TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: Paul Westhead isn't the only coach who likes to run. Marc Iavaroni is a runner as well and he knows the PHX system backwards and forwards. I would also look at Stan Van Gundy, a good coach and class guy who would take the job now. We need a new approach right now. LOL @ Westhead. My boy in college used to call him "Westidiot". If the decision is to can Woody, I wouldn't be against bringing in an Ivaroni or a Van Gundy. A lot of you guys wanted Rick Adleman. Even he may be able to get this team to the next level . . which is a borderline playoff level. But once again, we need our top 7 players healthy. Without that, we can't expect the full potential of this team to be maximized, no matter what coach we bring in here.

Diesel, teams have only been able to do this, because of the absence of Lue. When Lue was healthy, JJ would immeadiately look to him, and Lue would drain the jumper and punish that team for trying to double JJ. If Marvin doesn't have the confidence to either catch and shot the ball as soon as he gets it . . or immeaditely take it to the hole, then Chill should be out on the floor with JJ, to give him a high percentage option to go to. People need to get over the fact that Chill has an ugly shot, and truly see that this guy is a very efficient offensive player for this team. ZaZa does have offensive moves, but he'll turn it over 30% of the time when he touches it. He at least gets to the FT line at times. Fans just have to start realizing that we're not the type of team that can afford to have 2 of their top 7 players out of the lineup, and expect everything to be OK. Everybody has a role on this team. So when a person is out, you're not expecting a player who hasn't been in the league more than 2 years, to assume extra duty. This isn't necessarily directed at you, because I think you understand the situation we're in right now. But the youth of this team prohibits us from really persevering through these injuries. - If Lue is hurt, we just can't expect Salim to do the exact same things that Lue brought to the offense. - If Chill is hurt, Ivey or Bozeman can't do the things that he did for the team. - If Smoove is hurt, Shelden isn't ready to be the type of all-around efficient player that Smoove was. - If Speedy is hurt, Lue, Salim, Ivey, or Bozeman can't run the team, and more importantly, defend like he can . . although if Lue's offense is on, it'll make up for his lack of defense. - If Marvin is hurt, it takes away a major athletic player out of the lineup that we can't replace, which forces Smoove and Chill to make up for what Marvin brings to the table. - If ZaZa is hurt, we virtually have no offensive post game to go to. - and if JJ is hurt, we're screwed anyway, because no one on the team is capable of pumping in 20 - 30 points on a moments notice. Each of those 7 players are VITAL to the success of this team. Every other player on the squad is merely a complimentary player that should be getting spot minutes, with Shelden getting the majority of those minutes because of his rebounding and defensive abilities. This season has proved that if one of those 7 are out, that the rest of the team has problems picking up the slack. If two or more are out, we almost never win. It's as simple as that. I agree that Woody's time may be up. But he's not the #1 reason why this team loses. We lose because we desperately need ALL 7 of these guys in the lineup . . healthy.

Interesting. I personally think people make way too much of a big deal of Woody's substitution patterns. You can maybe beef about who should be starting, and who should be on the bench. But a lot of his substitution patters in the beginning of games, are pre-set . . . just like any other coach in the league. Each coach has its guys that they want to take in and out of a game at certain points. It's pretty much a given that, when this team was only missing Marvin, that Woody would first insert Lue for Claxton, then Chill for either Shelden or Smoove, depending which one was in foul trouble. I've even seen people on here complain about Woody taking out some of the starters toward the end of quarters. For those of us who know basketball, that type of move is obviously to protect your key guys from picking up that cheap foul at the end of quarters. Almost every team does this. The Hawks problem with their bench, is that we seem to either give up parts of leads, or have leads extend by a few points, when we take guys like JJ or Smoove out of the game toward the end of a quarter, when they have 2 fouls on them. But it is more important to keep your key guys in the game for most of the 2nd half, than it is to play them major minutes in the first. Once again, EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE does these type of substitutions. But it was the mistakes that our bench was making, that were causing problems. Now that we're short-handed somewhat, these problems really come to a head. Woody is either forced to (a) keep his main guys in the game hand and hope they don't get the cheap foul . . or (b) trust guys like Salim, Ivey, and Freije ( before he was dealt ), to at least maintain where we are on the scoreboard. If we had our full compliment of players, those guys wouldn't have that burden placed on them, if not in the game at all.

One more thing. We're either running the Pick and Roll, or the High Post offense, with ZaZa now at the top of the key, trying to find JJ off the screen, then letting him make the decision with the ball. When that offense was really effective back in November, it was Smoove receiving the ball at the top. He then was able to get the ball to JJ or Lue in the right spots for good looks at the basket. Smoove can force some passes at times, but overall, he is a very good passing forward which enabled us to do good things offensively. And before he got hurt, he was even starting to take the ball to the basket more. You can't lose a player like that, plus lose what he brings on the defensive end, and expect not to have a dropoff in offensive and defensive efficiency. It's incredible. Before Smoove's injury, the Hawks only had 2 games in which they failed to score 82 points or more. LOL . . the last 4 that Smoove has been out, we can't even reach the 82 point barrier. This team basically has no margin for error. IF and WHEN we get everybody healthy, this team will improve drastically. But we truly need ALL of our key cogs healthy, to make this thing work. So as long as we have key guys out, you have to expect this team to struggle mightily at times. We just have to hope that they can break out of this funk, and get everybody back healthy as soon as possible.

BDawg . . what you have to understand, is that the reason why the pick and roll isn't effective now, is because of (b) . . the Hawks not being able to knock down open jumpers. What teams are doing now, is completely smothering JJ when he comes off of that pick. That means all JJ has to do, is find the open man . . which is usually either Speedy or Marvin. And guess what? Neither of those guys are consistently knocking down open jumpers, or attacking the basket like they should, in order to make the possession offensively efficient. When we had Lue, teams couldn't afford to leave him, because Lue was absolutely killing teams that left him open. We've lost 11 out of the last 12. But in the last 7 games that Lue has been out, we've lost all of them. It just goes to show you how important guys who can knock down open shots are . . especially to this team. But if we were to go to a motion type offense, that would still require Speedy and Marvin to be aggressive offensively. Speedy is becoming more aggressive offensively, but he only stays that way if he's knocking down shots. When he starts out cold ( which is most of the time ), he'll stop shooting altogether and defer to someone else. Marvin is altogether a different story. He seems to be afraid to attack the rim at times, because he's picking up 1 or 2 early offensive fouls a game, which is limiting his time on the floor. So he'll settle for jumpers, which isn't his forte yet. The fact that he's shooting under 40% FG right now, illustrates this point to a tee. So to be honest, it isn't the fact that we're still running the pick and roll that's the problem. It's the offensive confidence of the players we have out on the court, that is the true problem. And when you talk about offensive confidence, the only active players that have it now, are JJ, Chill, and Salim ( who runs extremely hot and cold with his shooting ). It'll be interesting to see how long Woody sticks with Marvin in the starting lineup. Because if you ask me, Childress is easily the 2nd best player on the team right now. And with all of the attention being on JJ right now, Woody may be better off starting Chill at the 2 or the 3, and bringing Marvin off the bench. That's not to say that Marvin's minutes should be cut, because I don't think they should. But I think the coaches are really trying to see what they have in this kid, before they make a decision to bring him off the bench. Or maybe they feel pressured to start him, because he was the #2 pick in the 2005 draft. To me, it's kind of the same experiment they were doing with Smoove last year. And if you remember, they had to bench Smoove for a few games last year, until he got his game right. It's just hard to justify NOT having Chill out on the floor to start games now, especially with Smoove being out. He's outshooting, outrebounding, and is mentally a better ballplayer than Marvin right now. I say, keep playing Marvin 30+ minutes a game. But start Childress. I've said since Day 1, that it shouldn't matter who starts the game, when you have to make a decision between Smoove, Shelden, Chill, and Marvin, because they all bring different things to the table. But right now, this team is struggling mightily offensively. Woody's best bet may be to start Chill, and see if he can take some of the heat off of JJ early in games. Then bring Marvin in against the other team's 2nd team, to see if he can gain some offensive confidence, and do some damage against them.

Quote: Quote: If you have never played an organized sport and if you are not competitive, you don't know how losing effects a team. If you really want us to tank, you should advocate us doing it the right way... by trading all of our good players for midround picks and ending contracts. Because otherwise, your planting the seeds for continued failure. Somebody should frame these 3 sentences, and post it on the main page of Hawksquawk.net Because it's the absolute truth. As a former athlete myself on the high school and college level, I've experienced both sides of the coin. And losing flat out sucks. You think wathing your favorite team lose is bad. Trust me when I tell you that the players feel 10 times as worse as the fans do, because they're the ones actually playing the games and losing. In fairness, Cleveland tanked like crazy to get Lebron James and things are looky pretty damn good for the future in Cleveland despite the stain of their tanking. Getting a franchise-changing talent cures all ills. The downside, is you are never guaranteed to get a franchise-changing talent. If Cleveland drops in the lottery like Boston did when Rick Pitino signed on then the tanking doesn't look quite as good. (If Boston had gotten Duncan it would have totally been worth it. Without him, you can second guess that strategy...along with their decision to cut ties immediately with Billups). LOL @ Cleveland tanking. This was Cleveland's team that year. http://databasebasketball.com/teams/teamye...LE&lg=N&yr=2002 That team was just sorry. That's like saying that we tanked in 2003, to the get #2 pick. We were just sorry.

I think we can all agree that when the Spurs acquired Tim Duncan with the top pick in 1997, that it was the type of "fortune-changing" move that some expect a top 3 pick to always be for a franchise. Well let's go from that moment on, and see what the fortunes of the top 3 picks have been, since 1998. 1998 (1) Olowankandi - complete bust (2) Mike Bibby - good scoring PG, but never a great one. Decent floor leader. Has experienced winning, but has slowly digressed over the past 3 years. (3) Raef LaFrentz - journeyman big man who can shoot, but can't defend. 1999 (1) Elton Brand - has developed into one of the elite PFs in the game, but didn't win anything until a veteran PG came to his team ( Cassell ) (2) Steve Francis - tremendous all-star talent for a few years. Labeled as a selfish player who tend to self-destruct at the end of games. Could never truly handle being "the man". Currently rotting away with the Knicks (3) Baron Davis - tremendous all-star talent who is very injury prone. Has played in a few playoff series when in Charlotte. A notch above Mike Bibby, when you talk about PGs. 2000 (1) Kenyon Martin - a very good PF when teamed with Jason Kidd, who could get him the ball in the best position to score. Was a key cog in Jersey's NBA Finals runs. Without Kidd, he's become an injury-prone, mediocre PF at best. (2) Stromile Swift - a perennial backup F/C for almost all of his career. An athletic freak who never panned out to be anything special. 6 years later, he still hasn't developed much more than when he was a rookie. (3) Darius Miles - good player who has serious attitude problems. Extremely athletic and shows promise of being a good SF in this league. Right now, he's merely a complimentary player. 2001 (1) Kwame Brown - widely considered a bust in most circles, but has come around to at least be a serviceable center with the Lakers. Has a chance to develop into a decent center, but nowhere near a good one. (2) Tyson Chandler - a great rebounder and a good shot blocker, but a horrible offensive player who is a little too frail ( or soft ) to play center. Right now, Manute Bol has had a better NBA career than Tyson. (3) Pau Gasol - a good PF/C who has stedily improved each year in the league. He can now be looked at as a franchise player, but doesn't deliver like one when playing against equal competition. Still room for him to improve though. 2002 (1) Yao Ming - was soft at first, but has rapidly developed into a dominant offensive player in the league. A perennial all-star caliber center for at least the next 5 - 8 years. (2) Jay Williams - struggled mightily in his rookie year before his motorcycle injury effectively ended his career (3) Mike Dunleavy - a decent G/F that a team could insert into its starting lineup, and have him be the #4 option in an offense. Nothing great about Mikey. 2003 (1) LeBron James - instantly proved he was worth all the hype. Has rapidly improved to be a top 5 caliber player in the NBA. Still may need another all-star caliber player to get to the NBA finals. But LeBron is the truth. (2) Darko Milicic - right now, no more than a good player to bring off the bench. Arguably the worst top 3 pick since Olowokandi. (3) Carmelo Anthony - has lived up to his hype coming out of a National Title at Syracuse. The type of impact player every great team needs. Still needs better talent around him to win . . oh wait . . he also has Iverson now. Maybe that'll be enough 2004 (1) Dwight Howard - possibly the "prototype" for future centers in the NBA. Still raw offensively, but has developed into a dominant rebounder and defensive force in the paint. Should go to many all-star games in his carrer. Team wise, he may need another all-star caliber player in order to experience playoff winning. (2) Emeka Okafor - a shot blocking machine who is improving with each game. Team isn't talented enough to win on a consistent basis, but he is a good building block for that team to build around. Problem is . . he's already been there 2.5 years, and the team hasn't improved much at all. (3) Ben Gordon - a streaky combo guard who looks like the 2nd coming of Vinny Johnson one minute, and the 2nd coming of Vinny Del Negro the next. A good player to have on your team, with other good to great players around him 2005 (1) Andrew Bogut - hasn't had the impact that many expected him to have. But he is improving and showing that he belongs in the NBA. (2) Marvin Williams - athletic SF who many say has tremdous upside. Hasn't found his offensive niche yet, so his growth may be slower than expected. (3) Deron Williams - a good young PG who understands how to play the game. He can defend. His shot needs major work. Maybe a few all-nba defensive teams in the future. So there you have it . . . the top 3 picks from 1998 - 2005. Comments? Questions? Still want to tank to get a top 3 pick?

Diesel, you make a great point about Oden possibly staying in school. People close to Oden knows that (1) he is an excellent student, and (2) he may like college life enough to stay until his junior year. That was one of the things being discussed during one of Ohio State's games a few weeks ago. Bottom line: Just because Oden could be the consensus #1, doesn't mean that it's a lock for the kid to come out this year. If Ohio St. doesn't reach its goals, he could very well return for one more year, and not go for the money . . because he knows the money will always be there whenever he decides to come out. But when I look at the various comments in all of the threads, I just wonder what the fan base here really want? People were so against the Iverson trade, even though adding AI to this team with JJ, would've given us the best backcourt in the league. That move may not lead to an NBA title, but it could've secured a playoff spot for us. That means that we'd have to give up some of our young talent. This is a move that a vocal minority on this board feels needs to be done in the future anyway. But they were totally against bringing in AI. Then on the flip side, they grow tired of watching the young guys struggle at times, and have no patience to see if they can actually develop into consitent players. So when we lose, they want to throw the season away, to bring in MORE young guys who will take time to develop. So which is it Hawks fans? Do you want to win now, by bringing in a veteran player and possibly trading off one of the kids? Or can you have the patience to see if the kids can come around to possibly win now, or next year? This board was pretty much split on if we could make the playoffs or not anyway with the current squad. So you have to pick a side, and stay with it. It can't be an "either/or" to these questions. You have to prefer to do one or the other, and stand by what you believe. Personally, I'll stick with the kids. I think it's more important for this current team to build some chemistry and learn how to play with each other on both ends of the floor. So far, they haven't really had a chance to do that yet. People are down on Marvin, but they forget that this would've been his first year as a starter. When you look at his numbers, he actually isn't playing bad, he's just not playing like we all thought he would. And you have to attribute that to him missing all of those games to start the season. There's no way that Marvin alone could replace what Al gave us offensively last year. But he does need time to see what kind of scorer he wants to be in this league. If he's not ready, then bring him off the bench and start Chill. Plenty of people on this board have given Smoove a pass, because the excuse for him is "well he's a slow starter". Smoove actually proved them right, by becoming a much more efficient player in December, than he was in January. So my question is . . should Marvin also get the benefit of the doubt and see if he can raise his game in the month of January? From Diesel: If you have never played an organized sport and if you are not competitive, you don't know how losing effects a team. If you really want us to tank, you should advocate us doing it the right way... by trading all of our good players for midround picks and ending contracts. Because otherwise, your planting the seeds for continued failure. Somebody should frame these 3 sentences, and post it on the main page of Hawksquawk.net Because it's the absolute truth. As a former athlete myself on the high school and college level, I've experienced both sides of the coin. And losing flat out sucks. You think wathing your favorite team lose is bad. Trust me when I tell you that the players feel 10 times as worse as the fans do, because they're the ones actually playing the games and losing.

LOL @ comparing construction projects, with the grind of playing professional sports. I'm sure your construction friend wasn't exerting himself to the maximum for about 2.5 hours, 3 times a week. The better comparison would be with Donovan McNabb, who tried his best to play with his sports hernia, but had to shut it down when it started to really affect his performance and how he felt from day to day. If you were a manager at work that had to walk around a little, I'm sure that you could still go to work on a high ankle sprain. But try playing basketball 2 hours on a high ankle sprain, and see how effective you are.

LOL @ this board. It's so easy to scapegoat this team and the decisions that they've made . . NOW. It's too easy, in my opinion. Question: What would the Hawks record be, if all of the injuries handn't crippled this team? Answer: Ask that same question about the Miami Heat, and come up with your answer. ( And it's not even the Shaq injury with the Heat. It's also the Jason Williams injury at the beginning of the season. They lost two major cogs to their team, and they're currently on the outside looking in, as far as the playoffs go. And now, Flash is day-to-day with a hand injury. ) This Hawks were build to run and play defense. Those are the type of players that we've acquired here. So far this season, we haven't been able to come close to maximizing the full potential of this team, because everybody keeps getting hurt. It's funny though. Everything was great when we were 4 - 1, and were one of the BEST defensive teams in the league. Anybody remember those days? This team could've easily been 6 - 1, if not for a horrible Michael Redd and-1 call, and a great shot by Ray Allen in OT to beat us. Even with all of that, we've been a pretty competitive team the entire season, no matter who we played. LOL @ those of you who think that this team can't win an NBA title. Of course we can't. How about concentrating on making the playoffs first, then tweaking the roster to make a run for a championship first. LOL . . I'm sure that the UTAH Jazz were thinking "NBA title" when they made the move to acquire Boozer 2 years ago. LOL . . that team was only concerned about replacing the Mailman with an adequate PF. By the way, Utah can't win an NBA title with their current roster either. They'll definitely have to tweak that roster once or twice in the next few years, if they become a perennial playoff team. But they have put themselves in position to return to the playoffs. And frankly, I think we put ourselves in that same position as well, at the start of the season. But your PG gets hurt before the preseason. Then your starting SF gets hurt right before the season. We play well despite those two being out of the lineup, then other people start getting hurt. All of you wanting to indict this team right now, just do me a favor. If this team gets back to full strength, and they start to win, don't FLIP-FLOP on how you feel about the makeup of this team. Stay consistent in your criticism, even if we're winning 5 - 7 games in a row.

True fans of this team would NEVER want to see the Hawks tank the season, just to get a top 3 pick. Take that for what you want. It's one thing if you just couldn't compete on the same level night after night, like 3 years ago. LOL @ tanking the season just to get a pick. By the way, the "great" Greg Oden got completely dominated by Florida last weekend. He didn't even look like a top 15 player, let alone the consensus #1. I know the kid is still a little hurt, but he doesn't look like a "once in a generation" type center to me. I got to see Kevin Durant play against my Vols last weekend as well ( great win by the Vols, by the way ). Durant looks to be a good player, but the Garnett comparisons are way too soon as well. LOL . . what makes people think everything will change if we get either of those two players? We've been in the lottery for what . . 6 - 7 years now? The best thing for this team to do, is to keep this squad together, and let them play as hard as they can on a nightly basis. Real ballplayers don't like to lose, so you just can't tell your guys to just "give up". Especially not young guys. I bet the Bobcats don't take the season, just to get Oden or Durant, so why should we? Matter of fact, let me take this one more step. Any of you wanting to see YOUR FAVORITE team to lose the vast majority of their games this year, should just turn in your "Hawks fan membership", and never return. We definitely don't need those types of fans amongst our small fan base.

Quote: I dont watch the Titans much, so is the 51% a product of having bad receivers/lineman, or is he just not making the throws? Im sure its not play calling, because I think Jeff Fisher is one of the top 5 coaches in the NFL I watch the Titans every week, seeing that I live in Titans country. Young, at times, is way off with his passes, especially the short touch passes. But he's gotten better and better at throwing the short to intermediate pass. The receivers he throws to, would'nt be no mroe than the #3 guy on any other team in the league, including the Falcons. Vince might actually be a little better than he is now, if he had a receiver the quality of Michael Jenkins or Ashlie Lelie . . and we all know that they're only average receivers on their best day. Bennett is a #3 receiver. Jones is getting better, but is no more than a #3 receiver, possibly a #4 receiver. Bobby Wade has personally dropped about 3 Vince Young TD passes himself. The Titans do have David Givens, from the Patriots, but he has been hurt the majority of the year. So for the Titans to be able to do anything on offense, is a miracle. Travis Henry does have a lot to do with the good fortunes of the Titans. You can also add what Pacman Jones brings to the table as a DB and as a KR/PR, as a big reason why the Titans are winning right now. But make no mistake about it. This team is winning, mainly because of Vince Young and what he's able to do in the 4th quarter.

Quote: Quote: Well nobody in the league is good enough to win games by themselves. Not even Tomlinson. So why hold that against a rookie QB? I dont think anyone is claiming he is the MVP of the league, but good grief, the guy has obviously earned the praise he has been getting. He only completes 51% of his passes. Granted, I think he'll be a better thrower than Vick, but he's had 3 or 4 starts this year throwing under 100 yards. That's not how a QB is supposed to play. LOL @ hotlanta. You haven't even been paying attention to how Vince has been playing. He was supposed to struggle in his first few starts as a rookie QB, because EVERY rookie QB struggles. But to arbitrarily say that he's only completing 51% of this passes, is like saying that Smoove hasn't improved as a shooter, because he's only shooting 43% FG . . even though we all know that he's shot over 50% in December. Vince Young's numbers during the Titans 6 game win streak. @ PHI: 8 - 22 - 101 yds . . 1 TD . . 49 yds rushing vs NYG: 24 - 35 - 249 yds . . 2 TD . . 69 yds rushing - 1 TD vs IND: 15 - 25 - 163 yds . . 2 TD - 2 INT . . 78 yds rushing @ HOU: 19 - 29 - 218 yds . . 1 INT . . 86 yds rushing - 1 TD vs JAX: 8 - 15 - 85 yds . . 4 yds rushing vs BUF: 13 - 20 - 183 yds . . 2 TD . . 61 yds rushing - 1 TD Total: 87 - 144 - 60.4% comp - 999 yds 7 TD - 3 INT 347 yds rushing - 3 rushing TDS 1,246 total yds - 10 total TDs Three come from behind 4th quarter wins and one OT win. I like Mike Vick a lot, but Young is already better than Vick beacause of two major reasons. When Vick gets in trouble, he tends to step backwards, takes his eyes off from downfield, tries to beat people to whatever side he's rolled to, and then make the decision to either run or throw. Most of the time, his best decision is to run, because he can't pick up where his receivers are. Vick is in his 6th year in the league, 5th as a starter, and still does the SAME THING. When Young gets in trouble, he almost never takes his eyes from downfield, almost always either steps up in the pocket or slides to one side, looks downfield FIRST, then decides to either throw the ball or run. He's a rookie, and he already knows when to turn upfield, and not look to immeadiately run when he gets in trouble. Most importantly, Vince is a born leader that the Titans players already completely trust. Mike is a great athletic QB who exhibits very little leadership qualities. LOL @ that's not how a QB is supposed to play. A QB is supposed to lead his team to victory, no matter how he does it. And that's exactly what Vick does. That'll be like complaining that a PG shoots too much and has a limited number of assists, because a PG is supposed to make his team better by getting them the ball. Tell that to a scoring PG like a Sam Cassell, who has always been labeled as a winner, even though he's not particularly regarded as being a great PG.

(( taking the weed away from Johnny )) I know our defensive issues at center is bad right now. But Andersen isn't going to solve that problem. I mean, he's maybe a foot taller than Solomon Jones, but I guarantee that Solomon is a better defender than he is. If all we're worried about is getting a defender in the middle, why not call up the Mavericks, and see which one of our "expendible" players they would want for DeSagana Diop. Because Dampier is playing much better this year, Diop isn't getting nearly the minutes he got last year. Maybe you can call up Cuban, and see if Dallas would do a ZaZa for Diop and Mbenga trade. LOL . . even Pops Mensa-Bonsu would be a better "value" fit here, than spending a boatload of money on Andersen . . and Pops can't even get off the bench in Dallas. Prediction: Down the stretch of games, Smoove may be guarding the other team's center, with Marvin and Chill or Shelden in the game, to complete the frontline. ZaZa will be relegated to being that scoring option we can go to for the first 3 quarters.

Quote: Quote: Ya think a strong coach would allow that sort of thing?...Not likely...he would have taken the bull by the horns himself...of course a strong coach wouldn't have allowed the collapse in the first place. Really? Quote: Shareef Abdur-Rahim scored 21 points, including a 3-pointer in the final minute, and the Sacramento Kings rallied from a 16-point deficit to beat the Utah Jazz 98-97 Friday I guess Jerry Sloan is a weak coach... Quote: When Seattle’s lead grew to 14 it seemed the Mavericks were just on the wrong side of destiny on this rainy night in the Pacific Northwest. The Mavericks’ bench is the fifth-worst in the league in terms of their point contribution, coming in right at 22 points per contest prior to the Seattle game. There was little reason to hope that someone would step in and help the Mavs recover. Jerry Stackhouse has been struggling with a groin injury all season (and much of last season, for that matter), and even when he has been in the lineup his shooting touch has been off. Devean George was expected to be a force off the bench, but has also had a hard time getting healthy and getting into Avery’s system. It’s safe to say that the Mavericks’ fate seemed to be sealed when Nowitzki hit the court. It didn’t take a 60-year old boxer coming out of retirement to save the day for the Mavs, but what happened seemed almost as unlikely. They used a 19-8 run to open the second half, a 10-0 run in the fourth, and a gargantuan performance from their stalwart center to turn what looked like a sure loss into a 103-95 win over the Sonics. I guess Seattle's coach sucks too. You see DJay, Sometimes, it has nothing to do with coaching but it's about boneheaded plays committed... and sometimes, it's your best players who committ them. What's a coach to do? Pull the best player? Or sometimes, it's because of the loss of momentum. Aside from calling timeouts and making what you feel is the right adjustment, there's nothing that can be done there either. I don't blame Woody for what the team does. I blame him for some things that may be in-game. But to say that another coach would have stoppped the slide is silly. It just may be that another coach would not have had the 21 point lead in the first place. However, JJ is right, the team has to do the things that got it to the lead. That's not coaching more than it is experience. Excellent post Diesel. People think everything in sports revolves around coaching. Well, even good coaches can look like crap, when they have players making horrible decisions on the floor. ( see Larry Brown ). The Knicks are playing better this year under Isaiah, than under Brown. But no one in their right mind would say that Zeke is a better coach than Brown, because of that. What was bad about Wednesday's meltdown, is that it happened offensively AND defensively. When you see a meltdown on both sides of the ball, that's not coaching. That's all on the players.

Thank you for starting this topic, because I was going to start the exact same thread. The next 5 games are critical for this team, when you see the quality of opponents that we play. While the East is horrible, a 5 or 6 game losing streak could absolutely kill this team right now. With 1/4 of the season gone, I've made these observations about the Hawks. - We can play with . . and BEAT . . 85% of the teams in this league, on a nightly basis, no matter where the game is . . if JJ is healthy. It's all a matter of finishing games and putting a team away. Right now, we just can't do it, unless the opponent completely melts down. - This team plays much better when playing from behind, than playing with the lead. Why . . I don't know. Maybe it's the youth we have on this team, and kids not wanting to make mistakes down the stretch. Young kids tend to either "overthink", or be extra cautious when ahead. But when you're behind, you're just out there playing, and not getting down on yourself if you make a bad play. - JJ, T-Lue, and Salim are the only people on this team I trust taking big shots down the stretch of games. But there's a catch to that. Because T-Lue and Salim are so horrible defensively, and can't run the team the way a good PG should, it's almost counter-productive to have them on the floor down the stretch. If they happen to score, they may give the points right back on the defensive end, or worse, turn the ball over and limit our offensive possessions. - Since Woodson laid into Smoove about taking all of those 3's back in late November, he has become a much more efficient offensive player. He's actually taking good shots within the flow of the game. - Josh Childress may be the 3rd most important player on this team, next to JJ and Smoove. We miss his ability to knock down open shots, get loose balls, and play defense on the 2s and 3s in this league. We're 4 - 3 with Chill in the lineup . . which could've easily have been a 6 - 1 record, if not for the last second losses to Seattle and Milwaukee. We're 5 - 12 without him. - For Marvin to really help this team, he must become this team's "slasher". While his jumper may be slightly improved, we need him to be the guy who can take his man off the dribble whenever he has a decided mismatch. And I know he's still not 100% with his hand, but if he wants to elevate his game to the next level, he'll have to be the guy who goes to the hole and finishes, or draws enough contact to get his points from the line. - JJ is a star, but to be a superstar, he has to DEMAND the basketball down the stretch, and make a play HIMSELF. I know he's a good guy, a great teammate, and plays within the offense. But as "the man" for this team, he has to be WILLING to take every shot in the 4th quarter, if need be. And he can't settle for the jumper all the time, no matter how good of a shooter he is. Like Marvin, he has to be ready and WILLING to go to the hole and draw contact, so that he can score from the FT line. This team, as a whole, wastes too many possessions, because we're settling for jumpers. For all of the critics of Allen Iverson, you KNEW that Iverson was going to be the guy taking the shots down the stretch. That may not be great "team ball", but a superstar should ALWAYS take the game into his own hands, and have the fortunes of his team live and die with him. D-Wade does it. AI does it. LeBron does it, although he will pass on occasion. Steve Nash does it when the game is close. Paul Pierce ALWAYS does it. KG doesn't do it all the time, and he gets ripped for that. And right now, JJ is in that KG mode, in which he's deferring to other players at the wrong time, when he should be doing it himself. I'd rather for JJ to defer to others in the early part of games, than down the stretch. - ZaZa is getting to the point where he's in the same category as Salim and T-Lue defensively. And I'll say again what I predicted before the season. If Shelden shows the ability to guard centers in this league, ZaZa will be the one who's playing time is cut, just so he won't be a complete liability on defense. If not Shelden, it may even be Lorenzen who is in the game down the stretch. But if we go with a non-offensive center, that makes it more important for JJ, Marvin, Smoove or whomever else, to make plays on offense. LOL . . I could type for days on this team, but I'll stop here. Let's see if this team plays an inspired game against Indy tonight.

The key for this team is to not fall too far below .500 I say that if they fall 8 games below .500 before the All-Star break, the talk of playoffs may be out the window. Once January comes, there are no more excuses for this team. They should be fully healthy by that time. If they're going to be a playoff team, they need to start putting together some win streaks. - win 5 in a row . . lose 1 . . win 3 . . lose 2 . . win 6 But as long as they stay around .500, they have a legit shot at that #8 seed.

You have to remember that Moore is the same guy that said before the season started, that we still needed a guard here . . a guard like a Mike Bibby. LOL . . I lost all respect for that cat right when he said that. Bibby doesn't even shoot as well as Salim these days, and he's never been a playmaking PG. I try not to read anything T-Moore writes. And that's a shame.

Quote: I think JJ's All-Star bid will depend on how quickly he returns to form. If he picks back up tonight where he left off before his injury, I think he will make the team over Redd and one of the PGs. I think if JJ shot 50% FG 45% 3FG and averaged 30 ppg until the break, that he still might get snubbed for the All-Star game. The one thing that can elevate his status, is if the Hawks start winning on a consistent basis, or put up a 5 - 7 game win streak. We're going to have to do that at some point in the season anyway to have a shot at the playoffs. January would be the perfect time for that to happen for the sake of the Hawks, and for the sake of JJ making the All-Star team.

Quote: I agree with you Hoosier. Woody doesn't do the right things down the stretch most of the time. Some teams have a knack for winning games down the stretch and some know just how to lose them and expect to lose. This one was all on Woody. Giving the ball to JJ every time when the entire universe knows he is getting it is just stupid. LeBron was mentioned in this thread...he has been known to draw and dish which always gets you an open shot. That would have worked last night as well. But, we go one on one in that spot and end up with a tough shot. Cyde, most here don't care if your a legend in your own mind. Your posts are no more or less valid than anyone elses. And, you have zero idea who posts on this board. Zero. The youth excuse is bogus as well. These games are NOT being lost on youth. They are lost on inferior execution and stagnant offensive basketball. That is 100% coaching. LOL @ the youth excuse being bogus, when you see coaches all the time lose with young teams. But it's easier to give the players some slack, when you don't like the coach. Almost every single young team in this league loses, until they're able to play together for a few years or add quality veteran talent. And when that happens, the coach seems to turn into a better coach overnight. It's safe to say that if the Hawks go on a 4 - 5 game winning streak sometime in the near future, Woody will get none of the credit, while the players will get all of the praise from you guys. The Clippers were always a young talented team . . and lost . . until they added Sam Cassell. But I guess Dunleavy is a great coach, even though he's been fired about 3 times from NBA jobs. The "great" Larry Brown goes to a team of overpaid vets who thought they were superstars, and inherited a slew of young players, and looked like the worst coach in NBA history . . even though people widely consider him to be a top 3 coach in the NBA. LOL @ the youth excuse being bogus. It's not only youth. It's youth and experience. It's a reason why a team like San Antonio and Detroit win all of the time. From top to bottom, I don't know if either of those teams have better overall talent than we do. But they're definitely more experienced, which makes all the difference in professional sports.

Psychology, I think the only way this team wins 2 games this week, is if they beat Utah. Beating one of the league's elite teams would go a long way in restoring the confidence of these guys. But lose to Utah, and you're asking this team to win 2 games on consecutive nights against teams that know us very well. Frankly, the only way we're beating Utah, is if they have a bad shooting night. Even if we have a great shooting night, they could still beat us if they also shoot well. But Utah is going to have to be off a little offensively, and we're going to have to be very sound defensively, to win. The other game we can win, is probably the Indiana game. Harrington will be looking to have a monster game in his return back to ATL, which may mean that he'll try to do too much and hurt his team. And we match up well with Indy. Personally, I think we'll lose against Utah and Detroit, but beat Indy. Hope I'm wrong though, and win 2 of 3.

Quote: You can probably look at the youngest team every single year and see that they lose most of their close games. It takes time to learn how to close games out at the NBA level. The point is we don't know what Woody is preaching the wrong things or if the young guns aren't executing what he's preaching. Excellent post #2.

It's not that I'm defensive, I just get tired of people acting like Woody doesn't know what he's doing. LOL . . this is a guy who has been involved in NBA basketball ( as a player and as a coach ), longer than most of these posters have been alive. Yet, a lot of you act like the guy has NO CLUE WHATSOEVER on what he's doing. I'm not saying that Woody is perfect, because he definitely isn't. But some of you continue to nit-pick at every single little thing the guy does. It's crazy. You give the player the benefit of the doubt, but not the coach? How many games have you seen, in which a coach specifically tells his team "DON'T FOUL THE JUMPSHOOTER!!" toward the end of a game . . and a player does just that . . foul the jumpshooter. LOL . . I guess the coach gets the blame for that. This team loses close games down the stretch, more because of mental errors on the court, than bad or great coaching. Last night, JJ got a shot that he always hits over a guy 4 inches smaller than he was . . and he missed. But put that on the coach I guess. LOL @ this statement by you. I have no doubt that he knows basketball theory backwards and forwards, but he does not know how to play to the situation, or create on the fly. And the fact that he is overwhelmed allows important details to escape him. LOL . . who was more likely "overwhelmed" in that situation? - A 20 year old player in his 2nd year in the NBA, who hasn't even played 7 years TOTAL of high school, college, and NBA ball combined? - Or a person who has been a 4 year college and NBA player, and a longtime coach in the NBA, whether it be as a head coach or as an assistant coach? LOL . . there's just no logic in who you think was "overwhelmed".

Interesting reading this thread after last night's game. It validates the point that Ex was making about Marvin. But it also validates the points that everyone else was making as well.

D'Antoni wanted to play a more international style of ball. And he always knew that Diaw could be a talented player if put in the right situation. But once again, a poster on this board tries to justify a move another team makes, and uses that to dog what we're doing. And you just can't do that. If you haven't noticed, Diaw is back to playing CENTER for the Suns. Amare may be listed as the Center, but most Suns fans will tell you that it's Diaw who is back playing center in the half court offense, while Amare plays the 4 and roams from baseline to baseline and from the FT line down, to get his points. When the Suns were struggling so much, they were playing Diaw at the 3, with Marion and Amare at the 4 and 5 spots. Diaw can't take advantage of decent SFs in this league on offense, so his offense struggled mightily at the beginning of the year. D'Antoni then made the move to put Diaw back at center, and run low post offense through him from there. And because of the personnel that Phoenix has assembled, he's able to find people either cutting to the basket, or wide open for jumpers when they try to double team him. Put Diaw in any other system, and he's not nearly as effective, because no team in their right mind would play him at center. But with Amare back, he's able to play center on offense, but go back to guarding SFs on defense, and let Amare guard the centers. As far as our personnel goes, who does Woody misuse on this team? - JJ is Mr. Everything - Smoove isn't polished enough offensively to be a big time scorer, but he's being put in perfect positions to affect games defensively - Marvin is just coming back, but is probably being groomed to be that consistent 2nd scorer that this team needs - ZaZa is looked upon to give us some low post offense, but he knows that he's not a good defensive player. And the other guys on this team are speciality players that do one or two things pretty good, but that's it. So who is Woody or this organization "misusing", that is costing this team victories? It's too easy to blame coaches when things aren't going well. You have to look at both sides of the coin.