TheNorthCydeRises

Korver's defense at times, is atrocious. But people around here love that dude. Jeff Teague's defense at times, is atrocioius. But people around here love that dude. So was Al Horford's defense. So was Josh Smith's defense, although far less frequently than anyone else on the team. Keep talking yourself out from getting this dude, and I'll keep posting clips The Hawks blew Utah out in this game. This was Jefferson And this was Horford Two of the best PF/C in the game going head up against each other. Like an old school battle between Olajuwon and Ewing. And yet, people don't want these two on the same team TOGETHER? Matter of fact, some of you want to trade Horford as well. Forget that. Put these two on the same team together, to see if they can create the Dynamic Duo in Atlanta.

The same type of people who dog Al Jefferson, are the same type of people who were dogging Brook Lopez. Lopez has his flaws in certain areas, but there is NO DOUBT that he is an elite scoring center ( in today's NBA ). And those types of players are not easy to come by. Not around here though. People would rather spend 6 million to retain Zaza, than to spend 13 million to get Jefferson.

He's an ELITE low post scorer This is him against the "great" Joakim Noah a few months ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJOy5oaxHdw It is not his fault that he has a bunch of people around him who can't shoot the ball, or stay healthy enough to balance the Utah team out. Al Jefferson can BALL. But people have their biases against certain players that will have them talking out of adding a guy who is easily a top 25 player in this league. A player who is almost the polar opposite of Josh Smith on offense. Nope. Let's not add that type of talent for the next 3 or 4 years, and hope we can get a big man out of college who can ball. Instead, let's get a top 5 pick, and roll the dice on a Cody Zellar type instead of getting a guy who is a PROVEN 18 ppg - 10 rebs a game player right now. Offseason moves You get Jefferson to add with Horford. You go out and get another defensive center or PF ( and sign him to a one year contract, if you want to retain "cap flexibility" ). You go out and get a wing defender who can give you timely offense And you decide if Teague is the PG to lead this team. Everything else you can add on the cheap, whether it be shooters or other role players. But we'll see what Ferry will do.

Who said anything about Al Jefferson being the missing piece to win a title? And who said pay 12 million for Tyreke Evans? That's insanity. Acquiring Jefferson is adding an asset to the Hawks while giving this team a different look. But some of you act like we'd be adding Channing Frye at 11 - 13 million a year or something. Despite being drafted 15th in 2004, Jefferson has arguably been the 3rd best player behind Dwight Howard and Andre Iguodala. Some of you may argue that Josh Smith, Luou Deng, and even Kevin Martin have been better than him, and that's fine. You'd be wrong though. Here is a guy who we KNOW will perform at a top 5 lottery pick level, and is one of the best big men in the league . . . but people want to go to Vegas, tank it all, and roll the dice to get a superstar. And keep rolling ( and sucking ) every year, until it happens. Or instead, they want to add Chris Kaman and Corey Magettee type players at 8 - 10 million for one year, so they can fall off the books and we can have cap space to do it all over again the next year. Meanwhile, Horford is getting pissed that we're not adding quality players to the roster, and requests a trade in the summer of 2014. Then what? Oh yeah ** spin and clapping ** "Come on #1 pick. Big money. Big money."

People are looking for this "pie in the sky" solution. But in reality, we're going to have to get extremely lucky, and/or be at the right place at the right time. I'm like you man. I have no interest whatsoever in watching a 20 win Atlanta Hawks team, hoping and waiting for that "miracle" to be bestowed upon us. I see what Minnesota fans are going through, after having a Hall of Famer on their team that the organization FAILED to expound on their success in 2003, and see them trade their star, and reboot TWICE with a rebuilding plan. Currently, they're on a 9 year playoff drought. I see what Sacramento is going through, with shady owners and a fan base that is so tired of them, that they had the owners ready to sell off the team to a new ownership . . which would move them to a new city. They haven't made the playoffs in 7 years, after making the playoffs 8 straight years I see what Charlotte is going through, with only one playoff appearance in their short 9 year existence hoping that their young talent, and their management, finally figures it out and find the chemistry to produce a winner. Right now is our moment in time. If we can't land a superstar with damn near 40 million in potential cap space, and we have to literally be at the bottom of the barrel to get a chance at a top 3 draft pick ( and hope we select the guy who might be a superstar ), what the hell are we supposed to do? Just be miserable for 6 years, with no hope, then hope we strike lightning in a bottle in Year 7. (( Bleep )) that. If we can't land Paul or Howard, Ferry BETTER bring Al Jefferson in here, and see if he and Horford can create one of the best offensive frontlines in the league. People act like we only have one option, or blow it all up. Damn that. If we can't beat Miami, I want to beat everyone else. Just make sure we're the #2 seed next year, and hope someone on the Heat has an off series. But tanking . . . or just giving up altogether? Forget that. That's how you lose fans. If we do that, and the Grizzlies get to the NBA Finals, 1/2 of Georgia will become Grizzlies fans.

I think Scott can coach an already talented team, but may not be a guy who can develop talent.

Nate McMillan's regular season winning % was .514 Fortgot to add that in the original post.

Dolfan's rant about Nate McMillian and his coaching record game me the idea for this thread. I'll post the link that he posted in the other thread. http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/NBA_stats.html Now . . . you can sort that list by any criteria you want, by clicking once on the name of each category. So if you want to do like he did, and see who had the best winning percentage during the playoffs, you simply click on the W-L% under the Playoff category. That will sort the category from highest to lowest playoff win percentage. So let's see where some of these non-active head coaches rank in a few categories. I'm going to consider any coach who has coached an NBA team within the last 10 years, but doesn't have a team right now, as a "non-active" available coach . . . . unless I know for sure that he's retired or working as a coach somewhere else, or in the front office. But if he hasn't coached since 2003, I'm going to consider him "retired". REGULAR SEASON WINNING % 1) Phil Jackson - .704 . . . ( last coached the LA Lakers in 2011 ) 2) Stan Van Gundy - .641 . . . ( fired by Orlando in 2012 ) 3) Jerry Sloan - .603 . . . ( has talked to Milwaukee ) 4) Avery Johnson - .577 . . . ( fired earlier in the season in Brooklyn ) 5) Jeff Van Gundy - .575 . . . ( current color analyst on ESPN ) 6) Larry Drew - .557 . . . ( contract expires at end of the year in Atlanta ) 7) Mike Fratello - .549 . . . ( current color analyst for TNT and YES Network ) 8) Paul Westphal - .533 . . . ( fired by Sacramento early in the 2011 season ) 9) Doug Collins - .521 . . . ( fired by Philadelphia last month ) 10) Nate McMillan - . . . ( fired by Portland in 2012 ) PLAYOFF WINNING % 1) Phil Jackson - .688 . . . . ( 229 playoff wins ) 2) Byron Scott - .579 . . . . . ( 33 ) 3) Stan Van Gundy - .552 . . ( 48 ) 4) Paul Westphal - .551 . . . ( 27 ) 5) Mike Dunleavy - .535 . . . ( 38 ) 6) Jeff Van Gundy - .500 . . . ( 44 ) 7) Avery Johnson - .489 . . . ( 23 ) 8) Jerry Sloan - .485 . . . . . . ( 98 ) 9) Lawrence Frank - .474 . . ( 18 ) 10) Jim O'Brien - .452 . . . . . ( 14 ) CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS 1) Phil Jackson - 13 . . ( Jordan & Pippen . . Shaq & Kobe ) 2) Two tied with - 2 --- Jerry Sloan . . . ( Malone & Stockton ) --- Byron Scott . . . ( Kidd ) 4) Five tied with - 1 --- Stan Van Gundy . . . ( Howard ) --- Jeff Van Gundy . . . ( Ewing ) --- Avery Johnson . . . ( Nowitzki ) --- Paul Westphal . . . ( Barkley & Kevin Johnson ) --- Mike Dunleavy . . . ( Magic & Worthy ) NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS 1) Phil Jackson - 11 . . . ( Jordan & Pippen . . Kobe & Shaq )

Garbage?

Poor Woody. Players are missing wide open shots, or acting like they're playing summer ball on the And 1 tour, and he gets blamed for being a bad coach. JR Smith = Jamal Crawford Too much talent to sit on the bench, but as soon as you start trusting them, they'll break your heart and shoot you right out of a game. I do wonder why Chris Copeland can't get more playing time. Must have something to do with his defense. That dude seem to ball every time he got some significant playing time during the regular season. Woody should've kept his word, and benched JR, or significantly limited his minutes. Now, it may be too late. Melo may have to average 35 ppg the rest of the series, for the Knicks to pull it out. Poor Woody.

Your girlfriend is a smart woman. However, I will say this. It will be VERY INTERESTING to see what Horford can do, if all of a sudden he became the #1 option. If he were to suddenly get 18 shots per game, I do believe he can become a guy who could average 20 - 21 ppg, still grab 10 rebounds, and still shoot 50% FG ( although it wouldn't be in the mid-50's, it would be right around 50% ). If Horford could average 20 ppg - 10 rebs, it still wouldn't make him a "superstar", but it would put him in that Lamarcus Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson type of offensive threat. That's why I still think the target for Ferry in the offseason, should be Al Jefferson. Instead of relying on schizophrenic jumpshooting guards to provide scoring, we could legitimately construct a frontline that could get us 40 - 45 points and 20 - 25 rebounds on a nightly basis. And with Jefferson here, Horford would have an excuse to extend his range out to the 3 point line. If he became a guy who could make the corner 3 point shot at say, a 38% clip, while Jefferson did his work on the inside, that would be big time for the Hawks. I look at what Memphis has done since the Pau Gasol trade, and believe that if we can't get a superstar scorer, that's the way we have to build our team in ATL. Construct the strongest frontline possible, so that we can control the boards and let them determine our fate on offense. Get a PG that can at least run the show, make timely offensive plays, and play defense. And bring in role players that fit the "identity" of the team. And for me, I hope that identity resembles one that is a tough defensive team that can win games, even when a game is ugly ( ala Memphis ). "Pretty Basketball" only wins, when you have dynamic guards or a wing player who are basically unstoppable on the offensive end ( Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, etc ). If you don't have those types of players, the only way you can beat the "pretty" team, is to punch them in the eye and make them ugly. That's why teams like Memphis and even Indiana are legit threats in the playoffs.

No doubt on that. I definitely want him to come back this season with a very good drop step move, along with maybe a turnaround jumper. The jumper is fine, and will always be a part of his game. But he can't solely rely on that shot. If he can develop some decent post moves, he could possibly go to the FT line a little more as well. At that point, it will be up to Horford to regain his FT shooting touch, and shoot at least 75% from the line.

Al making a bold prediction . . taking the Spurs in 6. Good analysis by him on that series.

I tried to see this twice, but was out of the house both times he was due to come on I guess. I was hoping they'd replay it on their "Best of First Take" 30 minute segment right now, but they only show the Skip vs Stephen A debate segments. ****************** And lo and behold, he's on RIGHT NOW!!

As a matter of fact, I would give Danny Ferry a timetable of three days to decide if I'm going to be the coach or not. Don't let him keep your life in limbo like that.

I agree that Larry Drew should tell Danny Ferry to kick rocks. Drew will probably be a candidate for pro and college coaching jobs. So there is no way in hell that I would wait on Ferry to make a decision concerning my coaching life.I agree that Larry Drew should tell Danny Ferry to kick rocks. Drew will probably be a candidate for pro and college coaching jobs. So there is no way in hell that I would wait on Ferry to make a decision concerning my coaching life.

DatWerkk, you had some good post ........ ( in my Stephen. A Smith voice ) .... howeva ......There is NO POSSIBLE SCENARIO that Josh Smith can be re-signed if we add Howard and Paul to this team.If we renounce all of our free agents, and our guaranteed salaries and roster cap holds are 24.5 million, CP3 and D12 have to be signed FIRST, to fit them under the salary cap. And if both are maxed out and make 17 million in year 1, that's 34 million that they'll take up.23.5 million + 34 million = 57 million in cap space used.Josh is not playing for the MLE next year.The Josh Smith era in Atlanta should be over, even if we could fit him under the cap. But it will definitely end if we add Paul and Howard

Put me in the Stan Van Gundy approval camp. I know after a loss, the excuse just won't be "effort and energy". He'll go in depth into whatever went wrong in that game. Stan could probably do wonders for a player like Horford. And a shooter like Jenkins will definitely get his chance to shine in a SVG offense.

What . . . you mean like bringing in the the Atlanta AAU All-Star team ( Josh, Lou, Anthony Morrow ), to possibly lure a response from Dwight about his future?

Oh . . and here's your "he's not a center" vs Hibbert and the Pacers. Think we could've used some of this in that series?

LOL . .. you really want to do a stat comparison of Al Jefferson and Josh Smith? OK . . let's do it line by line JOSH SMITH MIN - 35.3 PPG - 17.5 REBS - 8.4 ASST - 4.2 STLS - 1.2 BLKS - 1.8 TURN - 3.0 FG% - .465 3FG% - .303 ( 201 three point attempts ) FT% - .517 PER - 17.7 TS% - .501 eFG% - .491 Off reb% - 5.8 Def reb% - 21.3 Tot reb% - 13.6 AST% - 20.9 STL% - 1.8 BLK% - 3.9 TOV% - 14.6 USG% - 26.7 Off Rating - 97 Def Rating - 101 Off Win Score - ( -0.3 ) Def Win Score - ( 4.5 ) Tot Win Score - ( 4.2 ) Win Score/48 - ( .075 ) AL JEFFERSON MIN - 33.1 PPG - 17.8 REBS - 9.2 ASST - 2.1 STLS - 1.0 BLKS - 1.1 TURN - 1.3 FG% - .494 3FG% - .118 ( 17 three point attempts ) FT% - .770 PER - 20.9 TS% - .522 eFG% - .495 Off reb% - 7.0 Def reb% - 25.9 Tot reb% - 16.3 AST% - 12.0 STL% - 1.6 BLK% - 2.7 TOV% - 7.3 USG% - 25.3 Off Rating - 109 Def Rating - 104 Off Win Score - ( 4.3 ) Def Win Score - ( 3.3 ) Tot Win Score - ( 7.7 ) Win Score/48 - ( .143 ) Outside of Al being a superior offensive player than Josh, the big addition to the Hawks would be the fact that we could keep Jefferson or Horford out on the court at all times, instead of having to completely downgrade the frontline by having Zaza or Petro in the game. When engaged, Josh is a very good defender. The problem is keeping him engaged. And part of defense is rebounding. Too many times in his career, Josh has not gotten critical rebounds simply because he refuses to put a body on somebody and box them out. Give me the superior offensive and rebounding PF/C, over the great talented F who can't seem to let go of his affinity for long jumpers.

There isn't anything "declining" about Jefferson's game. He's still the same player that he's always been while in Utah, which probably makes fans mad. Like us with Joe Johnson, Utah fans wanted him to progress into a superstar, and he hasn't done it. So criticize Jefferson for not being a superstar. But to say he does "nothing" is straight BS. You don't put yourself in position for a 40 - 60 million dollar contract, if you do "nothing". The guy can create his own shot, shoot it at a 50% clip, and rebound the basketball. It was easier for Jefferson to put up the numbers he did in Boston and Minnesota, because he was the only or main offensive threat. He got a lot more shots and usage. Saying that Jefferson rebounds at the same rate as Horford is NOT a negative on Jefferson's game. That means that we now have two guys who are capable of being top 10 rebounders in the NBA. And people kill me dogging Shareef, like he was a garbage player here. Shareef wasn't the problem with those Hawks teams back in the day. We virtually had no bench and no shooters outside of JT on those teams. LOL . . Dion Glover and Ira Newble used to alternate starting at the 2. Reef at times looked like a damn All-Star, with the games he put up. He simply had no help, outside of JT ( who wasn't a true PG ) and Big Dog, who was inconsistent as hell as a scorer and a turnover machine.

So do the Hawks win those last 2 games if they played everybody, and their opponent played their full team? I mean, because we definitely were not "tanking" the end of the season before then. Derozen and Gay were virtually unstoppable the night we played them on National TV. And the Knicks C team played our C team. Utah won 9 of their last 12, but had to play a full strength Denver, OKC, and Memphis team down the stretch. Those were their only losses. Hawks and Jazz were basically the same team. Couldn't consistently win on the road. Highly inconsistent vs teams over 500. Feasted on teams below 500. As for the 2009 - 2010 team, they posted an offensive rating of 111.9 . . . 2nd best in the league that year. And the reason why they posted that rating was because they were a team that didn't turn the ball over, and a team that dominated the offensive boards, which gave them extra possessions and opportunities to score more points. Plus we had guys who could put the ball in the hole with tough shots, in JJ and Jamal. You subtract Smith and add Jefferson, what happens to the Hawks offense? - your FG% increases - your TOs go down - your Offensive Rebounding increases - you get a guy who can create his own offense in the mid range and down on the blocks - and you drastically reduce the number of long jumpers coming from the PF spot At that point, the question is if the Jefferson - Horford frontline can defend . . because we know they can rebound. The Hawks should definitely NOT max that guy out. What they can do, is offer him a 3 year deal with a player option in Year 3 . . or a 4 year deal with a team option in Year 4. Give him anywhere from 11 - 13 mill a year.

Faster pace, but averaged exactly the same number of points ( 98 ) . . . had a worse offensive rating ( ATL - 104.8 . . . UTH - 106.7 ) . . . and won one more game in the East, while the Jazz played in the tougher Western Conference. Entertaining were the Hawks in 2009 - 10, when we were averaging over 101 ppg and beating just about everybody at home ( 34 wins ). Last year's team was up and down like a roller coaster.

If you want Hickson instead of Millsap, I'd have no problem with that. Horford - Jefferson - Hickson . . . no problem with that at all, especially considering that Lou Williams would probably still take most of the shots with that 2nd unit. JJ can rebound Lou's and Jenkins' misses. And he almost always attacks the rim. He looked better than Blake Griffin in this game Portland fans would have a fit if they lost that dude this summer.