TheNorthCydeRises

IF we land Jefferson, this would be the natural evolution for Horford as an offensive player, although I'd rather for him to come up with a few post moves. You DON'T want him jacking up 200 threes, like Smith did, unless he can make 38% or higher on that shot though. However, I'm not against him trying to make the corner 3. Let him shoot that shot in the preseason, and in November, and see how it goes. What I DON'T want to happen, is for his mid range game to suffer, because he's out there trying to make 3s. That's essentially what happened to Marvin. Marvin was a 45% mid range shooter in 2007 - 08. Then people encouraged him to extend his game out to the 3 point line. He tried to do just that, and his mid range shot suffered big time for it. So I dont want Horford to start jacking up 3s just for the hell of it. He needs to take timely 3s. But if he's shooting 31% on that shot, I'd rather him take the 17 foot jumper.

I love how everyone is concerned about defense now though, but are willing to bring back Korver and Zaza. If you want to construct a defensive team here, I have no problem with that.

Question: Did Copeland play the 3 while in NY? It's a simple Yes or No question. If the answer to that question is YES, why are you even arguing this? Heck, even Tolliver played most of his minutes here as a SF. Whether it be "small ball" or "big ball", the fact is that he played the 3 in Atlanta . . just like Copeland did in NY. And they both can play a smallish 4. So do you want to dispute this? If Ferry constructs a frontline that looks like this: SF: Copeland - Corey Brewer PF: Horford - Ivan/Scott - with Copeland seeing some minutes at PF C: Jefferson - Dalembert I could live with that for next year, in the short term.

That's a fair assessment, although he has balled when given the chance to start. So add him anyway as another scorer off the bench. I agree that if we could add Brewer, he'd be the starter. But add Copeland as well, and let him be the combo 3/4 man, especially if Ferry decides not to bring back Ivan. This is all about adding talent that we can possibly develop in the short term. No more almost dead NBA players on this squad. Bring in some actual talent.

I listed those guys because they play on championship level squads. If he can't take the place of any of those guys, what exactly is the "right" scenario that Korver could be the starter? He couldn't start on the Hawks, so how the hell is going to start on an actual team that is good enough to win a title? He's played in 60 playoff games, and started in a grand total of 9 of them. If Korver had the ability to put the ball on the floor and score, or post smaller 2 guards up and score, that guy could definitely be a starter on a championship squad. But because he can't do any of that, nor play good man defense, he'll never start on a championship level team. Korver is a great spot up shooter who is best suited in a Steve Novak role off the bench . . . that's it. If he gets hot, you milk him until he misses. But to play him 30 minutes a game? Nah.

Chris Copeland as a starter 27.1 minutes 16.1 ppg . . on on 13.2 shots 3.7 rebs 0.8 asst . . lol, he doesn't like to pass 0.6 stls 0.3 blks 47% FG 43% 3FG 70% Ft Pure scorer, who can actually shoot. My thing is this. I'm not into "pipe dreaming". Unless something miraculous happens, I'm not expecting one of the top 2 free agents to come here. So Ferry must have some sort of plan of how he wants this team to be made up, which I'm sure he does .. . that's his job. Unless we get some alpha dog type scorer here, we need a mix of scorers, shooters, and defenders here to keep this team relevant. Most of all though, we just need TALENT, preferably young talent that we can develop and make decisions on. I don't want to see no more Vladimir Radmanovic's on this team. No more Anthony Tolliver's. No more Josh Powell's. No more Tracy McGrady's. Those were guys who are obviously on their last legs as NBA players, and are just hanging around the league, getting paid off of what they USED could do. We need to properly identify younger talent that is either under the radar, or younger guys on other benches who are just being misused, and add them to this team. Guys like Ivan and Copeland look a hell of a lot better than some of the true journeymen in this league, yet, they either don't get a chance to fully showcase their talents, or they're playing behind All-Star type talent, and can't get on the floor. Or the coaches are too stupid to give them the playing time that they need and deserve.

He defended a little in Game 5 vs the Pacers ( 2 steals ), but defense isn't his strong suit. He's a better defender than Korver and Tolliver though . . although I don't know if that says a lot. Copeland is more of an instant offense type of guy that you either have start a game and plays about 26 minutes, or you bring him off the bench as a #1 or #2 option with the 2nd unit. If anything, he reminds me of a better shooting version of Al Harrington . . . a guy who can play both the 3 and the 4 on offense. He's definitely not Lee Nailon . . lol.

If you saw him all year, how do you come to the conclusion that he's a "journeyman chucker", when he actually makes shots?

Could Kyle Korver take Tayshawn's spot in Memphis? How about George in Indiana? Battier in Miami? Leonard in San Antonio? Butler in Chicago? Heck, Korver couldn't even be trusted to start for us during the playoffs, after George torched him and made him completely useless offensively. But he could start on a "championship level team"? SMH I know he's a fan favorite. But this isn't the first time he's gotten completely exposed in the playoffs. Heck, WE even exposed him in 2011, when Thibs tried to hide Korver defensively, by having him guard Teague . . . and Teague lit him up, rendering him useless for that series.

Who said anything about a "pure wing"? I specifically said that he could play the "power 3" / "stretch 4" offensively, like Josh Smith tried to play. Didn't I say that in my opening post? The fact is that the guy played 1/2 of his minutes at SF and the other half at PF. When he's on the floor with Melo, he plays SF. When he's on the floor with Novak, he plays SF. When he's on the floor with Kenyon Martin, he plays SF.

LOL . . that dude would be the 7th man on the Hawks, and would sit the beloved Kyle Korver on the bench. Some of you have to start watching the league man, forreal.

Copeland vs the Hawks scrubs in April . . . pretty much dominating them with slashes and post ups. Copeland in a regular season game vs Sacramento, showing his 3 point range Woody teaching Copeland defensive principles, and showing that he still has some game

One of the things about this new CBA, and with the cap space that we have, is that the Hawks can make POWER MOVES to take talent away from cap strapped teams. As good as Andray Blatche was for the Nets this year, they know that they probably can't keep him around if a team offers him a decent deal. I'm very interested at how Ferry identifies talent that may be "under the radar", whether it be in the draft, in the D-League, overseas, or a guy on someone's bench right now. I truly believe we have one of those "under the radar" type players in Ivan. But another one of those guys is Chris Copeland. His stats this year: 15.4 minutes 8.7 ppg 2.1 rebs 0.5 asst 47.9% FG 42.1% 3FG 75.9% FT 16.8 PER 58.3% TS% 110 Offensive Rtg .117 WS/48 What really stands out to me are his "instant offense" type of stats and his ability to knock down shots and score on people in the post. When you watch him work offensively, he's like Mike Scott with a 3 point shot. And if Scott could knock down 3s, fans would be salivating all over that dude. Like Ivan, this is a dude who has bounced around everywhere. He started out in the D-League back in 2007, then played 5 years in Europe. He got his chance in the NBA when the Knicks signed him to a non-guaranteed contract. He impressed so much that he stayed on with the Knicks all season, even becoming a guy who ended up being their 7th leading scorer. Now . . . here's where the Hawks can step in. Check out this ESPN article that dropped yesterday. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/44510/agent-copeland-wants-to-get-paid Spencer confirmed that not only does Copeland want to "play and contribute" next season, but he also "wants to get paid." Spencer said Copeland believes he has earned his stripes playing overseas in five different countries and now proving with the Knicks that he belongs in the NBA. Per 36 minutes this season, Copeland averaged 20.3 points per game and shot 42.1 percent from 3-point range. Spencer envisions Copeland's value to be in the $3.5 to $5 million range. Spencer compared his client to Steve Novak, who's in about the $4 million range, and said that because Copeland is more versatile offensively as a stretch 4, he'll be an attractive free agent. In fact, a source familiar with Copeland's situation said three teams at this point are interested in negotiating with him come July 1. ----- The Knicks' first order of free-agency business will be deciding on J.R. Smith. But even if the team offers him $4.91 million using an early-Bird exception, they could still use their taxpayer mid-level exception of $3.18 million to sign Copeland. That's if he declines the qualifying offer. *************** ESPN did a follow-up article this morning entitled "Can the Knicks afford Copeland?" It's in ESPN Insider though, so I can't see beyond the first paragraph. The point is this though. We need to definitely find out before free agency if we have any shot at Paul and Howard. If not, or if we're long shots, Ferry needs to move QUICKLY and go to Plans B through Z. I want to see if he can not only identify talent, but be persuasive and aggressive enough to bring that talent in. Ferry moved with lightning quickness when discarding JJ and Marvin, so I want him to move with that same type of quickness when filling out this roster this summer. I think we could secure Copeland with a 2 yr - 8 to 10 million deal, that has a team option in Year 2. Instead of wasting time always bringing in vet minimum guys who we know are basically scrubs that will be here for one year, why not invest on a guy who can actually play, and might stick around for a few years? I know people love Kyle Korver around here, but Copeland is a much better offensive talent, even if he isn't as pure of a shooter. Copeland can play both the "power 3" and act as a "stretch 4". In essence, he can play the type of offensive game that Josh Smith tried to play. Bringing him off the bench, with Lou, Jenkins, and hopefully Ivan or Scott, could give the Hawks a young, energetic bench to change the pace of games. Get it done Ferry.

Zaza is rolling over in his grave right now.

AHF . . . so tank the entire thing then. But you can't halfway do it. You have to sell off everybody. Teague. Horford. Everybody. Outside of CP3 or D12 coming here, any lineup I try to construct is going to look like the "recipe for mediocrity". And there's not even a single guy that people can agree to target in the next 2 years, that might bring us our "superstar". It doesn't matter if I put together a Jefferson - Iggy - Horford lineup . . . or a Pekovic - Horford - Teague lineup . . or any other lineup that people can concoct. It's going to be viewed as "mediocre" in people's eyes. So what do we do? I know if I were the Hawks ownership, there would be no way I'm tanking. Not when I can continually mix and match pieces, stay somewhat relevant, and maybe put myself in position to make a major trade to bring in a true star player. The lineup I constructed has virtually no chance to win a championship. But it does keep us at playoff level, with the ability to see what some of those free agents like Copeland can do, if given the chance to play everyday. It also stocks the team with young talent that may develop into good players. If the young players can play above what they're worth, now we're talking about the Hawks being in position to add the right veteran players to really make the team better. All I know is that I would be highly intrigued with a skilled low post player like Jefferson, being teamed up with a skilled high post player like Horford, with Horford playing the scorer/facilitator role that Josh tried to play ( sometimes unsuccessfully ).

But isn't that exactly what you're doing, with your focus totally being on TS%? How about taking a complete offensive and overall snapshot of those players? When you sort that same group of players according to PER . . . Jefferson ranks 15th . . . ( 3rd amongst centers ) When you sort them by Offensive Rating ( ORtg ). . . he ranks 24th . . . ( 5th amongst centers ) When you sort them by Offensive Win Score ( OWS ). . . he ranks 24th . . . ( 5th amongst centers ) When you sort them by Total Win Score ( TWS ). . . he ranks 20th . . . ( 5th amongst centers ) When you sort them by Win Score per 48 ( WS/48 ) . . . he ranks 23rd . . ( 6th amongst centers ) Hell, even when you sort this list by DEFENSIVE Win Score ( DWS ) . . . he ranks 20th . . ( 5th amongst centers ) And DEFENSIVE Rating ( DRtg ) . . . 20th . . . ( 5th amongst centers ) But let you guys tell it, Jefferson doesn't even help his team win or isn't "transcendent" enough of a player to add to this roster? Please. Outside of his TS%, he ranks in the top 5 in centers in most other categories, and in the top 25 overall. But the skills and talent he brings to the table isn't good enough? Having he and Horford on the team together ( who also placed in the top 25 in most of these categories . . higher than Jefferson in most categories ), isn't an intriguing proposition to explore? If not . . then Ferry needs to trade Horford for some scrubs, and completely tank this thing. Just for comparison, here is where Josh Smith ranked in each of those categories amongst those 49 players: PER - 33rd TS% - 45th ORtg - 49th ( dead last ) DRtg - 7th OWS - 49th ( dead last ) DWS - 7th TWS - 44th WS/48 - 43rd

AHF . . . I am not a fan that views things by "hoping". I simply deal with what is in front of me, and go from there. #1 . . . I'm NOT tanking, and risking alienating the only asset I have in Al Horford. My goal for next season is to see if he can take on an expanded role on the team, making him the marquee name, and see if I can add one or two real good pieces around him to enhance his game, and make the Hawks better. And because the Hawks owners are having money problems as it is, I'm not tanking because I don't want to lose even more money. #2 . . . I'm taking the best players available with those draft picks, regardless of position. #3 . . . I'm filling out the rest of the roster with players ( hopefully decent players ) who I can sign for 1 or 2 year deals Offseason Moves - Talk with Dwight and Paul to see if they want to team up in Atlanta. Have a CLEAR grasp of what they want to do BEFORE the draft. If I can't get some sort of commitment from either of them by the time the Draft comes around, I scrap any idea of trying to sign them. The last thing I want, is to be placed into a "Dwightmare" or rolled up in a "TarPAULlin", seeing what they're going to do. This could cause me to lose out on other guys that I could've signed. I'm not being held hostage by them. - Decide what you want to do with Jeff Teague - Take the best players available in the draft. Do NOT worry about need. - Renounce EVERYONE on the roster, with the exception of Teague ( if bigs or wings are the free agent target ) - Target Jefferson and/or Iguodala. - Sign decent players to 1 or 2 year deals to round out the roster So say we strike out on Dwight and Paul PG - Teague ( 5.5 mill in 1st year, then salary ascends . . Player option in Year 3 . . 4 year deal ) G - Tony Allen ( 5 million . . . Team option in Year 3 . . 3 year deal ) F - Chris Copeland ( 5 million . . 2 year deal . . . team option in year 2 ) PF - Horford ( 12 mill . . . 3 yrs left on deal ) C - Jefferson ( 15 mill in 1st year, then salary descends . . . player options in Year 3 and year 4 . . 4 year deal ) G - L. Williams ( 5.22 mill ) G - Jenkins ( 1.26 mill ) G - Shane Larkin ( 1.1 mill . . . 1st year of rookie deal ) G/F - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope ( 1.1 mill . . . 1st year of rookie deal ) F - Corey Brewer ( 3 million . . . 1 year deal ) F - Ivan Johnson ( 2 million . . . 1 year deal ) F - Mike Scott ( pick up option of .79 mill ) C - Samuel Dalembert ( 3 million . . 1 year deal ) C - Zaza Pachulia ( 3 million . . 2 year deal . . . team option in year 2 . . since people love him so much ) Total payroll . . . approx 63 million . . . with 16 million in contracts potentially falling off in summer of 2014 That's how you stay relevant, retain talent, retain cap flexibility, and keep yourself in the mix to obtain a big time free agent with a trade or two.

How many centers listed above him in TS%, is a better player offensively than Jefferson? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Don't take that one stat, and try to make some sweeping judgement about his game or how efficient he is. Guys like Joakim Noah, Deandre Jordan, Tiago Splitter, and even Zaza had a higher TS% than Jefferson last year. But no one in their right mind is going to say that any of those guys are better offensive centers than Al Jefferson.

You guys are the ones who jump all over these advance stats, and try to make them out to be the end all, be all. You guys take ONE stat, and try to formulate an entire assessment of a player. Forget actually watching the games and seeing for yourself how the guy plays, and using the advance stats to see if they correlate. Nope. Dwight Howard has a TS% of .598 Tim Duncan has a TS% of .557 Al Jefferson has a TS% of .531 Now . . . it's 2 minutes to go in a game, and you need a score. Rank in order who you are going to? Nevermind, I'll rank them. 1) Duncan 2) Jefferson 3) Dwight And why does Dwight rank 3rd on that list, despite having a higher TS% than both Duncan and Jefferson? Because Dwight does nothing but score from around 5 feet and in. And if he gets fouled, he will more often than not only make one FT. If left one on one, Dwight will be a threat to score. But most teams will hack him at the end of games, making him score from the FT line . . . which will virtually make his great TS% useless. Both Duncan and Jefferson can take their man out to 17 feet and shoot over top of him, or create their own shot in the post. If either gets fouled, both Duncan and Jefferson can go to the line and knock down 2 FTs. Despite Howard's great TS%, there's a reason why Shaq said even before Lopez had his All-Star year, that Lopez was actually the better offensive center than Howard. Shaq thinks that Dwight should be dominating people. But he doesn't Lopez's TS% for his career stands at .562. Al Horford, by the way, stands at .571. So is Horford a more efficient scorer than Tim Duncan? Especially in situations where you NEED a bucket? The ONLY reason why Al Jefferson doesn't have a higher TS%, is because he doesn't draw frree throw attempts at a high rate, which the TS% puts a pretty high emphasis on. But he also doesn't turn the ball over at nearly the rate of most top low post options as well. On a per possession basis, he's going to be around 1 point per possession, which is damn good for a guy who is consistently the #1 or #2 option in an offense. So strike me down if I would like to see what a guy like Jefferson can do alongside Al Horford, who would finally get a chance to play PF on 70% of his minutes. That frontline intrigues the hell out of me. But you stick with that Zaza - Horford frontline if you want.

LOL @ be happy with Zaza, but then accuse ME of being happy with mediocrity? That's the type of insanity that goes on in this forum. People value scrubs like Zaza instead of guys who can ball. And that's no disrespect to Zaza. But compared to guys like Jefferson and Lopez, he's a scrub.

I meant Game 7, not Game 6.

True story . . . Tyson Chandler led the league in TS%. So damn . . . I guess he's a better shooter than Lebron and Durant, who were 2nd and 3rd. Korver was 4th. So I guess he's the 4th most valuable shooter in the league ( even though he can't create his own shot ). And Jose Calderon was 5th. Yep, let's add him before Chris Paul. There's your strawman. It doesn't matter which clip I show of Jefferson. He balls against an undersized Horford. He balls against the huge Roy Hibbert. He balls against Joakim Noah, one of the best defensive centers in the game. LOL @ Korver not playing defense has far less effect on the team defense. Did you watch the Hawks vs Pacers series? What happened when we tried to have Korver guard George? Not only did George shut Korver down, he torched Korver on the offensive end. Then Drew FINALLY makes an adjustment, and puts Josh Smith on him . . . a bigger, better defender. Voila . . . George falls back to earth, instead of looking like the 2nd coming of Clyde Drexler. But that's the mentality around here. Value scrub role players over guys who can actually do something at a very high level.

Why are you putting out those ridiculous numbers? Nobody in their right mind is giving Samuel Dalembert 8 million. That's what YOU GUYS want to do, so that he can drop off the books next summer and retain all of that cap space. And why would anybody give Matt Barnes a straight up 3 yr - 9 million a year contract? He's a Bi-Annual contract type of player at best that is going to be signed to 1 or 2 year deals for the rest of his career. And 8 million for Teague? I don't know about that. I want to see the team who believes that Teague is worth a 4/32 contract. My guess is that when Teague hits the open market, he'll get something along the lines of a 4 - 24 or 26 mill type of deal. No sir. The "Northcyde Plan" would be to keep the team relevant, while retaining some of our cap flexibility. And it would also be to have assets on hand, so that we could possibly execute trades to help the team . . . even if it meant trading off our best talent. Give me Horford and Jefferson, and I'm pretty sure I could construct a playoff level team, that retained cap flexibility, and have pieces on the squad that I can deal off at any time. AHF, I'll say what Wretch said before the season. If you're going to "tank", you need to go ALL THE WAY. No such thing as "halfway tanking". Tank it all the way. - Let Teague walk - Trade Horford - and don't bring back any type of talent that will even remotely win you 30 games. That's how you tank. You don't tell Horford that we're going to throw away an entire season, not do anything, and place all of our hopes in another round of 30 million in cap space and hope we can get a top 3 lottery pick . . . and hope we pick the superstar, instead of the solid starter or bust. Horford would straight up demand to get out of here, if we started to do that.

Jamal was a GUNNER . . . period. He had one good year in Atlanta, and reverted back to his inconsistent 41% shooting self. He looked to be turning the corner with the Clippers this year, only to shoot 39% FG and 27% 3FG against the Grizzlies. But even I will admit that Jamal did help us while he was here. He just shouldn't have been trusted to be the #1 or #2 option scorer. Meanwhile, Al Jefferson has never shot below 49% FG at any point in his career. Al Jefferson has never averaged less than 9 rebounds ( on a per 36 minute basis ) at any point in his career. And when he and the Jazz got to the playoffs last year, he averaged 18 ppg - 8 rebs - and shot 53%. But like I said . . . go ahead and give me some alternative option to what we can do, if the "pipe dream" of landing Dwight Howard doesn't happen. Tell me how we'll be better off retaining Zaza and adding Tiago Splitter to play alongside Horford. LOL @ dogging a guy who can actually ball, and would rather retain scrubs.

Lopez was at fault for Game 6 ONLY. He was busting Noah's azz the entire series, up until that point. But even with that, the Nets aren't even in the playoffs, without the play of Lopez throughout the year. But go ahead and dog that dude, and act like he isn't a good player that is an overall asset to a team. I guess fans like you value the "toughness" of Zaza over the production of guys like Lopez and Jefferson. Some of you better keep in mind that it's not like we have some dynamic scoring guard or wing on this team. We're going to have to get scoring from somewhere. I'm just tired of the "chuck and duck" offense that was supposed to be leaps and bounds better than anything we had here, but couldn't even average 100 ppg throughout the year, and got completely shut down in the playoffs. Take it back old school, and run the offense through the big men, instead of trying to set up inconsistent jumpshooters.