TheNorthCydeRises

Melo is an elite level offensive talent that is forced to take a ton of bad shots because of the team around him. If you ever watched the dude, he hardly ever starts out a game cold. He gets it going by killing people in the post, with spot up jumpers, and by getting to the FT line. The dude would be having an MVP type of season, if his teammates were worth a damn. Melo ranks in the top 30 in the league on points per play via Isolation, Post Ups, and as the Pick and Roll "roll" man. The only thing he's not highly proficient at, that Lebron and Durant excel at, is scoring as the Pick and Roll Ball handler. As I've said before, Melo has rarely played with another All-Star type of talent that he can play off of . . or a guy who can play off of him. If Noah is successful with recruiting him to the Bulls, plus they get Rose back . . damn.

That's because the writer of the article is Bret LaGree, the former writer of the Hoopinion website that wrote about the Hawks for many years.He's a Hawks fan.

Wow.Well that ends my discussion in this thread. Now Bud is so good, that future Hall of Fame coaches couldn't have done a better job.Wow.

To get your Vick, you have to bottom out and get a top 5 pick. This is not football. This is basketball. If you don't bring in the right type of talent, you could easily turn into the Minnesota Timberwolves. They haven't made the playoffs since before Garrett left. They got their lottery superstar, but no other player is All Star worthy. So they run the "Hamster Wheel Of Hope" and wish for everything to come together. After 9 years of not making the playoffs, it hasn't. And this year may be #10. All that talk about culture doesn't mean a damn thing if you don't have multiple players who can get the job done on a nightly basis. So who do you want this off season that you think we can realistically get? Toss out some names. What do you want to see happen this offseason?

What was my first comment in this thread?That I like Bud ... but giving him an A- is being way too generous.I never had any expectation for the Hawks to be top 3 in the East ( despite us being just that for the first 35 games or so ).It's just that no one who is objectively watching this team all year, could give Bud an A-. You can give him a B, but not an A-.An A = outstanding.Bud hasn't been outstanding this year. Good? Yes.

Both Melo and Lebron got extremely hot from 3 point range, which bolstered their performances. And they I loved what Nique did, because he is right. And it was entertaining to see him back in the headlines. Of course, First Take ( namely Skip Bayless ) had to throw some shade at Nique, by saying that Nique never played defense, nor did he ever win a NBA Championship. Having said that, I hope Nique calls out the Hawks the next time they have a poor defensive performance. Nique has a habit ( during broadcasts ) of picking on particular players. I know the Hawks are crippled by injuries ( like they're the only team who has had injuries this year ), but the defensive efforts of this team at times has been ridiculous. So while Nique is right, it also a statement that can be made about the team that he watches every night.

We don't have enough cap space to make a play for Melo. If we wanted Melo, we should've made a play for him at the trade deadline. The only way Melo comes here, is if him and Wifey wants to come here . . at a discounted rate.

Who is our Paul George? Where are we going to get our Lance Stephenson? Will we even go after Stephenson during free agency this summer? Most of you guys who support the GM, are only speaking out of hope and dreams. You're not speaking in realistic terms, because the talent we now have out on the court may not even be here next year. And if they are here next year, all of them will have to significantly improve, along with us adding a 1st round pick that can contribute right away, for the Hawks to be a legit playoff team next year ( and not a playoff team that hovers around .500 ). My outlook on this team would be totally different, if we were losing like this with Schröder, Scott, Mack, Jenkins, Bebe, and Muscala all being in the rotation and getting significant minutes. We could then sing the "Young Guys are Developing" song, and see exactly which guys we could count on in the near future. But the reality is that Jenkins and Bebe are hurt. Muscala just got here. Scott and Mack look like solid role players. And Schröder is buried in a dog house far worse than what Teague, Law, and Salim were ever in. With all of this hope for the future . . - no one can name the 1 free agent that the Hawks can legitimately get ( and be willing to pay for ) - no one can say which kid we could draft in the middle of the 1st round, that would help this squad - no one wants Lou Williams - we couldn't trade Jeff Teague for a deal of the GM's liking News flash for folks: Indiana isn't going anywhere Miami isn't going anywhere Chicago isn't going anywhere Toronto, unbelievably, looks to be in better shape than we are these days, and for the future Washington has their backcourt for the future And even the dang Bobcats/Hornets are in position this summer to add a significant player ( and outbid us for his services ) Plus there's Brooklyn . . who after being 11 games under .500 on New Year's Eve . . has posted a 19 - 8 record since that time and has made it back to .500. We'll see if the GM doubles down and retains guys like Antić, Mack, and Scott . . . or if he actually goes out, does some work, and bring in another starter quality player to this team. No one in this organization deserves an A grade for anything they've done this year. That doesn't mean that they've been terrible. But an A grade means they have been stellar. No one has been stellar this season, especially on the bench and in the front office. Fans are patting players on the back and giving Bud and the GM praise, like they're a Little League team or something (( clapping )) - "Good job guys . . . good effort guys . . . we'l get them next time . . we'll get that player you wanted next time . . good job . . . I'm so proud of you, even if you're losing at a 2006 level".

Because the Hawks wouldn't be able to take a game in Indy. For some reason, we have some psychological hold over the Pacers when we play in Philips. But on the road, we don't have a star that is mentally tough enough and talented enough to carry us to victory. And honestly, this was the case even when Horford was healthy. And it was the M.O. of the Joe Johnson Hawk teams during their 5 year run. JJ did do it a few times. But most of the time, he was a bust on the road during the playoffs. And the Hawks paid for it with double digit losses. Right now, Paul George is at the point in his development in which he can end games out on the road. He plays much better on the road, than he does at home. Last year's Pacers team was a very good home team, but barely under .500 on the road. This year's Pacers team is a dominant home team, and wins 63% of their games on the road ( 17 - 10 so far this season ). There is a very dangerous belief amongst our fan base that we can compete against the elite level teams, with mid-level talent . . . if they are coached right and believe in the "system". Nah man. You need talent in this league. Phoenix is a real nice story this year. But as of right now, they're currently the 8th seed. If they have to play OKC or San Antonio in the 1st round of the playoffs, they'll be lucky to take one game. And that's because they are not a sound defensive team, nor a team that has that "guy" who can carry the team when role players in the "system" start to sell the Suns out. And that's the same thing that would've happened to the Hawks in this year's playoffs, if they had to face Miami or Indy. Even with a healthy Horford, you'd have to count on guys like Korver, Scott, and Mack to give you major contributions on a nightly basis. And that's because guys like Horford or Millsap can't "flip the switch" and put up a superstar like game in a playoff situation.

LOL . . . just proof that people have short memories. The search feature on this site is outstanding.

I just think that people are going far out of their way to give Bud and others high praise for anything they do, regardless if it leads to success on the court or not.It saddens me to see the passion leave some of you fans. Ownership probably loves it though, because people won't hold them accountable for anything for a while.

Coaches that deserve an A grade this year:Jeff Hornacek - PhoenixTerry Stots - PortlandTom Thibodeau - ChicagoDwane Casey - Toronto

I like Bud. But giving him an A- is grading on an extreme curve. We have lost 11 of our last 12 games, with our lone win coming vs the NY Knicks, a team that has lost 12 of their last 14 games. Even with all of the injuries, a legit NBA team will at least catch a bad or a mediocre team on an off night, and get a win. There's no way you can give any player, coach, or executive in this organization a grade higher than a B, considering that the team is losing at an almost historic rate for this franchise. The 2006 - 07 Hawks had lost 12 of 13 games between December and early January The 2005 - 06 Hawks lost 16 of their first 18 games . . including their first 9 games of the season The 2004 - 05 historically bad Hawks lost 32 of their last 35 games of the season. You can't give high praise to mediocrity. I bet Bud wouldn't give himself an A-. He expects far more of himself and of his team.

(a) - I thought people didn't care about the season and want us to tank? And the play of the entire team ( for the most part ) has gone downhill since late January. So I don't know why all of the focus is on Teague all of a sudden. I don't think anybody is celebrating his play in February. But it's possible that he simply had a bad month, and will get it back on track in March. I was a BIG TIME skeptic of Teague in those first 2 years. But I've accepted him to be what he is . . a score first PG who has improved his court vision somewhat. I never expected him to improve his shot, because his release is too low. If it makes everybody feel better, he's averaging 27.3 ppg - 6 asst - 3.5 rebs . . is shooting 58% FG . . and averaging almost 7 FTA in his last 4 games. So maybe the dude just had a bad month, like the rest of the team. (b) - IF you have a problem with what Teague received, blame the GM. Also blame him for not being able to pull off a deal to bring in an asset in replace of Teague. Also blame him if our young future PG from Germany can't even get out on the court, to prove that he can replace Teague. All I can say is that the entire team was better when Horford was on the floor with them. But I don't expect Teague to prove that he can be Tony Parker 2.0 anytime soon. He is what he is. © - Well . . . Josh WAS the issue last year. Josh was the guy who wouldn't pass the ball to Teague after getting a rebound, and take the ball up the court himself. Josh was the guy who can't make open shots, to improve Teague's assist numbers off spot up shooting jumpshots. Josh wasn't the entire problem, just a piece of the problem. In the end though, Teague has to grow into a man, and take control of the team himself. (d) - Overall, he does deserve praise. If Bud can get praise for his coaching, despite this team playing at 2004 levels, Teague can get praise too. Everybody seems to be getting praise, but Teague. Why the bull's eye is just on him, and not on everybody else on the team ( and in the front office ), is beyond me. If you're going to shoot Teague, you gotta take out everybody else.

Just looking at a few other teams MIAMI Won - Loss Profiles Lebron: 40 - 4 Wade: 27 - 10 Chalmers: 20 - 19 Bosh: 15 - 24 Allen: 14 - 17 The Heat are 13 - 2 when Bosh wins his matchup. But one of the casualties of having Lebron and Wade on your team, is that you don't have a chance to put up big numbers on a nightly basis. And since he's kind of soft defensively, other players will outwork Bosh on occasion. But we all know what makes the Heat go. When Lebron has only lost 4 matchups all year, and dominated most of those matchups, they're hard to beat. (( NOTE: One of those losses came vs Millsap, who played a very high level game vs Lebron )) Indiana Win - Loss profile George: 41 - 10 Stephenson: 35 - 11 West: 28 - 19 Hibbert: 18 - 22 Hill: 14 - 26 Hibbert winning his matchup is of little consequence when it comes to the Pacers winning games. They're 16 - 2 when he wins his matchup, and 20 - 2 when he loses his matchup. With a borderline superstar on his team in George, and 2 other guys who can score and defend in Stephenson and West, it's not imperative for Hibbert to win that individual matchup. All he has to do is play his role. However, If George were to go down, I don't know if Hibbert could flip the script and elevate his game offensively. Charlotte Win - Loss profile Walker: 26 - 21 Jefferson: 21 - 16 Henderson: 19 - 25 McRoberts: 19 - 27 Kidd Gilchrist: 8 - 10 Tolliver: 1 - 17 This is what happens when you have a guy coming off the bench ( or starting ) that has to play a lot of minutes, but is giving you very little on offense and defense. Charlotte was kind of desperate for any kind of player when MKG went down. But unlike MKG, Tolliver ( as we know ) can't stop anybody . . and he's streaky offensively. Chicago Win - Loss profile Noah: 31 - 14 Butler: 23 - 11 Dunleavy: 20 - 15 Boozer: 17 - 16 Gibson: 17 - 19 Hinrich: 10 - 24 Noah has gone into straight BEAST MODE since Jan 1st. He's 20 - 2 vs opposing centers since then, only losing to Pau Gasol and Al Jefferson . . . but the Bulls still won both of those games. Noah has turned into a Point Center, while also still being the defensive anchor for the Bulls. With the Bulls though, the barometer is usually Mike Dunleavy. If he's shooting the ball well and outproducing his man, the Bulls win. But if he has games like he did tonight, they normally lose. So let's review Atlanta one more time, without Horford Teague: 28 - 19 Millsap: 24 - 22 Carroll: 15 - 21 Korver: 15 - 23 Mack: 6 - 4 Williams: 6 - 12 Even during this losing streak, Teague was one of the few guys who could elevate his game to outplay his opponent. When a guy goes off like he did in Phoenix, but the team still loses, you have to look at other people and ask why can't they consistently elevate their games, or even play above their heads every once in a while?

That's cool if you don't buy the numbers. But it tells exactly what is going on, not only with individual players, but with the team as a whole. The NET Rating is good when you want to compare players to other players. No problem with that stat, if used in the right context. But even that stat isn't an "end all, be all", like most stats aren't. Amongst guards, it has Andre Iguodala listed as #1 . . over #2 Paul George. More concerning, is that Mario Chalmers ( due to his stellar defensive rating ), is rated over Chris Paul. Matter of fact, here are how the PGs look Chalmers - 10.5 Hill - 10.1 Paul - 10.0 R. Jackson - 10.0 Beverly - 9.2 Curry - 8.9 Dragic - 7.4 Rubio - 6.3 Lillard - 6.0 Parker - 5.5 So are you trying to tell me that you're hanging your hat on a stat that has George Hill listed above Chris Paul, Tony Parker, and Stephen Curry? I KNOW that Teague is closer to an average PG ( in a very heavy PG league ). And that's my point. Why is the blame being placed on an "average PG" and expecting him to play at an elite level, instead of just accepting what Teague is? A good scoring PG on most nights, that can distribute the basketball. The Win - Loss profiles cited on hoopsstats.com are simply showing who is winning the individual matchup on a game by game basis. More important, it shows what the team does when he wins or loses his "matchup". Let's look at the Blazers top 6 players in the same way I did the Hawks. The Blazers rely heavily on their starters + Mo Williams, so they're the most likely players to log 25+ minutes. I'll do the basic Win-Loss Matchups Aldridge: 35 - 12 Batum: 30 - 19 Matthews: 25 - 24 Lilliard: 23 - 27 Lopez: 18 - 26 Mo Williams: 6 - 13 This doesn't mean that Lillard is a bad PG. What it MAY mean though, is that either a high level of production isn't needed on a nightly basis in order for the Blazers to win games, because they have other guys who can have big games . . ( which is true ). Or it may mean that Lillard is weak defensively, and let's other PGs abuse him on occasion . . ( which is also true ). Take Lillard's last matchup that he lost, against Utah's Trey Burke. He actually had a good looking game ( 28 pts - 7 asst ). But he brought his efficiency number down by shooting 11 - 28 FG. Burke, on the other hand, had a very good all around game ( 21 pts - 7 asst - 6 rebs ), and shot 8 - 16 FG including 3 - 5 from deep. Despite Lillard losing the efficiency battle vs Burke, the Blazers still won the game due to Lopez's monster 33 point game. The key to the success of the Blazers, is that they have 4 guys who can win their matchup at least 40% of the time every night, sometimes by huge margins. Their top 4 guys have already won 20 matchups, with Lopez about to join that club. When you're playing high minutes, you have to outwork your opponent. Contrast that with the Hawks, who would only see Teague, Millsap, and Horford ( if healthy ) do this feat. With no Horford in the mix, it puts that much more pressure on Teague and Millsap to consistently win their matcup ( sometimes by a big margin ), because no one else on the team can consistently do it. This is why all of the negativity that is being heaped on Teague is unjustified. People are asking him to play at an elite level, when they KNOW that he is not an elite level PG. Meanwhile, others on the team run hot and cold, play piss poor defense, leave people wide open in transition, and never get called out on it. Carroll is at least trying to step up on a consistent basis. Can't say the same for others though. Here are the Win - Loss profiles of our main guys since Feb 1st: Mack: 3 - 1 Carroll: 5 - 4 Teague: 5 - 5 Millsap: 4 - 5 Brand: 2 - 4 Scott: 1 - 3 Williams: 3 - 7 Korver: 2 - 7 But people want to crap all over Teague? You better look at other guys as well.

Wow . . . you guys give the GM every benefit of the doubt. It's all good though. Somebody has to stay positive around here, before reality smacks all of us in the face.

The stars were aligned though. We played an extremely weak schedule in Nov and Dec . . . a bottom 5 schedule. January was supposed to be brutal, but we actually survived January. But we had been having problems on the road all year. So when February comes around, and we stopped playing a ton of .500 and below teams, they started to struggle. And the injuries just caused the bottom to fall out. And unfortunately for the Hawks, the schedule really doesn't ease up until April.

The following is from hoopsstats.com It's simply a look at our main rotation players ( including the injured Horford ), and the production they provide . . vs the guy they are going up against. If they outproduce the guy, they get a "win". If they don't, they get a "loss". If both have the same efficiency number, they get a "draw" or tie. To qualify for a win, loss. or draw, a player has to have played 25 or more minutes in a game. It is based off of the NBA Efficiency statistic, which is a basic measure of production. Teague's numbers will be highlighted in RED Basic Wins/Loss Matchup Record for Each Player Horford: 16 - 10 . . . ( .615 ) Mack: 6 - 4 . . . ( .600 ) Teague: 28 - 19 . . . ( .596 ) Millsap: 24 - 22 . . . ( .522 ) Carroll: 15 - 21 . . . ( .417 ) Korver: 15 - 23 . . . ( .394 ) Williams: 6 - 12 . . . ( .333 ) Scott: 2 - 6 . . . ( .333 ) Team Record When Player Wins Matchup Korver: won 15 matchups . . 11 - 4 . . . ( .733 ) Horford: won 16 matchups . . 11 - 5 . . . ( .688 ) Millsap: won 24 matchups . . . 16 - 8 . . . ( .667 ) Carroll: won 15 matchups . . . . 9 - 6 . . . ( .600 ) Teague: won 28 matchups . . 16 - 12 . . . ( .571 ) Scott: won 2 matchups . . . . . . 1 - 1 . . . ( .500 ) Mack: won 6 matchups . . . . . . 2 - 4 . . . ( .333 ) Williams won 6 matchups . . . .2 - 4 . . . ( .333 ) Team Record When Player Loses Matchup Williams: lost 12 matchups . . . 1 - 11 . . ( .083 ) Scott: lost 6 matchups . . . . . . .1 - 5 . . . ( .167 ) Mack: lost 4 matchups . . . . . . 1 - 3 . . . ( .250 ) Teague: lost 19 matchups . . . . 5 - 14 . . ( .263 ) Korver: lost 23 matchups . . . . . 7 - 16 . . . ( .304 ) Millsap: lost 22 matchups . . . . . 7 - 15 . . . ( .318 ) Horford: lost 10 matchups . . . . .4 - 6 . . . ( .400 ) Carroll: lost 21 matchups . . . . . 9 - 12 . . . ( .429 ) Games In Which Player Played Even in Matchup Korver: 15 Carroll: 8 Millsap: 7 Horford: 2 Scott: 2 Mack: 1 Teague: 1 Williams: 0 Wins/Total Games Matchup Record . . ( when playing 25+ minutes ) Teague: 28 wins / 48 total games . . . ( .583 ) Mack: 6 wins / 11 total games . . . . . . ( .545 ) Horford: 16 wins / 30 total games . . . ( .533 ) Millsap: 24 wins / 53 total games . . . ( .453 ) Carroll: 15 wins / 44 total games . . . ( .341 ) Williams: 6 wins / 18 total games . . . ( .333 ) Korver: 15 wins / 53 total games . . . . ( .283 ) Scott: 2 wins / 10 total games . . . . . . ( .200 ) People continue to worry about Teague's play, when they should be looking at some other people. The only thing that Teague has proven since Horford went down, is that maybe he isn't able to take on the responsibility of a #1 type of scorer. And that's what some of you want him to be . . . a guy who can play like a #1 option. He can't do it. He isn't Tony Parker. But what he does, is consistently outplay his opponent on most nights, unlike some of the other guys on this team ( who get a complete pass ). They get a pass because fans have little expectations for that player. But for Teague, people want him playing like a star. People should be happy with that dude averaging 16 ppg and 7 assists. Those are numbers we haven't seen out of a PG since the days of Mookie Blaylock. Can he play better? Yes. But so can a whole lot of other people. There are people on this team ( and in the front office ) that fans simply refuse to hold accountable for their play on the court ( or in their decision making off the court ). They'd rather target and dog Teague, than to cite the REAL PROBLEMS with this team.

We're enduring one of our worst stretches of basketball in 10 years. Bud is a good coach. But Bud is also somewhat culpable in how bad we're playing right now.If he is to get credit for how hard we fight on offense, he has to get some of the blame for how we lay down on defense.

Your last paragraph addresses the real issue. If Teague and Korver are essentially liabilities on defense, who do you bring in to send one or both to the bench. Or maybe a better scenario, do you trade one or both of them to upgrade the PG & SG position.

You guys keep talking about a "stealth tank." We're just a horrifically bad defensive team right now. If Bud was trying to tank, Dennis would be playing 20 min a night.What REALLY needs to be addressed ( starting this summer for most of you ), is if Ferry can really construct the right type of team from top to bottom.Because the reality is that even before the injuries, we were a barely over .500 team that had played a bottom 5 schedule at that point. Now that the schedule has toughened, and our 2 stars are out with injuries, it really exposes us.Unfortunately, I'm seeing a team these days that can't even compete on a defensive level, especially out on the perimeter.It will be very interesting to see what Ferry does to address our defensive issues.

LOL . . I mean, let's just keep it real around here. Against those 5 teams, the Hawks are 4 - 8 vs those teams. 4 - 1 before the Horford injury. 0 - 7 after the Horford injury.

JTB . . . this is like the Will Smith movie "I, Robot". You are correct in your skepticism of the GM. And you're close in understanding the true answer to your question. Keep searching, and the answer will be revealed to you in due time.

. . . and the Bulls . . . and the Wizards . . . and the Raptors . . . and the Bobcats . . . and the Nets