem that JJ had defending PGs last season. So if you want to cry about us passing on a player, don't cry about passing on Roy, cry about passing on Randy Foye. He's the guy that is now showing the ability that he can adjust his game to a PG mindset, while also showing the ability to guard PGs adequately. He and my boy Trenton Hassell did a pretty good job defending Gilbert Arenas Sunday night. Foye has just about rendered Mike James obsolete in Minny . . which makes Kevin McHale the worst GM in the league. Nobody even thought about giving Mike James a significant amount of money, not even BK. But McHale pretty much gave James 25 million for the next 4 years without even blinking. At least BK can use the excuse that Speedy is hurt. James is healthy, and got his spot taken by a rookie SG. But even Foye isn't a better PG right now, than the current PGs we have on the roster. Potentially though, he could be better at that position . . in about 2 years. LOL . . people talk about us paying out 12 million next year to 3 backup PGs. McHale will pay out almost 17.6 million to two guys who don't even see playing time ( Marko Jaric and Troy Hudson ), and to Mike James, who got benched in favor of Foye. To make it worse, Jaric, Hudson, and James are ALL under contract through 2010 ( if they aren't bought out before then ), in which the 3 could be making a combined 20 MILLION. If KG gives up that 22 million he's due in Minny next year, takes a lot less money, and tries to go somewhere else just to win a title, that Minnesota franchise is pretty much done for the next 5 - 7 years, unless Foye turns into Dwyane Wade, and McCants turns into Ray Allen. There are so many situations around the league that are FAR WORSE than what we have here. A lot of teams are/will be stuck in limbo. We're steadily on the way up, with an unlimited ceiling for the next 2 - 4 years.

That number is in direct correlation to Lue being hurt and Salim not being able to hit the side of the barn. People on this board just don't realize how Lue's injury has impacted this offense. Lue was definitely on pace to knock down close to 100 threes this year. With JJ commanding all of those double teams, it was Lue that was finidng himself wide open back in November. That's why Lue was scoring so much and the Hawks offense was looking so good. Then there's the Salim situation. I wish that Salim would just adjust his game, and take that open 20 footer or even get to the hole and see if he can draw a foul, instead of taking those rushed 24 footers after dribbling one time, that he always love to take. He's a hardheaded basketball player though, and that's why he's riding the pine with splinters in his butt these days. AJ isn't the guy you want jacking up a lot of threes. Lue is the guy you want shooting. Everybody keeps saying to draft a big man or a PG in this draft, and I'm not against that at all. But don't be surprised if the Hawks draft a 6-5 . . 6-6 G/F shooter to replace Salim or Ivey on the bench. Or at the very least, sign one of those guys as a cheap free agent.

One more thing. Woody gets crucified on this site about his lack of an offense and the fact that the Hawks don't run a lot. 2 questions to that: 1) How many good running teams are there in the league, that doesn't have a good PG making the decisions on the break? 2) How many teams rely on their SFs and PFs to lead fast breaks? I mean, that's basically what you guys are asking Woody to do. Have someone like Smoove or Childress lead the fast break and make the right decision. Personally, I cringe everytime Smoove pushes the ball up the floor. I don't mind him running it into the frontcourt. But I don't want him making decisions on the fast break. He should be the finisher, not the distributor. Speedy is more like Turtley these days. He can't run for extended minutes. Lue is hurt. Salim could run the break, but do you want that guy making the decisions on the break? LOL . . even that good pass he made to Marvin in the Spurs game, he acutally took 3 steps before Marvin got the ball. The refs didn't call it though. Ivey? I guess he should run the break . . lol. JJ? JJ could do it, but he's better off spotting up for a 3, than actually making the decision to take the ball all the way to the hole. So basically, Woody has to work with what he has. He'll let the kids run in spurts, which is all they should be doing right now. AJ isn't a guy known to push tempo, so don't expect us to run with him either. Woody isn't perfect, but he's probably had to do more with his personnel, than any other coach in the league.

With that shoulder injury of his, the Hawks should "test" it. Bang him around a little when he does drive to the hole. But I would really make an effort NOT to double Nash. Make him be the scorer tonight. But most coaches can't take the fact that he gets lay-ups a lot, so they try to take the ball out of his hands. I say, take away everybody else, and see if Nash and Amare can beat us by themselves. Tonight should be a good game. I don't know if we'll win our not, but I'd be shocked to see a blowout either way. Like most Hawk games, it'll go down to the wire.

Quote: I will admit to being 1 of the Woody bashers on this site. Something hit me as I was reading a post about Marvin maturing as a player and developing into a star. Why do we not give coaches the same developement period? Just want to hear what u guys think. The question you should be asking is . . . "why not give the coaches CREDIT for developing these players?" A lot of people on this board think that Josh's transformation has everything to do with his change in mindset as a player, rather than the COACHES actually changing his mindset as an offensive player. The same goes for Marvin and Childress. It's actually the coaches putting these young players in position to become better players. These coaches are constantly challenging these young players to raise their level of play. I like what Woody said about Smoove after the Chicago loss. (( paraphrasing )) "We have to get back on working on Josh ( Smith ). We don't want to take the jumpshot away from him, but we also want him to drive the ball more and get easier looks at the basket." That's straight from the coaches mouth. That same coach that 85% of the posters despise around here. Yet, those same people will give all of the credit to the transformation of Smoove, to Smoove only. Saying that Woody and the staff had a lot to do with Smoove's transformation as a player, would be a slap in the face to everything they believe about Woody. Things the coaches have done with the kids since all of them have been able to play together this year: Smoove: (1) Move him almost permanately to the 4 spot, to create possible offensive mismatches against bigger and slower 4's. That move to the 4 spot has also increased the number of rebounds the kid can grab, especially on the defensive end. He's even played the 5 on a few occasions when both ZaZa and Ren are having "difficulty". Smoove has grabbed double figure rebounds in 10 of his last 16 games. When he reaches that double figure number, we're 7 - 3 in those games. (2) Stressed upon him to not settle for every open look he has from 18 feet on out. They're telling him to take it to the basket and possibly draw fouls. He's gone to the line 70 times this month . . 15 more than he went to the line back in November. (3) Worked on his post up offense. He's developing a little jump hook, especially when matcehd up against players his size or smaller. His post game still needs a lot of work, but the coaches are doing just that . . working on it with him. Marvin: (1) Encouraging him to spot up somewhere around the 18 - 21 foot range, so that he can receive a pass and immeadiately shoot the open jumper without rushing the shot. If you remember last year, Marvin would come in the game, and take at least one 3-pointer to try to develop some range on his shot. Since Smoove's return on Jan 12, Marvin has taken a total of 5 threes. He's concentrating on developing his mid-range jumper when he does get that open look almost exclusively. (2) When the jumper isn't falling, they're telling him to ATTACK ! Although he needs to become a better finisher when he does get to the hole, it's evident that he has the ability to get to the basket and cause problems for the opponent. And he probably needs to attack more than he already does. (3) When matched up against a smaller player, he's posting up. That's a call that usually comes from the sideline. Some teams think they can get away with playing their 2-guard on Marvin, while letting their bigger SF guard JJ. When that happens, Marvin usually has a play ran for him where he posts up the smaller man. Sometimes he scores. A lot of times, he draws a foul and gets to the line. Childress: (1) Enabling him to impact the game in a variety of ways by playing him at three positions PG, SG, SF. As a PG, he concentrates more at playing defense and possibly posting up the smaller PG. Like Marvin, the call for a Chill post up usually comes from Woody. As a SG, he's usually open for that 18 - 22 foot shot that he knocks down so much, and usually draws the assignment to guard the other team's best 2 or 3 on the floor at the time.. As a SF, he really becomes very active around the basket, almost Tayshawn Prince-like, while doing all those other things. (2) Because of his ability to play 3 positions, and because of our PG injury situation, his minutes have increased. Out of the 3 kids, Childress has been playing the most minutes since Jan. 12. While people criticize everything about the organization, I love the way Woody and the coaches have persevered through everything, and not quit on these kids. They work with what they have, and try to make the best of it. Few people will give them credit for that, but the ASG definitely notices the hard work that Woody and his staff puts in on a nightly basis. That's one of the reasons why they're not quick to do what most of the fans say, and get rid of Woody.

Making the playoffs means that this team will have to win at least 37 or 38 games. That means that we'd have to finish the season with about an 18 - 11 record. If this team finishes that strong to end the year, and gets in the playoffs . . AND . . if the current ownership group is still in place, BK and Woody aren't going anywhere. The key to our upcoming run, may be how we play against the Wizards and Heat. We still have 3 games coming up with each of them, with 3 of those games coming in the first week in March. Sweep the Wiz and the Heat, and we have a damn good shot at this. Get swept by the Wiz, and we'll have to really take care of business against the teams on our level. I'll take a 2 - 1 record over the Wiz the rest of the way, but a sweep against the Heat. 4 - 2 at the very least.

He got ticked off because SA couldn't pull away from us. Teams still act like we're this squad that everyone is supposed to run right over. Like we have no talent here. Then they acutally get in the game, and get into a dogfight, and wonder what happened when the game is over. I stopped back in January trying to predict wins and losses for this team. I truly don't know what team will show up. I have noticed that we usually don't play well against physical teams. The way this team plays, they could lose by 15 Sunday against Phoenix, but go to Dallas and beat them by 6. That's why I watch the Hawks and take everything one game at a time.

I use that date, because that's the day that Smoove came back from injury, and the team started playing better. Here are some stats of note since that day: - As a team, we're 12 - 10 overall - When JJ scores 25 points or less, we're 3 - 6 . . when he goes for 30 or more points we're 7 - 1 - When Smoove scores 21 points or more, we're 5 - 1 - When Marvin scores 12 points or less, we're 9 - 4 - When JJ, Smoove, Marvin and Childress score a combined 70 or more points, we're 7 - 2. Not to defeat the purpose of the thread, but I think Marvin having a good game points wise, isn't the issue. I think Marvin needs to just come up big when asked to, even if he's struggling with his shot. That could either be on the offensive or defensive ends of the floor. Fact is . . we usually don't win, unless JJ is playing at all-star level, no matter how everyone else is playing. He really has to look to score 30 every night, until the rest of this team can provide him and the team with additional scoring help. That help may come in the form of Lue or AJ. But as Bus said, it can also come in the form of Marvin upping his game to that 17 - 20 per night level. Until that time comes, JJ needs to take good shots, and shoot often. I think Walter, about a few weeks ago, made the correlation that Smoove and Marvin hardly ever play a good game together. And that's true for the most part. Fortunately, Childress usually steps up his game, whenever Marvin or Smoove are struggling. But when all 4 guys ( JJ, Smoove, Chill, and Marvin ) are playing well, this team is tough to beat . . even without a PG or a C. One thing about this team is this . . players need to be willing to defer to the other guy, if he's not necessarily playing well . . unless his name is JJ. I say that, because JJ is the one guy on this team that can start a game 1 - 5 . . 2 - 8 . . but hit his next 5 or 6 shots in a row. No one else on this team can do that. So if Smoove starts a game out 2 - 9, like in the San Antonio game, I want to see him defer more to others and try to get them easy looks, instead of forcing bad shots that he can't make. Same goes for Marvin and Chill. Only JJ should have the green light on this team.

Quote: Levenson has told me explicitly that BK is not handicapped by the situation - he's free to make any deal. Knowing that - this is what he get? I know we don't know exactly who was available to Billy, and what price, but come on! This move wreaks of appeasment on all fronts - but it's actually much worse. We just lost cap space for another PG - an average distributor at best - who fits in nicely with our other bench-worthy ones. I don't understand any of you who think this was a good move - that's letting management off the hook, when they don't deserve it. But we didn't lose cap space. We obtained a contract that can be tossed in to make the numbers work. LOL . . you guys act like AJ is making 6 million or so. He's not even making 3 million. AJ becomes the type of contract that you can add in a deal, with players like a ZaZa, Lue, and Lorenzen, to make a move. All have contracts that expire next year. And that's an asset a team can use, to get a good, but disgruntled player. Or maybe that team wants to go in another direction, and is willing to trade a good player, obtain cap space for the summer of 2008, and rebuild the team from there. Gotta look at the situation from all angles.

Jerry . . I read some of your post over the last few days. You made some good points as well. The problem with most fans, is that they make decisions based on emotion. When you make decisions because of emotion, it'll almost always be the wrong one. Even in life, you can't make too many decision based on sheer emotion. Situation . . buy that new 52" Plasma TV . . or get that new Washer/Dryer that your wife has been begging you to get. Emotion: You really LOVE THAT TV so you buy the TV, and say forget what the wifey wants. I'll get it for her later. Result: You cause a serious argument to the point that she constantly hangs that TV over your head as the reason why you don't care about her feelings. You think things out. Weight the situation. Then make your decision. - you don't give a 1st round pick for a bum like Ridnour who got his spot taken by a perennial backup PG that can't shoot like Earl Watson. Somebody a few nights ago mentioned how "great" Ridnour was playing against Memphis. ( 15 pts . . 12 assists . . 5 steals ) That's a damn impressive game. Then you look at what Speedy did against Memphis back in December ( 19 pts . . 11 assists . . 3 steals ). You can say that both of these guys had one of their top 5 best games of the year against Memphis. But overall, both guys have been lackluster. So which is it? Is Luke and Speedy great PGs . . or are they just great PGs against Memphis? - you don't trade for an aging PG like Mike Bibby and give up major assets to our team, when he's having the worst year shooting wise of his career, and has never been a "table-setter" type PG. This isn't 2001, when he was knocking down big shots like a Sam Cassell. - you don't give Portland a 1st round pick or one of our young forwards, for one of their mediocre centers. If they were any good, Portland would be much better than what they are. Some Squawkers are sane. Most are irrational and impatient. It's important for this franchise to make the RIGHT move when they trade off one of these kids, instead of making a move just to fill a position with a mediocre player. You sign mediocre talent in free agency. You trade for big time talent, if you're trading off one or more of the kids.

Quote: This trade for AJ has turned me against BK. I have been for him up until this point, but this trade makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL! Geez. I am about to cry. -The trade doesn't get us into the playoffs -We lose our 2nd round pick -We lose $2.5 million against the cap because AJ's contract doesn't expire. -Speedy is still in town. BK has about 59 minutes to make another trade and rectify this. WTF is he thinking? BK said last night that whatever deal he made, had to make sense. Trading a 1st round pick for a guy like Ridnour, doesn't make sense . . especially in this very "deep" draft. So unless Seattle was willing just to dump Ridnour for garbage, you don't do that deal. Cleveland needs a PG, but you don't see them going after Ridnour either. That shows you what his true value is around the league. Now, to address your points: - The trade doesn't get us into the playoffs. Of course it doesn't . . unless Lue and Speedy can get a little more healthy. Squawkers need to start looking at our PG issue, in a different light. NO, we don't have that star or floor leader at PG here. But what we do have now, are 4 guys who bring very different things to the table. * Claxton - defensive specialist * Lue - offensive specialist * Johnson - steady all-around PG that can score and play D * Childress - change of pace, tall scoring PG that can create matchup problems on the offensive end Until we actually get a guy here who can man the point for 30 minutes a game, and play both offense and defense, the PG situation here will be a 4-headed monster. Now, it's up to Woody to somehow make that work. AJ will give Woody a chance to play Speedy whenever he needs him, instead of forcing him to play extended minutes . . something he obviously can't do right now. When Lue comes back, that'll give him another option to put at the PG. I could see a situation in which AJ, Speedy, and Lue split about 40 minutes a game at the PG, while Chill will play the other 8 minutes. LOL . . it's far from perfect, but it's better than giving those 8 minutes at the beginning of games to Ivey. - We lose our 2nd round pick. And that isn't a big deal at all. AJ right now has much more value than a 2nd round pick, and I'll tell you why in the next point. But most teams aren't going to find an impact player, or even a decent player with a 2nd round pick. And the Hawks don't need any more "project" type picks. They need solid guys who can play. And veteran players are usually the way to go. I'd part with a 2nd round pick every year, if it would bring me a quality veteran to play alongside these kids. - We lose 2.5 million against the cap, because AJ's contract doesn't expire. And that's a GOOD THING. And here's exactly why AJ is much more valuable to us, than that 2nd round pick. He's the type of contract we can use in a trade, to possibly get that big upgrade at Center or at PG here. People see that 2.5 million, and think that it's a waste. I see that 2.5 million, as a possible throw-in, to get some disgruntled veteran player who has worn out his welcome with his old team. Bumpy, up until now, we'd have to trade Marvin or Childress, along with guys like Lue, ZaZa, etc, to make a deal with some team willing to unload one of their better players. Now, we can use AJ in any filler deal, to get us that player, without maybe giving up Chill or Marvin. That extra 2.5 or so million is an asset, not a liability. That extra money isn't going to prohibit us from signing any new talent. It may actually help us trade for it during the summer. The fact that AJ will be in his last year of his contract NEXT YEAR, is the asset. - Speedy is still in town. And that's not a bad thing either. Why is it that JJ, Smoove, Chill, Lue, and Marvin all get a pass when they were injured. But when Speedy is injured, people act like he's going to play like that his entire career here? I've seen Speedy play a lot throughout his career, and the guy is just not right. He's hurting. If the Hawks were completely out of it, they'd probably shut him down for the year. But he wants to play and contribute any way he can. Same goes for Lue. It's just bad luck on our part that both of these guys are hurting at the same time. But when healthy, both of these guys can be assets to this team. But we may not see the full potential this year, which drives the fans crazy.

LOL . . now the board is wanting Beno? You guys are joking right? What makes any of you think that Beno is better than AJ? I mean, the Spurs brought in JACQUE VAUGHN to take his spot. Let me say that again . . JACQUE VAUGHN. And why? Beacuse Beno is GARBAGE as well. And he can't play a lick of defense. And I guess people forgot how Beno completely melted down in the playoffs last year. So ask yourselves this Squawkers. How does a proven non-scoring PG like JACQUE VAUGHN get 23 minutes last night and Beno gets 1 whole minute of PT, when it was obvious that Tony Parker was hurting. If Beno is an adequate replacement or an upgrade over anything we have here ( even Ivey ), why can't that man get more PT than friggin JACQUE VAUGHN? Some of you guys should be on Comedy Central. I think Lascar and the others are right. Some of you just while like spoiled teenagers about EVERYTHING, just because the organization doesn't do what YOU want them to do. LOL . . if it were up to some of you guys, Luke Ridnhour and Beno Udrih would be our new PGs.

Quote: There are plenty of teams that would move before us namely NOK, Memphis and Sacramento Actually, don't be surprised to see the Sonics move to Vegas . . if they don't move to OK City after the Hornets go back to N.O. next season.

Having said that, I wouldn't be against bringing Luke here. But it would be a deal like Salim + 2nd round pick for Luke. That's the max I'd do for a PG like that. Luke is essentially Tyronn Lue, with better passing skills. If you interchange he and Speedy at the PG, that would be a good contrast to bring in and out of a game. Luke could play when we have part of our 2nd unit in, and try to up the tempo a bit. Speedy would start and finish games, to make sure we're sound on defense and get possible stops at the end. Luke is by far having his best shooting year of his career this year. Speedy is by far having his worst shooting career this year. But when you look at both of these PGs, they both are more likely to shoot in the low 40% range, and get you around 5 - 6 assists a game. So what is more likely to happen? Luke becoming a better defender . . or Speedy increasing his FG% to where it should be? Diesel said this a few weeks back, and I'll reinterate it. Once Speedy gets back to his old self, he's going to make everybody forget about needing a PG here . . at least a starting PG. We'll still need a quality backup, but Speedy will be entrenched as our starter. Prediction: In the 2nd half of this season, Speedy will shoot between 43 - 45% FG and average around 6 assists or more. By the way, you can tell that a player isn't right, by looking at something like FT%. Good FT shooters just don't all of a sudden forget how to shoot FTs. Coming into this season, Speedy was close to a 78% FT shooter. This season, he's shooting 55% FT. When I see something like that, that lets me know that a guy isn't quite right. When he does get right, you'll see all of his numbers rise, and the Hawks will be a better team because of it.

Quote: He avr. the same amount of points a game as Tyrone Lue even though Lue plays less minutes. He only avr. .5 more assist a game than Speedy and Speedy plays less minutes. Thats not an upgrade worth giving up a 1st round pick in a deep draft in my book. I mean Speedy has been playing hurt and still gets as many assist as Luke and Speedy at least can defend. Luke couldnt defend 50% of the people who post on this board and Im being very serious about that. He doesnt even make an effort. Some of you guys mention him in the same breath with Nash or a young Nash in the making. I really doubt that. That whole Ridnhour thread is living proof why fans are just fans, and not GMs. LOL @ giving up a defensive PG like Speedy AND a freakin 1st round pick . . for a guy who can't even get the bulk of the minutes over Earl friggin Watson. If anything, it proves that Luke isn't a leader at the PG position, if he lets Earl take his spot like that. Earl plays less minutes, but averages more assists than Luke. Yet, Luke is supposed to be the "answer" here? LOL. LOL @ Luke being a "poor man's Steve Nash". Please. Luke is like a "poor man's Jason Williams" ( the White Chocolate version ).

People also forget how many shots JJ has hit with under 20 seconds . . only to see the Hawks being unable to defend on the other end and see the other team score. Then, they expect JJ to bail the team out a 2nd time, with like 2 - 3 seconds left on the clock. He's also had a good number of shots that have tied games at the end. I know Ex may do a game log, but let just give 2 examples of what I'm talking about, where a play JJ made should've won the game for us, even if he didn't hit the game winner: Seattle ( loss ) - JJ makes lay-up to put us up 1. Ray Allen makes lay-up with 2 seconds left to put them up 1. JJ missses a 3 pointer that he only has time to catch and shoot. LOL . . I guess that means that JJ isn't clutch, seeing that he missed the last 3. But his lay-up should've won the game in the first place. Denver ( win ) - A double-teamed JJ finds Shelden in the paint, who makes a good move to get fouled. Shelden hits the 2 FTs and we win the game. JJ didn't get an assist, but his ability to find Shelden essentially won the game for us. Without JJ, this team wouldn't have 8 wins right now . . if that.

Quote: Quote: What would be your reaction? That leaves a trade, which isn't a bad option considering there is NO WAY IN HELL we'll manage to keep all of our forward prospects. Might as well trade 1 or 2, commit to and (eventually) resign the others, and supplement our team with a mid-1st, the Jeremy Rich. guy I like, and other small pieces. Wrong again Walter. - Marvin isn't going ANYWHERE . . unless that trade nets us a very good PG or a very good C . . things that most teams aren't willing to part with. He's locked in through the 08 - 09 season at least. Even if he doesn't turn into a star, he'd be a very good complimentary piece to have on this team. The only way this guy gets traded, is if he regresses tremendously next season, or if a very good PG becomes disgruntled with his current team, and asks to be traded. Otherwise, Marvin is almost guaranteed to be a Hawk for the next 2.5 years. - Re-sign Smoove by the middle of next season . . possibly locking him up for a deal somewhere in the 55 - 60 million range, over the next 5 years. That would be my first offer to Smoove, to try to deter anybody from making an offer to him other than a MAX deal. And if someone does offer him the MAX, the Hawks should immeadiately match it, locking Smoove in for another 5 - 6 years. Unless Smoove wants to leave ATL and be "the man" by himself, and not the 2nd star on this team, he's not going anywhere either. - Chill could possibly be traded, but he's unlikely to get a big time RFA offer from a team needing a SF. Therefore, the Hawks could re-sign Chill for a deal somewhere around 6 - 7 million per year for 5 or 6 years . . or maybe less. It's like I told you guys at the beginning of the season, Chill, Marvin, and Smoove will ALL play at least 30 minutes a game. I don't see that changing in the near future, even if we do add a PG or if Speedy starts playing better. The versatility of these three guys allows each of them to be on the court doing different things at different times. - Shelden can be locked in through the 2010 season . . or he could be let go at the end of the 2008 season. If he becomes that solid player to back up our frontline people, it's unlikely the Hawks will deal him either. If not, the Hawks have the option to let him go as early as the summer of 2008. But it's a very good possibility that all four of these guys can stay with this team for at least the next 2.5 years. Now, when Marvin's next contract comes up in 2009, that may be a different story. We may have to deal him, or guys like Chill and Shelden, to make room for Marvin's big contract, depending on how good of a player Marvin is at that time. Then we'll have to deal with the BIG ISSUE . . re-signing JJ, if need be. By that time, this team may be willing to spend over the cap, if we have a team that is capable of contending for the East title. And I know people have already given up on Speedy, but they shouldn't. If Speedy can ever get healthy, you'll see a more efficient player playing the PG, and that won't even be an issue anymore. After the 2008 season, the guys that probably won't be here, are ZaZa, Lue, Ren, Ivey and Salim. By that time, we'll have Indy's draft pick from this year and the mid 2nd round pick . . and our 1st round pick from the 2008 draft to add to the team, plus maybe one or two FA big men to add to the team. So your 2008 - 09 Hawks could very well look like this: G - Speedy G - JJ F - Marvin F - Smoove C - Big man FA pick up ( Magloire? . . who will be overpaid by whomever obtains his services, unless he goes to a team on the cheap, and just wants to win a title. ) G/F - Childress ( 6th man . . and maybe even a candidate for 6th Man of the Year by this time. ) G - 2007 or 08 Draft pick ( Acie Law - Texas A&M? . . the more I watch this kid, the more I like him. And he's not afraid to take and make a big shot. He's not a pure PG though, but a very good scoring PG. ) G - FA pick up ( Chris Duhon? . . it'll be interesting to see what kind of money he commands in the summer of 2008. A team may be able to get him for around 4 million per. ) F - Shelden F - Solomon F/C - 07 or 08 Draft Pick ( Randolph Morris - Kentucky? . . depending on how high or low his stock rises or drops. If he comes out this year, he may be a mid-1st round pick. If he comes out in 2008, he may go higher. ) C - Free Agent pick up ( Kwame Brown? . . He'll probably get a 4 year deal at about 6 - 7 million per, in the summer of 2008. Maybe this will be the time to go after Kwame . . Or it'll be some stiff to fill the bench. ) With Chill being able to play 3 positions on this team, he may inherit the role as the backup PG, especially if Speedy plays like he's capable of playing. Another PG might be drafted in the coming years, to play spot minutes or be groomed to eventually take over for Speedy. Another big man will definitely be drafted. And we'll be able to get a few free agents in here, to possibly help the core guys out. The one thing we don't need to do, is trade one of our forwards, for a mediocre center or PG. We can just as easily find one in the draft or in free agency . . if BK wants one.

Quote: What would be your reaction? But we didn't, so this is a moot point. LOL . . why even start this thread?

Quote: Why do people fall into the trap of replying to post, such as TroyMcClure's last post. How does that deserve 25 replies. ? (In reference to: Tranfer of anger post by Troy McClure) There are several on this board who deserve to be ignored. Let's ignore these post. They are not worth the thought and time it takes to respond. Idiots attract other idiots. Please don't let this board be over run by these type of post. If we fall into the trap and respond to senseless post from people who obiviosly have issues it simple attracts more bad post. We attract what we think and portray. Good, quality post attract good, quality responses. Crappy post attract....well, alot more crap. (Ya' get what I'm sayin' ? I couldn't agree more coach. When I saw his initial post, and the way he worded things, I knew that he was just looking for some attention. If anything, Graymule is the Anti-Troy. The balance that this negative board needs at times. Keep doing your thing Gray. There are a lot of strong opinions on this board, and I guess we can't help ourselves to respond, no matter what the topic.

I purposely gave you a few days to see if you'd correct yourself in that whole Westidiot discussion the board had over the weekend. But you didn't. You came at me with a "learn to do REAL REASEARCH" blast, citing a supposed mistake I'd made about Westhead and talking about how Wikipedia isn't fact. http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....=&fpart=#195636 1) You should know by now that when I make an argument, whether if you or the board agrees with it or not, the things that I cite, especially when it comes to numbers, are FACTUAL. But everybody makes mistakes, and I'm not prone to making one every now and then. Which leads me to . . 2) You're actually the one who needs to do REAL RESEARCH!. LOL @ trying to call me out about my lack of research skills. You better look in the mirror playa. This is the link that you gave when you stated that Denver only gave up 114 ppg in 1991. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/1991.html Only one problem with that buddy. That 114 number was their DEFENSIVE RATING according to basketball-reference.com, not how many PPG that they gave up. But yet, you tried to pass that off as their ppg number, to make your "argument" about Westidiot better. LOL . . all you had to do is scroll down one more section on that page, to the Team and Opponents Statistics . . and you'd EASILY see that Denver gave up 130.8 ppg that season. And they let teams shoot well over 50% FG against them. I've told you before. If you want to cite a good NBA statistics website, use databasebasketball.com, not basketball-reference.com. The DBB site is much more thorough in their statistics and they give you a few more features that B-R doesn't. If you had, you wouldn't have made a careless mistake like that. I'm a detailed-oriented person . . almost to a fault. But that quality keeps me from making few mistakes, when it comes to citing things. But like I said, even I'm not error-free all the time either. http://databasebasketball.com/teams/teamye...EN&lg=n&yr=1990 You did get the ppg total ( 108 ) correct when talking about the 91 - 92 Nugget team. At least you paid attention to detail that time. And by the way, it was the 90 - 91 . . and 91 - 92 seasons that Westhead coached the Nuggets . . in case that wasn't clearly stated in that other thread. You know why they were a better defensive team in 91 - 92? Because Denver actually added some people who could play defense ( Mutumbo and Mark Macon ), and Westidiot actually started to abandon that idiotic philosophy of chucking and ducking. He actually ran offense through Dikembe at times. It's amazing, but Dik actually had his most field goal and free throw attempts in a season under Westhead . . the total opposite of his philosophy. They went from a team that saw Michael Adams alone take damn near 570 threes by himself, to a team that took just a little over 400 threes total. In other words, Westidiot let go of that philosophy, and actually tried to do like a regular coach. The Nuggets let go of their top 3 scorers from the previous season . . Adams - 26 ppg, Woolridge - 25 ppg, and Walter Davis - 19 ppg . . and actually got a little better as a team. So you're 1/2 right Diesel. With better personnel, he did make a little improvement. But he had to scrap his idiotic run and gun system, and get rid of non-defense playing players to do it. Next time, just make sure you've dotted all of your "i's" and crossed all of your "t's", before you call somebody out about their "lack of research". ( exhale ) . . that feels better.

Quote: Pat Riley did absolutely nothing that Westhead didn't do. Pat Riley just came in and stroked his players egos... That's it. The Lakers were not a great defensive team ever... You see the fingerprint of Westhead all over showtime.. .it's undeniable. If you want to know how Riley really coached, look at what he did when he left LAL. Classic NY Knick basketball. Get some playground bullies like Mason and Oakley.. let them intimidate everybody.. Go to Miami... Play the same style of basketball.. that the previous coach played.. only bring in Lonzo... However, for as successful as Showtime was, Riley has never tried to do it anywhere else... Thats because he's not the inventor of Showtime. LOL @ Diesel. It's a reason why Paul Westidiot hasn't been able to secure another NBA coaching gig after the Denver debacle. That style is highly flawed and just doesn't work on the NBA level . . unless you do have a superstar PG who can find people anywhere on the court and have guys who can conistently knock down open jumpers. You better give Magic most of the credit for "Showtime", than Westidiot. He was the catalyst for the style of play that the Lakers played. Without him, there is no "Showtime". But even that Laker team didn't just run and gun all over the place. That Laker team got a ton of easy shots mainly because they had an unstoppable force in the middle with Kareem, and they had a young PG who had an uncanny knack for running controlled fast breaks and almost always turned into points. The Lakers back in their 79 - 80 Championship year, only made 20 threes the entire year. Kareem skyhooked people to death. Jamaal Wilkes had the awkward, but money mid-range jumper. Norm Nixon would penetrate at will and score, or dish in the halfcourt offense. And Magic would do the same and dazzle people on the fast break. In 78 - 79 . . before Westidiot and Magic, the Lakers averaged 113 ppg and shot 52% FG In 79 - 80 . . when Westidiot and Magic came abord, the Lakers averaged 115 ppg and shot 53% FG. And Magic upped his game as the season wore on that year, becoming damn near a dominant force by the time the playoffs came around. It wasn't Westidiot that made the Lakers great, it was Magic and Kareem that made them great, along with the other great players they already had there. Magic was just the missing piece. Magic replaced a nice scoring SF in Adreian Dantley, who averaged 17 ppg and shot over 50% FG in 78 - 79. Magic, who was a PG with SF size, averaged 18 ppg, almost 8 rebs, and a little over 7 assists. That team became more efficient with Magic. And it had very little to do with Westidiot. LOL . . I tell you exactly what would happen if Westhead became the coach of the Hawks. He'd immeadiately insert Salim Stoudamire into the starting lineup, because he's are the type of player that he prefers to play in his system. Actually, that may not be as bad as it seems, because I wouldn't be against Salim starting games ( but playing only in a role like Ivey's, and only keeping him in if he were scoring ). But Westidiot would give Salim free reign to take any open shot he gets, which would be suicide for this team. I could easily see a situation where JJ would still be the go-to-guy, but Salim would be 2nd in FG attempts. Smoove, Chill, and Marvin would still get theirs. But Salim would definitely be a focal point in Westidiot's system. And how do I know that he'd love Salim? Because when he coached the Nuggets from 90 - 92, Michael Adams, a 5-10 PG who was really a shooting guard, took 564 three pointers that year. I'm not quite sure, but I think that's still an NBA record for 3 point attempts. That Nugget team averaged almost 120 a game. But they gave up 130 a game . . an NBA record. You'd see no Royal Ivey in the game if Westhead were here. It'll be Salim at the point, with JJ, Chill, Marvin, and probably Smoove playing the 5. Speedy would be a defensive specialist, who'd have the green light to shoot anytime he wanted, which would also be suicide for this team. ZaZa would come off the bench, and have the green light at all times as well, another suicidal move. Lue would see time too. Solomon Jones would probably play before Shelden, because Solomon can run. But Westidiot would LOVE Salim. He's a Michael Adams clone, if I ever saw one. The emphasis would be to run as much as possible, and not worry about playing great defense. We'd be a much more entertaining team to watch, but an absolutely HORRIBLE defensive team. Imagine how many times Smoove would be out of position to play defense in that system. Even with his great closing speed, you can't ask him to run the floor on offense, then run right back on defense to erase mistakes. Diesel, you say that Westidiot's system "tires his opponent out". History says that his system only gives his opponent easy looks at the basket. And if you're getting easy looks, a team could play their 9th - 12th guys, and still not lose much in the scoring department. LOL . . it's a nightmare that I never want to see happen here. I'm all for this team running . . . in CONTROLLED spurts . . and ONLY if we forced a turnover or got a long rebound. But to let these guys run, just for the sake of running, would be detrimental to this team. KB is right. If people want this team to run . . let their role model be the Sonics teams of the mid 90s. But even that team had a pretty good low post scorer ( Kemp ) and a damn good defensive PG ( Payton ) who controlled everything for them. This team is probably a better defensive ballclub ( when healthy ), than a running ballclub ( when healthy ). If we had a defensive center here, who just rebounded and played good defense, we'd probably be a top 10 defensive team right now . . even if that center didn't provide any offense. The vast majority of the time, the Hawks win games because they play good defense, not because they're great offensively. When they don't play good defense, it almost doesn't matter how we play offensively. Shoot, we've lost plenty of games in the past 2 years, in which we've shot well over 50% FG.