TheNorthCydeRises

The team last year was missing Horford for most of the year. And the team last year was a far better defensive team that this year's team. Before Horford went down, we had already beaten Miami and Chicago ( with Rose ). The question about last year is what could we have been, if Horford had come back and got a few weeks of games under his belt before the playoffs? As far as this year's team, replacing Korver with JJ ( and having Horford back healthy ) puts us anywhere from 2nd to 4th in the East. Do we make it out of the 2nd round? If we played Miami . . . no. If we played the Knicks . . it would've been interesting. But that's water under the bridge now. It didn't happen, so we move on.

LOL . . Nate the Great has too much heart to let that team get swept. As for Brooklyn, their frontline, outside of Reggie Evans, got exposed as the soft players they were. Lopez ended up looking like he had a good statline in Game 7, but most Nets fans were heated at him because Noah thoroughly outplayed him. The ironic thing about JJ, is that right before Game 6, he said something to the effect that he's just a "decoy" out on the court, and limited to a spot-up shooter ( because of his injury ). He then goes out and has a good game in Game 6. So when he tried to be that "spot up shooter" in Game 7, it backfired on him. He made a mistake in hanging out by that 3 point line. Even if he couldn't blow by people, he should've looked to get closer shots. . Him shooting wasn't the problem, because his team wasn't scoring. But camping out by that 3 point line was a calculated mistake by him. Can't keep shooting those type of shots, when you're ice cold.

No sir. What's "plain ignorant" is the fact that you won't even admit that people in this fan base did not like JJ. I mean dang, you listed the very reasons why most didn't like him. - vanilla type of play - boring personality - took the biggest contract possible - let "us" down big time Those are the perceptions of those of you who didn't like JJ. But in your eyes, the 6 All-Star appearances mean nothing. The playoff games that Hawks DID win with him on the team, mean nothing. The 5 consecutive playoff appearances ( when we had missed the playoffs 8 straight years . . and only won 13 games the year before he became a Hawk ) mean nothing. The guy ( who if Josh Smith doesn't come back ) that is the #6 scorer in franchise history and the #5 assist man in franchise history, can't even come back to ATL because fans like yourself didn't like him because he wasn't a superstar . . or because he wasn't flashy . . or because he was just to boring of a guy . . or because he couldn't get us past the 2nd round ( like any other star player in the Atlanta Hawk era has ever done that ). No sir, I'm the one who will give credit to a guy who is undoubtedly one of the greatest Atlanta Hawk players of all time, even if he wasn't a superstar by NBA standards. Fans like yourself will sit up and boo that dude,and act like he was Mario West.

Most of them don't care though. He's viewed as a failure in their eyes, instead of a guy who actually DID give us a glimmer of hope. Most of them wouldn't even consider him to be a "great Hawk". That's why I have no problem calling some in the fan base out when it came to JJ. They can pretend that they liked him, but 70% of the fan base didn't. Who disrespects a person that they like?

The problem with keeping Teague, is that if a team really wants him, they can immediately put out an offer sheet to him. And unlike in years past, the Hawks would only have 3 days to decide if they want to match it or not. So they need to have in mind right away if they want to keep Teague. The other thing is that if they really want to completely utilize all of their cap room, they'll have to renounce just about everyone on the roster who doesn't have a contract next year. Guys like Korver, Teague, and Zaza have cap holds totaling over 23 million. Smith's cap hold is over 16 million. Harris' cap hold is almost 13 million. Over 71 million in cap holds total.

Definitely Jerry Sloan. We need somebody here who can not only establish a team identity, we need someone who will give us instant credibility amongst players around the league and with the national media . . and with the Atlanta fan base. Sloan will do just that. Imagine the "Utah Pick and Roll Offense" being ran here, with Horford as his PF. I'd love to see if Sloan could turn Horford into a player somewhere between Karl Malone and Carlos Boozer. And with Sloan as the coach, Ferry will be consulting him to see what types of players he'd want to coach. No "softies". No "head cases". No "mentally weak" players.

Like Ferry . . . Brooklyn still has time to see if the deal actually failed or not. Lopez had his best season ever. Deron was injured the 1st half of the year, but played like an All-Star to end the year JJ, before the foot injury started to limit his production, was making game winners all over the place. So the question with the Nets will be . . is this the best this team can be, or will another year of playing with each other see them be an even better squad next year? Same goes with the Hawks. If the Hawks can use that cap space to construct a much better team that competes at a higher level come playoff time in 2 - 3 years, Ferry will be hailed as a great GM. If the Hawks miss the playoff the next 2 or 3 years, I don't see how anyone can heap a bunch of praise on Ferry, just because he jettisoned a bad contract like JJ's. Like I said, I still don't see why people act like Brooklyn did something so horrible and stupid, when they are the same franchise that won just 12 games in the 2009 - 10 season, and assembled a team that posted the 5th best record in franchise history ( 2nd best since they've been in the NBA ). They ran into a team that was mentally tougher than them, and they lost. We'll see next year if the same thing happens . . or they regress as a team . . or if they get better as a team.

No . . what I'm getting at, is that the Nets had made the decision to spend whatever it took to put a winner out on the floor. They had made the decision earlier in the year to trade for Wallace, so that Deron could at least have someone decent to play with for the rest of 2012. Most everyone thought that after Anthony Davis, the draft would be lackluster at best. No one saw Damian Lilliard as being some supestar in the draft. Here was his nbadraft.net profile http://www.nbadraft.net/players/damian-lillard So after they traded away the lottery pick, here was their offseason goals: 1) get Dwight Howard 2) re-sign Deron Williams 3) re-sign Brook Lopez, if they couldn't get Dwight 4) go out and find SOMEONE to market to Brooklyn, if the above 3 plans failed When they still hadn't secured Dwight, and Deron was being courted hard by Dallas, they started to explore contingency plans. If Ferry called the Nets, or if the Nets called Ferry first, the fact was that the Nets wanted Joe Johnson. And Deron Williams even said that signing Joe Johnson had a major impact in him re-signing with Brooklyn. Once they obtained JJ and Deron, they re-signed Wallace . . then Lopez. They made the biggest improvement in the league last year, because they went ALL OUT to assemble the best team they possibly could. And part of that plan, was bringing in Joe Johnson. So no matter how much people want to credit or discredit JJ for the improvement the Nets made this year, the fact is that HE was part of that master plan. I still say what the Nets did, is much better than losing Deron, not going after JJ, and maybe only having Lilliard, Lopez, and Wallace in the mix as your best players. If that's the case, that team doesn't make the playoffs. And it would've been the 5th year in a row that they didn't make the playoffs. How can a franchise who is losing, be criticized for going all out to assemble a playoff level team? The fact that they lost only means that they need a little more to become a better playoff team. It doesn't mean that the team is a failure because they spent all of that money.

I wouldn't call it "high character" guys. What the Bulls have is an IDENTITY. And their coach is the one that pushes that identity on a 24 hour basis. The organization brings certain types of players into that mix. Players who don't mind playing tough, and have some mental toughness in them. They're a team that's not going to mix "soft" with "tough". Guys like Hinrich and Robinson may not have the most talent in the world, but they're not going to back down from people. A guy like Marco Bellenelli isn't just going to sit outside and shoot 3s. If he has to, he'll take it hard to the hole. And every guy on that frontline will battle you to the death, if need be. Chicago is a mirror image of what Boston was 4 years ago ( minus that superstar ). It didn't matter who was hurt on that Celtics team, they had some guy who was going to step up and raise his level of play. Chicago has that. We definitely don't. A guy like Ivan could play on the Bulls, because he has that mentally tough mindset that they look for in players. As long as they constantly move the ball, and have people who can occasionally create and make their own shot, the Bulls will always be a tough out in the playoffs. They'll definitely take a game, maybe 2 games, from the Heat. They really need Deng back to guard Lebron though.

Eddie . . . most people did not like Joe Johnson. That's why the dude, despite not being asked to be traded from Atlanta, gets BOOED when he comes back . . . like he was the one that left the Hawks or something. Why would a fan base boo a guy who got traded away, if he didn't force his way out? When Jamal Crawford came back to ATL in a Clippers uniform, there were no boos for Jamal. If/when Marvin comes back in a Utah ( or some other uniform ), there aren't going to be any boos for Marvin. But that crowd had no problem booing JJ twice, when he came back to ATL . . . because they never liked him, despite what little he may have done here. My issue with Ferry is that you don't trade a guy like JJ for scraps. Ferry took a deal, got stared in the face by the Nets, and accepted the bare minimum they could give. Thank God that Houston traded for Harden, and made the playoffs. If not for that, we wouldn't have anything to show from that deal, but a bunch of cap space and some slim hope that CP3 and Howard would want to play here . . even though they've NEVER said anything about playing in ATL. But we'll see if Ferry can pull off a miracle. If he can't, he'll be forced to build the team the hard way. If that's the case, we all may be on the outside looking in, when it comes to the playoffs. People can celebrate Ferry and call him a genius or brilliant, but I reserve the right to be skeptical that he can build that winner he seeks here, until I see the type of moves he'll make this summer.

I was one of one of the biggest detractors for moving Joe . . . for NOTHING. I'm the one that when the deal was being negotiated, wanted at least Gerald Wallace, Marshon Brooks, and a 1st round pick. It was most of YOU guys who were cool with moving JJ for 5 bags of pork rinds and a glass of dirty water. There was no "mounting evidence" that JJ's play was in decline. The only thing that was declining, was his usage. He had one of his most efficient shooting years of his career last year, while making a ton of clutch and game winning shots. What happened last year, was Smith deciding that he wanted to be "the man", so he started taking the most shots . . but deferred to JJ in late game situations. Drew, and to a certain extent, JJ, let him do just that. JJ's overall numbers were down because other players had increased roles on the team. This season, he's played 1/2 of the year with nagging injuries, limiting his effectiveness. but he still came up big time in certain games, including a few games in these playoffs. But he didn't get it done tonight. Foot injury or not, it's no excuse for going 2 - 14 FG, when he's jacking up 9 threes.

It's no excuse for JJ, because while he wasn't playing like an All-Star in the series, he wasn't shooting bad in the series at all, with the exception of his 3 point shot not falling. He was averaging 16.3 ppg on 46% FG . . but only shooting 30% 3FG. He was 4 - 21 from three in the past 4 games, so that was a clear sign that his shot was off. If that was because he was hurting, OK. That means take shots that are closer to the rim, even if you have to work for shots from 16 - 20 feet. Just abandon the 3 ball, because he was not making that shot. But he turns around and jacks up 9 threes, with some of them being missed badly. If the foot injury caused him issues with the lift on his shot, he shouldn't have been taking all of those 3s. He needed to play a smarter game, and he didn't. That's why the injury ( while an excuse ), really can't be one.

Of course you all wanted this. Why are people commenting in this thread, talking about they secretly hoped and knew the nets would fail, if you didn't want it? Seeing the Nets advance to the 2nd round, would be somewhat of a validation that they did the right thing. Seeing the Nets not only get bounced in the 1st round, but also see JJ crash and burn in Game 7, is a scenario that delights people around here. It validates that it was the Hawks who did the right thing, while the Nets have to question how they can improve with their contract situations. Why deny this?

Well he wasn't here this year, and we still flopped . . . at home . . . in the same fashion. So who is/was the blame for that?

I agree. No excuses. JJ should've went to the post or try to draw fouls. Settling for those 3s were the kiss of death tonight. He would've been better off taking fadeaway 18 footers than those 3s.

This is what people wanted to see all the time, even when they were denying it. I knew this from the jump. It's OK though. I just hope they can get it out of their system tonight. I'm more worried about this team, and if we'll ever even get back to playoff level, let alone championship level. The future is very uncertain for us. And I reserve judgement to see if Ferry can build this thing right.

The alternative for Brooklyn was to move to that city with Damian Lilliard and a bunch of scrubs as their best players . . and not make the playoffs. Any team in Brooklyn's situation who had a chance to significantly improve by spending, would've done the same thing they did. Charlotte, Sacramento, Detroit, New Orleans, and Cleveland would've all done the same thing . . . if it meant going from the bottom of the barrel, to the middle of the pack. Brooklyn had the biggest improvement out of anybody in the league this year. They simply aren't mentally tough enough ( despite having the talent ), to overcome a more mentally tough and physical team. If you don't think that teams don't have to spend to win, you better look around and see who is left in the playoffs.

Now everyone here can rest easy. JJ had a horrible game, although he was definitely hurting. Still no excuse for the type of game he had. He relied way too much on the 3 ball, shooting 9 threes on 14 total shots . . and only made 1 of them. He's the new John Starks in NYC. We'll see how much venom the NYC media goes after him with, or will they give him a little leeway because he was hurt. My guess is that Brooklyn will start to turn their back on JJ, until he proves he can be a more consistent player. Ironically though, it was defense and rebounding that ultimately lost the game for the Nets. JJ's shooting definitely didn't help the cause either.

There shouldn't be a "price range" when you have a gazillion dollars under the cap. Nate has always been a potent enough scorer to warrant a 3 - 5 million a year contract. He got paid the vet minimum this year, which is ridiculous. A player like Nate should always go to a team in which he can receive playing time, even if that means not going to a playoff level team. He got buried on the bench in Boston and OKC, which had people forgetting how good that guy can be at times. I remember getting a lot of flack when we signed Jamal Crawford, by me saying that he's just a 6-5 version of Nate Robinson and Salim Stoudamire, because all 3 guys basically were shooting and producing at the same rate. Salim didn't have the ball handling skills to survive in the league, nor the elite athleticism or quickness. Nate has everything that Salim didn't have, plus the competitive fire of a superstar. I''d definitely give Nate a 2 yr - 8 million deal . . then try to trade off Lou Williams for a legit SF who can defend and shoot. Let Nate be our "designated scorer" off the bench. I agree that Nate is a scorer. So you sign Nate, trade Lou, and sign a guy like Jose Calderon to run the team as the starter.

LOL @ the Hawks did him wrong. What? Wrong by benching him when it became obvious that he was a weak link defensively? Or wrong because he can only play every other game? Bye Deshawn. You weren't "horrible" as a Hawk. You did provide some good play from time to time. But it's time for you to move on. Maybe Brooklyn will re-sign you in the offseason.

If he comes back, we can't pay him more than 3 mill a year. He's too one-dimensional for us to be spending serious cash on the dude. We need at the very least a decent 2-way player who can play defense and create his own offense. I'd much rather spend that money on an OJ Mayo, than to spend it on Korver. No more than 3 mill on Korver, if he wants to come back. It'll be interesting to see just how hot the market is for Kyle. I honestly don't think it will be that hot.

Devin was horrible in this series, along with Teague. I'd rather sign Nate Robinson in the offseason, than Devin. At least I know exactly what I'm getting with Nate. You never know with Devin.

* edit on Ivan * He averaged a whopping 7.7 fouls per 36 minutes. I was looking at the fouls he actually averaged during the series. LOL . . that's a Summer League foul rate. Still, I would like to have that guy back on the team.

MAIN PLAYER GRADES Al Horford: B- 16.7 ppg - 8.8 rebs - 3.0 asst - 1.0 stls - 0.8 blks - 1.5 tos . . . . 49% FG - 67% FT Al was basically steady throughout the playoffs, with him having one great game in Game 3. But take away that Game 3 performance, he wasn't no more than your average player in this series. When the Pacers defense really clamped down on him, he found it difficult to not only get his own shot, but to make the shots he normally makes. In the offseason, Horford DESPERATELY needs to develop an offensive "go-to" POST move, to compliment his midrange jumper. And if he gets a chance to play PF at least 70% of the time next season, he must elevate his game to a top 10 PF level. If Al can't improve his level of play on the offensive end, he can't be in future plans for the team as one of the "lead guys". If we add an Al Jefferson to the lineup, maybe it will be of some help to Horford. Josh Smith: C+ 17.0 ppg - 7.5 rebs - 3.5 asst - 1.8 stls - 0.5 blks - 2.7 tos . . . . 43% FG - 53% FT - 25% 3FT For the first 4 games of the series, Josh was solid all around, with Game 4 being his crown jewel. The 29 point - 11 rebound - 16 free throw attempt performance that game was arguably the best playoff game of his career. Then, like the old song from the British R&B group Soul II Soul, Josh came "back to life . . back to reality". Games 5 and 6 saw him put up back to back 14 point, 5 - 16 FG performances that would make it easy for fans to want to part ways from the 9 year member of the Hawks. This series was the ultimate version of "Good Josh - Bad Josh". And we all know what that looks like . . . flashes of great offensive and defensive plays combined with mind boggling low BBIQ decisions. He had a solid "B grade" in those first 4 games, but played like a "D+" the rest of the way. If that was Josh's last game as a Hawk, it was a microcosm of his career. His replacement needs to be a wing player who can score and/or play defense. If Iguodala exercises his Early Termination Option, he has to be considered as an option to replace Smith. Kyle Korver: D+ 10.3 ppg - 3.3 rebs - 0.7 asst - 1.0 tos . . . . 39% FG - 35% 3FG - 92% FT We needed him to show the improved, solid defense that he showed for most of the regular season . . he didn't do it. We needed him to make the shots that saw him being one of the best spot up shooters during the regular season . . we only saw it for one game. He was great in Game 4, knocking down 5 threes and scoring 19 points. In the other 5 games? 12 - 38 FG ( 32% ) . . 7 - 26 3FG ( 27% ) . . 8.4 ppg So he gave us no defense and no shooting for 5 of the 6 games in the series. With no Lou Williams in the lineup, he had a chance to really solidify himself as a guy who can be a valuable shooter on a playoff team. Instead, he pretty much proved that he's a one-dimensional player who can be shut down when he doesn't get very wide open looks, because he can't create and make his own shot. Devin Harris: D+ 11.3 ppg - 2.8 rebs - 3.7 asst - 1.7 stls - 2.0 tos . . . . 37% FG - 20% 3FG - 68% FT When you watched Devin in this series, you kind of see why Utah just gave up on him, from a floor leader standpoint. He doesn't "wow" you with anything he does, other than his ability to quickly push the ball up the floor. He doesn't shoot the ball well. He doesn't finish well. And when he gets to the FT line, he shoots it at a percentage well below what most starting PGs shoot. After his good 17 point - 4 rebound - 4 assist performance in Game 2, Harris' efficiency really fell off the map, even when we managed to win the next 2 games. 10.8 points - 4.0 assists - 30% FG - 16% 3FG over the next 4 games, just wasn't going to cut it at all. He and Teague in the backcourt absolutely killed us as the series came to a close. We needed at least one of those guys to play at a high level on a given night. But they just couldn't do it. Jeff Teague: D 13.3 ppg - 2.8 rebs - 5.0 asst - 1.5 stls - 2.3 tos . . . . 33% FG - 30% 3FG - 82% FT For a guy who has at least been solid in the past two playoff series ( 2011 - Chicago . . 2012 - Boston ), Jeff Teague regressed during this series. Jeff's increased responsibility to run the team seem to overwhelm him at times. Despite having another PG by his side, Teague was highly ineffective for most of the series. After holding his on in the first 2 games, Teague fell COMPLETELY off the map in those next 4 games, averaging 10.8 pts - 4.5 asst on a WOEFUL 26% FG and 17% 3FG. For a guy who is coming up for restricted free agency, this series may have damaged his worth somewhat. More disturbing, is that he got exposed defensively. Teague has a good regular season. And he may be our best and only option at PG for the near future. But we may need to look around for a guy who could possibly run a team better than he can. People may not like Brandon Jennings, but he has to be an option considered to possibly replace Teague. SUPPORTING PLAYER GRADES Johan Petro: B For what we were asking of him, Petro played solid during the time he was in the game. The "big" lineup did work. It limited Hibbert in the beginning of games, and it freed up Horford and Smith to have better matchups on both ends of the floor. Petro even gave us a little offense at times. We definitely need a much better upgrade at the 2nd and 3rd center spots than Petro. But for this series, he did exactly what we asked him to do. Anthony Tolliver: B Once the Hawks committed to the "big" lineup in Game 3, Tolliver became a part of the rotation. He played very well in games 3 and 4, shooting lights out from 3 point range. Just to illustrate how good he was ( or how bad Kyle Korver was ), both of them made 7 threes in this series. But unlike Korver and his 26 three point attempts, Tolliver made his 7 threes in just 11 attempts. If anything, Tolliver proved that he can still be a fringe player who can make spot up jumpers as a big SF or a small PF. Surely the Hawks can find an upgrade over him though, if they want/need that type of player. Ivan Johnson: C+ Ivan had a chance to really showcase himself as a solid backup PF in this series. He didn't quite do that, although he may have established himself as a legit "tough guy" that a team could use on their squad. He did OK, even when he played out of position. But the Pacers got into his head a little, and made him a non-factor in Game 6. And he's still a "hatchet man", averaging almost 4 fouls per 36 minutes. Since "no one" was watching the Hawks - Pacers series, maybe that will enable the Hawks to re-sign Ivan again on the cheap. He's a decent option off the bench as a backup PF that can play 15 - 20 minutes a game. COACH GRADE Larry Drew: C The small lineup that Drew stubbornly stuck to going into Game 2, was an idiotic move. It was obvious after Game 1, and in the previous games during the regular season, that going BIG was the way to compete with the Pacers. So it took us getting beat up in Game 2 for Drew to realize that he had to change his strategy. Considering how bad the guards played in this series, you really can't bash Drew for anything that happened after we went big. Maybe John Jenkins should've gotten a little more chance to play, when the Hawks were struggling to shoot the ball, but other than that, I don't know what all Drew could've done to prevent the last 2 losses. Overall, he did a decent job of coaching during this series. But his time here should end, if Ferry wants this franchise to get to the next level.

I really wanted to the see a Hawks - Knicks 2nd round matchup. But now, I'll have to get my NBA fix via the Memphis Grizzlies. That series vs the Thunder is going to be very interesting, especially with no Westbrook. And if they win that series, Memphis will absolutely go bezerk. I personally want to see a Memphis - Golden St WC Finals. Two totally different styles going at each other. In the East, I'll be watching Mr. Johnson and see if the Nets can advance at at least challenge the Heat. Brooklyn playing at home tomorrow night means nothing. Bulls aren't scared of anybody, anywhere, so the Nets will have to play one of their best defensive games of the season to advance.