TheNorthCydeRises

- Correct. With JJ still here, there's no way we could make a play for Dwight or Chris Paul. Which is why you try to flip JJ for either a disgruntled "star" level player on another team, or for a team that actually wants JJ, and are willing to give us a few useful assets for him. My thing is that Ferry didn't even legitimately try to get the best deal. He simply took the deal to get him out of here. That's fine. But when you do that, you get what you get.. - A max player isn't going to knock on the door of the ASG . . . and that's kind of the overall point in going after someone else. Dwight wasn't going to say . . . "Ooooooo . . they got Danny Ferry as GM. Let me go play for him, because he's a GM with multiple championships." - And Chris Paul DEFINITELY was never coming here. The only possibility was if he came with Dwight. But without Dwight, there was no shot in him coming. Both of those guys simply played us for better leverage on contracts, and on the places they wanted to go. - The fact isn't if JJ could live up to his contract. We know he couldn't. But we could've gotten more value from trading him, than what we received. All we've received up to this point, is cap space, and some pipe dream of Brooklyn being a non-playoff team, so that we can swap picks with them.

JayBird . . I think the difference between those of us who criticize Ferry, and those of you who support him, is that I believe the supporters believe that Ferry has done the best job he can possibly do up until this point. That every move he's made so far as been the right move. Meanwhile, the critics say that he could've done something different, or even more significant. That's when the supporters shoot down any and every scenario that contradicts what Ferry has done so far. I think the Bucks offered that garbage for Josh, because they saw Ferry flat out ACCEPT garbage for JJ.

So what are our options? If he's incapable of elevating his level of play, what are our options?

I want him to be more aggressive in trying to get himself open and to score the basketball. His shot attempts have gone down slightly in January, to 8.3 a game this month. Last night's 3 shot performance didn't help that attempt average. His rebounding and assists are up by 1 in each category, while his ppg averages are down by a full 3 points. Sometimes I think he looks entirely too much for his 3 point shot, instead of simply working for where the open spaces on the court are. That in itself will limit his touches. For him, a 21 foot long 2 is a good shot, especially if that means he's not going to shoot the ball at all. We simply need more production out of a guy who is taking up 35 minutes a night. I want to see him try to assert himself tonight to score the basketball, and not just float around the 3 point line waiting for a pass. If we can't ask him to do more, why are we paying him like he's the 3rd best player on the team?

I'll take a crack at this. How about NOT chasing after Dwight Howard ( especially after Chris Paul said that he'd re-sign with the Clippers ), and go instead after Al Jefferson and Andre Iguodala? How about holding onto JJ the year before, and trying to get the BEST possible deal out of it, instead of coming right in and trading JJ off for useless players? How about making a commitment to target an upgrade at PG or C, which we've needed for 1,000 years now, so that we could move Horford to PF. How about actually trading the draft picks ( Bebe and Dennis ) for a player that could help us right now ( if they had no intentions on "tanking" )? Ferry had options. He's simply playing everything safe. I mean, how disasterous would it had been if Josh actually ACCEPTED the 3 yr - 45 million extension that FERRY offered him before last season? Ferry was convinced that JOSH was his guy, not Horford. http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2013/4/14/4223096/josh-smith-nba-free-agency-atlanta-hawks

EXACTLY!! I agree 100%. He's definitely taking the middle road, and always using the words "competing" to try to cover up what he's doing. Hell, we've "competed" for the past 6 years. Competing wasn't the issue. Getting to that next level is the issue. God knows I'm not in the "tank crew". I was one of the ones that wanted to use that cap space to build the best team possible. But when I saw that the first move we did, was to sign Korver to that long contract, I said "Oh Lord . . WTF is this?" That CAN'T be your first free agent signing, when you have 30+ million in cap space. It just can't. And when Bebe wasn't brought to the team, it meant that not only was he not ready, he wouldn't be developed here ( at least in the D-League ), which also makes no sense. Although I'm against tanking, if we DID decide to "tank", and simply played a lot of young guys, I could tolerate the losing and/or mediocrity. But it's like Ferry and Bud are trying to play like how the Spurs played whenever they rested Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli. Well, the difference is that we don't have those 3 to put right back into the lineup after a few games of rest. We actually need to develop people. So here's what we have here. - We're trying to win games, despite Ferry not going out to assemble the best squad possible . - Our young guys aren't being developed at all, because one is stuck on the bench, and one is overseas - We're not going to have enough cap space this summer to make a significant splash for a player, which means more contracts to mid-level type players - And we're not getting a 1st round pick that will be in the lottery And when you combine all of this, to what came out in that Forbes article about the Hawks finances, I'm starting to believe that the ACTUAL PLAN, is to assemble a team that will consistently stay below salary cap level, and simply make the playoffs with that squad, regardless of the talent on the team. Every year is monumental and I absolutely think Ferry took the easy path last off-season. No risks, no bold move, just a lateral move that has us at a mediocre status quo. Couldn't agree more man. People think selling off JJ was a "bold move". There's nothing "bold" about selling a decent player for pieces of garbage, just to save money.

No ma'am. It's like asking JJ Redick to step up in the absence of Chris Paul . . . or Chris Copeland ( last year with the Knicks ) to step up when Melo was out . . or Mike Dunleavy to step up in the absence of Derrick Rose. Korver is averaging more minutes per game than any player on the team. Horford going down should not have that dramatic of an effect on his game. He's played with much worse players and much worse lineups in the past. I'm not asking him to shoot above 50% from the field and from 3 point range, like he was doing before Horford got hurt. I'm just asking him to do more than what he's doing right now. If he can't do it, why in the world did we pay him 6 mill a year . . and for 4 years?

Exactly.

Chris Paul goes down on January 3rd. JJ Redick, who was hurt himself, comes back on January 10th The current PG for the Clips is Darren Collison, a good PG just below Teague's level. Here are JJ's numbers since he came back 17.9 ppg 46% FG 39% 3FG Most important, he's taking 13 shots a game. JJ's salary this year: 6.3 million . . . . 400K less than Korver. So please save me the PG excuse. People said that the Hawks paid so much for Korver, because the going rate for "shooters" was set by JJ Redick. Well . . . JJ has elevated his game when the superstar PG went down. Is asking Korver to do at least 50% of what JJ is doing these days, an unrealistic thing?

Other people have gotten wide open shots and have improved their games with Horford gone. Why can't Kyle? The others are correct when they list his limited capabilities. If that's the case, you really have to ask why we are paying him 6.7 million this year, and 24 million over the life of the contract? But people want to praise Ferry as a great GM?

That trade landed us a 6 time All-Star and one of the top 10 ( arguably top 7 ) best players in franchise history. It's actually Phoenix who should be scrutinized, seeing that they picked Rajon Rondo with a low 1st round pick, but traded him for another 1st round pick the next season, simply to save money. The failure wasn't the JJ trade, it was not selecting the right PG in the same year. Knight's trade for JJ was a necessary and quite shrewd move. And LOL @ JJ being traded by Ferry as being a "miracle trade". JJ can and would be traded at any time during that contract, to one of the high dollar teams that felt they could use his services. Had we held onto JJ last season, we possibly could've flipped him for Pau Gasol, when the Lakers were having all of their problems last year. But Ferry took the easy way out . . . sell JJ for 5 dead roaches, and a chance to swap with Brooklyn ( if they get 1000 people hurt ). Ferry hasn't done anything groundbreaking in ATL. You can even say that he got coach Bud ONLY because he had ties to the Spurs. If not for that connect, whose to say that Quin Snyder or Mike Brown wouldn't be coaching the Hawks right now? Let's save the Ferry coronation until AFTER this team does something even remotely significant.

A "great draft" would mean that those guys would be rotational players right now, not rotting on the bench or rotting over in Spain. The jury is definitely out on that draft too. Truth be told, as of this point, Ferry's best draft pick . . . is the 2nd round pick Mike Scott. All 3 of his 1st round picks are non-factors at this moment.

Fact: Since Ferry has taken over, the Hawks are no better than the Joe Johnson era Hawks. Of course, this is only Year 2, but this is why it is ridiculous to call Ferry the best GM of all time for the Hawks. It's a complete slap in the face to past GMs who have made moves to improve the team, and acquired players to help us win games. Honestly, all Ferry has done, is what BK did in his first few years as Hawks GM. He broke a less than mediocre team down, then built them back up. The Joe Johnson trade ( as of right now ), is simply a trade to free up cap space. And look what we did with that cap space . . . virtually nothing ( up to this point ). We have to wish for Brooklyn to fail miserably, just to swap and possibly get a lottery pick. We lost Josh Smith, and used his spot for Paul Millsap. He's an offensive upgrade for sure. But calling a GM "the greatest in franchise history", when his teams have done nothing, is stretching it a bit.

And losing to the Spurs like we did doesn't bother me at all. The Spurs are a well-oiled machine that can get it done against anybody. The facts are though, other teams have had people hurt throughout the year. We simply need other people on the team to step their games up . . starting with Kyle Korver.

If they mean that much to the team, it's an indictment to the squad Ferry has assembled here so far. No way should a backup C and a journeyman SF mean that much to team chemistry.

With everybody dogging Teague and getting down on Lou, the guy who is escaping any type of criticism, is Kyle Korver. But the fact is that since Horford went down, he's probably been the player most affected by his absence in the lineup. My thing is this. Ferry gave Kyle a 4 year - 24 million dollar deal to be the sniper on the team. Some fans thought Ferry grossly overpaid for Kyle's services. As long as the lineup stayed healthy, Kyle was great in his role. But now that people are starting to get hurt, Kyle has shown an inability to raise his game to the next level. I like the streak, because it's a great feat. But on the flip side, I could give a damn about that streak if it means that Korver is now going to start being a JR Smith like shooter from 3 point range. And that is made even worse because Korver can't create his shot from 3, like JR can ( even if JR takes horrific shots ). Korver's numbers before and after the Horford injury are pretty dramatic. BH ( Before Horford got hurt ): 13.1 ppg 4.0 rebs 2.6 asst 51.6% FG 50.7% 3FG AH ( After Horford got hurt ): 9.7 ppg 4.6 rebs 3.8 asst 39.1% FG 34.8% 3FG Honestly, you would think that with a main offensive cog out of the lineup, that the games of other people would start to step up. But the only guys showing any type of uptick in Horford's absence, are Millsap, Mike Scott, and Pero Antić. Korver has dropped off dramatically. Kyle, now is not the time to shrink. And the streak may start to get old, if all you're doing is making 3 - 9 FG, while going 2 - 8 from 3 point range. That does not help this team. If a guy like Mirza Teletovic can go for 37 points, and Chandler Parsons can have huge games, surely we can ask you for an occasional 20 point game here and here, right? You're the 6 Million Dollar Man. Use some of that bionic strength and start stepping up.

Dol . . that's a pipe dream to bank on those guys. Bebe has knee problems. Jenkins has back problems. Poor Dennis can't even crack the rotation, after being basically handed the backup PG spot. Mack is solid, but won't be much more than what he is right now. Mike Scott is a pure scorer . . in the mold of an Al Harrington. He's Al Harrington at best. None of those guys have any chance of being "that guy". We have to acquire "that guy" by at least next summer, or we may be forced to bust the entire team down anyway. I'm of the belief that Horford isn't going to stick around here if this team hasn't significantly improved. And especially if we're still forcing him to play center for most of his minutes.

(( clap . . . clap . . . clap )) As I tell people on here and especially on other sites, the rest of the league isn't going to wait for the Hawks to decide what they want to do in the future. They're making their future moves NOW. Acting like the Hawks can build a winner with a bunch of 5 - 8 million a year type players, is wishful thinking. We have to find a franchise changing player somehow, some way. I'm definitely as close to anti-Ferry as they come, because I think he simply straddles the fence. I would almost bet that as the trade deadline approaches, he will not make a move. He'll MIGHT try to move a guy like Lou Williams, but with the way Lou is playing these days, he may not get much for him. So instead of trading someone else, he'll hold onto them. That Forbes article really tells the story about our franchise. I think the real goal is to simply keep this franchise at playoff level, no matter if it's the top seed . . or the 8th seed. Making the playoffs and getting a little extra money, is all that matters. It would take for this squad to completely fall apart, for them to consider trading some of the major assets we have.

LOL @ Dol . . . come on man. Jefferson was a key element in that trade. They HAD to give Minny SOMETHING, in order to get KG to Boston. This wasn't a Joe Johnson situation, in which Minnesota was willing to accept 5 dead flies and a swapped draft pick in exchange for trading KG. They wanted an asset. The only problem with Jefferson, is that while he is a very good offensive player, he isn't an "engine" type of a player. We all know what we need around here. And it will probably take a trade of 2 of our top 3 players to get it . . or at least a trade of 1 of our top 2. That's just reality right there.

Damn . . I'm slowly but surely becoming Hotlanta. I'm just not willing to give overall mediocrity any type of praise. I'll praise them on a game by game basis.

It's amazing how low expectations can make mediocrity seem like a great thing. Past records at the midpoint 2008: 19 - 22 2009: 25 - 16 2010: 27 - 14 2011: 26 - 15 2012: 19 - 14 ( strike season . . . equal to 24 - 17 in an 82 game season ) 2013: 23 - 18 2014: 22 - 19 So we're 1 game behind last year's pace . . . and has posted the 2nd worst record at the midpoint in the past 7 years . . but Bud and this team gets an A? (( Chris Carter )) . . . Come on man. We're NOT in tank mode. We supposedly upgraded in a coach. We supposedly upgraded at PF by getting Millsap over Josh Smith But people are happy and proud of this team right now? They're playing great basketball at home, and horrible inconsistent basketball on the road. My expectations of them were for them to be around .500 . . . and that's exactly where they are. Any team with Horford, Millsap, and Teague, with Korver as a complimentary shooter, are going to win games and not be horrible. But that also means that they're going to be about as average as ever. If you took a 10 game snapshot of this team, with one more game added to the last set of 10, this is how we have fared 6 - 4 4 - 6 7 - 3 5 - 6 We're an average team, that can hang with and beat anybody at home . . . but can also lose to anybody on the road. That's average folks. Nothing to celebrate, or be real down on. LOL . . it's like fans have forgotten how well this team used to play at times, and just want to find any reason to give this team high praise.

No way can we wait 3 years. It has to be done before then. We could easily be without both Paul Millsap and Al Horford in 3 years. One very good win over Miami doesn't mean that this team is headed in the right direction. Once the playoffs get here, everyone is going to expect at least a 1st round win. God forbid if we lose a series to a team like Charlotte or Washington. Things won't be very good around here.

I'm surprised that not many of them made a huge deal about Wade not playing. I guess they knew that would be stupid, seeing that we're without Horford. Nice to see them give us credit for once. NOW . . . we need to sustain this when we go on the road vs Orlando.

Take this a step further. If you're the creator of that logo, let's see how it would look on a mock T-Shirt and a jersey. I personally like it too. I have on a white hoodie right now with our company name on it. I could see that logo on a white hoodie, and would definitely buy it. That would be a real good center court logo too.

LOL . . this is true. Although it has to be noted that all 5 of those teams made the playoffs last year, and 2 of them have won 3 of the last 6 NBA Titles.