TheNorthCydeRises

That's how you make it "un-shaky". Put something in the community that everyone can come to, plus be entertained at the same time.

So when you say "run him off", do you think that Bud will resign before he gets fired?

We have no choice but to bet on Dennis. Despite losing 2 of these games, Dennis was outstanding offensively. Defense still needs a lot of work, but Wall is arguably a top 5 PG in the league, and took his game to the next level in that series. But if Dennis can play like this on more nights than not, I'll be very satisfied.

But . . but . . . he came from a championship organization. So did Woody.

That's BS that they took the triple-double away from Layshia. Who reviews a tape so hard, that they take 2 assists away? And by the way, the WNBA product is a very good one to watch these days. With the way the bigs run the floor, and the guards look to push the pace, scoring has gone way up in the WNBA over the years. The league used to be a brick fest with women shooting shots out of their range, and small guards who couldn't make layups in traffic. But now that the game is more wide open, the guards can really get out and run. Ironically though, in the half court, the WNBA resembles 1980s NBA, with the good centers in the league dominating. People who aren't pure basketball fans ( or are sexist against women's sports in general ) will always crap on the WNBA. But spending 2 hours on a lazy weekend afternoon in the summer watching it, is definitely good for us purists.

If the Hawks didn't grossly overpay for Bazemore the year before, we would've matched the Hardaway Jr offer. Had THJ played much better during the playoffs, we more than likely match the offer, even with Baze on the team. Diesel is right in that 15 - 17 million is the market value for a top 15 SG in this league. Question is if THJ is a top 15 SG? Some of the guys making less than THJ are better than him. Lou Williams and Eric Gordon are better. Some of the guys still on their rookie deals, like Zach Lavine, Devin Booker, and Gary Harris are better. I personally think that a guy like Dion Waiters was underpaid, for what he contributed to that Heat team. Most of us had Timmy pegged as a 15 mill a year player, before the playoffs. The Knicks DID overpay, but if THJ plays like he did in the 2nd half of the season, the money will have been worth it for the Knicks.

What you say is true. The key for Dennis is if he can shoot a decent percentage from the field and from 3. It would also help if others can set Dennis up with decent shots. In this "new" NBA, it's almost better for the PG to be a high scorer that shoots a decent percentage, than a high assist man. Dennis has few proven scorers around him, so he'll have to be the one that scores the basketball. I say that the Hawks need to go ahead and start Bembry over Baze at the 2, although I think the plan may be to have Bembry be the backup PG. Starting Bembry would put an extra ball handler and playmaker on the floor with him, that could make it easier for Dennis to score the basketball. While I don't think the Hawks can win more than 35 games, I'm rooting for Dennis to take that next step up into the top 10 PG list. He's really our only hope of not going into the abyss.

Just wanted to see if there was ever a PG in NBA history that averaged 21 ppg, but shot under 40% FG and under 30% from 3. My initial thought was Iverson, but I wasn't sure if he shot sub 40% in a season. ( doing search ) Interesting list. Bob Cousy ( 2x ): 1951 - 52 . . 1954 - 55 * 21.7 ppg - 36.9% FG - 6.7 asst . . ( 51 - 52 ) . . Team record: 43 - 23 * 21.2 ppg - 39.7% FG - 7.8 asst . . ( 54 - 55 ) . . Team record: 36 - 36 Allen Iverson ( 2x ): 2001 - 02 . . 2003 - 04 * 31.4 ppg - 39.8% FG - 29.1% 3FG - 5.5 asst . . . ( 01 - 02 ) . . Team Record: 43 - 39 * 26.4 ppg - 38.7% FG - 28.6% 3FG - 6.8 asst . . . ( 03 - 04 ) . . Team Record: 33 - 49 Michael Adams: 1990 - 91 * 26.5 ppg - 39.4% FG - 29.6% 3FG - 10.5 asst . . . Team Record: 20 - 62 . . . ( 1st in scoring - last in defense ) Richie Guerin: 1960 - 61 * 21.8 ppg - 39.6 FG% - 6.4 asst . . . Team Record: 21 - 58 Baron Davis: 2003 - 04 * 22.9 ppg - 39.5% FG - 32.1% 3FG - 7.5 asst . . . Team Record: 41 - 41 Other non-PGs who have done this are Jerry Stackhouse, Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, and Kobe Bryant

If this happens, the Hawks are a top 5 seed in the East.

Exactly.

Come on Diesel. You can't have it both ways. You can't criticize the young crew we have, knowing that they have almost no chance of winning anything, unless one of them turns into a superstar. Then on the other hand, you have a guy who is STILL the best player ( or one of the best 3 players ) in the league, along with a top 5 PG in Paul, and a guy in Wade who still shows flashes of being a top 20 player . . . and you still don't want that? That's literally the formula for winning a championship: ( Hall of Fame player + All-Star/Hall of Fame player + borderline All-Star player ). You go through just about every championship team, and you'll see that criteria being met. When Boston went from rags to riches in 2007, Boston added 32 year old Ray Allen and 31 year old Kevin Garnett to play with 30 year old Paul Pierce. In this scenario, people simply need to get over their dislike for Lebron James. If I can get over my dislike for Jamal Crawford, surely others could get over their dislike of Lebron. When a guy like that is on your side, you roll with him, even if it's just for 2 - 3 years.

When you talk about the Hawks 13 win season, you're simply referencing the bottom point in which we basically started from scratch. In reality, that was YEAR 6 of us missing the playoffs. The only reason why the Hawks got out of the abyss, was because of the move that Billy Knight doesn't get enough credit for . . . the Joe Johnson trade. We got Joe. who turned into something greater than all of our lottery picks. And the conditions Knight had on the pick, still enabled us to get a top 3 pick, which turned into Al Horford. A lot of people still feel that we gave up too much to get Joe. But we had to, because we were in desperation mode by then. LOL . . and we STILL had to trade for Mike Bibby, just to barely make the playoffs. Otherwise, that would've been NINE YEARS of missing the playoffs. That Clippers team you referenced, missed the playoffs the previous 10 out of 11 years before the 19 win season. Charlotte only had 1 playoff appearance in the 7 years before the rock bottom season, and missed the playoffs 8 out of 9 years before the great Al Jefferson got them back to the playoffs in 2014. Brooklyn used their lottery picks to trade for vets ( Gerald Wallace and Deron Williams ). Then they got a gift from Danny Ferry in the form of Joe Johnson, The Heat already had Dwyane Wade, Sporadic injuries + horrible chemistry problems killed that team. And they definitely decided to tank, once it was apparent that they couldn't make the playoffs. Milwaukee and OKC are great stories. OKC drafted 3 Hall of Fame players in a row ( Durant, Westbrook, and Harden ). Milwaukee acquired Jason Kidd, who changed their style of play offensively. They haven't made the leap yet, but they have a superstar to build around. ********************* But let's not forget about the current "abyss" teams - DENVER, NY KNICKS and LA LAKERS: 4 years of missing the playoffs, which is bad, but I don't consider that the "abyss". But they're definitely looking into it. Denver has a decent young core, and decided to start adding quality vets to the squad ( Millsap ). Lakers have hope in a young draft pick + cap space next season. Knicks are potentially looking at more years in the abyss, unless Porzingis turns into a superstar. - ORLANDO: 5 years and counting missing the playoffs, since the Dwight Howard departure. - DETROIT: Made the playoffs in 2016, but have missed the playoffs 7 of the last 8 years - PHOENIX: Deep in the abyss with 7 straight seasons of not making the playoffs. With the West completely stacked this year, that will extend to 8 straight seasons. - SACRAMENTO: The once proud franchise hasn't made the playoffs in 11 STRAIGHT seasons, and hasn't even won more than 35 games in that stretch. Missed lottery pick after pick. Failed attempts to bring in high quality free agents. Bad decisions on vets being brought in, At least they got a nice arena. - MINNESOTA: 13 years, no playoffs. The "Siberia" of the NBA. They have the young talent, but they made the ultimate move in adding high quality vets. Let's see if it helps them. But 13 years is a loooong time. In 5 years, fans will be wishing to get back on the treadmill. Save us Dennis Skywalker. You are our only hope.

That team beats everyone in the East, and would give us a puncher's chance vs any team in the West. Paul would be the best PG in the conference. Lebron would be the best SF in the conference. Both guys would make Collins into a better player. But most important, with Wade, you'd have 3 legit ball handlers on the floor, who also can pass the basketball. A guy like Dedmon might average 8 - 10 ppg by default,

I am our only hope. I AM THE SUPERSTARRRRRRR

Her interviews with Olivia Harlan would be must see TV. As for the Banana Boat Crew, you do that in a heartbeat. Isn't that what people say generates interest in Atlanta? Star power? Doesn't get much more "starry" than that.

And my Cincinnati Bengals could've made it to the Super Bowl, had they'd not played in the AFC. I can't live in an alternate reality. So is that the plan? Go through a couple of resets of seeing who can be the young star we can build around, but lose for an entire decade trying to do so? LOL . . and that STILL might not be enough to get Minnesota into the playoffs this year, with how stacked the Western Conference is.

Minnesota is probably the best lesson about losing. They've been in the abyss for 13 years. It took 11 years to finally get a guy who may be a transcendent talent ( KAT ), And they traded their best player ( Love ) to get a younger guy who may also be a good talent ( just not as great as people thought he'd be ). At the end of the day, even that young team had to go out and bring in some high quality vets ( Butler, Teague, Gibson ), because it takes young guys YEARS to learn how to win in this league. The best scenario for the Hawks was to probably keep a decent stable of vets around Dennis, and see if he develops into that star ( because we've seen glimpses of it in multiple playoff games the past 2 seasons. ) Now, we're doing almost a complete reset with no quality vets around to help mold the young team. It is what it is though.

Add me to the non tanker crowd, as well as KB. When I make a trip to see the Hawks play, that's a $100 - $200 investment for me round trip. I damn sure aren't going to pay that kind of money to see a horrible team, unless they're averaging 110 ppg and keeping games hella close.

How were they losing on purpose, when their best player that season was a 36 yr old Dominique? No Robinson. No Sean Elliott for 1/2 the year. Chuck Person missed the entire year too. They had a bunch of old role players on that team. And don't underestimate the loss of Robinson. He was the offensive and defensive anchor of that team in which everything revolved around. Without him ( and Dennis Rodman, who went to Chicago ), the Spurs were literally the worst team in the league, instead of a top 5 defensive team. Here's a mid February game pitting the Hawks vs the Spurs in 1998. Look at the lineup that the Spurs threw out there. LOL . . they weren't winning anything with that lineup. even if they tried their hardest. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199702150SAS.html The Spurs were 3 - 15 when Pop fired Hill. And ironically, he fired Hill on the very day that Robinson returned, and they won 3 out of 5 games, before he got hurt again. A lot of people back then thought that Pop might fire Hill after the Spurs came up short again in the playoffs. Pop wanted to be a coach anyway, and just found the right time to fire Hill. In the 90s, the Spurs were essentially what the Clippers are today. That wasn't a tank job by the Spurs. That was "we lost a top 5 player in the league plus some other important role players" job. As for Person, he had back surgery right before the start of the 1996 season, and was scheduled to be out 2 - 3 months. If Pop told him to sit out the rest of the year, it was because they were already horrible and he wouldn't be back until sometime in January anyway. As for Sean Elliott, his injury history didn't dramatically get better the following year, seeing that he only played in 36 games in Duncan's 1st season. The only time he was healthy after 1996, was in the 1998 - 99 season, in which he played the entire season + playoffs and didn't miss a game.

No. San Antonio had a series of injuries that took them from the Western Conference elite, to the bottom. David Robinson got hurt and didn't come back until mid-December, when the Spurs were already terrible. He plays about 5 - 6 games, then breaks his foot. Season over for David. And Sean Elliott only played 1/2 of the season. Nique was initially acquired by the Spurs to give them extra scoring off the bench. He ends up having to log major minutes. They had absolutely no intention to tank the 1996 - 97 season. They had just won 59 games the season before, but came up short . . again . . in the playoffs. So the Spurs won 59 games in 1996 . . . see their top 2 players go out with injury . . . end up losing 60+ games . . . get the #1 pick ( who just happens to end up being one of the top 5 PFs of all time ) . . . AND they get both of their top 2 players back the following year from injury. That's not tanking. That's being blessed. That's like a track athlete almost losing their leg in a freak car accident, taking 12 months to rehab, then winning the 100m sprint in the Olympics the following year. http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/articles/the-myth-of-the-tanking-spurs

Pistol Pete Lenny Wilkens Joe Johnson and although he only played in 17 games in 2001 - 02 as a Hawk . . . Toni Kukoc Both Mookie Blaylock and Jason Terry averaged low 17 ppg, but over 7 assists.

1) It was the obvious move, considering we'd just come off of the franchise's most successful season in Atlanta. Handling the dual role seemed to affect Bud's coaching, so I agree the right move was made to bring in a guy who can handle basketball operations. 2) At 3 yrs - 90 million, I don't know if letting Sap walk was the best thing to do, unless the plan all along was to tank this season. So Ressler may have been initially right. 3) I guess it's not needed at this point. They balked at re-signing Millsap, and didn't pay the inflated price tag for Hardaway Jr. So we'll see when and if he's willing to spend the money. To me, spending the money means that he's willing to take the team above the Salary Cap and into the Luxury Tax. 4) Bud hasn't done anything to get fired . . . yet. We'll see how cool he is with losing 55 - 60 games, if that's what ownership / GM wants. 5) Koonin, who was here before the new ownership, should probably get credit for everything marketing wise the Hawks are affiliated with. At the end of the day, I hope you're right and my pessimism is misguided. I'm betting more on Dennis to get us back to "treadmill and above" level, than anyone else in this organization.

What makes this owner legitimate, and this front office good? Just asking the question.

Only chance they have in the near future, is to somehow get the "Banana Boat" crew to come to Atlanta for a few years.

I think if you kept that team together for one more year, you'd get much better results. Bud's problem is that he is slow to adjust / adapt to things. He believes in his "system", so that's what he trusts. That's why many of us won't be surprised if Ilyasova starts at PF over Collins, which would be a straight up travesty in my eyes. They've torn down the entire team, and may be horrible for the next 3 years, even longer, if Dennis or someone else on the team doesn't develop into an All-Star talent. I'm betting that Dennis takes the leap, and refuses to tank. But if the pressure becomes too great for him, that could be a disaster for the Hawks. Let's hope he's up for the challenge, and that the Hawks are forced to shut him down with a "mysterious injury" around the All-Star break, to stay in the lottery.