TheNorthCydeRises

Hot . . you only halfway get it. The 92 and 96 teams got it done because almot ALL OF THOSE PLAYERS were Hall of Fame players. And other than Laettner( on the 92 team ), none of those players were young. And when we sent those players, the rest of the world were in awe of them. These were the guys that were the heroes of all of these players. Now they're playing against them. As far as this team goes, you're right on a few things: - the FT shooting did kill them, but not as much as their lack of defending the pick and roll. We missed 13 FTs . . Greece missed 10. Those guys that you say stink at FT shooting, all shoot over 80% in the NBA. Wade, LeBron, Melo, JJ, Hinrich, Paul, almost all of them are good FT shooters. But they didn't get it done this morning. - You're right about the shooting. But it's because these guys fall in love with the 3 point shot and don't develop their mid-range games. A guy like Sam Cassell would've been perfect for the US team, because his entire game is the 15 - 22 foot jumpshot. LBJ and Wade's strength is taking it to the basket, a style that only works in INTL play if teams are playing you man to man. And you're not going to get the NBA type calls in INTL basketball. And understand this about these FIBA teams. You have guys on there that have played for 5 - 10 years together. That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE, no matter what sport it is. Let me ask you this. Does THIS TEAM lose in this tournament? PG - Cassell ( the perfect guard for INTL play ) G - Kobe ( this team DESPERATELY needed his leadership and outside shooting ) F - Melo ( played great, most of the time ) F - Duncan ( an unselfish player that can also play D ) C - Shaq ( the stop gap in the middle that would be perfect in a zone defense ) Bench G - Hinrich ( gotta love how he played in the tourney ) G - JJ ( not Redick, but Joe Johnson . . . he's probably the best all-around player on this squad with no glaring weaknesses. The probem on this squad, is that they didn't trust JJ. Guys like LeBron and Wade would rather play 1 on 5 than to pass to an open teammate. ) G - Michael Redd ( hired gun off the bench ) F - James ( who should be content with being a point forward on this squad ) F - Ben Wallace ( the energy guy that would dominante the boards and play the big people off the pick and roll very well ) F - Ron Artest ( the perfect defensive stopper for this team, that can also play offense and hit the outside shot ) C - D. Howard ( he's also a good energy guy on the interior ) That's the difference between us and them. They're still putting together the best squad possible that can win during INTL competition. We're still trying to cross promote the stars of the NBA and still hoping that their "greatness" can overcome any flaws during these competitions. LeBron, Wade, and Melo had the mentality that . . "OK, we're losing, so I need to take over". When Melo did it, everything worked out. When Bron and Wade did it, things got worse, because they're not good outside shooters.

People just don't realize how much different FIBA b-ball is to the USA/NBA style. The same guys that are stars on the FIBA circut, tend to struggle when playing the man to man/star oriented basketball that the NBA promotes. Guys like LeBron and Wade aren't good enough mid-range shooters to shoot people out of zone defenses. And the slashing style that they excel at, won't be as effective against the top teams in the world. Wade especially looks great at times, but looked like a straight garbage player at times, when he started forcing things. He was trying to take zone defenses one on five, then wonder why he wasn't getting all the calls he was used to getting. I watched the entire game this morning, and I think Coack K made 2 huge mistakes. 1) He went with Melo, Wade, and Lebron as a group way too much. While they may be your best players on the team, their flaws become exposed big time in international ball. Melo's game is perfect for international play, because he's comfortable with just catching and shooting from 18 feet and out. Wade and James aren't. Plus, the defense that Wade and James played on the pick and roll, was just flat out atrocious. When all 3 played on the floor together, Team USA was a less effective team. 2) D. Howard and Brand should've played a lot more. When they had that great start in the 1st half, they were the energy players on the floor that were getting it done. Howard especially was a beast on the boards. And when Team USA started having trouble stopping the pick and roll, they could've used either Brand or Howard as deterrents at the rim. Once the player rolled to the hole, no one was there to stop him. The days of us just stepping out on the court and killing everybody because we're supposed to be more talented, are over. You want to see the solution to the problems we have in international ball? Just look at what the women do. The women have basically had the same core players on the national team for about 12 years now. And they have a big advantage over the NBA players in that the vast majority of the Women's national team actually play overseas during the winter and spring months. So they know the FIBA rules inside and out. Maybe the US/NBA needs to start an international style basketball league, to give guys who aren't good enough to make NBA rosters, a chance to play international style ball. Then for those guys that want to be a part of Team USA, have them play in the FIBA style NBA league for a few weeks at a time, to get more acclimated to that style. Think of it like the Busch series compared to the NEXTEL cup series, in NASCAR.

Quote: Getting to the line just isn't JJs game. He doesn't have the explosive athleticism of Wade or Lebron and so he can't finish in the lane like they can. Knowing this he developed that mid-range game which is so effective. I look for Marvin, Speedy and to a lesser extent Shelden to get to the line. However I don't think JJ will ever get to the line much. KG doesn't get to the line either. I would like to see JJ shoot a little better from the perimeter and cut down on his turnovers. I think Speedy will help him in both areas since defenses won't be able to pressure him as much. While what you say is true, especially about guys like Marvin and Shelden. But it doesn't mean that JJ can't improve his FT attempts. Guys like Larry Bird or Reggie Miller didn't have the athleticism that JJ had, but they routinely got to the FT line at least 450 - 500 times a year, especially early in their careers. That's the number where JJ needs to be next year, in order for us to be successful. 330 FTA's isn't going to cut it, unless he's shooting close to a 50% FG clip next year. Too many times last year, this team went through scoring droughts simply because the shots weren't falling. This team settled for too many jumpers during stretches like that. And they didn't get to the FT line. JJ will never get around the 700 - 800 mark, but 500 is attainable. And if he gets there, it'll make his game that much better.

I agree with Pimp. GETTING TO THE LINE will improve JJ to another level. All of your great scorers in this league get to the FT line a ton. If JJ's FTA doesn't improve by more than 200, he'll have to shoot what he shot last year, or higher, for this team to win more consistently.

LOL @ teke. You're going to give the guy a heart attack. But dang, I can't resist . . Playoff teams who functioned last year without a good center: Phoenix - unless you count Diaw or Tim Thomas as being good centers . . lol. Phoenix basically played with 3 forwards and 2 guards the entire year. Dallas - the ultimate 2-headed monster in the post. One could defend against average centers, but provide virtually no offense. The other could do a little of both, but not very well and not on a consistent basis. LA Lakers - the "great" Kwame Brown . . . nuff said Chicago - Chandler at least blocked shots and rebounded the ball, but not much else. And you see where that got him. Washington - The "monster" Brendan Haywood and Etan "the Hulk" Thomas struck fear in the hearts of Eastern Conference opponents. Indiana - Jeff Foster is a small step above ZaZa. But maybe this isn't fair since JO plays the center position too Milwaukee - Magloire played so well for the Bucks, that it earned him a quick ticked out of Mill-town. Now Bogut can finally prove if he's ready to be the next good center in this league. New Jersey - maybe not fair to put them here either, seeing that Nenad Kristic can shoot the 15 foot jumper. Defensively, he's garbage, but he does provide offense.

Why deal a guy that could be a key bench player? You can't deal Childress, just for the sake of dealing him. If he improves to the point where he's a hot commodity, then maybe he can be dealt for a GOOD PLAYER at a need position. If not, the Hawks are better off keeping Chill and scouring the FA market to fill other needs.

1) I agree. This ownership mess is crazy and needs to be resolved. 2) The only way we can add a star, is if we deplete the talent on this team. This league has proven that if you don't have adequate talent around a star player, YOU WILL NOT WIN!! ( see Kobe ( last year ), Iverson, Paul Pierce, T-Mac, Garnett ( last year ), The Hawks aren't in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM ready to deal 2 - 3 good players, just to bring in one great player. How many mediocre Hawk teams was Nique the leader of? It wasn't his fault that some of those teams from 89 - 93 couldn't win over 43 games. 3) This stupid sports writer doesn't think that most NBA players DON'T know anything about the ATL? Shoot, half of the league is in and out of that city during the offseason. But it's hard to sell a city when the team you're going to loses more than it wins, and has an in-crowd fan base that acts like they're at a church service at times. 4) Stick with Woodson? LOL . . we should only stick with him if we're close to a .500 team. If this team starts out 3 - 8, 4 - 11, he should be fired immeadiately and a vet coach should step right in to take his place. Call Hubie Brown and see if he wants to coach again. 5) LOL @ lose the unis. Whenever a "credible" writer has to come up with something like this, he loses ALL credibility.

LOL @ us doing a blockbuster trade. Who do people want on this team besides Joe Johnson? If we couldn't even get a decent player for Al, what do you think people are going to give us for guys like Josh Childress or Josh Smith? Be patient Hawks fans. Let this season play out before suggesting that this organization do anything rash like trading a Childress, Smoove, or M. Williams for some overrated "star" player. LOL @ blockbuster trade. You can't do blockbuster trades if you don't have blockbuster players. And you don't trade people, just for the sake of trading them. I'll say it again . . . Most Hawks fans have NO CONFIDENCE WHATSOEVER that these kids can turn this around in a year or two. And that's a shame.

Quote: Let me just say this... Last year, Phoenix was one of the most dominate teams in the LEAGUE without a Center. Let me say that again... WiTHOUT A 2 way DOMINANT CENTER? Damn, how could this be... How could they be one of the most dominant teams in the game WITHOUT A 2 way dominant Center? In Walter's mind, that's what you need to win. Well, the truth is that if any team can get a Center like he's talking about they could be very competitive. So Walter does have a point... BUT Walter fails to realize the reality. Those players are scarce. In Walter's Mind... Scarce means... Oh My God.. we need to get one at all cost. However, the truth is that Scarce means that there aren't many teams with the ability to dominate the post with a dominate 2 way Center. In fact, until a change comes, a 2 way dominate Center not named Shaq won't amount to championships because the speed of the game is changing. The next cycle in basketball is running. IN a running game, the Center means a lot less. Why do you think Wilt Chamberlain only have 2 championships to show for his 13 year career? What we must do is find a way to master "team ball". That means team offense and team defense. So that weather we have this unicorn of positions filled or not, we can still be very competitive. Now, let's refute some points Quote: A difficult to acquire player who would be our highly valuable team catalyst does not come cheap. Yet, when I highlight a player with that potential in Bynum many here cry foul at the mere perceived talent cost of Childress/Harrington. Whaaaa! WTF!?! You argument would be somewhat compelling IF the Lakers were willing to trade Bynum and IF Bynum were that good. Bynum is a project big man who's team will not trade him. SO in essence, that's a closed deal. Quote: We just lost out on a trade AND did absolutely NOTHING to make this team a winner much less a contender. I agree 100%... maybe even higher.. 1000%. However, I can't just disregaurd the circumstances. I think our ownership issues is far worse than the current owners are willing to admit publicly. I believe that BK made the deal that he could make. Everything else that we have heard is just the smoke and mirrors. Quote: It's just sad and lame that we can't see much less realize the type move we most need to make because we are so busy getting players we don't really need or fumbling, bumbling, stumbling in deals for no players. I don't think you take into consideration our needs and our abilities. I think at some point, there will be moves made to get star quality players. However, before we get to that point, we have to explore the true value of our assets. I think this is the year that we will make some tough decisions. That means you may seen the core become: Speedy, JJ, MW, SW.. I think we need to find out who's capable of playing and becoming a star and who is just an asset. Back to your crying about a Center. There are several Centers that will be in the upcoming draft. I personally would like to see us deal with Seattle for one of their Centers. Maybe Salim for Petro.. However, we have to wait and watch... No need in crying now... Excellent post. And to further strengthen the comment about Phoenix, they've done it being undersized at BOTH center AND power forward. What my boy Shawn Marion has been able to do for that team, is short of incredible. He's just not the type that is good a creating his own offense off the dribble. But the rest of his game is tremendous. And look at Diaw in that Dallas - Phoenix series. He constantly abused Diop and Dampier by using his quickness to get to the rim. None of those cats could do anything with him. Team ball is definitely the wave of the future of this league. You'll still have your star players. And stare will still dominate the game down the stretch. But it's going to be those teams that play great team ball, that will consistently win in this league. That's why I KNOW we're going in the right direction. Once again, great post Diesel.

Quote: Quote: How about we just wait for Chris Kaman NEXT SUMMER, offer him that ridiculous 6 year - 60 million deal that Nene and Tyson Chandler got, and go from there. First of all you are assuming Kaman won't be resigned before he is a free agent. Secondly he is a RFA, which means the Clippers will have the upper hand. The advantage the Hawks have is that they don't need a center who can score. They just need one who can play D. There are only two teams that made the playoffs last year that had starting centers (not on rookie contracts) making less than the MLE. Dallas has Diop (although I can't remember if he was starting in the playoffs). However they also have Dampier who will make $8.6 million next year. Indy has Foster, who plays next to 7 ft JO ($18 million). The idea that the Hawks can win big with a Zaza/Lo combo at center is wrong. And there aren't going to be many oppotunities going forward to get an upgrade at center. You're right Ex. Kaman probably will be signed before he becomes an RFA if he gets a MAX deal. If the Clips try to get him at a cheaper price, Kaman's agent may believe he can get a max deal from somebody else. But I'll agree with you and say the Clips will probably have Kaman locked up. And you're wrong about us not needing a center who can score. We don't have any reliable scorers on this team, outside of JJ, so we need just about everybody on the team contributing on the offensive end, until someone emerges as a bonafide 2nd and 3rd option on this team. We do need ZaZa's offense. Now, if we can find a backup to ZaZa that is the opposite of him, we could have that offensive and defensive player in the middle. It just won't be in the same body. But you don't pay 8 - 9 million to get that type of player or give up key starters or role players to get him. I would love to have a Marcus Camby type here in the middle. But 75% of the teams in the league don't have that type of player in the middle. They either have a scrub, a decent offensive player, or a decent defensive player. Re-read Diesel's last post. He breaks it down perfectly. The whole purpose of Dallas bringing in Diop, was because Dampier was unreliable on the offensive and defensive ends by himself. Both of those guys are interchangable. If given the choice, Dallas would probably keep Diop, but deal Dampier with the quickness. And Ex, you need to take more baby steps in this rebuilding process. We as fans, and I'm sure we as an organization, want to win a championship. But this team is nowhere near being a championship quality team or a team that can "win big". Even if we had Ben Wallace, we wouldn't be anywhere near being a team that could do that yet. So like Walter, you're just going to have to be patient and hope this organization doesn't do anything rash. The Knicks are a perfect example of an organization trying to build Rome in a day, with marginal talent or good talent that doesn't fit the team. We don't want to be the Knicks. We want to be the Bulls. And the Bulls showed tremendous patience with their kids and let them grow into their roles. Then, when they had a legit chance to upgrade the team and get picks or good talent back in return, they traded some of their assets. Like Diesel said, let this season play out, and see who we should keep here, and who we should deal. But for now, hope and pray that a ZaZa/Lo Wright/Shelden combo in the middle is adequate enough to get us close to .500 Matter of fact, you have no choice but to hope that now.

LOL @ this thread, from KING WHINER. Walter, your problem is that you're trying to build Rome in a day. You want a plan? How about we just wait for Chris Kaman NEXT SUMMER, offer him that ridiculous 6 year - 60 million deal that Nene and Tyson Chandler got, and go from there. If we want him bad enough, just offer him the MAX. At least he's the type of center that has the potential to be a 18 ppg - 20 ppg . . 10 to 12 rebounds . . and give you decent defense in the middle. BUT I'LL SAY IT AGAIN . . Why would the Clippers just let a player like that go? Nene is NOT a dominant center, and probably won't develop into one. Could he be a nice center? Yes. Bynum is NOT a dominant center, and probably won't develop into one. Could he be an adequate center? Yes. Przybilla is NOT a dominant center, and definitely won't develop into one. Prz is probably about as good as he's going to get right now. ************** Channing Frye MAY be a dominant center/power forward . . but why would the Knicks give something like that up? Chris Bosh IS a dominant big man . . and Toronto locked him up with the quickness. Amare Stoudamire IS a dominant big man . . and you see how Phoenix didn't even let the summer go by last year, before giving him his extension. **************** I say that about those guys because out of all of the "dominant" centers that have come into the league in the past 15 years, ONLY Jermaine O'Neal developed into one, after being a fringe or marginal player. If your center/big man isn't showing big time promise right out the gate, he'll probably never develop into a big time talent. He may only be a marginal player. And if that's the case, you DON'T overpay for him. You let him go, and pick up another MARGINAL player. You don't just sell off decent talent at other positions, to bring in mediocre guys at center, just for the sake of having a center. How many examples do you need on how teams completely overpay for a marginal center, then end up letting him go or flat out trading him in about 2 years? I listed 9 guys in the other thread. I didn't list guys like: - Kandiman - Tony Battie - Kelvin Cato - Shawn Bradley - Greg Oestertag - Marc Jackson LOL @ those guys. There is no "magic bullet" or solution to this. Look at the 2006 draft, and look at all of the GMs who drafted centers or power forwards. You know what that tells me? That tells me that these GMs are REFUSING to overpay for guys that have so-called upside, but haven't done ANYTHING significant in the league yet. Houston thought Stromile Swift was the solution at PF alongside Yao. LOL . . they end up trading him after one year. The cycle continues. ************ Walter, you're just going to have to be patient and hope we find a diamond in the rough at center, or we draft some kid that dipped under the radar. Either way, you're probably not going to find that "dominant 2-way guy" that you're looking for. At best, he'll be a marginal 2-way guy that we're not paying a lot of money for. But the one thing you DON'T do, is overpay for something, or give up a good player on this team, just to get one of these marginal centers. These centers are like baseball middle relief pitchers. They're relief pitchers, because they're not good enough to be starters. But you do need them and they do serve a purpose. But you DON'T pay them like a starting pitcher or a closer.

Walter, what you say is correct. But here is the problem that you and Ex are obviously not seeing. If that guy exists on a team, WHY would his current team give him up for anything? If teams are constantly searching for that offensive low post threat, that can also play defense, why in the world would that team give him up? I'll use the Theo Ratliff example again. Looking back on that Dik/Theo trade, it was obvious that Philly felt that Theo wouldn't be the guy that could take them to the next level. Dik, however, was that guy. So they gave us a "nice" offer at the time, and Babcock took it. Philly goes on the the NBA Finals, and the Hawks are stuck with a decent, but severely flawed center . . that cost a lot of money. So what do we do? We basically do the same thing with Portland, to clear 22+ million that he had invested in Reef and Theo, to bring in Wallace, to complete the transition of getting that money off the books. Portland thought they were really getting something in Theo and SAR. Hawks fans knew better. A year later, SAR is GONE. The following year, Theo is dealt. And Portland had to basically do what we did in 2003 . . destroy the team and start from scratch. The centers/power forwards that usually are the type of players that you're looking for, come OUT OF THE GATE being impact/great players. They usually don't develop 3 - 4 years down the road to be a force. That's why it's silly to trade for marginal guys who haven't shown much promise or improvement, and expect them to be the "missing piece" on your team. This board is funny. People would readily give Nene 9 million . . but would probably cringe if Smoove were offered a 5 year - 50 million contract tomorrow.

Quote: I think the whole "name seven big men who are not superstars that are worth their contract" is a bit silly, because outside of the Brand/Duncan/Bosh/Shaq/Howard group, there really aren't that many PF/C types that are good enough to justify paying much more than the MLE. However, in the starved market, every team in the league that doesn't have one of the elite group is forced to overpay (except for the Hawks, who simply don't pay...And see where that's gotten us) But we HAVE done this before. Remember Theo Ratliff? We paid top dollar for Theo's services, and were ready to ship his azz out of her by Year 3. This team progressively got worse, even though we added a defensive center and 2 all-star forwards. Theo would get his share of blocked shots. But he would routinely get abused by his man in the half court offense. He was slow on some of his rotations, which also was a big problem of his. We went from Dikembe, to Theo. In hindsight, we probably should've been content with Nazr, and just kept him here as a serviceable center who could defend a little and score a little.

Quote: YOur "task" is silly because it rules out guys who were good right away. And there is no way to really say if a player is "worth" his contract. I wouldn't say JO is worth his contract even though I like him as a player. I don't feel like looking for all the players who started off cheap and then made over $7 million. Off the top of my head I would say PJ Brown, Antonio and Dale Davis, Brad Miller would probably fall into that category. As far as GS goes just look at their shooting percentages. They are tied for last in the league as a team in fg%, shooting 43.3%. Bottom line with you guys is that it is always the same story. You say you don't want Nene, don't want Prz. But when it comes down to who you DO want, and how we could get them, it's.... *crickets* (( clapping )) It was harder than you thought wasn't it? LOL @ you didn't feel like looking for it. Sure you didn't. You're like me . . the type that likes to prove points by citing outside sources other than our own opinions. Yet, on this topic, you didn't feel like proving your point the way you normally do? OK buddy. I'm glad you at least recognized Brad Miller as being the type of guy who was a slow starter, then blossomed into a good center. But you obviously looked up what Golden St. shot as a team, which was atrocious. And they weren't a good defensive team either. Ex, it's not that I'm the type that doesn't have solutions to our problems. I'm just the type that wouldn't do anything foolish to get a marginal player at a high price tag. And I would make runs at Nene or Prz. I just wouldn't pay top dollar for those guys. One more thing about the guys you named. All 4 of them played alongside some pretty good centers or PFs, which made their stock even more valuable. But when you stand those guys alone, without adequate help, they routinely got exposed. I'd still pay what those teams paid for their services though.

Dang, I thought you would at least try to take on the task, without going into some reasoning behind giving these mediocre big men big contracts. Funny how Foyle reduces GS opponents by 7 points when he's in the game. Ex, what stats like that don't tell you, is WHEN Foyle is playing. Does GS give up 7 less ppg during stretches when he's going up against the starter, or does his presence on the floor impact the ppg nubmers when GS is getting blown out, or are playing against the 2nd team. Remember when Hawks fans were blaming everything on Ty Lue at the beginning of last season? Those were the type of numbers they were using to justify that Lue's presence on the floor was actually hurting the Hawks. Then they'd turn around and try to justify Salim getting more playing time, because the Hawks were supposedly a better team ( +/- minutes wise ) when he was on the floor. A BIG DEAL was made of that back in November and December. When you actually watch the games though, any fan could see that Salim may have impacted the game, but he was doing it when the Hawks needed to score or when we were getting blown out. They weren't necessarily a better team with Salim in the game, during crunch time or when Salim was going up against starters. Foyle's 7 ppg impacted the Warriors so much, that they've posted their 13 consecutive losing season. If Foyle was that good on the defensive end, he should be playing 30 - 35 minutes a game, and letting the other guys score. But he isn't. And there are multiple reasons as for why he doesn't get big minutes and G-State doesn't post more wins. On a team with J-Rich, Baron Davis, and Troy Murhph, you'd think that team would be a lot better, if Foyle was such a defensive presence. But they don't win. Even Murphy starts at center at times. So you're paying Foyle 8 million to be a spot defensive backup center. That's not smart money. And it goes back to making deals, just for the sake of making them. And I'm not even going to lie. At one time, I had a thought process just like you do about these marginal centers. I was even for a Foyle/Fisher trade for Harrington/Lue. Now that I look at it, that would be suicide for this team. - Jermaine O'Neal is another guy that you can add to the list of prospects, that became good/great players. - I'll even give you Antonio McDyess. Even though he's been injured a lot and has played more PF than C, he has made a good comback. So I'll even give you him. JO, Dyess, Big Ben, and Kaman. Just name 4 more Ex.

Matter of fact . . I'll lower that number to 5 million.

OK Ex. I have a task for you . . if you decide to accept it. I listed 9 prospect big men who I thought were overpaid as centers or power forwards who also play center. What I want you to do, is list at least 9 defensive prospects or good offensive big men who were given big money contracts ( 7 million or more ), and have been worth every penny or close to it. Try to exclude star centers that were great right out the gate, like Shaq, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, or Chris Bosh. Those guys were good right out the gate. The guys I listed didn't set the world on fire in their first few years in the league, but still got big momey. So list the guys who weren't all that to begin with, but went on to develop into a good player and has been worth the money. Ben Wallace is obviously one. I'll even let you have Chris Kaman, since he'll be the next center to get a ridiculous contract. So all you have to do is name 7 more guys. And list what they make please. And before you try to explain anything away, just see if you can do it.

Of course I do Ex. But I also don't want to just throw away money at every marginal big man I see either. That's exactly the kind of stuff Isaiah is doing in NY. Except he does it with guards and swingmen. The NBA is a business. And when you run a business, you have to spend your money wisely. I know ZaZa isn't the answer at center. But maybe we can find a young center or even draft a raw one, and see if he develops into that defensive presence. There's no way in hell that I believe that Nene Hilario is the missing piece that enable us to win a title. He isn't Dikembe Mutumbo. Nowhere near close to that. I'll say this about ZaZa. IF he upped his shooting % to over 50%, then he could defintely be an asset to this team. Then you could find a defensive center that didn't have to provide offense, to play in those times when you need a stop. ZaZa's problem last year, was that he just couldn't finish around the rim. Which is also the reason why he grabbed so many offensive rebounds. He was grabbing his own. I think adding Nene to this team, if healthy, could've gotten us to being a borderline playoff team. But I don't see him developing into the type of center that will bring us a title. And if that's the case, shoot, maybe even a guy like Solomon Jones could be the 15 minute defensive center we need on this team, to get us to playoff level. Diop in Dallas basically fills that role. And he only averages 15 - 20 minutes a game.

As for the Hornets probably making a run at Nene, I think that's a pretty fair assessment to make. All you have to do is look at who they drafted, to figure out what they were trying to do. They sign both Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons to bolster their frontline. If GMs around this league place value in Nene like Denver did, the Hornets would've definitely made a big time offer to get him. Which is probably why Denver decided to lock Nene up, before he was officially on the RFA market. But if he were with us, and the price to re-sign him is 9 - 10 million, that's a hell of a price to pay for just a defensive minded center that will give you limited offense. We've seen too many kids in this league that are one-dimensional big men, get ridiculous contracts. Then the team whines and complains about how much money they make, how little production they're actually getting, and how much their contract is limiting them from improving the team. Here are some big men who are currently "stealing money" in this league: - Theo Ratliff ( 11 mill + ) - Erick Dampier ( 8.6 mill ) - Adonyl Foyle ( 8 mill + with another 18 million owed to him ) - Kwame Brown ( 8 mill + ) - Tyson Chandler ( 9 mill + ) - Eddy Curry ( 8 mill + . . although Eddy can at least be a viable offensive option. Eddy at least has a chance to be worth his price tag ) - Samuel Dalembert ( 8 mill + . . good Lord, and we were supposedly hot and heavy after this kid last summer. Good thing he stayed in Philly ) - Raef LaFrentz ( almost 11 mill . . lol, that's incredible ) - Rasho Nesterovic ( 7 million + . . for a guy that has only had one year as good as ZaZa's last year ) And the one thing you should notice about this list, is that every one of these teams, with the exception of Philly and the Knicks, have ALL traded these guys after a few years of signing the big money contract. And of these guys, only Curry looks to be the guy who could be anywhere near worth the money. Damn . . the more I think about it, the more I'm glad that BK didn't pull the trigger on a Nene deal. If it was going to cost us over 7 million to re-sign the guy, then the risk is probably not worth it. Let Denver figure out that their 10 million a year center, is probably worth only 6 million.

It might, depending on what player is out there. Just like the "what if" speculations about who would offer Nene what, if the Hawks had him . . the same goes for Indy's pick next year. It's all speculation because we don't fully know what Nene will be like after his injury. And we don't know what player will be available with Indy's pick in the mid-round of 2007 . . or in 2008. Personally, I think we may not have a draft pick at all next year, because I have no confidence in that Indy team making the playoffs. When it's all said and done, they may be just as good as we are, or a notch below.

LOL . . . hilarious thread. Save this for December, when everyone can see how Nene is playing. Personally, I would've done the Nene/Watson for Al deal . . if it was legit. With all of the trade rumors going around the past 8 months about Harrington, it's hard to distinguish between fact and fiction. Having said that, I would've had a hard time paying Nene anything over 7 million per year, seeing that he was still hurt at the time. And while KB's arguments float all over the place, he does make a good point about Nene. His 10 ppg and 6 - 7 rebounds isn't necessarily earth shattering. And while he is a good defender, he's not exactly one of the top 5 defensive big men in the league. He may not even be in the top 10. So the question goes back to this? Do we bring on a bad contract for a player that may or may not help us? If healthy, I Nene would help us this year, and we probably don't have any need for Lorenzen Wright. LOL . . but I still believe that we would've went after Shelden, just to make the interior that much stronger. But if he's still gimpy and has lost a 1/2 step, a player like that could cripple us financially for years to come. He'd become the new Theo Ratliff.

Bottom line is that the players we need, their own team needs them as well, making the price to get them extremely high.

Good post Ex . . . but it kind of backs up what I've been saying. Nene is obviously a guy that Denver had in its future plans. Maybe BK already knew what Nene's asking price would be, and was not even going to touch him. I gotta give him the benefit of the doubt in knowing information that we "hardcore" fans don't know. Denver was willing to pay whatever to keep Nene a Nugget. I would've never dreamed that a guy coming off of ACL surgery and had missed almost an entire year, would get a 6 year - 60 million dollar deal. It's pretty obvious now that anything less than that wouldn't have made Nene a Hawk. So what do we do? Toss max money at him? Even if we'd offered up Harrington in some sort of sign and trade, they already have Melo at the SF. To get Nene, we'd probably have to give up Smoove plus other players/picks/Harrington, just because of his weakside defensive prowess. As far as Prz goes, I definitely like his game. But here's another situation in which the team he's already on, would probably go out of their way to keep him. They probably should've kept him when they first got him, but that's over and done with now. Those two players would definitely help us on the inside. But those are two players that we probably couldn't make a decent deal with to get.

LOL . . I went to college with Ed Gray. LOL @ those poor Tennessee teams back in the day. We had no choice but to be hardcore Lady Vol fans, because the men's team was so sorry. I knew that Ed wouldn't work out with the Hawks. His shot was erratic in college, so it definitely wasn't going to fall consistently in the pros.

OK . . I'm clear on your position now. But I ask again . . who are these players ( centers or power forwards ) that we didn't go after?