TheNorthCydeRises

http://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/ If the financial woes of the franchise haven't been highlighted enough, Forbes latest look at The Business of Basketball drives home the potential disadvantage we may have in building this team for the future. The numbers are not good. The list cites 5 categories that shows what the current state of NBA franchises are right now. - Current Value - 1 yr % Change in Value - Debt/Value % - Revenue - Operating Income So let's look at where the Hawks rank in each category. CURRENT VALUE - 27th Our current value stands at 425 million, which is just ahead of New Orleans Pelicans, Charlotte Bobcats, and Milwaukee Bucks. Honestly, this is disturbing as hell. Atlanta is NOT a small market franchise, yet, they have a value comparable to a small market. This tells me that the Hawks may not go anywhere near the Luxury Tax anytime soon. And that means that Ferry will continue to scour for "Diamond in the Rough" type players like a Demarre Carroll and Shelvin Mack, to see if the Hawks can get the most out of them. And it's also an indication of how much the team is actually taking in. We'll get to that later. Top 3 Value teams: NY Knicks, LA Lakers, Chicago Bulls . . . no surprise there. 1-Yr VALUE CHANGE % - 5th With a 34% increase in value, the Hawks are tied for 5th with the LA Clippers. I think this is directly due to the new CBA, and somewhat pointing to the departure of the Joe Johnson contracts falling off the books, while also not re-signing Josh Smith. When you sort this column, no team in the NBA saw a decline in value, and most teams' value increased by at least 20%. The Hawks were one of 8 teams that saw at least a 30% increase in value. But that list is curious. Brooklyn ( by no surprise ) is #1, with a 47% change in value, while the Milwaukee Bucks and Charlotte Bobcats both saw a 30% change in value. With Brooklyn, their increase in value has to do with them moving into a new location and arena, while Charlotte and Milwaukee may be beneficiaries of the new CBA. I think the Hawks may be in this group. The main article cites that collectively, the low revenue teams took in 120 million. This year, an estimated 200 million is expected to be distributed to those teams, which will probably include us. Top 3 in Value Change: Brooklyn, Houston, and Golden State DEBT/VALUE % - 30th Not quite sure how to read this, but I think this is VERY BAD. Our Debt/Value % is at 55%. When I sort this list in descending order, all of the high revenue and high value teams are at the bottom, with Debt/Value %'s of under 10%. But the top ( or bottom ) 5 in Debt/Value % are: - Atlanta: 55% - Sacramento: 43% . . ( which alarms me, seeing all the troubles they had the past 2 years ) - Detroit: 41% - Memphis: 39% - Cleveland: 39% So this has to be a very bad number concerning the Hawks. Maybe Hawksfanatic can shed some light on this to whether this is a bad number, and why it is so bad? Top 3 in Debt/Value % - New York, LA Clippers, and Denver REVENUE - 24th With 119 million in revenue, the Hawks rank 24th . . no surprise here. We've been talking about this for years on this site. The inability for our franchise to draw more people to the arena is a killer, when it comes to revenue. Cite whatever reasons you want: - Lack of a superstar - Transients from all over the country who could care less about the Hawks - Traffic - Apathetic current or former Hawk fans who live and/or are from the Metro Atlanta area. - Lack of a strong core Hawk fan base - Ownership - Poor marketing - Lack of heavy corporate support . . . or whatever you want to add to this list. The fact remains that the Hawks draw like a small market team at the box office. It's sad too, seeing that there are 5 million people in the Metro area, and Atlanta is the undisputed hub of the Southeast. Top 3 Revenue teams - LA Lakers, New York, and Chicago OPERATING INCOME - 28th The Hawks were one of only 4 teams in the NBA last year that DID NOT MAKE MONEY, citing an Operating Income of -3.8 million. Now I KNOW that the 55% Debt/Value % number was very bad. We LOST MONEY last year? Really? I guess not reaching the 2nd round of the playoffs really did play a factor in that. Those games are probably around a 2 million a game windfall for the owners. So not having those extra 2 or 3 games in the 2nd round really hurt them from an operating income standpoint. If we're losing money, we can't expect these owners to make a big splash for anybody. It's one thing to lose money when you're winning. Totally different when you're losing. I mean, we lost money despite getting that extra money given to low revenue teams. This is bad folks. And unless attendance numbers don't turn around quickly, they might lose money again this year. I hate to say this, but maybe this is why the Hawks didn't blow things up, and are CONTENT with simply making the playoffs. We may be in a financial situation in which we're losing so much money, that getting ANYTHING back in return in extra revenue, is a good thing in the eyes of the owners. Top 3 in Operating Income - New York, LA Lakers, and Houston

To me, the Pacers caught a break when Danny Grainger got injured. Up until that point, everything flowed through him, with George simply being a solid role player that got his shots within the offense. But when Grainger went down, that forced others to step up. And George stepped up big time. Now . . he's a legit All-Star that is flirting with becoming a superstar. And that's why I believed that our best bet for getting a star player, was to maximize the talent of Al Horford. Get a legit center and play Horford at PF. Then let's see if he can make a Lamarcus Aldridge type of jump. Give Horford the freedom in the offense to take 18+ shots a game, since he already shoots a high percentage. If he can flourish in that role, that would be great. If he couldn't, at least we'd know that he's not the one to build around.

Welcome to the board. There are 2 more of us from Tennessee on here, that are also Vols fans. It's tough rooting for the Hawks AND the Vols these days.

Honestly though, who outside of Nique could be considered an All-Star caliber player back then? Doc was a real good PG,but he was only a 1 time All-Star. The same could be said about Mookie. Kevin Willis came into his own in the 90s, not when Nique was in his prime in the 80s. Nique was going up against teams that not only had multiple All-Stars, but future Hall of Fame players. Even when we got Moses Malone, he was on the tail end of his career. He had the real good season in 1989, but Willis was hurt. Then in 1990, his age really started to show, and the Hawks suffered for it. In other words, Nique played with some good players, but they were fringe All-Stars at best. Honestly, Nique needed a Joe Johnson level player to help him back then. Those teams in the 80s and early 90s were just too strong, even with the talent that Nique had. He couldn't do it all by himself, even if he tried to do it. It's a shame that ownership was so scared to lose him for nothing, that they traded him off the 1993 team . . trying to get value for him.

In the last 10 games Kyle is shooting 39% FG and 34% from 3 point range. No way should the loss of Horford affect his game that dramatically. People talk crap about how Teague has declined since Al got hurt, but they really better take a real good look at Korver these days.

It depends on who we're playing. If it's Miami, the place will be packed. Heck, we sold out the 3 home playoff games vs the Pacers last year. if we play Brooklyn, we'll sellout that series too. The killer would be a series vs a Charlotte or Washington . . . teams that don't create that buzz when they come to town. Although in the case of Charlotte, maybe 3 - 4 thousand of their fans might follow the team down to ATL, since it's only about 4 hrs away. As for the 4 - 5 year plan to build a contender with mid round picks, that will fail miserably in most cases. Look at the good to great teams around the league. They're stacked with lottery picks. They're actually built like BK built the mid 2000s Hawks. As much flack as he gets from the fan base, he really only made one critical mistake by taking Marvin over the high quality PGs that were available. But he did deal for JJ . . and chose Josh Smith in the mid 1st round . . and tried to fire Woody in 2007, but ownership wouldn't let him. The Pacers are an anomaly. They're a powerhouse defensive team made up of mid 1st round and even 2nd round picks. That's damn near the "Mid 2000s Detroit Model". If that's the route we want to go, we have to get rid of just about everyone on the team not named Al Horford, and hope those players not only play defense, but become very good offensive players.

That means that Korver isn't nowhere near as valuable as you make him out to be. If the loss of one player will affect Kyle's game like that, how valuable is he really? It's a distinct reason why this is his 4th team in 10 years. I would flip Kyle for a young player like Tim Hardaway Jr in a heartbeat.

We look more competent . . but aren't as good. Give me being good, but looking like crap. It's like style over substance. Style can only get you so far. You have to have that substance.

So do you do nothing, and still lose? But have that precious cap space? If so, who do you go after?

I agree with most of what you say. I guess I'm part of the negative crowd these days too, because I have little faith in Danny Ferry right now. To think that we lost JJ and Josh for virtually nothing, and we're still not better ( or in a full rebuilding mode ), indicates to me that Danny simply wants to straddle the fence. Despite the mediocre overall record, the team has actually been very good at home. We just don't have any big names . . or exciting type of players. Signing Korver to that long deal was mind blowing. Signing MIllsap was good. But that CAN'T be your free agent signings, if you have 30+ million in cap space, and if you're still trying to win. You have to do more and bring in players with more punch to their games. But like you said, he should've never chased after Dwight. That was the pipe dream of all pipe dreams. The only hope Ferry has for the next few years, is if something catastrophic happens in Brooklyn ( i.e - a Joe Johnson season ending injury ) that takes them out of the playoffs, so that we can get a lottery pick. If that doesn't happen, I don't trust Ferry at all to make the right type of moves to improve the team.

LOL . . they already have been breaking down, and it hasn't mattered, because the East is so bad. No Lopez. Deron's ankle is made of glass. Pierce has missed a few games. So has Garnett. JJ is the only one of their main "stars" who hasn't missed time due to injury. Maybe his feet will start acting up in the near future. But the East is SO BAD, that it's not going to matter. As of right now, 5 of the following 7 teams out of Washington, Toronto, Detroit, Charlotte, New York, Cleveland and Chicago will have to make the playoffs to keep Brooklyn out. And of that 5, Toronto or New York MUST win their division. I fully believe that 34 wins will get you into the playoffs in the East. And it might be less than that.

Ferry will have to flip Horford, Millsap, or Teague for a better player at that respective position. To me, Ferry blew it this past offseason, when he had a shot to add the likes of an Al Jefferson and Andre Iguodala to the team. Add those two players to the team, and you potentially assemble the best frontcourt in the East. And who knows? With that lineup, maybe we preserve Horford from wear and tear on his shoulder, with him playing the PF. And Iggy would've been the type of defensive stopper we need in the East when we go up against the likes of Lebron, George, and even Joe Johnson. We have too many shooters and gunners on this team. We need some people who can do the dirty work. Having Ivan on this team would be real nice, but I guess he wasn't a "culture fit".

I guess I need to see more BIG MAN qualities from Antić, before I get on his bandwagon. He's been red hot from 3 point range recently. But his history as a player indicates that he runs hot and cold as a shooter ( much like Josh Smith ), and will come crashing back down to earth. I personally don't like his softness in the paint, especially when it comes to going after rebound. He's a decent position defender when guys catch the ball in the post, I'll give him that. And he is a good passer. I'm just not fond of him thinking he's a #1 or #2 option on offense, with all of the chucking he does. Houston made an adjustment to him, by not putting Dwight on him. Teams will stop leaving Antić open, so we'll see how that affects the offense ( which it did last night early ). I want the dude to rebound a lot more,and be a better finisher around the rim. We have enough shooters on this team. We need people who are going to do the dirty work.

Heck . . Brooklyn is now 7th in the East, with the Knicks just 1 game out of 8th. So should the Hawks purposely lose to the Raptors, just so the Nets won't gain any ground on them? Hawks have been a bad road team all year, and the Raptors are hot all of a sudden, so losing to them wouldn't be a shock.

The only thing I cared about in that game, was how JJ played. I'm still a fan of his, despite him being on the enemy team. So I loved seeing him do this When people saw how bad the East was going to be, holding out any hope that the Nets would miss the playoffs would be wishful thinking. None of the bottom 5 teams in the East want to win. Chicago has sold off Deng and may do the same with Noah. So with only 5 teams hovering at or above .500 in the East, the door has been wide open for Brooklyn, and even the Knicks, to get back into the top 8. A simple win streak got the Nets right back where they want to be. And if they played .500 ball the rest of the way, they'd still get in the playoffs.

This is why Hawks fans should never talk crap about Nique and Rathbun. Bob is a true professional at all times and Nique loves the Hawks, but will also give the opponent credit as well.Some fans really go out of their way to take shots at Bob and especially Nique. When you listen to announcers around the league, you'll quickly find out that our guys are one of the better duos in the league.

Draft Lottery Tournament* Play it right after regular season is over* Seed non-playoff teams 1 - 14 ( in 1st year )* Group into 7 sections. 1 vs 2 .. to 13 vs 14 ( coin flip determines home team )* Winners go to a neutral non-NBA city to play in a 3 day tourney( 1 v 2 winner .. vs .. 3 v 4 winner ) - Group 1( 13 v 14 winner gets bye to semifinals ) - Group 2( 5 v 6 winner .. vs .. 7 v 8 winner ) - Group 3( 9 v 10 winner .. vs .. 11 v 12 winner ) - Group 4* 1st round winners guaranteed one of top 4 picks in draft* Winner of tourney gets #1 pick in the draft* Rest of draft is slotted according to record ( first by final 4 losers .. then by rest of the field )* Winner is not eligible to be in tourney the following yearCurrent matchups:Denver v LA Lakers ( 1 v 2 )Minnesota v New Orleans ( 3 v 4 )Milwaukee v Utah ( 13 v 14 )Memphis v Chicago ( 5 v 6 )Cleveland v New York ( 7 - 8 )Brooklyn v Sacramento ( 9 - 10 )Orlando v Philly ( 11 - 12 )

Thanks Mods for moving my post here. Didn't see the pinned topic until after I posted the thread.Squawk mods are like the Secret Service. Always aware of everything.

I haven't put much stock in Brooklyn's struggles until now. We'll see what that team does without Lopez, and how his absence may increase our chances on getting that lottery pick.

Dol, everything you've said in this thread is absolutely correct. The facts are that Atlanta just isn't a good sports town .... period. It's not.The things listed as reasons fans don't go to games may be legit reasons for casual BBall fans, but not for actual fans of the Hawks. If you really want to see YOUR favorite team play, you will NOT be deterred by traffic, or ticket prices, or bums, or style of play.You got so-called die hard Hawks fans that live within a 45 minute drive to the arena that don't even go to games. Yet, when Lebron comes to town, they go through hell and high water to get to the game ... ON TIME.You have a mass transit system that takes you right to the Arena, from the north, south, east, and west.The so-called bums are a FAR LESS nuisance than the guys who are selling tickets. And even with them, you can get some damn good deals out on the street.I drive 550 miles round trip anywhere from 5 - 10 times a year to attend Hawk games. I always get off on Northside Dr ( ironically ) and drive directly into downtown. Turn left on Marietta St, and I'm on a direct line to Philips. I either park in the $5 lot or the $10 parking garage, and walk about 1/2 mile to the game.If I didn't live north of Nashville, but closer to Chattanooga, I'd be at a minimum of 1/3 or 1/2 of the home games. It's about WILL and EFFORT. If you want to go to a Hawks game, only your job, personal sickness, or a prior commitment to your family will stop you from going.All of that other stuff like traffic, bums, ticket prices, and a non exciting team are simply a bunch of BS excuses.The team wins around 70% of their home games. Support your team

He has to do this more than once a month. Great game by the Boss. But I don't want to see a 4 - 9 FG ... 10 point game with 7 rebounds tomorrow night.

Killer Hawks would be opposite to the culture Danny and Bud want here. So no, the cheerleaders can't support the Hawknado's destructive ways.A better concept ( if they wanted to keep the Hawknado theme ), would be to put the faces of traded or cast off Hawks on the heads of the Hawks in the Hawknado.Maybe have a Joe Johnson hawk chase a group of people, with the intent of isolating one of them to kill. A person could yell out ... "Don't let it isolate you! He will kill you if he ISOs you."Have a person throwing bricks and headbands at the Josh Smith hawk.Have a Speedy Claxton hawk flying slowly with a damaged wing.Have the JR Rider hawk stealing cellphones off of people. And last but not least, have the Jon Koncak hawk break into a bank and steal money.

Brooklyn may be the 8 seed by the end of the night.

Yeah ..... way to spin those numbers.This dude having knee problems at such a young age is not good at all.

(( Song: "When You Wish Upon A Star" ))Announcer voice: Jordan Crawford ... you've just been named Eastern Conference Player of the Week. What are you going to do now?Jordan: "I'm going to DisneyWo..... nah. I'm going to Magic Cit-taaayyyyyy!!!"((( showing a sparkler on top of a champagne bottle )))