TheNorthCydeRises

What "people"? You mean the NBA coaches who voted him in 5 times, and the Commissioners office who granted him a spot because of injury? Those "people"?

I did a breakdown of this game when someone on the AJC Hawks board posted this same vid and made the same claim that you made. Josh Smith did 75% of his damage in that game, when he played PF, not SF. He actually took over the game in the 4th quarter, with his offensive rebounding and put backs being what stretched that Hawk lead out.

Now could that team win a title? Probably not. Could they get to the EC Finals? Yeah, they probably could. But even THAT team is stockpiled with the "right" type of talent that you would find in the lottery and late in the 1st round. To build the "Detroit Model", you not only have to have a GM that knows what the hell he's doing, you also need a good to great coach who could maximize the talent on that roster. Drew couldn't coach that team.

Even with the Detroit model, they had a superstar. And it wasn't Chauncey or Rip.The true superstar on that team was Ben Wallace. A defensive superstar who was the true pulse of that team. The center of the tough, rugged style of basketball that made them champions.The "Detroit Model" would mean that the Hawks would want to get Josh Smith, Andre Iguodala, and Roy Hibbert to be on the same team, while at the same time having a backcourt who could provide consistent points while playing defense. And then have at least 2 guys off the bench that could contribute at high enough levels to not cause any dropoff in talent or intensity on the defensive end.PG - Ty LawsonG - James HardenF - Andre IguodalaPF - Josh SmithC - Roy HibbertKey bench playersG - Darren CollisonG - John JenkinsF - Kawhi LenoardF - Kenneth FariedC - Bismack BiyomboThat would essentially be the "Detroit Model". A team that has enough interior and perimeter defense to slow teams down significantly, while also being good enough offensively to provide timely offense.

The issue with building around Horford and Smith, is that you STILL have the team "out of balance" offensively, because both of them are jumpshooting PF's. If the Hawks can get a big and effective center in the middle, they could get away with playing Smith at SF, and simply let him split minutes between SF and PF. If not, we're still rolling with a Horford - Smith frontcourt, with neither guy truly willing to mix it up on the inside the way they should be doing.The only way to beat Miami ( in the near future ) is to attack them at their "underbelly" ( which is on the interior ) and play great team defense to corral Lebron and Wade. If we can't do that, we'll always end our season in the 1st or 2nd round when we go up against them. Or we won't even get to the playoffs at all to play them.Building around Horford and Smith means- finding a legit center that doesn't mind banging AND defending on the inside ( amazing that we're still talking about this, years after trading Mutumbo )- finding a point guard who can maximize the abilities of BOTH Horford and Smith as offensive players ( amazing that we're still talking about this, years after trading Mookie )

LOL. People were mad at Woody for shortening his rotation and trying to win games to keep that 8th spot.

I've always been in the Anti-tank movement. Even back in 2007, when people actually didn't want a below. 500 Hawks team to make the playoffs because they were certain that Boston would destroy us, thus, making the playoffs being a waste of time.And that's why I was so against giving away JJ for scraps. Gotta get SOME talent for him, whether it be Marshon Brooks or even Gerald Wallace ( who would look real good on the Hawks now, seeing that we don't have a legit SF. )

Right. Which is why I would go ahead and start Jenkins and let him get the vast majority of his minutes with the starters. It's much easier to have Harris play a 6th man role, in which he'd come in at the 1st and 3rd quarters for Jenkins, and have him play the 2 for a short stretch. But when it's time for Teague to get his rest, Harris simply slides over to the 1 and runs the team. When it comes down to crunch time in the 4th quarter, you simply play whatever guard combination fits best of what the game situation is. It would be easy to get all 3 of those guys the type of minutes they'd need to effect the game. The different styles is exactly why the team would fit and be better. It's not more long range shooting the Hawks need. It's more efficient shooting and scoring that they need. Horford - 55.3% FG Gasol - 50% FG Teague - 47.6% FG Johnson - 45.4% FG Harris - 44.5% FG Jenkins shot 51% FG and 44% 3FG during summer league, which probably means that in catch and shoot and screen situations, he'd probably still be able to shoot at least 45% FG and close to 40% 3FG. Hawks could run pick and roll or pick and pop with Teague/Harris and Horford/Gasol. 2 good 3 point shooters in JJ and Jenkins are on the wings or in the corner. And the other frontline player who wasn't involved in the Pick n Roll would be available to receive a pass 8 - 12 feet from the basket. The team would be almost perflectly offensively balanced, and a much better halfcourt team. Saying that JJ doesn't run the floor is just flat out wrong. He's the one guy most likely to toss an alley-oop to Smith in transition. Instead, this lineup would have the fast PG having the ball in transition ( wow . . what a concept ). Horford and JJ would get out and run with the PG. Both Gasol and Horford are exellent rebounders ( both offensively and defensively ). Both are good passers out of the high and low post. Gasol especially is an effective post up player. To say that this team would be a "literal mess" would be flat out wrong. That team would be much better offensively. The only question about that squad, is if they could still be a top 10 defensive team. My guess is that they would be somewhere between 10 - 14th in defensive rating, while being a top 5 offensively rated team. We'll see what our "small ball" combination does this year in both categories.

My goal is to always make at least one game a month, plus the MLK Day game ( which is against Minnesota this year )vs Miami ( Nov 9th )vs LA Clippers ( Thanksgiving weekend )vs Golden St ( Dec 15th )vs Minnesota ( MLK Day - Jan 21st ) . . . might check out the Spurs on the 19th that Saturday nightvs Sacramento ( Feb 22nd )vs Brooklyn ( Mar 9th )vs Sixers ( Apr 5th )To me, it doesn't matter who they play. I just go to watch the Hawks play.

Just wanted to clarify this: Hawks went 40 - 26 this season ( .606 winning percentage ) In an 82 game season, that equals about 50 wins, not 60. But let's go a little further. The Hawks were 7 - 3 before Horford went down in that Indiana game. That means without Al, we were actually 33 - 23 ( .589 winning percentage ). So without Al, that really projected us to be around 48 wins ( in an 82 game season ) If the Hawks had continued to win 70% of their games with Horford on the squad, that projects us to 46 wins ( 57 wins in an 82 game season ) . . which would've placed us in a TIE with Miami for the Division title, but we'd lose the tie-breaker . . and would've been the #3 seed. Don't believe what people tell you, and say that the Hawks were better off without Horford. We were significantly better with Horford in the mix in those first 10 games. And he is an important player on this team. Hopefully, he'll emerge as the true leader of the Hawks this season.

The one thing that team does is give us a legit shot to make a deep run in the playoffs for one year, which I believe fans would take in a heartbeat over "cap space" and "long term cap flexibility". Let me ask you this. Which would you rather have? - Cap flexibility, but not have a team strong enough to compete with the big boys? . . or - A real good team that could possibly get us to the EC Finals and beyond for one year? Let's fill out the rest of that team: Johnson ( G/F )- 19.75 million Gasol ( F/C ) - 19.0 million Horford ( F/C ) - 12 million Harris ( G ) - 8.5 million Zaza ( G ) -5.23 million Teague ( G ) - 2.4 John Jenkins ( G ) - 1.2 million ( shooter ) Ivan Johnson ( F ) - 0.96 million ( rebounder-defender . . can run the floor ) Damien Wilkins ( G/F ) - 0.85 million ( perimeter defender ) Jordan Williams ( C ) - 0.76 million ( big body ) Brad Wanamaker ( G ) - 0.47 ( emergency PG ) Keith Benson ( C ) - 0.47 million ( high post shooter . . rebounder ) Mike Scott ( F ) - 0.47 million ( rebounder . . project player ) Total - 5.18 million + 66.88 million = 72.1 million ( 1.8 million over the L. Tax ) Depth chart PG - Teague G - Jenkins F - Johnson PF - Horford C - Gasol 6th ( PG ) - Harris ( will play both guard spots ) 7th ( C ) - Zaza 8th ( G/F ) - Wilkins ( will play more SF, spelling JJ ) 9th ( F ) - Ivan The one thing that this team gives us, is offensive balance in the half court. With Gasol on the team, and with Jenkins on the wing, you cannot double Joe Johnson, or that squad will make you PAY. Both Gasol and Horford are excellent mid-range shooters. Jenkins can knock down the outside open shot. Teague will be able to run the team. And JJ will still be the versatile All-Star player that he's always been. People can throw around the "soft" label all they want about Gasol and Horford . . lol, like Josh Smith is some enforcer tough guy or something. But that is a very skilled frontline that would be highly efficient offensively, and solid defensively. Two All-Star level frontline guys. We'd need major contribution out of Jenkins ( if Drew doesn't do anything to hamper his development ). Throw him into the fire right away, and let's see what kind of player he is. No bench? I wouldn't say that. Harris - Zaza - Wilkins - Ivan is a decent bench. But I wouldn't be trying to play more than 9 guys on this team on a nightly basis. Minutes and rotation PG - Teague ( 34 ) - Harris ( 14 ) G - Jenkins ( 26 ) - Harris ( 14 ) - Johnson ( 8 ) F - Johnson ( 28 ) - Wilkins ( 14 ) - Ivan ( 6 ) PF - Horford ( 26 ) - Gasol ( 14 ) - Ivan ( 8 ) C - Gasol ( 20 ) - Zaza ( 20 ) - Horford ( 8 ) Johnson - 36 Horford - 34 Gasol - 34 Teague - 34 Harris - 28 Jenkins - 26 Zaza - 20 Wilkins - 14 Ivan - 14 The only question with this lineup, is can I get SF minutes out of Ivan Johnson? If I can't, I'm playing Damien at both the 2 and the 3. That forces JJ to exclusively play SF PG - Teague ( 34 ) - Harris ( 14 ) G - Jenkins ( 28 ) - Harris ( 14 ) - Wilkins ( 6 ) F - Johnson ( 36 ) - Wilkins ( 12 ) PF - Horford ( 26 ) - Gasol ( 14 ) - Ivan ( 8 ) C - Gasol ( 20 ) - Zaza ( 20 ) - Horford ( 8 ) Johnson - 36 Horford - 34 Gasol - 34 Teague - 34 Jenkins - 28 Harris - 28 Zaza - 20 Wilkins - 18 Ivan - 8 That is hands down a better squad than what we're going to put out this season. So after the season, who is left under contract? Johnson - 21.47 million Gasol - 19.29 million Horford - 12 million Jenkins - 1.26 million Total - 54.02 amongst 4 players At this point, many decisions have to be made. - If that team went deep into the playoffs, do you keep our new core ( JJ - Horford - Gasol ) around for one more year? If they did . . YES - Do you match any offer for Jeff Teague? . . He's at least getting an MLE level contract in my opinion after a year on that squad. I think he's worth that. If a team is offering 7 mill or more a year, you'd have to really evaluate that. - Do you bring back Zaza? . . Jury is definitely out on that. Zaza isn't as vital to the Hawks if you have Horford and Gasol in the mix. - If the team doesn't advance past Round 2, what do yo do with Gasol? . . you use that HUGE expiring contract, and get 2 or 3 decent players from a team looking to trim payroll. If Brooklyn wanted to give me Gerald Wallace + Kris Humphries for Gasol . . I'd take it. - If the team doesn't advance past Round 2, what do you do with JJ? . . this is when you consider any and all offers. I'd still look to get a decent developmental young player and a draft pick for JJ though. I'd be against trading him for scraps, unless it was our last option. Bottom line is that the "Diesel Option" is nowhere near as bad as you think. It does put us in Luxury Tax land, but it gives us a better squad to throw at teams and make a run to go deep into the playoffs. You'll disagree though . . lol. It's OK.

4 year decision? I disagree. If Joe Johnson isn't replaced by someone equal to or over what he brought to the table, and the Hawks aren't at least making a little noise in the playoffs, that deal will be questioned for years. I do think most fans will and should give the Hawks a pass, for whatever happens next season. The media ( local and national ) will never let us forget it in upcoming seasons, if Brooklyn happens to make deep playoff runs while the Hawks are at home. Ferry must start turning this around, and quickly. And the results have to show out on the floor, not just in the ledger. The whole purpose of doing this, is to give us a little flexibility financially, and to possibly re-construct the team for the better. But we can't still be on the outside of the playoffs 2 - 3 years from now. Fans aren't going to go for that. You keep talking about the cost of Johnson in the latter years, like we wouldn't have been able to get out from under his contract the same way we did this summer. As his cost to the team increased, so would his trade value. Rashard Lewis has been moved 3 times in 2 years, simply because teams use his contract to get out from under longer contracts. This will not change under this new CBA. You're going to have teams willing to get out from under less performing contracts, and will take on a larger, but shorter contract.

You sure? I mean, correct me, and this, if I/they are wrong. And be mindful of the cap holds as well. http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/2012/hawks.jsp And that team that you keep calling a "1st round and out team" had made it to the 2nd round for 3 consecutive years and actually made a little progress in the 2nd round last year. Horford was gone for most of the year, only coming back for the final few games of the playoffs. We didn't have Zaza for the playoffs. If healthy, we're at least a 2nd round team, because we're not playing Boston in Round 1 . . we're playing Orlando, because we'd probably be the 3rd seed. That was a 2nd round team. They just weren't healthy enough to get out the 1st round. And it didn't help that we were playing Boston. Was there an impact player available had JJ been making less money? Because the consensus around here was that if JJ were making a "mere 12 million a year", people wouldn't have that much of a problem with him on the team. But the Hawks would still be above the Salary Cap and couldn't add any "significant" player other than with the MLE or Bi-Annual exceptions. And they could do that anyway. To say that JJ isn't the guy to build around is one thing. To say that JJ's contract prevented the Hawks from improving the team, is false. Funny thing is . . the guy that has been keeping the team "out of balance" is still on the team. And we're about to give him a JJ-like 2nd contract after this season is over. But some around here ( including yourself ) will be cool with that. I thought the team needed to trade one or more of the core for a better fitting player. Like I said, you ( and others ) act like Joe Johnson is the root of all of the problems in ATL. That contract wasn't preventing anything happening in ATL, because ownership wasn't looking to do anything significant, than tear the team down. This is the same team that traded two 1st round draft picks for Kirk Hinrick . . but JJ was the problem? This is the same team signed two old men that put them into the Luxury Tax . . but JJ is the problem? This is the same team that traded a 6 time All-Star for scraps . . but JJ was the problem? No other team in the league would've done what the Hawks did with JJ, while that team was still at playoff level. They would've gotten SOMETHING for the dude, other than expiring contracts. But it is what it is. You need to calm down and keep this civil. If you can't debate this without the name-calling and cursing, then you don't need to be debating this. The Hawks were spending ( or investing ) in not only JJ, but in "the core" as a whole. If they aren't good enough to get it done, you trade them for other pieces that can possibly get it done. But teams worrying about putting their toes or feet into the Luxury Tax aren't normally going to be the ones that will contend for anything. Those teams spent money on those players because they were very good players. Seeing that they couldn't obtain a top 5 player, they decided to invest in a group of "stars", and hope they would be good enough to get it done. That's the exact same thing the Hawks, and every other team that doesn't have a top 5 player in the league, has done. But I guess in your mind that there is no middle area when you're trying to build a winner. People that subscribe to the "if you're not great, you might as well be sorry" attitude, probably doesn't know one Golden State Warrior or Charlotte Bobcat fan. Fan bases that would KILL just to be decent for 2 or 3 years, forget good or great. But Hawk fans act like we're in the worst possible place to be. Oh no sir . . it gets worse . . MUCH WORSE. Funny thing is, if we "invest" in Josh Smith at season's end, we'd be doing the exact same thing as those mid 2000s Portland and Washington teams. Investing in good but not great players. But it's OK, because it's Josh Smith we're investing in, and not Joe Johnson. Yep . . because Brooklyn didn't jump at the chance to add him to their team. They said . . "nope . .he costs too much. We don't want a 6-time All-Star like that on our team". Brookly fans aren't shedding one tear for the players they've lost, mainly because they know this is what they can get on occasion from the new addition. http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NABojcdl8M4 People think Ferry is a genius by trading JJ for expiring contracts. We'll see if that is the case. All I know is if the Hawks DON'T land a major free agent next summer, and the Nets and JJ go on to do big things in the coming years, that trade will be known as the worst trade in ATL franchise history . . with only the Nique for Manning trade being more blasphemous. Those tax teams contstantly mold and remake their team. You're criticizing teams who actually try to make themselves better on a yearly basis? Those teams didn't make those moves because they didn't want to pay tax. Those teams made those moves to make themselves better. Lamar was inititally traded in a deal to bring Chris Paul to LA. Then he got so hurt, that he ASKED to be traded. So the Lakers traded his crybaby butt for a trade exception. An exception that they were trying to use to still work the Chris Paul deal, before the Clippers got him Dallas didn't let those guys go because of the Luxury Tax. They let those guys go because they wanted to make a play for one of the big name free agents. And it didn't help that they made a few decisions that were horrible ( Brendan Haywood ), which cost them Tyson Chandler. Brooklyn has EASILY been the most active team this offseason - traded their garbage for JJ - re-signed Gerald Wallace - re-signed Deron Williams ( killing the hopes of Dallas ) - did everything in their power to deal for Dwight - then after they got tired on waiting on Dwight, they moved on with their life and filled out the rest of their team LOL @ criticizing Brooklyn and what they're doing, when the biggest move the Hawks made this season, was trading their All-Star for the cap space to bring in a guy that doesn't even want to play in the city, and bringing in 2 guys that play the same position, which will threaten the psyche of the young PG we already have here. Chicago refused to overpay for their bench, and they'll be proven to be right. Their "core" is intact. All they do is add the correct pieces to their bench, which they've done the past 3 years. Chicago switching around their bench is nothing new. No way are they're coveting Omer Asik like we do Zaza. They know a role playing center like that is expendible.

Or if they do let him go, they're going to be looking to get something significant for him.

Bingo. The Thunder have the power of "Bird Rights" to keep Harden in the mix for the next 5 years, if need be. Or Harden can just play for the qualifying offer in 2013 - 14, and become an unrestricted free agent. In either case, the likelihood of us getting Harden might be slimmer than us getting Howard. If given the choice, it's a no brainer. Howard > Harden Harden can ball though, despite his performance in the Finals.

Or like some said . . . make the Marvin trade FIRST. Then add an MLE player

Hawks going into the 2012 - 13 season . . before the JJ and Marvin tradesJoe Johnson - 19.75 millJosh Smith - 13.2 millAl Horford - 12 millOur Big 3 = 44.95 millMarvin Williams - 8.29 millZaza Pachulia - 5.25 millJeff Teague - 2.43 millThese 3 = 15.97Total for these 6 players = 60.92 millLet's say both Rookies make the team and the Hawks re-sign IvanJohn Jenkins - 1.2 millIvan Johnson - 962 thousandMike Scott - 500 thousandThese 3 players = 2.66 millNine players signed = 60.92 + 2.66 = 63.58 millLuxury Tax is at 70.3 million . . which gives us 6.72 mill to sign 4 playersUse the MLE on a player = 5 millSign Keith Benson = roughly 500 thousandSign 2 Vet Minimum guys @ 854 thousand a piece = 1.8 millTotal for these 4 players = 7.3 millHawks are roughly 600 thousand over the Luxury Tax.Legit teams vying to be a major contender do not let 600 thousand stand in their way from adding pieces. And if money IS a concern, they simply trade away the talent that they do have, for equal or better talent that may fit better with the team.

No they didn't. They paid the luxury tax because Al Horford got hurt, and they felt the need to bring in an extra center. Remember who our last 2 signings were during the season? - Erick Dampier - Jerry Stackhouse Both guys were simply cheerleaders on the bench for the most part. Stackhouse was brought in because of his "locker room leadership", despite contributing little or nothing out on the court. That's almost 2 million in salary that the ASG brought in . . for nothing. As much as I don't like Jamal Crawford's game, I'd much rather had him here, than Jerry Stackhouse and Erick Dampier. Just keep it real with all of this. These were the Hawks last year that were under contract before free agency last summer Joe Johnson - 18.04 mill Al Horford - 12.49 mill Josh Smith - 12.4 mill Our Big 3 = 42.93 mill Kirk Hinrich - 8 mill Marvin Williams - 7.5 mill Zaza Pachulia - 4.75 mill Jeff Teague - 1.58 mill These 4 players = 21.83 mill Those 7 players = 64.76 mill Luxury tax last year roughly at 70.3 million. Hawks have 5.54 mill to spend on 6 players before they hit the luxury tax. Now build your team. - Sign Jamal ( one year at 5 mill ) - Sign 4 more "bargain basement vet minimum players" at 854 thousand a piece = 3.42 mill ( T-Mac, Pargo, Green, Collins ) - Sign Ivan ( 474 thousand ) So those 6 players = 8.89 mill 64.76 mill + 8.89 mill = 73.65 mill ( roughly 3.35 mill over the luxury tax ) If the ASG chose to do so, they could've functioned over the luxury tax for ONE YEAR, to see if the team that pushed the Bulls to 6 games in the 2nd round of 2011, could go a little further. OR Instead of paying Crawford 5 mill, they could've paid someone else a 5 mill ( MLE type contract ), and brought them in. Heck, they could've used the Bi-Annual exception and brought in a 2 million dollar player, and only been barely over the tax. Or They could've signed Keith Benson and Donald Sloan last year, and saved a million dollars, instead of signing Jason Collins and Jeremy Pargo. You act like the Hawks were just so hamstrung, that we couldn't do anything. We could've done whatever we wanted with the MLE. We could've traded a player or two. The ASG simply chose not to do so, because they didn't want to pay the Tax. And when they did decide to pay the tax by signing Dampier and Stackhouse, it was out of stupidity. So the alternative is to not only trade away that "disappointment" ( despite he and Teague being the only one to produce at a high level on occasion in the 2011 playoffs ), but also to trade him away for scraps that may see you take a step back. So to treat a bad deep cut on your leg, you cut your entire leg off instead of stitching it up. OK. What was the payroll of the Miami Heat this year? The Dallas Mavericks last year? The LA Lakers the two years before that? The Boston Celtics before that? This is professional sports man. Good organizations pay to bring in good players. Last I checked, Milwaukee wasn't paying the Luxury Tax last year. Nor was Portland, after they amnestied Brandon Roy and got rid of an injured Greg Oden. Nor was Washington, despite them having the worst contract in the league on their team in Rashard Lewis. The fact is that Joe Johnson's contract didn't prevent the ASG from doing anything - it didn't prevent them from trading one or more of the core ( including himself ) for a better or better fitting player(s) - it didn't prevent them from using the MLE to bring in a player - it didn't prevent them from using the Bi-Annual exception to bring in a player. Other teams who are SERIOUS about competing against the best, do just that. They pay to get who they want. Teams that worry more about paying the Tax and getting the free handout from the league, instead of putting the best possible product out on the court, don't do these things. If that is the perception, I have no problem with that. But look what the team did. They didn't trade him for an upgrade in player. They traded him for 3 maggots and 2 dead flies, in hopes that they can land a "butterfly" next summer. A "butterfly" that has NEVER said that he wanted to play in Atlanta, despite his "best friend" being here. Tax teams are not limited in doing anything. The most active teams are usually the tax teams, because they're willing too trade young pieces to bring in established vets. They're the ones that are usually willing too spend the MLE on a player. They're the ones that are willing to do bold moves, ( like trading their scraps for Joe Johnson ), to see if that player can help the team get to the next level. It's the "tax teams" that are after Dwight Howard the hardest. ( LA Lakers, Brooklyn, etc ), while bad teams with "cap space" have no shot at him because he doesn't want to go there. I'm not arguing that the Hawks shouldn't have been "blown up a bit" by trading away JJ or any other "core" player. What I'm saying is that JJ's contract ( a contract that hadn't even reached 20 million yet ), didn't prevent the ASG from doing anything. And those are facts.

Look at what you just wrote. That has nothing to do with JJs contract. This has everything to do with how the ASG operates. The teams who are serious about going deep into the playoffs are not hamstrung by the luxury tax, especially if we're talking about a few million dollars. This is professional sports. The teams that "pay the cost to be the boss" are the teams most likely to be contenders. Everybody cant get lucky and catch lightening in a bottle with a bunch of young guys like OKC did. If Brooklyn surpasses us this year, you'll know the reason why. They were willimg to bring in high quality guys and were not worried about the cost.

Who did JJs contract keep us from getting?Did it prevent us from keeping Jamal Crawford? No.Would it have prevented us from signing Lou Williams this summer? No.So what "other player(s} did JJs contract prevent us from getting?

LOL . . people can't see how Josh is "disrespectful" at times? People act like there isn't any basis to this line of reasoning. - Who did Woody have numerous altercations with? With the most serious being this one http://dimemag.com/2...h-mike-woodson/ - What PG did Josh have a verbal disagreement with ON THE COURT in that dude's 1st game as a Hawk, because he wouldn't pass Josh the ball out top, and wanted Josh to go to the post? ( see if some of you know the answer to that ) - Who did Josh get into it with last season, simply because the new "tough guy" on the team told him to quit crying to the refs? ( and then the coach suspends the "tough guy" . . . lol ) - Who has led the Hawks in technical fouls the past 7 years? ( technicals that are mainly the result of him constantly crying to the refs ) - Who lashed out at the All-Star selection process after he was passed over? ( A process in which coaches picked those reserves ) - Who blows off our starting PG when he has his hands out to bring the ball up the court, simply because HE wants to be the PG of the team? It's just amazing to me that everybody else can get ripped for every little thing they do. But when Smith repeatedly does things to the detriment of the team ( and himself ), the excuse is . . "oh he just wants to win so bad". Dennis Rodman wanted to win so bad too. That doesn't mean that he wasn't disrespectful as hell at times. The fact is that whatever reputation Josh Smith has around the league, was molded by HIS actions. And no other player on this team has acted like that over the years. I already know what one of the major storylines of this team is going to be next season. Josh Smith will start the season out being "the man" on offense. But at some point in the season, it will become evident that the guy that we should be going to more on offense, is Al Horford. That's when one or two things will happen 1) Josh will accept that, and still try to be one of the best 5 tool players in the NBA or 2) Josh will not accept that, and he and Horford will clash over who really has control of the team . . and the team will suffer because of that.

My bad . . I was looking at Shaq's Per 36 numbers. Funny thing is . . if you DID look at their Per 36 that year, here is the comparison Points Shaq - 23.5 Garnett - 20.2 Rebounds Garnett - 11.8 Shaq - 10.8 Assists Garnett - 3.7 Shaq - 2.3 Blocks Shaq - 2.1 ( I said that Shaq had 2.1 stls in the previous post. It was blocks, not steals ) Garnett - 1.3 FG% Shaq - .600 Garnett - .526 PER Garnett - 26.8 Shaq - 24.4 WS/48 Garnett - .242 Shaq - .164 I won't deny that Garnett had the better year. But you kind of made it seem like that Shaq didn't have a season worthy of some MVP votes. That dude was vitally important to the Heat that year and played at a high level when he was healthy. They win 60 games if Shaq plays around 72 games. With Wade at his side, he could play "The Thing" while Wade played "Flash".

Basketball-reference has JJ playing a total of 47 playoff games, while my count had him at 45 playoff games. So my calculations are slightly off, but still very close to what these numbers show. JJ only averaged 16.6 shots a game during the playoffs with the Hawks while scoring 18 points. His inability to get to the FT line kills him during playoff time. Most of that had to do with his aggressiveness. Some of that had to do with the coaches not calling more post ups for him for him to possibly draw more fouls. So if he wasn't going to get to the FT line more, he had to get up more shots, with the frontline being instructed to get more offensive rebounds. One of the things that can be coached, is "how" to draw more fouls. I wonder if JJ ever received that type of coaching from Woody or Drew? That's why I really didn't have a problem with the game JJ had in Game 3. He took a whopping 28 shots ( the most he's ever taken in a playoff game ), only made 11 of them, and scored 29 points. But he was aggressive enough throughout the entire game to keep him engaged, which enabled him to make those shots at the end of regulation to send the game into OT. Had Drew gave Teague a little more looks, instead of relying on an obviously injured T-Mac in the 2nd half, we might have pulled out that game. And what happens the next game? JJ goes 4 - 8 FG for 9 points, with the Hawks getting blow out early. He was 3 - 4 FG in the 1st half of that game for 6 points, but the Hawks were down by 23 at halftime. While the problem in that game was a defensive one, ( and a player rotation problem ), it didn't help that the offensive star of the team only took 4 shots before the half. That was my major complaint with the dude at times . . . his aggressiveness. Sometimes, your star players have to do that, with everybody else simply playing their role offensively and everyone playing solid defense.

Shaq's numbers in that season 23.5 ppg 10.8 rebs 2.3 asst 2.1 stls 60% FG ( led the league ) 47% FT Only played in 59 games that year ( which probably had a lot to do with the MVP voting ) Miami finished with a 52 - 30 record that year Miami was 42 - 17 when Shaq played Miami was 10 - 13 when he didn't play That's pretty substantial evidence that if he wasn't the best player in the league, that he should've at least got some MVP votes, seeing how important he was to the success of the Heat that year. Wade deserved the accolades he got that year though. LOL . . that also illustrates that even in a year in which Wade played like a superstar, his team was woefully inadequate without Shaq. In other words, even Wade needed help that year.

JJ underperformed in the playoffs. Really can't deny that. Too many times he was way too passive and should've been trying to assert his will on people offensively. A lot of times in the playoffs, you pretty much have to take a shot as soon as you're open, because defenses are much tougher during that time. JJ simply didn't do that most nights in the postseason. He played "team ball" even when the team needed to get up 20+ shots offensively. When JJ scored 20+ points in a playoff game, the Hawks were . . . 13 - 6 ( .684 ) When JJ took 20+ shots in a playoff game, the Hawks were . . . 6 - 3 ( .667 ) The flip side to that is this: When JJ scored less than 20 points in a playoff game, the Hawks were . . . 7 - 19 ( .269 ) When JJ took less than 20 shots in a playoff game, the Hawks were . . . 13 - 24 ( .351 ) The numbers don't lie. He simply didn't it done more times than not. And a lot of that can be attributed to him simply not being aggressive enough early in playoff games. I don't know if he was coached to try to get everybody else involved to begin games before he looked for his own offense, or he had that mindset on his own. All I know that it was never a good sign to see the Hawks down 7+ points in the 1st quarter, and JJ had only attempted 2 shots. As the most versatile scorer on the team, he was the one the Hawks needed to get going first, not everybody else. And the way he held the ball at times didn't help him at all during playoff time either. Also, he had no one on the team that could help him get those 20 points easily, so he either needed to take and make more open shots as soon as they were available. Even when the shot didn't fall, he needed to keep shooting, seeing that he was one of the only guys on the team who could score in bunches. He had to be in attack mode at all times. It just didn't help him at all that he never played with a great "set-up" man to make his life a little easier. Josh Smith probably set him up more than anybody, and he's our PF. But we needed Josh Smith more in the paint, so that he can grab more offensive rebounds. Honestly, he had "too many hats" while here in ATL. The guy should've simply been looked at to score the basketball and defend his position, while dishing out "timely assists". Instead, he had to score the basketball AND set people up. And this is why the guy will probably make Brooklyn look like geniuses for picking him up. He doesn't have to be the primary ball handler nor the primary faciliatator anymore. All he has to do is score the basketball either in catch and shoot situations or in isolation, defend his position, and dish out timely assists to people. Avery Johnson likes isolation basketball, so JJ will still get his fill of that. But Avery will also have that guy set up more in the post, so that he can use his size to his advantage. Like people say with Smith if he left, JJ will finally get some "real coaching". Bottom line is this: Woody basically used JJ like he was a combination of Lebron and Kobe, without putting him in spots to make his life better offensively. He didn't have the athleticism those two had, so that didn't work, especially during playoff time. Drew basically used JJ like he was a combination of Paul Pierce and Richard Hamilton, basically reducing his shots for the so-called "good of the team", but exclusively going to him at the end of games via ISO. Both philosophies didn't maximize the skills that dude brought to the table. It would've helped him to have another high quality guard play alongside him. He has that now in Brooklyn.