TheNorthCydeRises

So in other words, our #1 ranking in ( Money ) will determine our overall future ranking. Because as the money ( cap space ) decreases, the quality of players has to increase dramatically.I see that's an ESPN Insider article. If you don't mind, post the top 10 when they publish it. Thanks

As for you sir, how about creating a video clip with Josh Smith playing CENTER . . because his production when he plays center is actually HIGHER at that position, than it is when he plays PF or C. And that's on offense AND defense. http://www.82games.com/1112/11ATL12.HTM#bypos

My question is .. . why did Ferry horde all of these guards in the first place? If the "plan" all along was to get rid of JJ and Marvin, why not target a SF instead of Lou Williams? Why draft John Jenkins instead of Jeff Taylor? Or is this Ferry simply being "opportunistic" to get rid of those two, no matter who we brought in? It's obvious that you, and some of the other fans ( including myself ), do not like the fact that we have 938,000 guards on this team. So now you're expecting some September trades? All I know is that everybody that people are expecting contributions out of, is not going to be able to play. Or if they do play, it'll be for limited minutes. And we're going to see how long the experiment of playing Devin Harris/Lou Williams at the 2 will last. Or if they don't play the 2 for significant minutes, how they will cut into Teague's playing time at the 1. Ferry says he wants to be "opportunistic" in the way he builds the Hawks. That's fine. I like that approach. But the two trades we've done so far had more to do with teams contacting us and wanting a player that we had, than us approaching a team to get a player that we wanted. Brooklyn wanted JJ and Utah wanted Marvin. So we'll see when Ferry actually trades for a player he wants, how that player fits with the team. As of right now though, Ferry has targeted and acquired 4 players himself - John Jenkins - Mike Scott - Lou Williams - Kyle Korver

He doesn't get part of the blame because he didn't rebound. He gets part of the blame because after having a fabulous 3rd quarter to keep us in that game, he flat out disappeared in the 4th quarter. He didn't score in the quarter and only attempted 3 shots. Someone needed to help Horford out that quarter, because he was the only dude doing anything offensively for the Hawks. But JJ nor Smith didn't do it. But here's Diesel's point though. Garnett in the final 3 quarters of that game: 25 pts ( 9 - 14 FG ) - 13 rebs - 5 blks He destroyed us. And we had no one on the team who could slow him down. Not even the guy who is the "face of the franchise" now.

http://www.rantsports.com/courtcrusades/2012/08/14/nba-rumors-los-angeles-lakers-looking-to-trade-for-josh-smith/mmmm hmmmmNow . . . if Ferry makes THIS DEAL, we'll see how many of your are still on the Ferry bandwagon.God forbid that this goes down ( no matter how good it may be for the team ), because people would have an absolute fit around here.

Exactly. And "heart" has never won a basketball game. Talent and execution wins basketball games.

People keep talking about this contract keeping the Hawks from doing things. That contract did no such thing. Stop blaming the contract for the lack of Hawk progress. The lack of progress falls straight on management.Bottom line is that if you want the Hawks to be a "championship level" team, they need to start doing "championship level" type moves. You don't pay a coach the lowest salary in the league. You don't hire a GM that was a failure in his previous job. You don't be so deathly against going over the Luxury Tax, it prohibits you from bringing in a higher quality player ( or keeping one ).The fact is that people are looking at what JJ will make in the future, but he isn't even making over 20 million yet. Even if he were making 15 million, the Hawks STILL wouldn't be far enough under the cap for them to get a significant player.Just stop blaming the contract for the reason why this team "can't" or "won't" get to the next level. A contract like that does not stop a team SERIOUS about building a contender.Getting rid of the contract is fine. Now . . what can he do ( or will do ) with his contract off the books? Bringing in guys like Kyle Korver and counting on Anthony Morrow to play "winning basketball", are moves that don't impress me one bit. Ferry talks about assembling a team that can move the ball and play defense. But he's brought in guys who may can shoot, but can't play a lick of defense.But hey, we got the "contract" off the books, so people are cool with anything . . whether it be lack of defense . . lack of a go-to scorer . . or even losing itself. The "contract" is gone, so it's OK if we take a step, or two, or three back . . because we HOPE we can get above where we used to be.I think some of you just want people like myself and Diesel to simply "shut up", because the Hawks finally made some changes. I can't speak for Diesel, but the fact that Ferry STILL hasn't adequately addressed the SF issue, while hoarding all of these guards, is a red flag to me. Because if that's the case, it means that Smith will be playing SF this year. And that's a potential recipe for disaster.But no worries. We got "the contract" off the books, so who cares how the Hawks play this year.

Chris Paul is already playing with a star http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMzJBSXfECE If anything, he's in a better position with the Clipper and have them bring in another star, than him going somewhere else and playing with a star. The fact that people better start coming to grips with, is that superstars don't choose ATL to come play for. Neither Smith nor Horford are good enough for a superstar or a ( top 10 player ) to come play with them in ATL. The Hawks are going to have to go after one of those young restricted free agents, and hope they develop into that superstar. Or they need to hope Smith or Horford elevate their game to the next level. Or get an under the radar 1st round pick that blows up into a star early on in his career. JTB . . it's a reason why bad teams stay bad for a long time. And there's a reason why mediocre teams can't make the jump to elite at times. And it has to do with talent, more than anything else. That's why it's important for teams to not fall in love with non-superstar players, and move them around like chess pieces if they have a chance to get a superstar. That same Clippers team moved what was once a one time All-Star center ( Chris Kaman ) . . and their explosive young scorer ( Eric Gordon ), just to get one man . . . Chris Paul. "We decided for a player of Chris' caliber that it was just time to make the move and push all our chips into the center of the table," Clippers vice president of basketball operations Neil Olshey told the team's website. "We're really happy about it. Chris is the kind of player that makes everybody around him better. He's a general. He wins. He's a warrior, and he's going to take this whole organization to the next level." When management gets serious about winning, those are the types of moves that have to be made. They don't fool around. If you're not willing to go ALL-IN, you need to get away from the poker table. And that also means not being deathly afraid of the Luxury Tax. That's why the Hawks have been good, but not great. That's why offering up BOTH Smith and Horford to possibly bring in a superstar talent, should NEVER be off the table. None of those guys are superstars. So both of them are expendable. Teams like the Lakers don't fool around. The Miami Heat didn't fool around. Boston fooled around, but came to their senses before it was too late, and brought in KG and Ray. Cuban didn't fool around before he finally won his title. Then he overthinks, and breaks up a title team in aspirations to get that elusive superstar. Now he might be screwed, because he may lose out on both Dwight and Deron, and might have to max out one of those 2nd tier guys like the Hawks will have to do.

We're not going to have much of a choice, unless you want to tank and try your luck in the lottery. Almost everyone gets overpaid in the NBA, especially when they'll be the best player on a team. What we really need is for Smith or Horford to get to that next level as players. I personally liked what I saw out of Horford in those two playoff games. But that's way too small of a sample size to think he can be the main man. But if he can, that will be huge for the future. But it's going to have to be either Josh or Al, that takes that next step.

Get your facts straight. JJ was not shopped to anyone. Word of that deal came out of nowhere on a Saturday night, and the deal was done by late Monday. Ferry himself said that they weren't actively looking to shop JJ. But when the Nets inquired about him, they started talking to see if a deal could get done. Ferry didn't come to the Hawks, take the job, and say . . . "Hey NBA, do you want Joe Johnson? Come and get him." Heck, the hot rumors at that time were surrounding Al Horford possibly being traded for the #2 pick, and Josh Smith being dealt. As for JJ . . . Jersey basically got tired of dealing with Orlando, and went with Plan B ( Joe Johnson ), to see if that would be enough to entice Williams to re-sign . . . and form potentially the NBA's best backcourt, even if they couldn't cut a deal to also bring in Dwight. And it worked.

And the alternative was/is what? Hope he comes to ATL on his own free will to play with his old high school buddies? Or hope that Chris Paul says . . "you know what? I don't want to play with Blake Griffin in LA. I want to play with Josh and Al in Atlanta"? The fact is that the team who holds the Bird Rights to Dwight Howard, has the inside track to keep him, because that's 20 - 25 million extra he's going to get from us. And if he wants to leave, and he wants that extra money, that team is going to have to give us a significant package to get him ( which would include multiple draft picks and maybe a good player ). That's why he's not leaving the Lakers to go to Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, or wherever. The Magic CHOSE to take that "platter of poop" for Dwight. They could've gotten much better talent in return than what they did. But like the Hawks with JJ, the objective was to shed salary. But unlike the Hawks, their objective was also to get multiple draft picks for Howard. You take this team that we're rolling with this year PG - Teague G - Harris F - Smith PF - Horford C - Zaza 6th - Lou Williams And I'll take this team if Smith + Horford was traded for Howard and Jason Richardson PG - Teague G - Richardson F - Johnson PF - Marvin C - Howard 6th - Zaza And I would bet money that my team not only trumps what the Hawks would do this year, they'd at least give a team like Boston a challenge for one of those top 2 or 3 spots in the East. And if people still wanted to make the Marvin for Harris trade, you do that, and you'd now have your backup PG to run the squad. Just slide Ivan into the starting PF spot. But for the first time since the days of Dikembe, the Hawks would have their legit center . the most dominant center in the league. And a legit 1st or 2nd team All-NBA player . . which is almost a prerequisite for any team wanting to win an NBA Championship. Even the 2003 Pistons had a 2nd team All-NBA player in Ben Wallace. If Howard STILL left, you simply dismantle the team at that point. But the bottom line is that at least we TRIED to make it work with a superstar, instead of holding on to Smith and Horford like they're the Big and Little jokers in a Spades game . . . when in reality, they're the Queen and Jack of Spades. Nice trump cards to have, but you can't automatically count them to get you a ( book or a trick ).

If we stood pat with Joe, it means that we'd have to deal either Horford or Smith to possibly make the team better. I mean, God forbid that we trade Smith + Marvin for a guy like Pau Gasol, who once again proved today that he's an elite PF in basketball, with his damn near triple-double vs Team USA today ( 24 pts - 8 reb - 7 asst ). Or how about the MAJOR power move, and trade Smith + Horford for Dwight and one of their bad contracts ( preferably Richardson ) Those would be unpopular moves with the fan base, but those moves would've made the Hawks a better team. Once again, trading JJ isn't the real problem here. It's what we traded him FOR, that's the problem. It's the fact that he could've been a chip that could've gotten us a better player(s) or better draft picks, that's the problem. A lot of you who are rooting for Anthony Morrow to be a big time contributor on this team, may be sorely disappointed in him come Christmas. But not to worry . . we have a jersey named "cap space" hanging in JJ's old locker. My hope is that Smith or Horford take their game to that next level, and become legit All-Star talents who can not only be a top 7 performer at their position, but possess the ability to win games at the end.

Harden has a chance to be better than JJ. His game is legit. Just because he didn't perform well in the Finals, doesn't mean that the kid is now garbage. Like JJ, he might just flourish as a player if he played out from under Durant and Westbrook's shadow. The fact is that the Hawks are going to have to bring in a Harden-like player with this "cap space". The major superstars are not coming here. So the target will be on the 2nd and 3rd tier type stars. It'll have to be, if the Hawks want to stay competitive.

LOL @ literally impossible to get any more for Joe than we did. That is nonsense. He wasn't even on the trading block, so we don't know what we could've gotten for him. Ferry flat out said that we weren't looking to trade JJ, and that the Nets approached THEM about JJ's availiability. What Hawks fans don't want to admit, is that the Nets "played us". - when we asked for the Nets to include THEIR draft pick in the deal, the Nets said no. - when we asked for MarShon Brooks to be included in the deal, the Nets said no. Once the Nets figured out that we were desperate to get JJ's contract off the books, they basically played hardball with us, and we folded like a cheap tent. Had the rest of the league thought that we'd deal JJ for what we dealt him for, I'd guarantee you that we could've gotten better deals than what we got. Ferry did what he set out to do . . . give the Hawks "cap flexibility". What he hasn't done, is give any star free agent a reason to sign in Atlanta in 2013. Because if the situation were reversed, and the Nets wanted and got Josh Smith, Deron Williams would've been a Dallas Maverick right now. Why? Because Josh Smith, as good as he is, isn't enticing any free agent to come play with him. So it was/is Ferry's job to put this team in the best possible scenario going into the future. When he let a 6 time All-Star go for some smashed up M&Ms, he didn't do his job.

There is a guy in Dallas who would've definitely considered taking a guy like JJ off of our hands, especially after he lost the opportunity to get D-Will and Dwight Howard. Another guy in Cleveland would've done the same thing. A desperate Charlotte franchise would've probably done it too. As well as a few other Western Conference teams. You would've been surprised what kind of offers the Hawks may have gotten, if the franchise simply announced that JJ was on the trading block. Remember, it was the Nets who contacted the Hawks about the possibility of getting JJ, not the other way around. Most NBA teams ( and certainly Hawk fans ) never even considered the possibility that JJ was on the block. Guys with "bad contracts" get traded in this league all the time, because there will always be someone around that either think they need him, or they simply want to get rid of other players.

I know. Because there's always 2014, and the blockbuster free agent class that will be available ( or possibly available ) - Kobe - Dirk - Paul Pierce - Pau Gasol - Luou Deng - Danny Granger - Andrew Bogut - Marcin Gortat Plus Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Melo, Amare, Rudy Gay and Zach Randolp could all opt out early. Maybe we can convince a 35 year old Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki to spend their last years in ATL.

2013 is definitely the year to make that move. Because if we don't make it then, who are we going to get? Or a better question . . what player do you think the Hawks can get, in the years after 2013, if the Hawks can't get Dwight or Bynum or CP3?

The JJ trade ( if it doesn't produce an equal or greater star with a free agent signing ), will go down in history as a mere salary dump that brought nothing back to ATL. You don't wait 5 years to see if the trade was a good one or not. That trade needs to result in something that can at least be a key piece of a "new core". I'm not upset that he was traded. I'm upset at what he was traded for.

If you're James Harden next year, whom do you sign with . . . Atlanta or Dallas? And the Thunder will probably match anything that isn't a MAX type of deal, so he won't be low-balled either. Atlanta WILL have to send a MAX offer to Harden, to even be in consideration to get him.

And it's funny now how people are relying on us trading the garbage that we picked up. Like people want most of those players. I guess we'll end up trading Devin Harris for Tayshawn Prince around January. And people will rejoice over that. When has a contract like JJ's not been moveable, especially as the dollars increased?

My thing about trading JJ, is that we got no tangible asset for him. Even that draft pick is so far off in the future, that you can't even take it serious yet.The real question should be . . . why were people cool with trading JJ away for nothing but garbage that we're not going to use after this year? Could've traded him away, shed salary in 2013, and still gotten an asset or two for him.When the 2013 - 14 season comes around, and Al Horford and Josh Smith are still our best players, with most of the major free agents going elsewhere, what then?

It would've been a move that could duplicate the team we had back in 2009 - 10, the 53 win team that could beat anybody in the league . . except Orlando with Dwight Howard. Harris > Jamal Crawford . . . because Harris does more attacking the rim and is a far better passer and a legit PG. Whether you start Harris at the 2, or bring him off the bench to play the 6th man, the Hawks would have a quality guard to play with JJ, Smith, or Horford at all times. We'd still need a SF to back up JJ. But now, we'd be talking about a specialist type SF that could defend, instead of a starter quality SF. PG - Teague / Harris G - Jenkins / Harris F - Johnson PF - Smith / Ivan C - Horford / Zaza Add possibly another combo G and a defensive SF, and that's a team that could replicate what we did 2 years ago.

Two facts when you compare Josh Smith and Rudy Gay.#1 . . . he can provide the same type of high flying highlights that Josh Smith can #2 . . . Josh Smith's offensive game will never give him the ability to do thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8yTXOi9LHkIt's a reason why Rudy Gay not only got the contract he did from Memphis a few years ago, but also was part of the Team USA system. It's because the dude is a damn good player. He's not a superstar, but he would balance this team out. And he's a much better option at SF than Josh Smith will ever be.And to be honest, since Josh Smith or any other Hawk doesn't put butts in the seats, Rudy Gay's more athletic offensive style of play may be more "sellable" to an ATL casual fan base.

When you look at who will be Restricted and Unrestricted free agents, these are the Hawks choices Top 10 Unrestricted free agents in 2013 - Dwight Howard - Chris Paul - Andrew Bynum - Al Jefferson - Josh Smith - Paul Milsap - Manu Ginobli - Kevin Martin - David West - Stephen Jackson Top 10 Restricted Free Agents in 2013 - Blake Griffin ( re-signed with the Clippers for the Max ) - James Harden - Stephen Curry - Tyreke Evans - Ty Lawson - Brandon Jennings - Serge Ibaka - Jrue Holliday - DeMar Derozen - Jeff Teague There's your list folks. And there's a good bet that we're almost certainly going to have to overpay to keep Smith in the mix ( similar to what happened with Joe Johnson ). And if we want a PG, re-signing Teague may be the cheapest option to go with. So there you go folks. With Dwight Howard virtually out of play, and Chris Paul all but certain to not come here, re-signing Josh Smith and Jeff Teague are probably the targets. If they aren't, you're talking about overpaying to bring someone else in here . . . or going all the way cheap and only filling the roster with mid to low level players. Yea cap space.

SMH . .. so much for this thread.