TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: You also have to wonder if this is the first time in Marvin's life that basketball is difficult. That is, this maybe the first time that he has had problems scoring. Once he figures out how to make it work, he's going to be a very good player. Exactly. You see this go on in other sports all the time. How about that hot shot minor league prospect, who tears the cover off the baseball in AA ball . . . but can't hit a good slider to save his life in MLB. Then, after a year or so, he gets comfortable, and regains his stroke. LOL . . and who made our schedule for the next 6 games? I didn't notice this at first, but we have 3 consecutive back-to-back games coming up. I've never seen that before in an NBA schedule.

Quote: I watched part of the Miami v. someone (I can't remember right now) the other night. The announcers brought up that Jason Kapono who is now in his third year has really improved. He was shooting over 50% on his threes over the past few weeks. The consensus is that he just needed to get some confidence. What does that have to do with Marvin? Well if you watch him you can tell he has no confidence in his shot. If Jason Kapono can become an impact player on offense, then Marvin certainly can, we just need to support the guy. I like the way Marvin is playing. He's taking some shots, even though they aren't falling. He is playing solid D and getting boards. His passing is very good. In all, players mature at different rates depending on their personalities. Marvin, IMO, is a guy that is a little slower at developing than some. He doesn't have the chip on his shoulder like Smoove did/does. MW doesn't have the college success of Childress. What he does have are a group of teammates that obviously want him to succeed *see how many high fives and pats he got last night*. I still believe in the guy and will give him another season and a half to show that he can be an offensive force. I think he is a team force right now. You guys are kind of missing the boat on what is Marvin's problem. It's not that he doesn't have any confidence in his shot. People that lack confidence in their shot, don't shoot at all. His problem is the same problem that Salim is going through. Both of those guys are rushing their shots, instead of taking them in a good rhythm. One of the hardest things to do in basketball, is shoot on the move. And it seems as if every shot that Marvin takes, is on the move. Smoove used to do the same thing, but he's settled down considerably when taking his jumper. He gets in a nice set position as the ball arrives. By the time he catches it, he's ready to let it fly in a good rhythm. That's all Marvin needs to do . . slow down before he catches the ball. Salim is the same way. Once both of those guys do that, you'll start seeing better shooting from them.

Quote: Most young players escalate their play during their third seasons. Childress and Smith are prime examples. Only the people that don't truly know basketball, don't know this. So many "star" players have shown signs of life at the end of their 2nd year. And by year 3, they're ready to "fulfill their destiny" as a ballplayer. My only concern about Marvin, is that the Hawks are trying to force-feed him into becoming one of the top 3 players on this team. I wouldn't be mad to see him go to the bench, but I still want him to play 30 minutes a game to get some much needed experience. But I love the fact that the rest of his game isn't suffering, just because his shot isn't falling right now. All ballplayers go through this at some point in their careers. You just have to fight through it and find your rhythm. When he does, he'll start being a highly efficient player.

flava, good observation about marvin. i just finished watching the tape of the game, and the only thing i see him doing wrong, is trying to force things. he's not letting the game come to him and he's rushing shots. smoove used to do the same thing. i'd still like for marvin to come off the bench, but other than his shot, he's playing decent b-ball. the problem with this board, is that they judge a guy from night to night, instead of long term. some people even didn't believe in jj.

@ Minny vs Char @ Char @ Chi @ Bos @ Orl vs Phi vs Orl vs G-St vs Tor @ NJ vs LAL @ NJ These next 13 games will shed some light on how the rest of this season may go. This is the easiest stretch in the Hawks schedule, so if they're going to make a move, it's going to be right here. And we have to make some type of move before that February road trip before the All-Star game. The end of February schedule is a killer, so this team needs to have their confidence at their highest, before going into those stretch of games. A few scenarios: Hawks go winless: An 0 - 13 mark means that the season is over ( overall 12 - 36 record ). The tank crew will be out in full force, and it will be hard to dispute anything that they say. Oden, here we come . . hopefully. Hawks go 3 - 10: At 15 - 33 and 18 games under .500, it will be hard not to question if we need to move some players for the future, or "stay the course" and play out the season. Hawks go 5 - 8: A real possibility here, if this team misses their point guards tremendously. A 17 - 31 record would be the best record for the Hawks in 4 years. And it might still keep playoff hopes barely alive. But like I said, that end of Feb schedule is a killer. Hawks go 6 - 7: The season would be stable at this point, but at 18 - 30, we'd probably make up very little ground on the people ahead of us. And by this time, Shaq Diesel may be back in the mix. This is an acceptable outcome for these stretch of games, but it wouldn't bode well for playoff hopes. The talk of building "team chemistry" would be the focal point here. Hawks go 8 - 5 : Talk would be very positive on this board for the most part. And from a realistic standpoint, this is probably the best mark we can hope for from the Hawks. 20 - 28 would be our record here. If the competition ahead of us is still playing .500 basketball, you're talking about the Hawks being about 3 games out of that 8th spot. Hawks go 10 - 3: I don't see this happening unless Marvin or Salim really plays well during this stretch, along with JJ, Smoove, Chill and ZaZa. This would be almost the perfect storm for the Hawks, and put us right back in the conversation for playoff contention. At 22 - 26, this would be the Hawks best record in the first 48 games of the season . . since 1999. We could even afford to lose some of those games in the end of February, and not be out of the hunt. Hawks go undefeated: Total pipe dream that will only happen if everybody is playing perfect basketball. If it did, we're 25 - 23, and probably the #8 team in the East. And we would be a tough out for any team in the league, even the elite ones. People would have to retract a lot of comments made about the team, the coach, and the GM, if that happened. So these next 13 games should tell us a lot about this team.

Young star on the verge . . Emeka Okafor. Maybe the Bobcats are the team that pulls the trigger, and brings JO to Charlotte. Charlotte has a lot of decent young players, but no stars. But seeing the players that Indy picked up, they may opt for Adam Morrison . . lol.

Quote: i told the people over at RealGM's Indy board that their defense would go in the tank this year with Harrington. they told me he was a great defender becore he came here. i predicted their points allowed would go up by 5 a game the second they traded for Harrington. I'm sure that has come to fruition, although scoring D seems to be up somewhat league wide. O'Neal has to be the next shoe. this screams rebuilding to me. I agree. Don't be surprised if JO is dealt next. But if you deal JO, it has to be for a young player who is on the verge of becoming a borderline superstar. If they trade JO for expiring contracts . . lol. BK looks like a genius in that Hawks/Pacers trade now.

Quote: Quote: This will set up Indiana for a fall. ...play angry, with a chip on their shoulder, assuming either have any chips. We'll see. I expect a short-term "fall" until the All-star break none-the-less. It appears, however, that Indy could be "tanking" to some degree. They heard the words of JO. "If it ain't gonna get better (than mediocrity) somehow, then why am I here?" W LOL . . I'm glad you said that Walter. Now THAT'S how you tank a season. You get a bunch of decent, but non-impact players, just to get rid of a guy who is a PR nightmare in Indy ( Stephen Jackson ). If you're a Warriors fan, you have to be elated right now. You get 3 guys who could really excel in that system that Nellie is running out in G-State right now ( S-Jax, Al, Sarunas ). If you're an Indy fan, you have to be saying "uh oh". Murphy is a banger that doesn't play defense. Dunleavy sure in the heck doesn't play D and his jumper is off. Only Digou has a chance to really benefit from this trade . . but only if he starts. I look at Indy right now, and I don't see one guy outside of JO that can take over a game. Al and S-Jax showed that ability every once in a while. Now, they don't have it. Fall back Indy . . fall all the way back.

No they didn't Atlas. Most mocks had us taking Marvin or Bogut ( if Milwaukee didn't take Marvin #1 ), not Chris . . and definitely not Deron. Marvin and Bogut were the consensus #1 and #2 in just about every mock draft that year. Deron was never ahead of Chris an any mocks that I saw during that time. And there were serious questions about whether Paul was big enough to really excel on the pro level. But once Utah tipped their hand about loving Deron, Deron moved ahead of Chris on most boards. If Paul were 6 - 3, he'd probably been the consensus #1 pick that year. But because Paul is only Speedy Claxton size ( 5 - 11 . . 6 feet ), most "experts" thought that his size would limit the chance of him truly becoming a great player on the next level. To take Paul in the top 2, people would've have to truly believe that he was the 2nd coming of Isaiah Thomas. And most "scouts and GMs" didn't. They thought that he'd be good, but nothing like this in his first few years in the league. That's why Deron went before Paul. And that's why the Hawks didn't take Paul. In hindsight, they were probably mistaken, with Paul being even better than most people expected out of the gate. But the NBA love taking guys with "potential". And when you look at comparing Chris and Ray Felton, some people even thoguht Felton would be better on the next level. You know who Chris Paul was essentially? He was Vince Young. A guy who people knew had the talent, but still questioned everything about him, for whatever reason. But experts also thought Vince was, at the very least, a 2 - 3 year project type player for the Titans, much like Steve McNair was. Vince won the ROY when he got a chance to take over the QB spot, but you can't blame a team for taking Reggie Bush ahead of him. But on the flip side of that, Marvin Williams may very well be the Mario Williams of that draft. He's a player who was taken a few spots higher than what he should've been, and isn't seen as the impact player that Bush or Young would've been for a team coming right out the gate. Marvin was always seen as that 2 - 3 year "project" player that need development, before he blossomed into a potential star. But like the Texans, the Hawks probably passed on a player that could help them immeadiately, instead of a guy who could be the better player in the long run. Like Marvin with Chris and Deron, people love to compare Mario with Reggie and Vince. Fact is, that's unfair to Mario and Marvin, just because they were picked ahead of those guys. What Reggie and Vince do, has nothing to do with how Mario develops as a player. Sure, the Texans may regret in the short term for taking Mario. But the kid, in the long term, may turn into a very good player for them. But he also may not be the superstar players that Vince and Reggie may become. That's how I look at Marvin for us right now. Of course most Hawk fans would prefer Chris running the point for us right now. Even I would. But that's not Marvin's fault. And most Texans fans would definitely prefer Vince or Reggie, especially when you look at their offense. But that's not on Mario either. Eventually, Hawk fans are going to have to stop crying over not taking Paul. You play the hand that was dealt to you, and make the best of it. And you're going to have to trust all of those scouts and your GM that Marvin can turn into a good player in this league. Most importantly, you can't change the past. And if you dwell on something like that, it'll literally drive you crazy as a fan. One more thing. Even if Marvin doesn't reach "superstar" status, I'd settle for him being a good consistent type player for this team. If Marvin, in a year or two, can get his shooting % close to the 45% - 47% range, while averaging 14 - 16 ppg, I'd definitely take that from him. JJ is the star of this team, so it's not imperative that Marvin be that 2nd guy, especially if Smoove or Chill are more ready to be that 2nd guy. Who in their right mind wouldn't take this from the Hawks? JJ - 25 ppg . . 4 rebs . . 4 assists . . bonafide star Smoove - 16 ppg . . 8 rebs . . 4 assits . . 3 blks . . the "do it all guy". Chill ( 6th man ) - 15 ppg . . 6 rebs . . 3 assists . . over 50% FG Marvin - 14 ppg . . 5 rebs . . 3 assists . . 46% FG . . a good complimentary player to JJ. I know that's far from the impact that a #2 pick should have, but if those 4 guys can be the core of this team, the Hawks will definitely be more than OK in the future. Marvin is signed through 2009. He's not going anywhere anytime soon. The Hawks would be stupid to trade him for a need player with less talent. Once he finds his comfort zone as an offensive player, we'll see how good he can be. Right now, he's just an inconsistent young ballplayer. And Hawk fans have no choice but to live with that, until he breaks out of it. The questions people need to ask themselves now is these: What do you think is the ceiling for Marvin as a player? And if that's your ceiling, does that help or hurt the Hawks? Don't compare any other players when you ask yourselves these questions. Just focus on Marvin ALONE and ask yourselves these questions.

it's easy to tell the ages on this board. our young posters always take extreme positions which are irrational. fact is, bk would be idiotic to give away marvin after just 1.5 years of evaluation.

.... and we're still not at full strength yet. when speedy comes back, there's no telling how good this team will look.

this board makes of laugh every day. if some of you aren't firing the coach or the gm, you're trading off one of our top 7 players. fact is we need every one of these guys right now. this board constanty traded chill and smoove last year. now its marvin. don't you guys get it yet? young players are inconsistent. they need time to find their game. i agree that marvin should be benched, but trade him? lol. this kid will eventually turn the corner, just like chill and smoove did.

funny you guys talk about salim. i had a dream that we lost today's game 161 - 149 in 2ot. salim had 36.

not really. lo was a dang good big man go college. and bryant and oneal were hs kids.

interesting to see 6 teams that are almost sure locks for the playoffs, ranked below us in this list. it makes smoove that much more important. he can take away poss. on the def. end

first it was przybilla. then sene. then bynum. now oden. walter, we all know that we need a center, preferably a defensive one. even you were willing to settle for a role playing defender. now, you're obsessed with oden. when the titans showed some life, they couldn't just decide to tank because the playoffs seemed like a pipe dream and risk losing a chance at johnson. having the new titans taste what it is like to win, was more important. and the same goes for us.

oh i get now walter. you don't believe that jj changes our destiny. he's the hawks version of vince young. he's the guy that this franchise has to be built around. he's not the leader that vince is, but he has kind of superstar ability. but in your mind, it's impossible for a healthy hawks team to salvage the season under joe. and the titans didn't tank the season to get vince . if anything, the tank was on this year, when they traded mcnair. the players had other thoughts though.

vy made plays when it counted, which gave the entire team confidence. then pac man jones made plays. then travis henry. then other players made plays. it was a total team transformation. they won in so many ways, even with luck. vy gets the credit, but even he knows that it was all team.

.. and that journeyman pg also did the same thing for milwaukee and minnesota.

also....there have been so many examples in sports, in which bad to mediocre teams had to go through growing pains, before they achieved greatness. the "tank crowd" has obviously never played an organized sport before. losing brings on so many hardships to the psyche of a team and an organization. the clippers are a perfect example of how high draft picks guarantees you nothing in this league. it took a 2nd round journeyman pg with championship experience, to get them where are today.

it's not that the atlantic winner doesn't count, it's just that we're not competing against them for an 8th seed. the winner of the atl. gets at least a top 4 seed.

lol. titans start 0-5. fans talk about giving up so they can get tech wr calvin johnson, arguably the best wr since randy moss. titans win some improbable games and gain confidence. then they start to beat playoff caliber teams. in all they win 8 of last 11, but miss playoffs and the chance to take johnson. but now, the team and fan base are optimistic as ever about future. why? because you have to learn how to win first now, before becoming a champion later in life.

lol ex. philly fans despise daly. don't let those % fool you. daly might shoot 2 jumpers a game. and if he doesn't block your shot, he's a sub par defender.

Quote: Quit being a silly little straw-man maker. Why use "essentially" unless you aren't going to tell it straight. I'm suggesting telling these players no such thing. I'm telling them, "Play great, play hard, give it your best. We are making decisions that could negatively affect this season's prospects in hopes of acquiring you guys the important star level post presence talented wing-players and prospects like yourselves need and deserve. Too long have you been asked to play without a true and potentially dominant center. That is our error and we intend to rectify it.None of our long-term desires relating to you change. In fact, should we acquire this dynamic post player in the top 3 of this year's draft we will NOT have to attempt to acquire one in other ways which likely would have meant a trade of one of you. We are choosing this course in part to reinforce our commitment to you as a unit. That is precisely why we want you to play to your best ability individually and as a team, develop together, and proceed optimism. We cannot promise that the decisions we make in the short-term will make all or any of you very happy. We do not expect competitors to be happy about this. We do expect you to be professional and open minded to our direction. Address us with your concerns. Realize it is because of your potential as a unit, and yet your need for help in the post to reach contention, that we made the decision to (trade Lue for example)..."Did I say "essentially" anything in that. No. I said it. The "fatal flaw" in any other "theory" is the odds are even FAR worse. You play the odds or get played.W LOL @ this BS. You'd make a pretty good politician. Maybe you should run for Congress.LMAO @ "address us with your concerns".*****Chill - "dangit BK, I'm tired of busting my butt for 3 quarters, only for you to "give the signal" for me to start messing up at the end. This isn't cool at all."BK - "Chill . . chill. Understand that we're doing this, so that we can have a "shot" to get Oden. It may only be a 25% shot, but it's a shot that we need to take. And look at it this way. It'll make us better as a team, even if you guys aren't developing the type of chemistry with each other that you should right now. If we get Oden, we won't have to trade you or Marvin, to get a big man. We'll trade Shelden or ZaZa, to make sure you guys get to play more. Now get out of my office, and do your dang job."Chill - "yes sir." ( head down )*********Then, when the Hawks fail to get that #1 spot, but take Durant, Chill AND Smoove tell people "off the record" that they're tired of losing, and want to be traded from the Hawks . . . ala Al Harrington. They also say that they're definitely not signing extensinos when their contracts are up. Hawks panic, and trade both Smoove and Chill for veteran expiring contracts, seeing that they're not competitive right now.Then JJ demands to be traded, and the ish hits the fan. Reconstruction all over again.

It's no doubt that Oden was a force in the middle in that game . . at least in the first half.He was outstanding . . 16 points and 10 rebounds.2nd half, the Vols adjusted to him and held him to 8 points and 5 rebounds.UT is a trapping/running team that likes to shoot 3s. Their young post players don't usually put up great numbers anyway. But Oden's presence definitely made them more perimeter-oriented.Oden will definitely be able to defend on the next level. But from what I've seen of him this year. A guy with a big body can definitely limit what he does offensively, and on the boards.